Got a crazy forwarded political email from your family? Post them here.

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > Debate & Discussion > Got a crazy forwarded political email from your family? Post them here.

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Spite: Jul 27, 2001; Small chance of that...

Aeka 2.0 posted:

Now I'm getting the whole "torture works read 'My Battle of Algiers'"
Correct me if I'm wrong, but that book proves nothing and is a total hack job.

Yes, because Algeria turned out so well for the French. :rolleyes:

Also, I believe that book has no sources and most of what he describes is secondhand at best, though I haven't read it.
You may want to ask why France abandoned Algeria in 62 if their tactics worked so well.

# ? Jan 20, 2011 08:36

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# ? May 15, 2024 02:15

Nenonen: Oct 22, 2009; Mulla on aina kolkyt donaa taskussa

Spite posted:

Yes, because Algeria turned out so well for the French.
Also, I believe that book has no sources and most of what he describes is secondhand at best, though I haven't read it.
You may want to ask why France abandoned Algeria in 62 if their tactics worked so well.

Because "HEH, FRENCH, AMIRITE? :smug:

"

Also, the French army was stabbed in the back by drat communist hippies and bleeding heart lieberals who resented the said tactics (and the whole war, regardless of tactics).

# ? Jan 20, 2011 10:43

Dr. Arbitrary: Mar 15, 2006; Bleak Gremlin

More crazy from one of my old Navy friends:

All I can think of is this:
http://www.hulu.com/watch/99944/saturday-night-live-snl-digital-short-on-the-ground

I don't need your handouts. I'm an ADULT!

# ? Jan 20, 2011 19:53

Mooseontheloose: May 13, 2003

Dr. Arbitrary posted:

More crazy from one of my old Navy friends:

All I can think of is this:
http://www.hulu.com/watch/99944/saturday-night-live-snl-digital-short-on-the-ground

I don't need your handouts. I'm an ADULT!

Is he calling for the assassination of a public official?

# ? Jan 20, 2011 21:19

Taerkar: Dec 7, 2002; kind of into it, really

No, of course not. He's just saying that that official should be voted out of office. Against the Wall is a surveying term after all.

# ? Jan 20, 2011 21:39

the: Jul 18, 2004; by Cowcaster

There's something to be said about the fact that the only people who complain about assistance for the poor are never poor themselves.

# ? Jan 20, 2011 21:41

Kieselguhr Kid: May 16, 2010; WHY USE ONE WORD WHEN SIX FUCKING PARAGRAPHS WILL DO?

(If this post doesn't passive-aggressively lash out at one of the women in Auspol please send the police to do a welfare check.)

How the gently caress can a right-winger unironically use 'against the wall?'

# ? Jan 20, 2011 22:28

JerkyBunion: Jun 22, 2002

Dr. Arbitrary posted:

More crazy from one of my old Navy friends:

All I can think of is this:
http://www.hulu.com/watch/99944/saturday-night-live-snl-digital-short-on-the-ground

I don't need your handouts. I'm an ADULT!

You should stop blacking out his name.

# ? Jan 20, 2011 22:57

Enjoy: Apr 18, 2009

Kieselguhr Kid posted:

How the gently caress can a right-winger unironically use 'against the wall?'

I thought the phrase referred to execution by firing squad? So he is obviously a proponent of the provisional wing of the Tea Party, the Freedom Corps (or "freikorps")

# ? Jan 20, 2011 23:41

Dameius: Apr 3, 2006

Enjoy posted:

I thought the phrase referred to execution by firing squad? So he is obviously a proponent of the provisional wing of the Tea Party, the Freedom Corps (or "freikorps")

He is just proposing a creative second amendment interpretation to the problem in hopes of furthering the discourse and any insinuation that he'd ever actively promote or wish violence on another person should immediately be called out for the liberal blood libel that it is, duh.

# ? Jan 21, 2011 04:32

Saint Sputnik: Apr 1, 2007; Tyrannosaurs in P-51 Volkswagens!

Mom sent me another forward. I don't even get her motivation for sending this one, since we had a discussion about tax cuts, war spending etc. over the holidays and her views were surprisingly not lock-and-step conservative. I guess it just fits into her "OMG the economy is gonna collapse good thing I bought chickens and turned my kids' old playhouse into a coop so I'll have eggs!" view.

quote:

Hi. This short video gives you a visual image of our nation's economy -- it's definitely important enough to watch and pass along. Pretty fascinating, that's for sure. For us visual learners ... yikes!
http://www.wimp.com/budgetcuts/

It's just some video using a table full of pennies to illustrate $trillions - $millions.

# ? Jan 24, 2011 23:20

Habibi: Dec 8, 2004; We have the capability to make San Jose's first Cup Champion.

The Sharks could be that Champion.

Saint Sputnik posted:

It's just some video using a table full of pennies to illustrate $trillions - $millions.

Is it like that awesome video showing relative sizes of celestial objects?

Mooseontheloose posted:

Is he calling for the assassination of a public official?

Nah. Presumably, "when the time comes" they will no longer be a public official.

# ? Jan 24, 2011 23:25

XyloJW: Jul 23, 2007

Saint Sputnik posted:

Mom sent me another forward. I don't even get her motivation for sending this one, since we had a discussion about tax cuts, war spending etc. over the holidays and her views were surprisingly not lock-and-step conservative. I guess it just fits into her "OMG the economy is gonna collapse good thing I bought chickens and turned my kids' old playhouse into a coop so I'll have eggs!" view.

It's just some video using a table full of pennies to illustrate $trillions - $millions.

That's actually a rather astute video. People do tend to go "Big number! Bigger number!!!" without understanding that millions, billions, and trillions are how governments work.

There's nothing really conservative about that video, unless you count "you're full of poo poo, Obama."

Edit: Not that this is the "Post a conservative forwarded political email" thread. There's nothing really crazy there either.

# ? Jan 24, 2011 23:41

DaFuente: Nov 23, 2003; puppeh

I don't even know what this is, but my dad sent it to me:

quote:

What if I told you that the Chairman and CEO of IBM, Samuel J. Palmisano, approached President Obama and members of his administration before the healthcare bill debates with a plan that would reduce healthcare expenditures by $900 billion? Given the Obama Administration�s adamancy that the United States of America simply had to make healthcare (read: health insurance) affordable for even the most dedicated welfare recipient, one would think he would have leaned forward in his chair, cupped his ear and said, �Tell me more!�

And what if I told you that the cost to the federal government for this program was nothing, zip, nada, zilch?

And, what if I told you that, in the end and after two meetings, President Obama and his team, instead of embracing a program that was proven to save money and one that was projected to save almost one trillion dollars � a private sector program costing the taxpayers nothing, zip, nada, zilch � said, �Thanks but no thanks� and then embarked on passing one of the most despised pieces of legislation in US history?

Well, it�s all true.

Samuel J. Palmisano, the Chairman of the Board and CEO for IBM, said in a recent Wall Street Journalinterview that he offered to provide the Obama Administration with a program that would curb healthcare claims fraud and abuse by almost one trillion dollars but the Obama White House turned the offer down.

Mr. Palmisano is quoted as saying during a taping (click here to see ) of The Wall Street Journal's Viewpoints program on September 14, 2010:

"We could have improved the quality and reduced the cost of the healthcare system by $900 billion...I said we would do it for free to prove that it works. They turned us down."

A second meeting between Mr. Palmisano and the Obama Administration took place two weeks later, with no change in the Obama Administration's stance. A call placed to IBM on October 8, 2010, by FOX News confirmed, via a spokesperson, that Mr. Palmisano stands by his statement.

Speaking with FOX News' Stuart Varney, Mort Zuckerman, Editor-in-Chief of US News & World Report, said,

"It's a little bit puzzling because I think there is a huge amount of both fraud and inefficiency that American business is a lot more comfortable with and more effective in trying to reduce. And this is certainly true because the IBM people have studied this very carefully. And when Palmisano went to the White House and made that proposal, it was based upon a lot of work and it was not accepted. And it's really puzzling...These are very, very responsible people. They don't have a political ax to grind. They are very familiar with the subject; they understand exactly what the issues are."

Given the fact that Mr. Obama�s own Centers for Medicare & Medicaid Services actuary debunked the claim that health insurance costs would diminish over the next decade and given that the budget deficits for 2010 and 2011 are in the $1.2 trillion�$1.4 trillion ballpark, the question begs to be asked: Why would Mr. Obama balk at a sure-thing savings of almost $1 trillion?

Cost projections prepared by economists at the Centers for Medicare & Medicaid Services (CMS), revealed the nation's healthcare spending, as a share of the economy, will be 0.3 percentage points higher in 2019 than estimated before the law was passed. That CMS report, published September 9, 2010, in the journal Health Affairs, also revealed healthcare spending will grow by an average of 6.3 percent each year over the next decade, whereas pre-reform projections pegged annual growth at 6.1 percent.

CMS actuaries also say that Medicare cuts mandated by the law are unrealistic and unsustainable. An April 22, 2010, CMS report about the financial and coverage effects of selected provisions of the new law estimates that about 15 percent of hospitals and other healthcare providers could lose money treating Medicare beneficiaries as a result of the proposed cuts.

And the Congressional Budget Office is projecting that the deficit for the 2010 budget year, which ended Sept. 30, will total $1.29 trillion. The Obama administration has projected that the deficit for the 2011 budget year, which began on Oct. 1, will climb to $1.4 trillion and that over the next decade, it will total $8.47 trillion.

So, again, I ask you, with the main issue being the economy, including the audacious spending habits of elected officials in Washington DC, why would Mr. Obama and his team balk at facilitating not only the saving of almost $1 trillion in healthcare expenditures, but the opportunity to affect an issue victory in the 2010 midterm election cycle?

Mr. Zuckerman concluded,

"When you are in a situation where this country is facing a huge deficit and where anybody who knows anything at all about the healthcare system knows how much waste, fraud and abuse is involved in that system...not to take this offer up, frankly, does not make sense."

Mr. Zuckerman is correct, but only to a point. It doesn�t make sense if Mr. Obama is trying to reduce waste and fraud, and make health insurance affordable for all Americans. It does make sense if those were never the goals in the first place.

As I wrote in an article titled, Cloward, Piven & Obamacare,

�...the goal of the Progressives is to crash the system; to overwhelm the system to such an extent that it fails. It is at this moment of failure that Progressives believe they can enter the situation as the �knight in shining armor.� It is at this particular moment of vulnerability that Progressives believe the American public will acquiesce to the false choice of �something is better than nothing�; to a government-run universal healthcare plan to rescue the devastated American healthcare system, a system Progressives themselves threw into chaos, courtesy of their ridiculous health insurance reform law.

�As an aside, keeping this plan in mind, it makes perfect sense that Progressives and Liberal Democrats wouldn�t waste their time reading the massive health insurance reform bill. They never intended for it to be around long enough for it to matter.�

It is one thing to be � as a good many elected officials in Washington DC are � arrogant, self-absorbed spendthrifts, so detached from the actualities of what Americans require and want from their government. It is quite another to willfully abuse the system � and the American people � in an attempt to bring about and ideological �change� � a �fundamental transformation� � of the very system of government that has made the United States the most prosperous nation in the history of the Western Civilization and the last best hope for freedom and liberty for all in the world.

In Mr. Obama�s shunning of a private sector program that would have saved our country almost $1 trillion in healthcare expenditures, presented to him as he declared a �crisis in healthcare,� he proves two things beyond any doubt: that he is anti-Capitalist and anti-private sector in nature and that he can no longer be trusted to tell the truth in both his political declarations or espoused goals.

Here's the link that is referred to in the article:
http://video.foxnews.com/v/4366002/did-white-house-snub-fraud-fighter/

Help me figure out what the gently caress?

# ? Jan 26, 2011 04:11

Nucleic Acids: Apr 10, 2007; Can't post for 22 hours!

DaFuente posted:

I don't even know what this is, but my dad sent it to me:

Here's the link that is referred to in the article:
http://video.foxnews.com/v/4366002/did-white-house-snub-fraud-fighter/

Help me figure out what the gently caress?

There's going to be a hell of a lot more to this than what Fox is saying. It's basically one side of the story, and I doubt that the White House would have been as... spitefully obstinate as this claims they were.

And what is this about the costs actually increasing? I thought groups like the CBO estimated they would be reduced, even if only slightly.

Nucleic Acids fucked around with this message at 05:14 on Jan 26, 2011

# ? Jan 26, 2011 04:40

ThePeteEffect: Jun 12, 2007; I'm just crackers about cheese!; Fun Shoe

DaFuente posted:

I don't even know what this is, but my dad sent it to me:

Here's the link that is referred to in the article:
http://video.foxnews.com/v/4366002/did-white-house-snub-fraud-fighter/

Help me figure out what the gently caress?

Some searching yields some editorials on Palmisano's healthcare ideas, outside of the copy of that forward.

http://wistechnology.com/articles/7861/
http://www.ibm.com/smarterplanet/us/en/healthcare_solutions/article/smarter_healthcare_system.html
http://www.politico.com/news/stories/1010/43188.html

Here's the interview mentioned in the article: http://online.wsj.com/ad/article/viewpoints-palmisano.html (starts around 9:00)

Fraud is mentioned rarely in any of those sources. He pulls out a $200b mark out of thin air without even a passing reference at a source. Of course, the forward reads more like "drat [poor] people gaming the system!" It's often fraud/abuse of the system, and rarely things like medicine inflation that gets brought up when discussing healthcare costs.

# ? Jan 26, 2011 05:39

lordofokra: Aug 6, 2005; approach light speed and break apart

I think my girlfriend's father (avid Fox News viewer, National Review reader) just trolled the hell out of me.

His views in no particular order:
Iraq / Afghanistan wars were justified because they (the countries that harbored the terrorists) attacked us.

It is the United States responsibility to take action on countries that pose a threat to any other country (his example was Iran threatening Israel). His argument was that you should be a good Samaritan if you see a crime happening on the street.

He would gladly have the government listen/read every call/text/email of his and the American population if it meant safety from terrorists.
-I added on to his above argument and asked if he would allow a police officer to search his car every single time he was pulled over, he said "I have nothing to hide, so yes".

The United States government should not do anything to prevent increased outsourcing of jobs because if we do that foreign companies will replace domestic companies anyway. He said this happened when we became protectionists about manufacturing.

Pharmaceutical companies would much rather sell a curing drug for a disease than to sell a persistent treatment drug.

I know this isn't an email but I am just so :wtf:

about this conversation that I wanted to see if I was in the wrong about any of this

# ? Jan 26, 2011 05:42

crime fighting hog: Jun 29, 2006; I only pray, Heaven knows when to lift you out

lordofokra posted:

I think my girlfriend's father (avid Fox News viewer, National Review reader) just trolled the hell out of me.

His views in no particular order:
Iraq / Afghanistan wars were justified because they (the countries that harbored the terrorists) attacked us.

It is the United States responsibility to take action on countries that pose a threat to any other country (his example was Iran threatening Israel). His argument was that you should be a good Samaritan if you see a crime happening on the street.

He would gladly have the government listen/read every call/text/email of his and the American population if it meant safety from terrorists.
-I added on to his above argument and asked if he would allow a police officer to search his car every single time he was pulled over, he said "I have nothing to hide, so yes".

The United States government should not do anything to prevent increased outsourcing of jobs because if we do that foreign companies will replace domestic companies anyway. He said this happened when we became protectionists about manufacturing.

Pharmaceutical companies would much rather sell a curing drug for a disease than to sell a persistent treatment drug.

I know this isn't an email but I am just so about this conversation that I wanted to see if I was in the wrong about any of this

How much do you like your girlfriend?

# ? Jan 26, 2011 16:21

berzerker: Aug 18, 2004; "If I could not go to heaven but with a party, I would not go there at all."

lordofokra posted:

I think my girlfriend's father (avid Fox News viewer, National Review reader) just trolled the hell out of me.

His views in no particular order:
Iraq / Afghanistan wars were justified because they (the countries that harbored the terrorists) attacked us.

It is the United States responsibility to take action on countries that pose a threat to any other country (his example was Iran threatening Israel). His argument was that you should be a good Samaritan if you see a crime happening on the street.

He would gladly have the government listen/read every call/text/email of his and the American population if it meant safety from terrorists.
-I added on to his above argument and asked if he would allow a police officer to search his car every single time he was pulled over, he said "I have nothing to hide, so yes".

The United States government should not do anything to prevent increased outsourcing of jobs because if we do that foreign companies will replace domestic companies anyway. He said this happened when we became protectionists about manufacturing.

Pharmaceutical companies would much rather sell a curing drug for a disease than to sell a persistent treatment drug.

I know this isn't an email but I am just so about this conversation that I wanted to see if I was in the wrong about any of this

Other than the Afghanistan/Iraq and privacy issues those beliefs aren't that far out there. This isn't the place to get into a debate about any of them but maybe you should just toughen your skin to people believing different things than you do. Would you consider it a sign of hive-mindedness if after your conversation he went to Fox News forums to get confirmation of his existing beliefs and expressions of sympathy from people he assumes agree with him? Because that's what this post reads like.

# ? Jan 26, 2011 17:02

lordofokra: Aug 6, 2005; approach light speed and break apart

crime fighting hog posted:

How much do you like your girlfriend?

She isn't big on politics but she rarely takes the conservative position any major issue. Her dad hates it.

berzerker posted:

Other than the Afghanistan/Iraq and privacy issues those beliefs aren't that far out there. This isn't the place to get into a debate about any of them but maybe you should just toughen your skin to people believing different things than you do. Would you consider it a sign of hive-mindedness if after your conversation he went to Fox News forums to get confirmation of his existing beliefs and expressions of sympathy from people he assumes agree with him? Because that's what this post reads like.

It was more of a frustrated rant than anything. I never assumed everyone on here shared my beliefs which is why I asked if I was in the wrong. I enjoy reading the comments on Fox News forums, and if I could somehow see that he ranted about it there it would only further prove what demographic he feels his views best match. Which would make me feel great.

# ? Jan 26, 2011 20:45

The_Rob: Feb 1, 2007; Blah blah blah blah!!

So my friends girlfriend started praising Zeitgeist. Having seen Zeitgeist I started talking about how it's a lot of bullshit, which doesn't back up any of it's facts. Her friends begin jumping all over me telling me to watch Zeitgeist Addendum. As I am watching it. It is again is bullshit not backed up, and libertarian paranoid fantasy. How can people honestly tolerate this poo poo.

The_Rob fucked around with this message at 03:28 on Feb 2, 2011

# ? Feb 2, 2011 03:24

karthun: Nov 16, 2006; I forgot to post my food for USPOL Thanksgiving but that's okay too!

The_Rob posted:

So my friends girlfriend started praising Zeitgeist. Having seen Zeitgeist I started talking about how it's a lot of bullshit, which doesn't back up any of it's facts. Her friends begin jumping all over me telling me to watch Zeitgeist Addendum. As I am watching it. It is again is bullshit not backed up, and libertarian paranoid fantasy. How can people honestly tolerate this poo poo.

I have a very good friend who is tied up into the "Vaccines cause autism and aids and cancer and everything bad in the world and the CIA caused aids with their polio vaccines and evil doctors and their evil vaccines are evil." We just don't talk about these issues.

# ? Feb 2, 2011 04:15

RagnarokAngel: Oct 5, 2006; Black Magic Extraordinaire

The_Rob posted:

So my friends girlfriend started praising Zeitgeist. Having seen Zeitgeist I started talking about how it's a lot of bullshit, which doesn't back up any of it's facts. Her friends begin jumping all over me telling me to watch Zeitgeist Addendum. As I am watching it. It is again is bullshit not backed up, and libertarian paranoid fantasy. How can people honestly tolerate this poo poo.

My favorite is still that Ra and Jesus are the same figure because Sun and Son are homonyms. That doesn't work in at least 2 languages those religions would be relevant.

# ? Feb 2, 2011 06:19

The_Rob: Feb 1, 2007; Blah blah blah blah!!

I just don't understand how people are convinced by Zeitgeist. At least Loose Change pretends to have citations, and evidence to their claims. Zeitgeist just names bad things for an hour and expects you to believe everything. Even though they don't back poo poo up.

# ? Feb 2, 2011 07:52

Dr Aldous Huxtable: Oct 6, 2008; by angerbot

RagnarokAngel posted:

My favorite is still that Ra and Jesus are the same figure because Sun and Son are homonyms. That doesn't work in at least 2 languages those religions would be relevant.

Yeah that's completely ridiculous reasoning.

Everybody knows that Ra and Jesus are the same figure because the latter's death and resurrection parallel the Sun's daily cycle of rebirth. It has nothing to do with a silly linguistic coincidence.

# ? Feb 2, 2011 08:17

MrNemo: Aug 26, 2010; "I just love beeting off"

lordofokra posted:

His views in no particular order:
Iraq / Afghanistan wars were justified because they (the countries that harbored the terrorists) attacked us.

It is the United States responsibility to take action on countries that pose a threat to any other country (his example was Iran threatening Israel). His argument was that you should be a good Samaritan if you see a crime happening on the street.

He would gladly have the government listen/read every call/text/email of his and the American population if it meant safety from terrorists.
-I added on to his above argument and asked if he would allow a police officer to search his car every single time he was pulled over, he said "I have nothing to hide, so yes".

The United States government should not do anything to prevent increased outsourcing of jobs because if we do that foreign companies will replace domestic companies anyway. He said this happened when we became protectionists about manufacturing.

Pharmaceutical companies would much rather sell a curing drug for a disease than to sell a persistent treatment drug.

I'd say that isn't ridiculously out there, most of those are views you can disagree with but understand why people think it. The last one is pretty stupid though, pharmaceutical companies have a choice of making a one off drug that will cure disease X and so produce a one-time sale or producing a treatment drug that will counter the symptoms of disease X and produce a 10-50 year consistent revenue source. The cost of the cure would have to be really high for that to make financial sense unless he believes that there are companies around nowadays that aren't driven by stock market concerns.

# ? Feb 2, 2011 13:20

Habibi: Dec 8, 2004; We have the capability to make San Jose's first Cup Champion.

The Sharks could be that Champion.

The_Rob posted:

I just don't understand how people are convinced by Zeitgeist. At least Loose Change pretends to have citations, and evidence to their claims. Zeitgeist just names bad things for an hour and expects you to believe everything. Even though they don't back poo poo up.

Talk fast enough and sprinkle enough things that sound like they might be true among the all of the bullshit, and people will believe you. I have two cousins (the two are brothers) who are both very bright guys, who've fallen head over heels for Zeitgeist. Now, one is an extremely left-wing hippy who, despite being smart, surprises me not the least in taking Zeitgeist for granted. The other, though, is a very rational person with very moderate political views, and yet recently posted a FB status about the latest (3rd?) one and how everyone should watch it. I commented just urging everyone to really research those "facts" that appealed to them. But it just shocks me that the guy is so into it. On the other hand, his girlfriend is a total astrology nut and constantly refers to it as "science," to the point that another cousin, who holds a PhD, goes halfway into apoplexy whenever she opens her mouth about it.

# ? Feb 2, 2011 20:18

OrangeKing: Dec 5, 2002; They do play in October!

Habibi posted:

Talk fast enough and sprinkle enough things that sound like they might be true among the all of the bullshit, and people will believe you. I have two cousins (the two are brothers) who are both very bright guys, who've fallen head over heels for Zeitgeist. Now, one is an extremely left-wing hippy who, despite being smart, surprises me not the least in taking Zeitgeist for granted. The other, though, is a very rational person with very moderate political views, and yet recently posted a FB status about the latest (3rd?) one and how everyone should watch it. I commented just urging everyone to really research those "facts" that appealed to them. But it just shocks me that the guy is so into it. On the other hand, his girlfriend is a total astrology nut and constantly refers to it as "science," to the point that another cousin, who holds a PhD, goes halfway into apoplexy whenever she opens her mouth about it.

A client of mine recently posted on FB about going to see the 3rd Zeitgeist movie. It was really hard not to start talking about it with them...but I like their money.

# ? Feb 2, 2011 20:21

RagnarokAngel: Oct 5, 2006; Black Magic Extraordinaire

The_Rob posted:

I just don't understand how people are convinced by Zeitgeist. At least Loose Change pretends to have citations, and evidence to their claims. Zeitgeist just names bad things for an hour and expects you to believe everything. Even though they don't back poo poo up.

I think it's mostly that people like the idea of becoming aware of some greater conspiracy that others aren't aware of. So they become wrapped up in it and become more willing to follow the narrator from point to point, most people start buying into 9/11, Pearl Harbor, moon landing and JFK assassination theories without being given a source, they're just given a premise that "sounds" logical at first glance (e.g. "Dont you find it odd we supposedly got to the moon on computers less powerful than your calculator?" or "Isnt it odd that Lee Harvey Oswald was such a good shot?") and then are roped in as more "evidence" is thrown at them.

RagnarokAngel fucked around with this message at 21:20 on Feb 2, 2011

# ? Feb 2, 2011 21:17

crime fighting hog: Jun 29, 2006; I only pray, Heaven knows when to lift you out

RagnarokAngel posted:

"Isnt it odd that Lee Harvey Oswald was such a good shot?") and then are roped in as more "evidence" is thrown at them.

Wow, really? Guy was trained in the marines and people find it funny that he was able to shoot someone?

# ? Feb 2, 2011 22:28

LogisticEarth: Mar 28, 2004; Someone once told me, "Time is a flat circle".

The_Rob posted:

So my friends girlfriend started praising Zeitgeist. Having seen Zeitgeist I started talking about how it's a lot of bullshit, which doesn't back up any of it's facts. Her friends begin jumping all over me telling me to watch Zeitgeist Addendum. As I am watching it. It is again is bullshit not backed up, and libertarian paranoid fantasy. How can people honestly tolerate this poo poo.

The Zietgiest Movement (yes they're a MOVEMENT now) is more like nutty neo-Marxism than libertarianism as most people mean it here (right-libertarianism/anarcho-capitalism). They've got this wacko utopian plan called The Venus Project where we're all going to live in fully automated cities that are centrally planned, where money doesn't exist and everyone has 100% leisure time. No don't ask them how they first build these things, how anything is allocated (outside of "SCIENCE WILL DO IT!"), or what happens to the people who don't want to give up thier property...

And yeah, Zietgiest and Addendum are full of conspiracy theory and half truths.

LogisticEarth fucked around with this message at 22:42 on Feb 2, 2011

# ? Feb 2, 2011 22:39

goldsmith: Apr 29, 2009

Zeitgeist, Fresco, the Venus Project, etc. have nothing to do with neo-Marxism.

# ? Feb 2, 2011 22:46

LogisticEarth: Mar 28, 2004; Someone once told me, "Time is a flat circle".

goldsmith posted:

Zeitgeist, Fresco, the Venus Project, etc. have nothing to do with neo-Marxism.

It's not directly related but it has many of the same problems with socialism/communism. Economic calculation, how to manage any kind of transition to the "more desirable" economic system, polylogism between various social classes, etc. Money and private property is abolished, production is communially owned, robots just basically replace the proletariat labor, and computers take over planning responsibilities, and everyone lives in happy-land.

# ? Feb 2, 2011 22:55

Typhoon Jim: Sep 20, 2004; space moo

ThePeteEffect posted:

Some searching yields some editorials on Palmisano's healthcare ideas, outside of the copy of that forward.

http://wistechnology.com/articles/7861/
http://www.ibm.com/smarterplanet/us/en/healthcare_solutions/article/smarter_healthcare_system.html
http://www.politico.com/news/stories/1010/43188.html

Here's the interview mentioned in the article: http://online.wsj.com/ad/article/viewpoints-palmisano.html (starts around 9:00)

Fraud is mentioned rarely in any of those sources. He pulls out a $200b mark out of thin air without even a passing reference at a source. Of course, the forward reads more like "drat [poor] people gaming the system!" It's often fraud/abuse of the system, and rarely things like medicine inflation that gets brought up when discussing healthcare costs.

The critical elements that seem left out here are, first, that's an estimate (correction: it's a ten year period in that article.) and second, really? IBM's gonna extract $200-$900b worth of value for free? They aren't even going to, say, (as an example of what might be) propose that every healthcare provider subscribe to an IBM-run healthcare management service forever? Without very specific details as to what IBM's plan is (which are, of course, secret, I'd imagine) there is no way to evaluate the fitness of this decision, which likely didn't even happen, given the source.

Also, it's very likely that a lot of these reforms are indeed happening already (remember Obama's mentions of an electronic health recordkeeping system a couple years back?)

Typhoon Jim fucked around with this message at 23:19 on Feb 2, 2011

# ? Feb 2, 2011 23:08

goldsmith: Apr 29, 2009

LogisticEarth posted:

It's not directly related but it has many of the same problems with socialism/communism. Economic calculation, how to manage any kind of transition to the "more desirable" economic system, polylogism between various social classes, etc. Money and private property is abolished, production is communially owned, robots just basically replace the proletariat labor, and computers take over planning responsibilities, and everyone lives in happy-land.

Communism may be a description of a post-scarcity society that is anti-capitalist by definition, but that is absolutely the only parallel I can see between it and Zeitgeist Futurism (And those aspects are certainly essential to a number of other systems as well.)

# ? Feb 2, 2011 23:21

Blarghalt: May 19, 2010

crime fighting hog posted:

Wow, really? Guy was trained in the marines and people find it funny that he was able to shoot someone?

Not only that, but he scored high enough on his rifle tests to get the sharpshooter qualification. It probably would have been more odd if Oswald has missed.

# ? Feb 2, 2011 23:54

JerkyBunion: Jun 22, 2002

crime fighting hog posted:

Wow, really? Guy was trained in the marines and people find it funny that he was able to shoot someone?

So you admit he's a government trained assassin!

# ? Feb 3, 2011 00:31

RagnarokAngel: Oct 5, 2006; Black Magic Extraordinaire

crime fighting hog posted:

Wow, really? Guy was trained in the marines and people find it funny that he was able to shoot someone?

I've met people who think he was untrained or simply don't know. I'm not sure why, probably an untruth used to build up the conspiracy, makes it more interesting.

# ? Feb 3, 2011 04:19

Grem: Mar 29, 2004; It's how her species communicates

Blarghalt posted:

Not only that, but he scored high enough on his rifle tests to get the sharpshooter qualification. It probably would have been more odd if Oswald has missed.

Sharpshooters ain't poo poo. Crossed rifles for life, yo.

# ? Feb 3, 2011 06:57

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# ? May 15, 2024 02:15

Pththya-lyi: Nov 8, 2009; THUNDERDOME LOSER 2020

Don't call it "trickle-down economics," that's mean!
http://www.xtranormal.com/watch/8120345/

# ? Feb 5, 2011 00:50

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