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The HBO shows were trying and sucsedding to being more then tv shows. They were trying to be better then anything else. The Shield was just an awesome tv show. It was not trying to be anything more then that. It was a better version of Law and order as it was not a procedual. The closest tv show to the Shield is Homicide, and that is not surprising as Clark Johnson was involved in both.
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Jan 8, 2011 06:05
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It didn't hurt that the finale lived up to the expectations of the hardcore fan then word got out to the people who later became fans. Sopranos is vividly debated to this day if the ending was brilliant or poo poo. The Wire, to me, got it like 90%. Beyond that you could run down the list of every show that ended in the last 10 years and The Shield's ending still reigns over them.
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Jan 8, 2011 09:01
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Yeah, The Shield has the best ending out of any show. And in my opinion, the best main character.
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Jan 8, 2011 09:05
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Dead Snoopy posted:It didn't hurt that the finale lived up to the expectations of the hardcore fan then word got out to the people who later became fans. Sopranos is vividly debated to this day if the ending was brilliant or poo poo. The Wire, to me, got it like 90%. Beyond that you could run down the list of every show that ended in the last 10 years and The Shield's ending still reigns over them. Only endings that are as good as the Shield in the last 10 years are Life on Mars/ Ashes to Ashes, Office, Angel, Six Feet Under, Farscape (man that was a kick in the balls) and JLU. Those are the only ones I can really think of.
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Jan 8, 2011 09:08
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Dead Snoopy posted:It didn't hurt that the finale lived up to the expectations of the hardcore fan then word got out to the people who later became fans. Sopranos is vividly debated to this day if the ending was brilliant or poo poo. The Wire, to me, got it like 90%. Beyond that you could run down the list of every show that ended in the last 10 years and The Shield's ending still reigns over them. I prefer Six Feet Under's. But the Shield was good too, and it's one of my all time favorite shows. It really makes a difference when actors are good at playing their characters. I couldn't imagine anyone else but Michael Chiklis as Vic Mackey, or Walton Goggins as Shane Vandrell. Corrine was the one one who made me wince when she appeared onscreen, but she was the only one. Actually one other character did as well but for different reasons and he was not on for the whole series. I really like Dexter, because of Michael C. Hall, but I was thinking about it lately and desert island bla bla bla I'd have to take the Shield with me, and leave Dex behind. SFU would be in the boat with me though. I haven't seen the Wire, from what I've seen around the forums (it's even mentioned a lot in GBS as being a fantastic show) I should grab a copy and start watching. Especially since I'm waiting for a bunch of shows like Breaking Bad to start up again. Can anyone answer this question- why is the Wire superior to the Shield (as it seems people think) without giving away plot spoilers? I'm just curious of the general reason why people seem to laud it's praises and place the Shield second in most cases. when worlds collide fucked around with this message at 12:21 on Jan 8, 2011 |
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Jan 8, 2011 12:02
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when worlds collide posted:I haven't seen the Wire, from what I've seen around the forums (it's even mentioned a lot in GBS as being a fantastic show) I should grab a copy and start watching. Especially since I'm waiting for a bunch of shows like Breaking Bad to start up again. More ambitious and probing of a lot of the issues facing society, with a much wider scope e.g the war on drugs, the downfall of the working class, the broken educations system, the quagmire of bullshit that is politics. Excellent show, but be aware that it is nothing like The Shield and most likely anything else you have seen, and it is definitely not a 'background' show, you need to actively watch it to fully appreciate what is going on.
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Jan 8, 2011 12:41
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Smorgasbord posted:More ambitious and probing of a lot of the issues facing society, with a much wider scope e.g the war on drugs, the downfall of the working class, the broken educations system, the quagmire of bullshit that is politics. Excellent show, but be aware that it is nothing like The Shield and most likely anything else you have seen, and it is definitely not a 'background' show, you need to actively watch it to fully appreciate what is going on. Thank you, that's a great description and it sounds right up my alley. I'll pick up a copy soon and start watching. I had been curious for awhile so it's nice to have a solid recommendation. 
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Jan 8, 2011 13:47
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Until the last season (and really, just for the newspaper characters), it also had significantly better characterization, though that's more a failing (possibly the only one!) of The Shield that The Wire doesn't fall into. I loved The Shield, but I've always thought the entire non-Strike-Team cast, with the possible exception of Claudette, were progressively less well-written as the show went along (can anyone seriously tell me what Julian's point of existence was after season 4? didn't the actor hate playing a gay guy or something?)
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Jan 8, 2011 18:17
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Fag Boy Jim posted:(can anyone seriously tell me what Julian's point of existence was after season 4? didn't the actor hate playing a gay guy or something?) I seem to remember an interview where the actor actually believed that Julian was actually 'cured' from his gayness after getting married.
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Jan 8, 2011 18:23
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Junkenstein posted:I seem to remember an interview where the actor actually believed that Julian was actually 'cured' from his gayness after getting married. He wasn't "cured", but still in denial, as shown in the last episode. According to Shawn Ryan, he never mentioned it outright again is because people who do go through anti-gay therapy can (and often do) stay married for years convincing themselves that they're straight.
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Jan 8, 2011 18:57
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User-Friendly posted:He wasn't "cured", but still in denial, as shown in the last episode. According to Shawn Ryan, he never mentioned it outright again is because people who do go through anti-gay therapy can (and often do) stay married for years convincing themselves that they're straight. Then they are found hiring gay hookers and smoking meth with them. Or hire them to carry their "luggage" Spoiled because it reveals Julian storyline
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Jan 8, 2011 19:01
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User-Friendly posted:He wasn't "cured", but still in denial, as shown in the last episode. According to Shawn Ryan, he never mentioned it outright again is because people who do go through anti-gay therapy can (and often do) stay married for years convincing themselves that they're straight. No, no, obviously he wasn't 'cured'. I said the actor actually believed Julian was, though.
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Jan 8, 2011 19:45
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Junkenstein posted:No, no, obviously he wasn't 'cured'. I said the actor actually believed Julian was, though. Oh, well then he's an idiot. Apologies for misunderstanding your post.
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Jan 8, 2011 19:58
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I don't really understand how the actor could believe that. Even afterwards it's plainly obvious that he's living in denial because the actor specifically potrays that kind of behaviour I really can't see how someone can be an actor and play a character and not understand the fundamental motivation of the character they're portraying even as they're portraying them.
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Jan 8, 2011 21:10
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when worlds collide posted:I haven't seen the Wire, from what I've seen around the forums (it's even mentioned a lot in GBS as being a fantastic show) I should grab a copy and start watching. Especially since I'm waiting for a bunch of shows like Breaking Bad to start up again. They aren't comparable. They feature cops and criminals and thats about it for similarities really. The Wire has alot more social, political and institutional context and tends towards realism, by which I mean that it tries to represent people, places, social and political groups and institutions as they exist in everyday life. It does not do this perfectly so don't take this to mean that the show never embellishes because it does although it does tend to shy away from doing so. Its slow paced and you are expected to pay attention to what is happening. With few exceptions it doesn't hand hold with exposition. The Wire is also basically one long narrative over its 5 season duration as opposed to being comprised of self contained episodes. The Shield is far less concerned about social, political and institutional context and far more concerned with personal drama which it does very well. For the most part it also cuts out the mundane and the incidental from what you see in the show so the pace is very quick. In The Wire, the mundane and incidental is important for what it tries to do so alot of it is kept in deliberately. The Shield starts off episodic but later on forms up into a long multi season narrative which is where it comes into its own. Its really just a different thing altogether and its good for entirely different reasons. If you go into The Shield expecting social context like The Wire then you will probably be disappointed. If you go into The Wire expecting fast paced personal drama like The Shield you will likewise be disappointed. What you should do is watch both and find theres that theres alot to like in both shows on their own terms. The Shield does the sword of damocles like nothing I've ever seen before or since. It does it on a personal level so we become emotionally invested in the lives of a few people (sworn officers if you can believe that) and the ever present peril that the control they maintain can be exposed at any moment for the criminal sham that it is. When watching the episode "Safe" for instance you get the feeling that literally any minute, everything is just going to implode. The tension is unbelievable and thats just Season 3. By Season 5 the Strike Team is so neck deep in poo poo that you have to doubt whether all the money and happiness in the world is worth living with the guilt. It also gets you emotionally invested in the life of a monster. At times it is so absolute that you find yourself feeling sorry for the guy and then you read out a list of the things hes done and welp. WanderingKid fucked around with this message at 22:07 on Jan 8, 2011 |
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Jan 8, 2011 21:55
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Fag Boy Jim posted:Until the last season (and really, just for the newspaper characters), it also had significantly better characterization, though that's more a failing (possibly the only one!) of The Shield that The Wire doesn't fall into. I loved The Shield, but I've always thought the entire non-Strike-Team cast, with the possible exception of Claudette, were progressively less well-written as the show went along (can anyone seriously tell me what Julian's point of existence was after season 4? didn't the actor hate playing a gay guy or something?) Oh drat, I forgot about that. Julian honestly always bothered me, something about his voice bothered me (I know, it's pretty dumb) and he really wasn't the most interesting character with his hangdog demeanor, it got really tiresome to me. I still would rather have 25 Julians to one Corinne. I did wonder what was up with that, Julian got married and bam. End of anything remotely compelling about his character. WanderingKid posted:They aren't comparable. They feature cops and criminals and thats about it for similarities really. Wow! Thanks for that. I'm really excited about it now. From what I'm hearing here from you and from Smorgasbord is that the Shield was more 'entertainment' tv, very good writing and character development/portrayal, but it still has that production gloss. I'm a bleeding heart liberal bla bla bla and I still really cared for Vic's character even through all the poo poo he did which I find morally very very wrong. That's part of why I liked the show, they took a guy who did bad things and they made him likable, even understandable (no small thanks to Chiklis, last episode of season 1 anyone?). At the end of it all I wasn't feeling as supportive of him but what a ride it was. I like tv like that. It's similar to how I feel watching Breaking Bad. You have the added benefit of it having that tv show feel, so you are always aware that it's actually Michael Chiklis you admire, not Vic Mackie. It doesn't make me question my ethical affinities to sympathise with him.  The Wire sounds to me a lot more 'documentary' style which I love, not to mention I adore tv that doesn't write down to it's audience. I LIKE having to pay attention and catch subtleties. Most tv shows I watch, I'll do other things while watching, like sewing or baking/cooking (not meth! ho ho) or writing letters or what not. Rarely is a show the type I have to pay strict attention to, and that's kind of sad. I'm really excited about the Wire. I have a real love for a view into lives I'll never live, so yup the Wire sounds right up my alley. There were many disappointing tv moments last season too, Dexter springs to mind. Ugh. Horrible season. I'm really looking forward to the Wire and there's still some good boxing day sales lingering, so I'll pick it up tomorrow if I'm not snowed in. Thank you both for your excellent responses. If anyone has any other shows to recommend, please feel free. I don't want to derail this thread though. I'm a total dvd whore. I love my little dvd collection.
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Jan 9, 2011 08:01
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When compairing The Shield to The Wire, try to think in terms of Scarface to The Godfather.
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Jan 9, 2011 08:07
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WanderingKid posted:They aren't comparable. They feature cops and criminals and thats about it for similarities really. Plus Clark Johnson! I think you've broken it down pretty well. The characterizations in The Wire are really about the actors in their roles in life whether that was working the streets/docks, running for office, following the paper trail, etc. The Shield had much more to do with interpersonal relationships. Sure, Aceveda had to work the system as he climbed politically and McNulty's relationships with his ex and Beadie tied into the rest of his life, but those were kind of stand-outs in the individual series. To compare, take out the brass from The Wire (or the schools, or whatever structure the season is focusing on) and the series is gutted. Take out Vic's family and Claudette and The Shield is little more than Aceveda yelling at Mackey for his loose-gun shennanigans. Relating to this, The Shield is ultimately the story of Vic Mackey, while The Wire is the story of Baltimore. Dead Snoopy posted:When comparing The Shield to The Wire, try to think in terms of Scarface to The Godfather. Well put.
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Jan 10, 2011 01:35
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Whoa did I just totally miss Clark Johnson in The Shield? :mind blown:
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Jan 10, 2011 06:47
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WanderingKid posted:Whoa did I just totally miss Clark Johnson in The Shield? :mind blown: He directed a couple episodes, and I think he appeared in the finale as the social worker who shows Corrine and the kids their new house
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Jan 10, 2011 07:23
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He directed the first & final episodes if I'm correct. It was a hell of a year for him, as he directed the finale of The Wire as well.
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Jan 10, 2011 10:42
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I was just looking through the production credits of all the episodes and noticed that David Mamet directed "Strays".  Loved American Buffalo. Theres some serious directorial chops flexing its muscles there.
WanderingKid fucked around with this message at 14:40 on Jan 10, 2011 |
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Jan 10, 2011 14:36
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I'm just about to finish up Season 1, this series is brilliant. (final episode spoiler) The way Vic smashes through the gate after the witness to the second cop killing was loving hilarious. Anyone have a gif?
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Jan 11, 2011 02:53
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I, Butthole posted:I'm just about to finish up Season 1, this series is brilliant. (final episode spoiler) The way Vic smashes through the gate after the witness to the second cop killing was loving hilarious. Anyone have a gif? Wow, this is a pretty impressive thought after the first season since it doesn't have its legs yet. Enjoy the ride
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Jan 11, 2011 03:06
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I was another late bloomer with the show, with Season 5 being the first I watched on TV as it aired new (catching up on DVD Seasons 1-4). Amazing. One thing I'll always remember about the show: I've been watching TV all my life. Perhaps the first time I ever actually said something to the effect of "Jesus..." after getting caught up in the storyline of a TV show was in the series finale after seeing that Shane poisoned his son along with Mara and the unborn baby before killing himself. Seeing the boy with (what was it, a fire truck?) in his hands was shocking. CBJSprague24 fucked around with this message at 03:21 on Jan 11, 2011 |
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Jan 11, 2011 03:19
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Dead Snoopy posted:When compairing The Shield to The Wire, try to think in terms of Scarface to The Godfather. That is a really good way to describe it. Maybe Goodfellas to Godfather would be better.
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Jan 12, 2011 01:50
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I prefer Scarface just because the main character is so quotable in both works.
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Jan 12, 2011 01:52
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I, Butthole posted:I'm just about to finish up Season 1, this series is brilliant. You are in for a hell of a ride then because season 1 is arguably the low point of this show. 
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Jan 12, 2011 10:20
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CBJSprague24 posted:One thing I'll always remember about the show: I've been watching TV all my life. Perhaps the first time I ever actually said something to the effect of "Jesus..." after getting caught up in the storyline of a TV show was in the series finale That was absolutely heartbreaking.
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Jan 12, 2011 16:15
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just finished up season 5 and started season 6. I'm not gonna spoiler this but HOLT poo poo they dialed up the intensity level about 1000%. 2 episodes into season 6 and I feel like I just watched a whole nother season. Everyone who says this series gets better each season is definitely right. edit: also if you want to compare the shield to the wire, no matter how ridiculous the plotlines, both shows do an excellent job of staying grounded in reality and no matter how farfetched it starts to seem, everyone has to deal with the consequences of their actions Aztec Galactus fucked around with this message at 03:34 on Jan 13, 2011 |
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Jan 13, 2011 03:25
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I, Butthole posted:I'm just about to finish up Season 1, this series is brilliant. (final episode spoiler) The way Vic smashes through the gate after the witness to the second cop killing was loving hilarious. Anyone have a gif? I don't think the gif qualifies as a spoiler, so here you go:  I actually finished Season 7 today. God dammit, I've never felt so ambivalent about a character in my life. I started out disliking Vic, rooted and cheered for him against my better judgement for most of the show, the last two episodes made me completely despise him, and then he walked out of the ICE building with that bad rear end look on his face and... I just don't know. You can't really like a guy like that. You can't even respect him. But he's absolutely fascinating to watch.
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Jan 13, 2011 22:52
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Borh posted:I don't think the gif qualifies as a spoiler, so here you go: Yesss. Thank you.
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Jan 22, 2011 05:17
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Borh posted:I don't think the gif qualifies as a spoiler, so here you go:
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Jan 23, 2011 01:22
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I thought this show was some lovely cop drama until I read this thread and started watching season 1. It OWNS.
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Jan 23, 2011 21:40
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Holy poo poo every episode is better than the one before 
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Jan 24, 2011 03:11
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I'm loving all these new folks coming into this thread and saying that Season 1 owns. If you are this excited right now then you will positively poo poo yourself at the awesomeness that is season 5. The Shield really doesn't hit its stride until Season 3 and after that its one long climb up epic mountain of kickassery.
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Jan 24, 2011 11:27
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I just finished it last night, I enjoyed the last season a lot - way more than I thought I would. Vic is up there with Tony Soprano when it comes to TV character heavyweights, all hail Mackey!
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Jan 24, 2011 14:11
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WanderingKid posted:I'm loving all these new folks coming into this thread and saying that Season 1 owns. If you are this excited right now then you will positively poo poo yourself at the awesomeness that is season 5. The Shield really doesn't hit its stride until Season 3 and after that its one long climb up epic mountain of kickassery. I loved S1 and half of S2, but I think the show starts its rise into the upper echelon when Armadillo gets his face burnt
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Jan 24, 2011 20:17
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Started season 2 now. Watching this and wire together. I think it is the closest I have come to having a tv show orgasm from all the awesome.
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Jan 24, 2011 21:02
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TUS posted:I loved S1 and half of S2, but I think the show starts its rise into the upper echelon when Armadillo gets his face burnt I always thought the blackmail box stuff in the later seasons was dumb and lasted too long, though.
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Jan 24, 2011 22:04
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