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Sugar Blaster posted:I'm not denying that his smoking played a role in being depushed and eventually released, but his initial push seemed more like a means to an end to build credible challengers for the Smackdown scramble match than any real long-term investment in his character, while concurrently being used as a vehicle to get Zeke over ala HBK/Diesel. This. He gets poo poo for "picking pot over his career," but listening to him talk about it, he clearly wasn't happy there for a variety of reasons. For a certain amount of money, you can put up with a job you hate, but there's a breaking point.
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Jan 23, 2011 03:58
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Orgophlax posted:On a related note, is Triple H supposed to come back at all or is he pretty much done at this point now that he has 2 kids and set for life? He's going to come back and bury Miz, and everyone in the Hut will cry about it while I dance naked in their tears.
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Jan 23, 2011 04:18
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CSammich posted:He's going to come back and bury Miz, and everyone in the Hut will cry about it while I dance naked in their tears. It's pretty cool that I've gotten so used to your hatred for The Miz that I actually laughed at your post.
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Jan 23, 2011 04:24
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CSammich posted:He's going to come back and bury Miz, and everyone in the Hut will cry about it while I dance naked in their tears. Not gonna lie I kinda want to see Triple H just destroy the Miz and Sheamus. I like them both a lot but it just seems... natural.
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Jan 23, 2011 06:22
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CSammich posted:He's going to come back and bury Miz, and everyone in the Hut will cry about it while I dance naked in their tears. I second this motion, and I don't even like Trips that much. But honestly, Unstoppable Trips Beatdown No. 848674 would be far more entertaining than anything Miz has ever done. I absolutely love my heels, but only if they're charismatic and credible. So, yeah, no Miz love here.
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Jan 23, 2011 06:33
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Absurdystopia posted:I second this motion, and I don't even like Trips that much. But honestly, Unstoppable Trips Beatdown No. 848674 would be far more entertaining than anything Miz has ever done. To say The Miz isn't charismatic is Hiram fucked around with this message at 06:55 on Jan 23, 2011 |
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Jan 23, 2011 06:48
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I still dont know how people dont see the massive growth the miz has undergone.
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Jan 23, 2011 06:53
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In regards to Triple H's "botch" with a jobber referenced last page. It's the avatar for Over-Sold e: so the link had video, eh.
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Jan 23, 2011 06:54
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Hiram posted:To say The Miz isn't charismatic is loving subjective. Let's not get all nasty here. Miz is fine and dandy, but he is the kind that rubs some the wrong way. Not in the "doing his job" sort of way, but in a way that some people really don't think that he looks like a plausible main eventer. I had a slow turn towards him myself, and at this rate he is going to get stale before he gets over with anyone who he hasn't convinced yet.
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Jan 23, 2011 06:54
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Fucken_Gieux posted:Let's not get all nasty here. Miz is fine and dandy, but he is the kind that rubs some the wrong way. Not in the "doing his job" sort of way, but in a way that some people really don't think that he looks like a plausible main eventer. I had a slow turn towards him myself, and at this rate he is going to get stale before he gets over with anyone who he hasn't convinced yet. I guess I can understand that some people might not see him as such. But to say he's not charismatic? Come on, man...
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Jan 23, 2011 06:56
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Hiram posted:I guess I can understand that some people might not see him as such. But to say he's not charismatic? Come on, man... Some people go for growly shouty, others, not so much.
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Jan 23, 2011 06:58
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Hiram posted:I guess I can understand that some people might not see him as such. But to say he's not charismatic? Really? Really? Really? Really? Charisma is a pretty subjective quality. I think Matt Morgan is really charismatic but I could understand other people not seeing it.
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Jan 23, 2011 07:18
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AkumaHokoru posted:I still dont know how people dont see the massive growth the miz has undergone. He's grown from loving horrible to not bad. I guess that does qualify as a huge improvement.
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Jan 23, 2011 07:35
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I think Miz is incredibly charismatic but that doesn't change the fact he has serious issues. First of all is his physique. Call it a new WWE world if you want but he's very average. Look at Jeff Jarrett in his prime and then look at the Miz. Hell, the comparison is very apt. Second, the heel character he is trying to get over is something we saw in the last two years being done by a much more talented wrestler who was much more charismatic and went farther than Miz is willing to go. That's Chris Jericho. Third, he's merely passable in the ring. The compliments people give him, even from those who love the guy, it sounds like someone trying to fetch excuses for a big hoss. Only Miz is not a big hoss. Miz to me scores a Mike Sanders rating. He's above average. Above average does not scream WWE Champion to me, but eh. The guy works his rear end off for the company and the fed could do worse. What I'm curious is if he could one day be a money drawing babyface. And yeah, I've seen him pander on talk shows and 5th Grader. I'm saying, could he be a guy people pay money to see and cheer?
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Jan 23, 2011 07:43
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The Miz's character is really different from Jericho's character. It isn't even really close. They don't dress a like, they don't act the same way, their mannerisms and vocal inflections are different and the content of their promos is drastically different. The main similarity is "they both think they are really great." But nearly every heel thinks that.
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Jan 23, 2011 07:47
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HHH scoring dominant wins over Miz and Sheamus probably won't piss most people off since everyone here is used to it. What should make people explode in a frothing rage will be when he just shrugs off their attempts to be heels and laughs at the notion that they're a threat.
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Jan 23, 2011 07:52
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MassRayPer posted:The Miz's character is really different from Jericho's character. It isn't even really close. They don't dress a like, they don't act the same way, their mannerisms and vocal inflections are different and the content of their promos is drastically different. I disagree with you on several levels so I'll just go ahead and leave the Chris Jericho quote. quote:For me, I was so over the whole Y2J thing. I just couldn’t even stand it. I just wanted to get completely different and change it. If you look back at that time, nobody was doing that. Nobody was coming out and being serious and not smiling. Nobody was wearing a suit. And that’s why I did it. And now every heel is coached to be that way. Be silent. Be straight. Because it worked. So now it’s the prerequisite for a WWE heel.
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Jan 23, 2011 07:53
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Jericho was the first one to really go in the WWE and do "serious heel, no catchphrases, dresses really nice, no redeeming qualities outside of wrestling talent." Miz has catchphrases, a lackey, symbols of his reign (the briefcase), media buzz...but otherwise he's generic. He runs away, he sneak attacks people, he calls himself very gifted (a'la JBL). Also drat you Rogue, I was citing the same interview.
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Jan 23, 2011 07:55
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Lone Rogue posted:I disagree with you on several levels so I'll just go ahead and leave the Chris Jericho quote. He's wrong. Miz doesn't wear a simple black suit. He wears really hideous clothing that makes him look like a douchebag. Look at his vests, then look at what Jericho wore. He doesn't act silent or straight. He's the Miz and he's AWESOME. He has a catch phrase and merch and seriously how can you think the two characters are alike? The Miz goes against pretty much everything Jericho talks about in his interviews regarding his character. Especially the roots as being the one honest man.
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Jan 23, 2011 07:56
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Lone Rogue posted:First of all is his physique. Call it a new WWE world if you want but he's very average. Look at Jeff Jarrett in his prime and then look at the Miz. Hell, the comparison is very apt. Miz has a great physique by any normal standard but a lot of WH2K is shares Vince's obsession with roid monsters, which is really sad in the 2010s. oldfan fucked around with this message at 08:12 on Jan 23, 2011 |
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Jan 23, 2011 08:04
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Ah yes, because the Miz is not a carbon copy of Chris Jericho, it must be a completely different character archetype. Miz speaks in a monotone, he dresses in a suit "in his own style", he might have a catchphrase but he now delivers it as monotone as possible much like Jericho with "I'm the best at what I do", he does act very straight so I don't get where you find he's not. Hell, Jericho did have a lackie in Lance Cade when he first began the gimmick, so Alex Riley is nothing different to what Jericho has done with his character. It was pretty obvious from the moment he came back after the Calgary Kid episode that the Miz was trying to borrow from Chris Jericho. It's still apparent now and when I watch him, I just feel like a less wrestling talented Jeff Jarrett is trying to do his own spin on what Chris Jericho did. There's a reason why when they tag teamed Jericho and Miz together, it felt like Ultimate Warrior tag teaming with the Renegade. But no, the roots are different. Can't be the same. Oh, and the Undertaker's "American Badass" gimmick was nothing like Austin's character. And Colin Delaney was nothing like Mikey Whipwreck! He didn't even wear a shirt!  jeffersonlives posted:Miz has a great physique by any normal standard but a lot of WH2K is shares Vince's obsession with roid monsters, which is really sad in 2010. Well of course by a normal standard. I'd love to look like the Miz in terms of physique. The guy works his rear end off in the gym. But pro wrestling is still larger than life. And Miz honestly isn't. Paper Jam Dipper fucked around with this message at 08:11 on Jan 23, 2011 |
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Jan 23, 2011 08:09
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I think the roots of the Miz's character are in The Rock and not Chris Jericho. Here's a Miz promo. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qqJIuxviG20 When I watch that I think of a guy who is a toned down version of the Rock, from the way he deals with the interviewer to the way he talks about himself. That also isn't monotone at all. Then look at the stuff he wears. The vests, the t-shirts, or THIS SUIT. None of this screams Jericho to me. It isn't the kind of thing The Rock would wear, but it is over the top and eye catching, like The Rock would do. The Miz's physique even fits his character. The Rock was an arrogant jock. So he had a great physique. The Miz is an arrogant frat boy (look at his wardrobe and his valet!) and looks the part. MassRafTer fucked around with this message at 08:19 on Jan 23, 2011 |
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Jan 23, 2011 08:13
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Lone Rogue posted:Well of course by a normal standard. I'd love to look like the Miz in terms of physique. The guy works his rear end off in the gym. But pro wrestling is still larger than life. And Miz honestly isn't. If you really still think in 2011 that having an unnatural physique is a prereq for being a star, I don't even really know what to say.
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Jan 23, 2011 08:14
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Lone Rogue posted:Well of course by a normal standard. I'd love to look like the Miz in terms of physique. The guy works his rear end off in the gym. But pro wrestling is still larger than life. And Miz honestly isn't. Larger than life thankfully does not have to be a literal thing. Hell, how big was Andy Kaufman?
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Jan 23, 2011 08:32
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Captain Charisma posted:HHH scoring dominant wins over Miz and Sheamus probably won't piss most people off since everyone here is used to it. What should make people explode in a frothing rage will be when he just shrugs off their attempts to be heels and laughs at the notion that they're a threat. And when he goes ahead and destroys Morrison and Bryan for no reason other than "I'm cool I can do what I want."
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Jan 23, 2011 08:37
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battlemonk posted:The guy was a jobber. He thought the Pedigree was going to be a double-underhook pile driver or suplex. He jumped into it, trying to flip. Triple H didn't know that, and dropped him on his head. Evidently he wasn't even injured. He's also a member of the OMEGA crew 
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Jan 23, 2011 08:42
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Maxwell Lord posted:Larger than life thankfully does not have to be a literal thing. Yes, the great Andy Kaufman. He was one of the best WWE World Champions in recent memory.
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Jan 23, 2011 08:44
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Lone Rogue posted:Yes, the great Andy Kaufman. He was one of the best WWE World Champions in recent memory. Shawn Michaels is the WWE proclaimed Greatest Ever and compared to him Miz looks like Lou Ferrigno.
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Jan 23, 2011 08:45
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jeffersonlives posted:Shawn Michaels is the WWE proclaimed Greatest Ever and compared to him Miz looks like Lou Ferrigno. Shawn Michaels in his prime *looked* amazingly athletic, much like what John Morrison looks like now. He was small but looked built to last. Miz might dwarf Bruce Lee but Bruce Lee still looked dangerous due to how shredded he was. Shawn is a really, really terrible example.
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Jan 23, 2011 08:51
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Lone Rogue posted:Yes, the great Andy Kaufman. He was one of the best WWE World Champions in recent memory. Jericho did/does not have a freakish physique. Nor Punk. Or Bryan. Or Barrett. Or Edge. I mean yes they are big guys or even really big compared to average but they are not roided out freaks. That's several guys that have gotten and/or are currently getting really sizeable pushes aside from Miz right off the top of my head. Barrett is the biggest of that lot but he's more "guy I would not gently caress with and hit the lottery as far as height" and not "holy poo poo how is he even human".
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Jan 23, 2011 08:53
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Lone Rogue posted:Yes, the great Andy Kaufman. He was one of the best WWE World Champions in recent memory. He may as well have been a title holder for how prominent he was. Now, unlike Kaufman, The Miz is supposed to be an actual wrestler (albeit one who uses every trick in the book to get an advantage), but every match I've seen him in, he has the skills to pull it off. That he is not literally huge is made up for by force of personality.
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Jan 23, 2011 08:54
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What kind of compensation did WWE offer to the supermarket that was destroyed by Stone Cold and Booker T?
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Jan 23, 2011 09:23
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The A-Team Van posted:What kind of compensation did WWE offer to the supermarket that was destroyed by Stone Cold and Booker T? Vince waved his hand and said: "You are now the supermarket that has been destroyed by Stone Cold and Booker T." And then he rode off into the sunset, on the shoulders of his chauffeur.
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Jan 23, 2011 09:50
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The A-Team Van posted:What kind of compensation did WWE offer to the supermarket that was destroyed by Stone Cold and Booker T? A burlap sack with a dollar sign on it full of $100 bills.
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Jan 23, 2011 10:27
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The A-Team Van posted:What kind of compensation did WWE offer to the supermarket that was destroyed by Stone Cold and Booker T? I think that actually ended up being covered by their insurance. They had a really great plan.
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Jan 23, 2011 10:30
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From what I've heard the pedigree has evolved slightly over time, but the above explanation sounds likely too, so I imagine it's a combination of the two.Maxwell Lord posted:But can't people just get the simple thrill of competition from MMA? Aren't the melodramatics the one thing pro wrestling has that the UFC can't do? Sugar Blaster posted:Besides, Kendrick seems like he's one of those guys who values his personal freedom over being in WWE as is evidenced by his previous request to be released from the company in the mid-2000's. Lamuella posted:What people like Russo often do wrong is think that playing games with the audience is more important than giving the audience a story. A vince Russo cookbook would start off with a recipe for baked alaska, then get you to throw away the beaten eggwhites and start grilling a steak halfway through because nobody would expect that. Sue Denim fucked around with this message at 13:00 on Jan 23, 2011 |
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Jan 23, 2011 12:57
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Sue Denim posted:From what I've heard the pedigree has evolved slightly over time, but the above explanation sounds likely too, so I imagine it's a combination of the two. Principle. A principal is a person, or something that would be considered most important or first. Anyway, the Pedigree evolved, yeah, but it was never intended as the botch that it was. It was always a face-buster style move, not a driver. And Russo did get to slowly integrate things into the product. And it worked. It was called the Attitude era. But the reason he slowly integrated them and transformed the product, rather than completely wipe everything away from day one, is because Vince McMahon was able to filter him and hold him back. When he doesn't have that kind of restraint (WCW, TNA) you get poo poo like viagra on a pole matches and lockboxes. And people possibly bad mouth Kendrick's beliefs because they also include "Bush did 9/11" and "Moon landing was faked."
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Jan 23, 2011 13:05
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I was referring to his WCW run, I don't really consider his attitude era contributions to necessarily be as reflective of his aims as a whole because as you said he had McMahon acting as a filter, from a comparative stand point it was very, very different in terms of over all content tone because while McMahon used Russo's ideas they were used as a way to bridge his own ideas towards the direction McMahon saw the wrestling business heading. Russo's WCW runs and more specifically his second run I believe portrays a far more accurate image of the direction Russo himself thought the wrestling business should be heading in to keep up with how fast pop-culture was moving. While I don't agree with those stand points I remember seeing criticisms directed at Kendrick directly relating to his departure from the WWE, which I certainly think is unfair.
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Jan 23, 2011 13:57
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jeffersonlives posted:If you really still think in 2011 that having an unnatural physique is a prereq for being a star, I don't even really know what to say. It should be (in my world)
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Jan 23, 2011 14:04
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SAVE_US.CHR
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Sue Denim posted:This is kind of how I feel, I think wrestling should play up the elements which make it unique to other forms of sports or entertainment rather than trying to replicate successful elements elsewhere, in the age of known kayfabe trying to replicate the feel of MMA just doesn't seem sensible to me. Then again, I'm not a businessman who has to fudge the numbers to keep WWE afloat. The problem with this argument is that UFC succeeds because its essentially uses classic wrestling booking. WWE wouldn't be "replicating UFC's success" because UFC has been replicating wrestling's success. And WWE doesn't really have an excuse considering it's fake.
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Jan 23, 2011 14:22
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