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WarLocke posted:Quick, does anyone know if PTN has a goatee?!? Related: Can Cardassians have goatees?
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Jan 23, 2011 20:49
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ShadowDragon8685 posted:Sorry, I cannot agree. You only need a mech that can fit an ERPPC to fry an atlas in one volley. I think part of the reason some people might dislike the level2+ tech is that it makes combat even more random since there are 1 hit kill weapons that work at long ranges. I suppose it makes sense in universe since everybody can make more mechs now that they can repair factories so it's okay if you blow more of them up. I think they're both fine but they certainly have different feels when playing.
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Jan 23, 2011 20:51
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Mukaikubo posted:Related: Can Cardassians have goatees? No, because if they could then the universe would have imploded from the concentrated awesome evilness. Longinus00 posted:You only need a mech that can fit an ERPPC to fry an atlas in one volley. I think part of the reason some people might dislike the level2+ tech is that it makes combat even more random since there are 1 hit kill weapons that work at long ranges. That and the general up-gunning of everything with a lesser need for actual tactics since you can just fire everything thanks to double heat sinks. But yeah, adding weapons that can tear off heads with one shot from half a map away was never a really good idea for balance, no matter how cool gauss rifles are.
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Jan 23, 2011 20:52
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quote:That and the general up-gunning of everything with a lesser need for actual tactics since you can just fire everything thanks to double heat sinks. I've got to disagree. There are a large number of Level 2 mechs- like the stock Timber Wolf, the very emblem of clan mechs- who can't just 'fire everything' or they will overheat just like an IS level 1 mech. Also, I really don't like the idea that any weapon with damage > 10 and range > ???? should never be allowed. It seems kinda silly. e: I actually had to quit playing the tabletop game because my group became fundamentalist NO LEVEL 2 TECH EVER AND YOU ARE A MORON FOR LIKING IT MUK so I am kind of defensive about this, sorry. 
Mukaikubo fucked around with this message at 20:59 on Jan 23, 2011 |
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Jan 23, 2011 20:57
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WarLocke posted:No, because if they could then the universe would have imploded from the concentrated awesome evilness. You're obviously forgetting about side strikes with LRMs and the joy of getting AC ammo crits on Marauders due to the possibility of armorless critical hits. I had the happy occurrence of this in Megamek last night (along with losing a fully functional Warhammer to a 400pt MG ammo crit... I hate non-energy weapons.). Edit: aargh, I qouted the wrong post and I can't fix it on my iPhone!
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Jan 23, 2011 20:57
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Longinus00 posted:You only need a mech that can fit an ERPPC to fry an atlas in one volley. I think part of the reason some people might dislike the level2+ tech is that it makes combat even more random since there are 1 hit kill weapons that work at long ranges. I suppose it makes sense in universe since everybody can make more mechs now that they can repair factories so it's okay if you blow more of them up. I think they're both fine but they certainly have different feels when playing. In theory, a Puma fitted properly could fry two Atlases in one turn, but I mean barring freak shots to the head. Not that I mind getting freak headshots, mind you.  Maybe it's something that doesn't enter my sphere of thought often because, as I said, Mechwarrior 4 was my first real BTech gaming, and getting a headshot in that game more or less required an act of god, because you sure as hell aren't going to get them intentionally. Even on a stationary mech standing still and politely waiting for you to shoot the cockpit you have to walk your shots, and you're still more likely to core it before getting in a headshot. Even so, I still love me some CERPPCs, in Megamek or otherwise. WarLocke posted:No, because if they could then the universe would have imploded from the concentrated awesome evilness. The thought of Dukat with an Evil Goatee of Evilness... I just shivered. quote:That and the general up-gunning of everything with a lesser need for actual tactics since you can just fire everything thanks to double heat sinks. You say that like those are bad things.
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Jan 23, 2011 20:58
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Also, and I am as guilty of this as anyone, but it might be a really good idea to take the recurring (it's happened at least twice in this thread) level 1 vs. level 2 arguments to the TGD thread so we do not muck up the LP thread any more than we have already mucked it up.
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Jan 23, 2011 21:02
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Mukaikubo posted:Also, I really don't like the idea that any weapon with damage > 10 and range > ???? should never be allowed. It seems kinda silly. A weapon that does 12+ damage to a single point (gauranteed head destruction, nevermind criticals) that can fire across the map and be mounted on a light mech is kind of over the line, in my opinion. Change any one of those factors (for instance, the AC/20 having a range of only 9) and it's all cool. But all three together are a bit much. Mukaikubo posted:Also, and I am as guilty of this as anyone, but it might be a really good idea to take the recurring (it's happened at least twice in this thread) level 1 vs. level 2 arguments to the TGD thread so we do not muck up the LP thread any more than we have already mucked it up. Yeah I'm gonna clam up on this one, it's not a big deal to me but I don't want to derail the thread.ShadowDragon8685 posted:The thought of Dukat with an Evil Goatee of Evilness... The proof that this is not possible is that we're still here. Thank god. 
WarLocke fucked around with this message at 21:04 on Jan 23, 2011 |
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Jan 23, 2011 21:02
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ShadowDragon8685 posted:In theory, a Puma fitted properly could fry two Atlases in one turn, but I mean barring freak shots to the head. Not that I mind getting freak headshots, mind you. BT is a completely different thing when playing mechwarrior just due to the shape of mechs having an impact on hitting them. The problem with decapitating weapons is that it hugely increases the chance of one shotting an enemy. With through armor criticals you still have to do well on two more rolls. Did mechwarrior have through armor criticals? I can't remember.
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Jan 23, 2011 21:11
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WarLocke posted:Did they ever move past the 'there are 4 types of mechs in the entire Sphere' thing they did with Centurions, Wolfhounds, Maulers and Axemen? Yeah, at one point they doubled the number to like, 7! Actually to be fair, every character did get a new mech, there's only so many new characters you can introduce in one season. They had to keep each character in the same mech consistantly..They had toys to market, after all. The show was actually not terrible. Most BattleTech 'purists' actually dislike it because it took some liberties with canon. I forget what. I think it was something about one mech that was used in it that hadn't been invented at that point in the timeline, and another mech that was used wasn't available to the nation that used it or something.
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Jan 23, 2011 21:12
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Gothsheep posted:The show was actually not terrible. Most BattleTech 'purists' actually dislike it because it took some liberties with canon. I forget what. I think it was something about one mech that was used in it that hadn't been invented at that point in the timeline, and another mech that was used wasn't available to the nation that used it or something. That would be the Axeman and Mauler, respectively if memory serves. The Mauler is pretty definitely a Kurita design and all the pilots were Steiners. The Axeman is in the 3050 TRO but IIRC the fluff says only experimental models were made before 3052 or something like that.
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Jan 23, 2011 21:15
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WarLocke posted:Quick, does anyone know if PTN has a goatee?!? Mukaikubo posted:Related: Can Cardassians have goatees? ActionZero fucked around with this message at 21:23 on Jan 23, 2011 |
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Jan 23, 2011 21:21
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I really think if we ever get another Star Trek show we need to have a cardie on the bridge crew. Even if he's a straight man you can have random aliens poo poo bricks at the Federation's new cardie security officer or whatever. 
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Jan 23, 2011 21:25
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WarLocke posted:I really think if we ever get another Star Trek show we need to have a cardie on the bridge crew. Even if he's a straight man you can have random aliens poo poo bricks at the Federation's new cardie security officer or whatever. Frankly, I'm hoping for a Cardassian counselor. "Tell me about your feelings. Tell me all your... secrets."
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Jan 23, 2011 21:27
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Mukaikubo posted:Related: Can Cardassians have goatees? Even worse. They can have a DOUBLE-GOATEE!  ... or whatever that is...
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Jan 23, 2011 21:28
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Man, I remember the Battletech toon, that was made about the same time as the Heavy Gear one right? Both were just around that level of awful where you just can't watch them again for me. On the topic of the actual game, each of the factions have access to diffrent mechs for the most part, right? How limited are the Kell Hounds' pool of giant robot death?
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Jan 23, 2011 21:28
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Mukaikubo posted:Frankly, I'm hoping for a Cardassian counselor.  Seconded! A counselor that doubles as the captain's (unofficial, of course) spymaster would be awesome.
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Jan 23, 2011 21:30
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ShadowDragon8685 posted:In theory, a Puma fitted properly could fry two Atlases in one turn, but I mean barring freak shots to the head. Not that I mind getting freak headshots, mind you. I was in a league with mw4 and you had to shoot the head twice to kill it, i got really good at it, the reason why it seems hard is the head is usually in a very specific place on the model you have to hit.
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Jan 23, 2011 21:43
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WarLocke posted:
Well, in the next generation novel about the mirror universe that got retconned out of existence, Troi was a viciously sadistic "counselor"/security/political officer, who controlled the Agony Booth and got off on torturing people, so... Oh god, star trek novels 
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Jan 23, 2011 21:43
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You know, I really should do columns on mechs. I mean drat, my user name is Defiance Industries.
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Jan 23, 2011 21:54
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I'm not very familiar with the rules, but it sounds like the levels are tied to tech level, which is also tied to era? If so, I remember the only Battletech I ever played was as a kid and it came on little clicky bases. I looked it up and apparently that was like the 3120's or something. I liked it, it had a Republic which was neat. Does that era have rules in this Battletech game too?
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Jan 23, 2011 21:59
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Defiance Industries posted:You know, I really should do columns on mechs. I mean drat, my user name is Defiance Industries. Yeah, honestly, I have my hands full with the history lessons. I'll leave the mechtech stuff up to other folks. Speaking of which, next one is ready to go as soon as we get an after-action report!
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Jan 23, 2011 21:59
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Defiance Industries posted:You know, I really should do columns on mechs. I mean drat, my user name is Defiance Industries. I'll help when i can and actually get them right this time  but sure man just get out a source book and go hog wild.
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Jan 23, 2011 22:01
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Dolash posted:If so, I remember the only Battletech I ever played was as a kid and it came on little clicky bases. I looked it up and apparently that was like the 3120's or something. I liked it, it had a Republic which was neat. Does that era have rules in this Battletech game too? That was MechWarrior: Dark Ages, which is related to BattleTech in that it takes place in the same universe, but about 80 years after all the fluff. They basically rebooted everything, and rules-wise it's almost entirely a new game. Edit: It was made by WizKids, who bought the IP after FASA went bankrupt. They didn't really have an interest in keeping on making BattleTech as it was, so they retooled it to be more like their other clicky games (Mage Knight, I think they had the superhero clicky game too, etc). I think FanPro eventually got the rights for the old rules (as opposed to the universe) and that's why you can still get new 'Classic BattleTech' stuff? I might have some of that wrong. Edit #2: Basically, Dark Ages is to BattleTech as JJTrek is to Star Trek. WarLocke fucked around with this message at 22:05 on Jan 23, 2011 |
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Jan 23, 2011 22:02
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Defiance Industries posted:You know, I really should do columns on mechs. I mean drat, my user name is Defiance Industries. Yeah. I'm doing the capsule tactical analyses on the crunchy stuff on Mechs for people to refer to, but mech fluff is fun fluff.
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Jan 23, 2011 22:21
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WarLocke posted:That was MechWarrior: Dark Ages, which is related to BattleTech in that it takes place in the same universe, but about 80 years after all the fluff. They basically rebooted everything, and rules-wise it's almost entirely a new game. A very apt description (it is basically garbage). Well actually it's just kinda uninspiring and while it had a cool idea it ended up being somewhat difficult to get excited about it.
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Jan 23, 2011 22:30
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WarLocke posted:Edit #2: Basically, Dark Ages is to BattleTech as JJTrek is to Star Trek. The difference is that JJTrek is actually not bad (so far).
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Jan 23, 2011 22:30
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Axe-man posted:I was in a league with mw4 and you had to shoot the head twice to kill it, i got really good at it, the reason why it seems hard is the head is usually in a very specific place on the model you have to hit. Well, it was possible to one shot mechs if you hit them in the head, but it generally required them to have lowered the head armor a bunch. Or to have an overwhelming firepower advantage. Dumping 6-8 ER Large Lasers and a pair of Clan Gauss into a Cougar's head is bad juju no matter how much armor they put there. Usually in MW4, it was easier to just build a mech that could two shot them with Center Torso hits, which was fairly easy given a non-crap mech and even class weights (IE an assault vs an assault or a medium vs a medium). Then you just have to hope one of your shots doesn't knick the head by accident. The stock leagues were more challenging and skill intensive, which is where your headshot sniping comes in handy. So many terrible stock loadouts...
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Jan 23, 2011 22:39
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WarLocke posted:That would be the Axeman and Mauler, respectively if memory serves. The Mauler is pretty definitely a Kurita design and all the pilots were Steiners. The Axeman is in the 3050 TRO but IIRC the fluff says only experimental models were made before 3052 or something like that. There was also the Bushwacker existing despite the show being set at a time where the mech wouldn't appear for at least another 5 years.
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Jan 23, 2011 22:42
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WarLocke posted:That was MechWarrior: Dark Ages, which is related to BattleTech in that it takes place in the same universe, but about 80 years after all the fluff. They basically rebooted everything, and rules-wise it's almost entirely a new game. Well, Dark Ages will still happen in the actual BT timeline, it's just that Catalyst, who currently hold the license, haven't expressed any interest in writing much source material about a time we've already seen and will probably skip over it for the most part.
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Jan 23, 2011 22:43
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Zaodai posted:The stock leagues were more challenging and skill intensive, which is where your headshot sniping comes in handy. So many terrible stock loadouts... Which is what i was in, then we modded the game to actually do "varients" that used approved as simular to the board game as possible. I was really good back in the day, and the kell hounds kinda were used to do house battles, since we all trained to take down as many mechs as we could with as few mechs as possible, in my hayday, i could take out a hunchbacks cannon first shot, or any arm or other weapons ( if you shoot INSIDE the barrel, the game registered it as a critical hit to a weapon and would trash it with enough damage, everything in mechwarrior has layers of hit points, for example you can't truely be one shot in that game unless you've hit your front armor with anything first, even a tree. Same with the head. We called it One Shot Protection, and it gave you a reason to avoid trees and the like. We tested it fairly seriously too.
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Jan 23, 2011 22:45
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Zaodai posted:Well, it was possible to one shot mechs if you hit them in the head, but it generally required them to have lowered the head armor a bunch. Or to have an overwhelming firepower advantage. Dumping 6-8 ER Large Lasers and a pair of Clan Gauss into a Cougar's head is bad juju no matter how much armor they put there. Well, you'll be delighted to hear that a gauss rifle, or ER PPC top the head will kill a mech in classic BT too. No matter if the the mech is light, or assault mech. 12 damage to the head and it's goodbye for that mech.
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Jan 23, 2011 22:47
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Defiance Industries posted:Well, Dark Ages will still happen in the actual BT timeline, it's just that Catalyst, who currently hold the license, haven't expressed any interest in writing much source material about a time we've already seen and will probably skip over it for the most part. I'd be much happier if they nullified all of it by simply changing the crap that leads up to it myself; make it a 'elseworlds' style spinoff. But that's probably my crotchety gamer self poking out. Tarquinn posted:Well, you'll be delighted to hear that a gauss rifle, or ER PPC top the head will kill a mech in classic BT too. No matter if the the mech is light, or assault mech. 12 damage to the head and it's goodbye for that mech. To clarify, in tabletop terms every mech's head has 3 points of internal structure and can have 9 points of armor. Period. No exceptions. Get hit with a gauss rifle to the head? No rolling on critical hit tables or anything like that; the head is just gone. WarLocke fucked around with this message at 22:52 on Jan 23, 2011 |
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Jan 23, 2011 22:49
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Axe-man posted:We called it One Shot Protection, and it gave you a reason to avoid trees and the like. We tested it fairly seriously too. Was that mod-only? I know in vanilla MW4 you could one shot mechs with headshots with low armor, or Ctor hits on rare occasion. Maybe it depended on how it counted hits? Like if you fired an alpha strike that included missiles and ballistic/energy weapons, the B/E weapons are going to get there well ahead of the missiles. I'd call that a single "shot", but the game would probably see it as multiple hits. I'm kind of curious if I ended up playing against you in anything. I didn't play variant modded leagues (though the one you were in sounded great), but I was head admin of the CZ league for awhile. Tarquinn posted:Well, you'll be delighted to hear that a gauss rifle, or ER PPC top the head will kill a mech in classic BT too. No matter if the the mech is light, or assault mech. 12 damage to the head and it's goodbye for that mech. That's really the way it should be. The Mechwarrior games were always fairly generous in how many hits you could take directly to the head. I always just assumed it was to counterbalance the fact that most weapons in the Mechwarrior games are far more accurate than they actually are in BT.
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Jan 23, 2011 22:53
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WarLocke posted:I'd be much happier if they nullified all of it by simply changing the crap that leads up to it myself; make it a 'elseworlds' style spinoff. But that's probably my crotchety gamer self poking out. I enjoyed the concept of the Dark Ages from a fluff perspective; it was a far more interesting choice than "oh no, another Clan is invading the Inner Sphere!" and the effective dissolution of the houses meant that there was an exciting sense of possibilities that I hadn't experienced. Of course, it all fell apart (and the game was crap), but I appreciate the intent when they first started.
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Jan 23, 2011 23:00
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Zaodai posted:Was that mod-only? I know in vanilla MW4 you could one shot mechs with headshots with low armor, or Ctor hits on rare occasion. Maybe it depended on how it counted hits? Like if you fired an alpha strike that included missiles and ballistic/energy weapons, the B/E weapons are going to get there well ahead of the missiles. I'd call that a single "shot", but the game would probably see it as multiple hits. it was that way out of the box, you don't really notice it, but most weapons travel at different speeds, but if you had 7 erlarge lasers hit your CT you would survive, bit if you had 5 erlarge lasers and a ERPPC one would hit after the other, being the "second shot." unless they patched it out, you can do the same thing by having two fire groups one with 5 ER large lasers, and one in another, and fire one then the other, they will die. Also most people as you notice just trudge through the trees and stuff, thus, losing that since, it has been damaged, if extremely slightly. edit: i'm trying to find my league and stuff Axe-man fucked around with this message at 23:07 on Jan 23, 2011 |
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Jan 23, 2011 23:01
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Also it gives light mechs the chance to take out assault mechs. The probabilty of that happening is miniscule, but it's there.
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Jan 23, 2011 23:01
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about my old league stuff: my bookmarks from that time are kinda a mess. all of the old bookmarks are either dead or dieing and we played in 3 leagues. http://www.arc-royal.com/hounds/ was our website, which the owner made a bitter kinda blog style a few years ago We played in Valor & Retribution Stock League MGO network Battletech, League, i forget if we played much in it or not been a while and the last one was a mektek league, but that was toward the end.
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Jan 23, 2011 23:25
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Hmmm. Only mechs I recognize are the Jenner and Dragon. I have to wonder, though, if that unknown is a Hollander. A surprise like a gauss rifle in this engagement strikes me as very much up Poptarts' alley.
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Jan 23, 2011 23:54
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Cythereal posted:Hmmm. Only mechs I recognize are the Jenner and Dragon. I have to wonder, though, if that unknown is a Hollander. A surprise like a gauss rifle in this engagement strikes me as very much up Poptarts' alley. It won't be a hollander for the same reason a T90 wouldn't show up if this was a WW2 war game.
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Jan 24, 2011 00:00
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