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Arglebargle III posted:Yeah a spacefaring culture would never use weight as a unit of measure, especially for something like a mech that's going to be traveling around. Can you imagine what a headache it would be to figure out the new tonnage every time you landed somewhere? Reactors don't explode in game unless you're using the "stackpole" rules.
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Jan 24, 2011 04:24
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Arglebargle III posted:Yeah a spacefaring culture would never use weight as a unit of measure, especially for something like a mech that's going to be traveling around. Can you imagine what a headache it would be to figure out the new tonnage every time you landed somewhere? Because tons can be 1,000 kilograms. quote:An aircraft, however large, is not a great comparison for a mech, obviously. B-52s aren't expected to survive direct hits from artillery or lug around fusion reactors. They don't explode. The video games do it to make it look more awesome. Some authors do it for more awesome descriptions. quote:2. Why is anyone using mechs anyway? Did they forget guided missile technology too? Why not just put a HEAT warhead through the cockpit, using any one of a zillion delivery systems available today? It's not WWII anymore. (Of course in wargaming it is WWII forever. Just check out the tactics of any popular wargaming franchise. It's WWII.) Because it's a game about mechs and driving mechs and they had to futz with realism to make something that would be fun.
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Jan 24, 2011 04:26
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I have it on good authority, that if I can get to its rear, with some decent luck, a full salvo and a kick that hits, I can kill it. With another mech(or two if they can't get to the other tank) assisting me, this tank is going down this round, or near deathed at the least!
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Jan 24, 2011 04:27
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Ah, I learned everything I know from the Mechwarrior series. Yay for realism in rules, I guess.Mukaikubo posted:Because tons can be 1,000 kilograms. Oh I know. But right now it's either keep posting or go do the dishes.  Do you know a mech that can do that?Arglebargle III fucked around with this message at 04:31 on Jan 24, 2011 |
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Jan 24, 2011 04:27
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Pladdicus posted:I have it on good authority, that if I can get to its rear, with some decent luck, a full salvo and a kick that hits, I can kill it. With another mech(or two if they can't get to the other tank) assisting me, this tank is going down this round, or near deathed at the least! ohhhhhhh, I thought we were about to do a firing phase NOW, never mind. All my points about the hovercraft being diabolically well placed are void.
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Jan 24, 2011 04:28
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No no. Round 1 was They all moved. We moved. Nobody was within shooting range of each other, firing phase skipped Round 2 has done enemies movement. Poptart should correct me if I'm wrong. Also, tactically, a rear shot is ideal, if we destroy their rear armor, their ammo will explode, resulting in an instant kill. (I believe)
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Jan 24, 2011 04:30
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Arglebargle III posted:Did they forget guided missile technology too? Yes, they did. Long-range guided missiles (i.e., actual missiles as opposed to the semi-guided dumfire rockets Battletech calls missiles) are Lostech. A few of them are still around, but they're pretty irreplacable so most places reserve them only for 'assassinating highly-placed traitors'.
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Jan 24, 2011 04:32
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Arglebargle III posted:An aircraft, however large, is not a great comparison for a mech, obviously. B-52s aren't expected to survive direct hits from artillery or lug around fusion reactors. Don't think about the technology too much, because the real question you should be asking yourself is why anybody would ever use a 15m tall walking target instead of a 4m tall minimal silhouette tank.
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Jan 24, 2011 04:33
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Dux Supremus posted:This isn't quite the impediment you might think it would be. They once tried to power a B-36 with a fission reactor, which weighs a lot more (from shielding) than even a neutron-spewing D-T reactor. Certainly it contains all the other fancy gadgets like servos and gyros you mentioned. As you say, the main thing is armor. But most mechs are supposedly sporting, what, less than 20 tonnes of the stuff? The USN's 64MJ railgun prototype can go through meters of armor from a hundred kilometers away, and USAF's ABL can drill through steel missile casings at a similar distance. Whatever a mech could haul around for protection wouldn't actually do it much good against dedicated mech-warfare weapons. So its armor is probably actually relatively light, because the mobility's more important. Because mechs get a free round to kick people up close.
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Jan 24, 2011 04:41
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That is an amazing link. I had no idea they tried to power an airplane with fission. It's such a fantastic(ally bad) idea. But honestly, I think the key to every technology oversight in wargames is just to remember that it's World War II. Why build a giant robot that's incredibly easy to hit? Because it's WWII and fire control is still really bad. Why doesn't someone just drop a missile on them? It's WWII, close air support exists but it isn't a 100% guaranteed kill yet. Why don't the infantry have any decent anti-armor weapons? Etcetera etcetera... Think about it. Every popular wargame system that's not classical or medieval warfare is set in World War II, it's just hidden behind god-emperors and giant robots. Arglebargle III fucked around with this message at 04:47 on Jan 24, 2011 |
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Jan 24, 2011 04:44
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Well, people just didn't buy futuristic wargames centered around tanks(and these games did exist) and infantry. If you've got a futuristic wargame that's popular, it's gotta have mecha. It's one of the few wargames that had much of a following outside grognards.
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Jan 24, 2011 04:46
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Arglebargle III posted:That is an amazing link. I had no idea they tried to power an airplane with fission. It's such fantastic(ally bad) idea. I agree with you and I think we're all on the same page here, though. It's all in because it's cool.
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Jan 24, 2011 04:47
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So for movement can I use jumpsets AND run, or is it an or option? Anyway, my tactical options are A) Move to a blocking position in 0611 or thereas about and try and shoot the hovercraft when it blats past me B) Rambo the hovercraft this turn Can I do over-watch in this game? If I can do any sort of interrupt fire whatsoever, my inclination is to walk to a blocking position and set overwatch. Whatcha going to Lance Leader? 
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Jan 24, 2011 04:50
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Arglebargle III posted:That is an amazing link. I had no idea they tried to power an airplane with fission. It's such a fantastic(ally bad) idea. Russians tried it to. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tupolev_Tu-119 Dux Supremus posted:If you think that's amazing, you should read about the greatest weapon ever. It's the only thing I've ever heard of that was cancelled for being "too provocative." Who needs nuclear ramjets when you could have a nuclear rocket.   http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NERVA Longinus00 fucked around with this message at 04:58 on Jan 24, 2011 |
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Jan 24, 2011 04:51
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Dux Supremus posted:If you think that's amazing, you should read about the greatest weapon ever. It's the only thing I've ever heard of that was cancelled for being "too provocative." What you forget to mention is that testing a weapon whose goal is to deliver a nuke while irradiating the enemies' teritory with it's propulsion system is pretty drat hard to justify. "How do we know if it works?" "If all of California gets cancer and dies, we'll call it a sucsess."
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Jan 24, 2011 04:58
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Cthulhu Dreams posted:So for movement can I use jumpsets AND run, or is it an or option? you can either jump or run since it takes the same amount of time to land without killing yourself. I'd say jump close to him and try shooting then next turn get as far away as you can... but it is up to you how risky you want to roll with it.
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Jan 24, 2011 04:58
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Arglebargle III posted:Think about it. Every popular wargame system that's not classical or medieval warfare is set in World War II, it's just hidden behind god-emperors and giant robots. Aw come on man, that's because the future of warfare sucks. Have you played Combat Mission: Shock Force? Here's my LP for a realistic circa 3050AD wargame: D-Day, H-Hour, M-Minute, S-Second: Boob boob boop, enemy forces spotted by automated defense grids and being engaged. D-Day, H-Hour, M-Minute, S-Second +1: Boop boop boop, we have defeated enemy forces by taking advantage of .7 microsecond gap in their core network security algorithms. D-Day, H-Hour, M-Minute, S-Second +2: Boop boop boop, your sustenance tea and virtua porn has been updated. D-Day, H-Hour, M-Minute, S-Second +3: Boop boop boop, our stellar empire has been defeated by undetectable Class J entity. The end. It'd be less interesting than an alpha rogue-like.
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Jan 24, 2011 04:58
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Cthulhu Dreams posted:So for movement can I use jumpsets AND run, or is it an or option? Nope. Either jumpjets or run in a single turn. And there's no interrupt fire.
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Jan 24, 2011 04:58
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Moving to 1707, facing the tank, firing a full salvo, and kicking. Any alternative suggestions? Sending orders in an hour or so.
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Jan 24, 2011 05:06
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Pladdicus posted:Moving to 1707, facing the tank, firing a full salvo, and kicking. Don't forget to specify a facing.
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Jan 24, 2011 05:08
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elitebuster posted:What you forget to mention is that testing a weapon whose goal is to deliver a nuke while irradiating the enemies' teritory with it's propulsion system is pretty drat hard to justify. Horrifying. But we live in an "enlightened" era. And that's enough of the atomic age weapons derail, I think.
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Jan 24, 2011 05:08
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TildeATH posted:Aw come on man, that's because the future of warfare sucks. Have you played Combat Mission: Shock Force? As good as Grey Hunter's and Skillness' CM:SF LPs have been, they do get rather repetitive after awhile: code:
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Jan 24, 2011 05:11
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Pladdicus posted:Moving to 1707, facing the tank, firing a full salvo, and kicking. I would suggest walking and keeping about 3 hexs from it, and then shooting until your heat limit is up. Kicking requires a piloting roll and will damage your leg armor, better to save the armor and just fire at it, since, it moved so much chances are low to hit, but if you do good chance to disable it. I've got some fire on it. if we could get the griffin to get some fire on the other one we will have grouped our fire most effectively. edit: On the topic of why battlemech doesn't use computers and that, is that it allows truely skilled pilots to come to the forefront, instead of computer assisted. So in novels and fluff it is more about the skill of the people in it, instead of the machine targeting and who fires first so basically 
Axe-man fucked around with this message at 05:16 on Jan 24, 2011 |
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Jan 24, 2011 05:13
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Arglebargle III posted:2. Why is anyone using mechs anyway? Did they forget guided missile technology too? Why not just put a HEAT warhead through the cockpit, using any one of a zillion delivery systems available today? It's not WWII anymore. (Of course in wargaming it is WWII forever. Just check out the tactics of any popular wargaming franchise. It's WWII.) Supposedly warfare in the future was pretty much hard science - stealth was key, if you saw it you hit it with a railgun and it died. Enter magic space armor - some kind of compound that was very, very resistant to kinetic damage and the only way to punch through was lasers or rapid consecutive impacts. All of a sudden you had to be within slugging distance of the enemy. Combine that with the development of artificial muscle that is very efficient and the benefits of locomotion and you get walking robots fighting it out at 200m.
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Jan 24, 2011 05:14
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Axe-man posted:I would suggest walking and keeping about 3 hexs from it, and then shooting until your heat limit is up. Kicking requires a piloting roll and will damage your leg armor, better to save the armor and just fire at it, since, it moved so much chances are low to hit, but if you do good chance to disable it. I've got some fire on it. Agree. All your attacks are going to be low probability already- don't jump or run, because that'll make it an even harder shot. Save that for running from the Mechs.
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Jan 24, 2011 05:14
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Axe-man posted:I would suggest walking and keeping about 3 hexs from it, and then shooting until your heat limit is up. Kicking requires a piloting roll and will damage your leg armor, better to save the armor and just fire at it, since, it moved so much chances are low to hit, but if you do good chance to disable it. I've got some fire on it. Hmm. The only thing is, if I can get to his rear, he can't fire back at me meaning I won't take any damage this round and it'll be poured on you A/B, who, lets face it, are much more likely to survive the rest of the fight. Not to mention if I destroy his rear armor, it destroys his ammunition which means he'll be destroyed outright. A full salvo+kick is almost guaranteed to do this, pending rolls.
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Jan 24, 2011 05:15
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raverrn posted:Supposedly warfare in the future was pretty much hard science - stealth was key, if you saw it you hit it with a railgun and it died. Enter magic space armor - some kind of compound that was very, very resistant to kinetic damage and the only way to punch through was lasers or rapid consecutive impacts. All of a sudden you had to be within slugging distance of the enemy. Combine that with the development of artificial muscle that is very efficient and the benefits of locomotion and you get walking robots fighting it out at 200m. But what about autocannons or gauss rifles?
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Jan 24, 2011 05:15
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Pladdicus posted:Hmm. The only thing is, if I can get to his rear, he can't fire back at me meaning I won't take any damage this round and it'll be poured on you A/B, who, lets face it, are much more likely to survive the rest of the fight. He can fire at you no matter where you are. Also, breaching armor isn't a guaranteed ammo explosion or anything. I honestly think the light mechs should be focusing on the other tank since the medium mechs should crush the closer one. Longinus00 fucked around with this message at 05:21 on Jan 24, 2011 |
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Jan 24, 2011 05:17
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Pladdicus posted:Hmm. The only thing is, if I can get to his rear, he can't fire back at me meaning I won't take any damage this round and it'll be poured on you A/B, who, lets face it, are much more likely to survive the rest of the fight. tanks have turrets that have 360 degree rotation, so really, not worth it 
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Jan 24, 2011 05:18
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Artificer posted:But what about autocannons or gauss rifles? Autocannons fire in bursts and Gauss Rifles are supposed to fire a really heavy round slug. That's why they're no good over a kilometer or so, air friction kills it.
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Jan 24, 2011 05:20
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At some point, you just have to accept that it's a game about giant robots fighting and hand wave some of that poo poo away because GIANT ROBOTS FIGHTING. This isn't Assimov people.
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Jan 24, 2011 05:20
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Artificer posted:But what about autocannons or gauss rifles? Autocannons in the Battletech universe are giant machine guns for giant robots. Can't have giant future space robots without giant future space machine guns. And a Gauss rifle is the single most powerful gun possible without explosives.
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Jan 24, 2011 05:22
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^ The biggest problem with CM:SF is that it was just no fun when it first came out and was as buggy as crap (If I can see you, and you can see me, and you can shoot at me, why can I not shoot at you? Broken LOS model AHOY) Anyway, no overwatch means going full rambo. I'm going to Run to 1114 (9 hexes of movement + 1 move + 1 hill climb), torso twist towards the hover tank and unload into the hover tank Any plan that involves walking doesn't get me into short range, and I'm not even sure I still have LOS. This also means I am behind a light and heavy forest from the hostile mech firing positions. I might have an issue with K2 still, but hey, that's the supposedly undergunned (according to the company intel officer) Spider Mech, so if he comes for me, I can smash him with return fire. edit: Wow, that Spider is a real plonker. Two MGs and a Medium laser? If I get the chance I am going to carve this guy up. Next turn I will jump jet back over the hill towards the rest of my lance. @Pladdicus quote:Scratch my plan, I'm going to move into its flank, and open fire, ending my turn with a most excellent kick. If movement takes place simultaneously, how do you know this is going to work? @Post Below: Okay, makes sense. Cthulhu Dreams fucked around with this message at 05:28 on Jan 24, 2011 |
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Jan 24, 2011 05:22
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Cthulhu Dreams posted:^ The biggest problem with CM:SF is that it was just no fun when it first came out and was as buggy as crap (If I can see you, and you can see me, and you can shoot at me, why can I not shoot at you? Broken LOS model AHOY) Movement doesn't, he has already moved, that is where he will end his turn. Anyway, if I crunched the numbers right, he needs a 7 to hit me, provided half of his attacks hit that's something like 7 damage, if I don't move, he needs a six to hit me, hardly better then just getting up close to him. If I walk, I can hit him on 7's, but it'll be primarily damage to his sides I believe, and either way he'd still hit me on 6's (unless I moved out of range, but then my to hit is still 7) It's about the same, except I get a kick at the end. With my average damage somewhere around 12 with about 3 hits I stand a good chance of damaging his engines badly, immobilizing him, or outright killing him. Alternatively, you're right, I could just get distance, move into cover and take potshots letting you guys mop him up. But then I'd just be closer to the other half of the enemy, not a place that's ideal for me. Also, do kicks deal damage to my legs? I didn't read anything like that, and Megamek doesn't support that. Pladdicus fucked around with this message at 05:28 on Jan 24, 2011 |
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Jan 24, 2011 05:22
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Pladdicus posted:Hmm. The only thing is, if I can get to his rear, he can't fire back at me meaning I won't take any damage this round and it'll be poured on you A/B, who, lets face it, are much more likely to survive the rest of the fight. Tanks have turrets, which can fire in any direction. Pladdicus posted:Not to mention if I destroy his rear armor, it destroys his ammunition which means he'll be destroyed outright. A full salvo+kick is almost guaranteed to do this, pending rolls. Not strictly true, if you destroy his armor and all points of internal structure, you'll destroy the machine (ammo has nothing to do with it). Tanks use a different critical hit mechanic, however, so potentially quite a few hits can be 'criticals' and a roll of a 2 or a 12 (1:18 chance) has a very good chance of simply destroying the tank outright.
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Jan 24, 2011 05:30
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PoptartsNinja posted:Tanks have turrets, which can fire in any direction. Ahh, I see. I'm using Megamek as a frame of reference for my statistics. So any misunderstandings on my part might stem from A)Inexperience or B)Differences between the used system. (As for the turret thing, I just never tried to twist it all the way around. But yes! Lesson learned. Thanks!)
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Jan 24, 2011 05:31
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I would say have the Jenner and Vulcan go after K6 while the two heavier mechs take out K5. Just make sure to stay out of sight/range of the enemy mechs. Hopefully we can get both on this turn.
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Jan 24, 2011 05:32
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Is there anyplace I can read up some history? There's all these crazy stories and terms flying about and it seems interesting but I don't really know what's going on. I don't want to sign up, not sure I'll have the time and I'm completely inexperienced. Just an interested lurker.
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Jan 24, 2011 05:32
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Pladdicus posted:Ahh, I see. I'm using Megamek as a frame of reference for my statistics. So any misunderstandings on my part might stem from A)Inexperience or B)Differences between the used system. Megamek follows the game rules almost 100%. The differences between the rules are probably never going to come up in this game (they're in the readme if you're curious). KnoxZone posted:I would say have the Jenner and Vulcan go after K6 while the two heavier mechs take out K5. Just make sure to stay out of sight/range of the enemy mechs. Hopefully we can get both on this turn. Yea, this is what I was suggesting earlier. The way the terrain works out you have one more free turn before the other Kurita mechs can even see your units. VVV Remember that involves a piloting roll. Longinus00 fucked around with this message at 05:43 on Jan 24, 2011 |
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Jan 24, 2011 05:39
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KnoxZone posted:I would say have the Jenner and Vulcan go after K6 while the two heavier mechs take out K5. Just make sure to stay out of sight/range of the enemy mechs. Hopefully we can get both on this turn. Maybe Pladdicus could move the Vulcan to the water in 1310 and then we have the hoovertank in a vice? That move would also put him in the water for improved heat dissipation, and enables him to react to a move up the river or into the northern sector, while he is screened by the hills and forests.
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Jan 24, 2011 05:40
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