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Cthulhu Dreams posted:Maybe Pladdicus could move the Vulcan to the water in 1310 and then we have the hoovertank in a vice? Excellent idea! I could hit K6 with you while the others got for K5
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Jan 24, 2011 05:41
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GenericOverusedName posted:Is there anyplace I can read up some history? There's all these crazy stories and terms flying about and it seems interesting but I don't really know what's going on. Agent Interrobang actually did a little series of abridged history bits a few pages back. Or maybe ten. Dang, this thread moves fast. Edit: just click this handy link and scroll down a bit. Then keep your eyes peeled for part 3 to appear later. Tuxedo Ted fucked around with this message at 05:46 on Jan 24, 2011 |
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Jan 24, 2011 05:44
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If a piloting roll into the water is too risky, then Pladdicus walking to 1209 offers many of the same advantages (he's behind the hill), but he has to fire at medium range. I don't know enough of the rules to do the risk/reward analysis, though I suspect the land square is better unless his mech has massive heat issues. Comedy option attack: Do a death for above with jump jets on the lower hoovertank.
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Jan 24, 2011 05:49
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Arglebargle III posted:Does anyone else wonder what the hell they're using for "tons" in the 4th millenium? Mechs are just too goddamn big to only weigh 30-100 tons. An M1 Abrams weighs 60 tons... I'm fairly sure a heavy mech is several times larger than that. Most of the internal structure of a mech is composed of myomer strands. Think of it as lightweight "cords" that contract when electricity is passed through them. It's basically "muscles for mechs" wrapped around the core internal structure (bones) and below the armor (skin). It's a super-science widget and very light (in comparison to the other stuff that goes into a mech) so there's your fluff explanation.  http://www.sarna.net/wiki/Myomer Arglebargle III posted:2. Why is anyone using mechs anyway? Did they forget guided missile technology too? Why not just put a HEAT warhead through the cockpit, using any one of a zillion delivery systems available today? It's not WWII anymore. (Of course in wargaming it is WWII forever. Just check out the tactics of any popular wargaming franchise. It's WWII.) "Because they're cool" is literally the only reason. The entirety of the fluff universe is finessed into making them the primary tool of war instead of walking targets as they would be in reality. PoptartsNinja posted:Yes, they did. Long-range guided missiles (i.e., actual missiles as opposed to the semi-guided dumfire rockets Battletech calls missiles) are Lostech. A few of them are still around, but they're pretty irreplacable so most places reserve them only for 'assassinating highly-placed traitors'. Yep, a guided missile in BattleTech parlance is a 'Streak' system (if your hit roll succeeds, all missiles hit, you don't have to roll to see how many) and only available in the SRM variety (unless you're using level 3 rules maybe). In any case, all missiles used in this era are pretty much dumbfires. GenericOverusedName posted:Is there anyplace I can read up some history? There's all these crazy stories and terms flying about and it seems interesting but I don't really know what's going on. Here's the unofficial BT wiki's page on the universe's history. Lots of other good reading there if you're interested: http://www.sarna.net/wiki/History
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Jan 24, 2011 05:50
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Cthulhu Dreams posted:If a piloting roll into the water is too risky, then Pladdicus walking to 1209 offers many of the same advantages (he's behind the hill), but he has to fire at medium range. I could move into 1411, with a flank. Not a terribly bad idea, gives me some dodging abilities, still risky, but gets me in firing range.
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Jan 24, 2011 05:51
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I think you are one square of movement short because you have to walk uphill? 2 Squares to walk to 1408 1 Square to turn 2 Squares to walk to 1409 1 Square to walk to 1410 Making you 1 square of movement short, or I am missing something, which is more likely.
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Jan 24, 2011 05:54
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You can only kick a vehicle that is sharing the same hex as you, if that changes anyone's thoughts on what they're attempting.
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Jan 24, 2011 05:55
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WarLocke posted:Yep, a guided missile in BattleTech parlance is a 'Streak' system (if your hit roll succeeds, all missiles hit, you don't have to roll to see how many) and only available in the SRM variety (unless you're using level 3 rules maybe). In any case, all missiles used in this era are pretty much dumbfires. Don't forget arrow IV homing, narc missles, artemis iv. Pladdicus posted:I could move into 1411, with a flank. Not a terribly bad idea, gives me some dodging abilities, still risky, but gets me in firing range. Actually that would be a pretty bad idea as it means the dragon and spider can shoot you. Longinus00 fucked around with this message at 05:58 on Jan 24, 2011 |
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Jan 24, 2011 05:56
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Cthulhu Dreams posted:I think you are one square of movement short because you have to walk uphill? Mostly because I can move 9 if I flank. And it's 9 altogether. +2 to move UP two, not just 1 for any elevation change.
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Jan 24, 2011 05:56
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Pladdicus posted:Mostly because I can move 9 if I flank. And it's 9 altogether. +2 to move UP two, not just 1 for any elevation change. OHHH, that's what you meant by flank - sorry, I thought you meant a flank shot, not flank speed. Right, got it now. Okay, that makes sense, let's go with that plan pending any tweaks from the tactical advisors.
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Jan 24, 2011 05:59
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okay guys, remember to take your targets in groups, if the griffin and i are the slowest, it maybe best to have us on the one out in front, pladdicus you might want to go to the other side and go into the trees if possible and gang up on him, or (and this is prolly best) wait for him to come around the bend, hovercraft have movement rules about going into trees if i remember right, so making him go around and allowing you to setup for a good attack once he does.
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Jan 24, 2011 06:00
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Longinus00 posted:Don't forget arrow IV homing, narc missles, artemis iv. Well, true. But none of them are really applicable to Our Heroes yet, anyway.
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Jan 24, 2011 06:00
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Longinus00 posted:Don't forget arrow IV homing, narc missles, artemis iv. What's their maximum range? I'd still like to pull it off, maybe in another position
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Jan 24, 2011 06:01
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Oh, I should also mention: you can only go up single elevation levels at a time; so that +2 cliff is actually impassable unless you want to try to climb up it. With a 'Mech that has no hands. Risking a height 2 fall in the process. ... in other words, I really wouldn't recommend trying to scale a cliff as tall as your 'Mech. The terrain around here is intentionally pretty tricky--it slows down scouts, so it's a great landing zone--but it also slows down counter-scouts. Besides, jump jets trivialize moves like that. Don't forget you've got 'em.
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Jan 24, 2011 06:01
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PoptartsNinja posted:Oh, I should also mention: you can only go up single elevation levels at a time; so that +2 cliff is actually impassable unless you want to try to climb up it. With a 'Mech that has no hands. Risking a height 2 fall in the process. Oooh. I thought mechs could move +2, didn't know there was some kind of climb attempt. Nevermind that.
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Jan 24, 2011 06:03
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Pladdicus posted:What's their maximum range? I'd still like to pull it off, maybe in another position Maximum range isn't an issue. The dragon could hit your right now if everything were perfectly flat. Remember to take into account intervening terrain.
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Jan 24, 2011 06:04
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Arglebargle III posted:2. Why is anyone using mechs anyway? Did they forget guided missile technology too? Why not just put a HEAT warhead through the cockpit, using any one of a zillion delivery systems available today? It's not WWII anymore. (Of course in wargaming it is WWII forever. Just check out the tactics of any popular wargaming franchise. It's WWII.) Yes, guided missile technology has been forgotten outside of primitively-guided LRMs and SRMs, at this point. Second, modern weapons like HEAT rockets are next to useless against 31st century armor. 21st-24th century weapons are in their own category called "primitive weapons," and most of them do nothing or next to nothing. The 120mm gun on a modern MBT for instance does 0-1 points of damage against armor. IOW, it takes ten shots from a tank's main gun to put down a Clan infantryman wearing Elemental armor, and upwards of 300 to take out an Atlas. BT armor is magic.
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Jan 24, 2011 06:06
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I sent my order in. I will engage K5 at range 6, maximizing my chance to hit with my two weapons. Hopefully I can give it a loving dose of PPC.
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Jan 24, 2011 06:06
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Axe-man posted:okay guys, remember to take your targets in groups, if the griffin and i are the slowest, it maybe best to have us on the one out in front, pladdicus you might want to go to the other side and go into the trees if possible and gang up on him, or (and this is prolly best) wait for him to come around the bend, hovercraft have movement rules about going into trees if i remember right, so making him go around and allowing you to setup for a good attack once he does. Reading the map with the new insight about cliffs, I think that K6 must drive north towards K5, because I cannot see how it can get out of the river in any other direction. However, I still think I should shoot it this turn.
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Jan 24, 2011 06:06
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Pladdicus posted:What's their maximum range? I'd still like to pull it off, maybe in another position The Spider can reach out to 9 hexes, the Dragon to 21 with its missiles and 15 (?) with the autocannon, then gets more firepower at 9 with lasers.
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Jan 24, 2011 06:06
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Longinus00 posted:Maximum range isn't an issue. The dragon could hit your right now if everything were perfectly flat. Remember to take into account intervening terrain. Ah, so I have to make sure to stay out of LOS. Gotcha. Didn't know if it was armed in a lot of medium lasers or whatever. Could move to 1209 and open fire on K6.
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Jan 24, 2011 06:07
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Pladdicus posted:Ah, so I have to make sure to stay out of LOS. Gotcha. Didn't know if it was armed in a lot of medium lasers or whatever. The other advantage of being in 1209 is that is the square the Hoovertank must move through to get out of the river basin. If you are there it cannot escape the range of your jump jets for at least one more turn.
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Jan 24, 2011 06:11
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Cthulhu Dreams posted:The other advantage of being in 1209 is that is the square the Hoovertank must move through to get out of the river basin. If you are there it cannot escape the range of your jump jets for at least one more turn. The hovertank can't pass through wooded areas so it can't get out from the lake anyway.
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Jan 24, 2011 06:14
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Longinus00 posted:The hovertank can't pass through wooded areas so it can't get out from the lake anyway. Yes it can - 1312, 1311, 1310, 1209, 1309, 1308 is a valid path with no woods and only a Z level climb of 1 at any point. It also puts it slap bang in the middle of our northern three mechs, who will then murder it.
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Jan 24, 2011 06:17
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Longinus00 posted:The hovertank can't pass through wooded areas so it can't get out from the lake anyway. Yes it can. The -1, -2 etc denote the depth of the bottom of the river. Hovertanks travel along the top, and treat it as level 0 terrain, which means they can go up level 1 hills. Vehicles in level 1 exist almost solely to throw opponents for a loop, which is why I included some. Hell's Horses fields Clan tanks pretty frequently, and they can be utter bastards to deal with. PoptartsNinja fucked around with this message at 06:21 on Jan 24, 2011 |
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Jan 24, 2011 06:18
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Cthulhu Dreams posted:Yes it can - 1312, 1311, 1310, 1209, 1309, 1308 is a valid path with no woods and only a Z level climb of 1 at any point. It also puts it slap bang in the middle of our northern three mechs, who will then murder it. PoptartsNinja posted:Yes it can. The -1, -2 etc denote the depth of the bottom of the river. Hovertanks travel along the top, and treat it as level 0 terrain, which means they can go up level 1 hills. Arg, yea that was a brainfart on my part sorry.
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Jan 24, 2011 06:20
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Ah poo poo, that means it can break out at 0910 and 1009 so we have to wax it this turn, otherwise the pain begins. Edit: Yeah, we are screwed unless we kill this hovercraft this turn, so I need your backup Pladdicus.
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Jan 24, 2011 06:20
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Cthulhu Dreams posted:Ah poo poo, that means it can break out at 0910 and 1009 so we have to wax it this turn, otherwise the pain begins. It probably won't retreat unless we really hurt it, this is Kurita. And if we really hurt it, it probably -can't- retreat and will go all out for glory. I think. Edit: Either way, lets kill the sumbitch this turn.
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Jan 24, 2011 06:22
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The goal is to take out at least one of them this turn, so focus on that, depending what happens next turn, we may have to shift so i'd take the shots you can now that uses the best targeting to whoever we can.
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Jan 24, 2011 06:24
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Pladdicus posted:It probably won't retreat unless we really hurt it, this is Kurita. And if we really hurt it, it probably -can't- retreat and will go all out for glory. Those two squares, I think, let it get off the edge of the map before we can cut it off, which in a counter recon scenario is really bad. Edit: Actually we can both jump jet back and give him another round of what for. But yeah, lets shoot the poo poo out of him and hope the problem solves itself. Edit2: Can someone who knows the rules give me an idea of how bullet resistant these things are. What is my chance of a mobility kill or an actual kill per turn of firing? Cthulhu Dreams fucked around with this message at 06:26 on Jan 24, 2011 |
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Jan 24, 2011 06:24
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Cthulhu Dreams posted:Those two squares, I think, let it get off the edge of the map before we can cut it off, which in a counter recon scenario is really bad. The cool thing about hitting tanks, is even if we don't kill it this round, the odds are high we will A)Bust down its MP to like, 4. B)Immobilize it C)Stun the crew There is a D choice of all or some of the above. So, lets get into position and shoot, let the other two worry about the other tank.
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Jan 24, 2011 06:27
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So Poptarts, is pilot recruitment closed until next vote? Oh yeah, whats the red dot at the bottom right of the map represent? (sorry if it was explained earlier and I missed it.)
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Jan 24, 2011 07:09
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PoptartsNinja posted:level 1 hills. I have a ridiculous image of an MMO now. "Yeah I rolled a new hill last night. Right now I'm grinding some talus, just you know basic sedimentary stuff. I think I'm gonna go volcano spec though. You?" "Oh you know, still working on my river system. I have to capture five more tributaries before I get Flood."
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Jan 24, 2011 07:14
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AtlantisMantis posted:So Poptarts, is pilot recruitment closed until next vote? That's my color-swatch for the Kurita 'mechs. If we were fighting Capellans, it'd be a green dot, blue for Lyrans, purple for Free Worlders, etc.
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Jan 24, 2011 07:21
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Arglebargle III posted:I have a ridiculous image of an MMO now. "Yeah I rolled a new hill last night. Right now I'm grinding some talus, just you know basic sedimentary stuff. I think I'm gonna go volcano spec though. You?" "Oh you know, still working on my river system. I have to capture five more tributaries before I get Flood."  I'd love to see someone try that, and make it work. I'd probably play the hell out of it.
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Jan 24, 2011 07:22
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Dux Supremus posted:If you think that's amazing, you should read about the greatest weapon ever. It's the only thing I've ever heard of that was cancelled for being "too provocative." It was likely cancelled because it wasn't terribly practical in the real world. You're going to have to fly it over some allied (or at least neutral) territory to get it there, and even if you leave it circling the country while you wait, an unshielded nuclear reactor flying around at 100,000 feet is probably going to kill more people than the missile itself will when detonated. Irradiating an entire country (and in the case of Russia, most of a continent)is just a bit of overkill.
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Jan 24, 2011 07:44
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Zaodai posted:It was likely cancelled because it wasn't terribly practical in the real world. You're going to have to fly it over some allied (or at least neutral) territory to get it there, and even if you leave it circling the country while you wait, an unshielded nuclear reactor flying around at 100,000 feet is probably going to kill more people than the missile itself will when detonated. e: You see, you're trying to imagine that you, post-Chernobyl, 50 years from the time this thing was proposed, have the same attitude that RAND Corp. and Strategic Air Command might have had, when they hardly had operational ICBMs. You don't. The reason why it was cancelled was even at Mach 3, it would take several hours to get to its target, instead of 15-20 minutes. It's not as efficient at killing people. That's why it was cancelled. Dux Supremus fucked around with this message at 08:05 on Jan 24, 2011 |
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Jan 24, 2011 07:57
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Dux Supremus posted:1000ft operating altitude. They considered flying it over the open ocean in holding patterns. The missile itself doesn't blow up. Radiation from an unshielded reactor is bad, but not as bad as a nuclear bomb, no. The Europeans were a bit antsy about the whole thing. It's pretty clear you didn't actually read what it said, and I'm going to say it again: 1960s. They didn't give a gently caress about overkill or radiation. Dr. Strangelove is a dark comedy and not a farce for a reason. If they truly didn't give a gently caress, nukes would have been used a lot more often. If they could have come up with a "clean" bomb with the same power, it's probably getting used more. Part of MAD is the fact that if you go around throwing a ton of radiation into the atmosphere and loving up the whole world, the people who would normally stand by on the sidelines are going to intervene too, as well as retaliation from your enemies. And you're right, I didn't read the link. Because I had read about the project previously. But you can be an arrogant dick if you want, I'm sure you're the resident expert on the mindset of the population of Earth in the 1960s.
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Jan 24, 2011 08:02
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So let me get this straight. You're thinking that if MAD goes into play, WWIII breaks out, and tens of thousands of nuclear bombs are going off, someone's really going to be concerned that some of them are getting there on a nuclear ramjet? I think the radiation output of the delivery mechanism relative to the total radiation output of the end of the world is, as far as strategic planning is concerned, negligible. Or that it would be for people who coined the term "megadeath" because they got tired of writing "millions of dead." But I'm clearly an arrogant dick who knows nothing about this material or the time period. Also, there were "clean" bombs. They were too expensive. It was really all about efficiency. Oh, and Greenpeace estimates 1945–1980 nuclear testing as being one Hiroshima bomb in atmosphere every 11 hours. There's your frequent use. e: So, how about that Battletech? Dux Supremus fucked around with this message at 08:31 on Jan 24, 2011 |
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Jan 24, 2011 08:23
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Yeah, as fun as this derailment has been, I'm afraid I need to ask you to find an appropriate place for it; since the Great Houses in Battletech don't have enough nuclear weapons left to glass a single planet, much less the 800+ worlds that make up the Inner Sphere.
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Jan 24, 2011 08:31
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