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i'm going to run so i can get behind that lvl 1 and then unload on some jenner scrap. the Hussar we are going against btw:  A very old scout design that didn't make the transition to "modern" day well. Only a large laser and paper thin armor this thing can hit hard but only if you let it. Axe-man fucked around with this message at 06:28 on Jan 26, 2011 |
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Jan 26, 2011 06:24
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I was planning to take 1809! I bet my kick is better!
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Jan 26, 2011 06:26
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Axe-man posted:i'm going to run so i can get behind that lvl 1 and then unload on some jenner scrap. Perhaps I should do the old leap over to the Hussar and give it the whatfor?
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Jan 26, 2011 06:34
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Pladdicus posted:Perhaps I should do the old leap over to the Hussar and give it the whatfor? the jenner is more dangerous, one large laser (8 damage) verus: 4 medium (20 damage)+ SRM 4(8) = 28 max on an alpha, the Hussar also doesn't have jump jets, meaning it will ironically end up being in the back. edit: opps was thinking of a clan Large laser Axe-man fucked around with this message at 07:06 on Jan 26, 2011 |
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Jan 26, 2011 06:37
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Axe-man posted:the jenner is more dangerous, one large laser (10 damage)verus: 4 medium (20 damage)+ SRM 4(8) = 28 max on an alpha, the Hussar also doesn't have jump jets, meaning it will ironically end up being in the back. Is there any reason to jumpjet when I can just run?
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Jan 26, 2011 06:44
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Pladdicus posted:Is there any reason to jumpjet when I can just run? no not really, i would not jump jet in this case, cause that would allow you to get more shots in or sink more heat also that -1 to your dice roll for just running (2 verus 3) will help out
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Jan 26, 2011 06:46
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Do you have to be facing them directly to kick? Or does pivot count. Edit:Nevermind. Front three hexes.
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Jan 26, 2011 06:57
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Axe-man posted:i'm going to run so i can get behind that lvl 1 and then unload on some jenner scrap. Legend goes that this used to be a hovertank design, until someone told the artist that they were short one mech. So, legs and arms were haphazardly added. Also, large lasers are 8 damage.
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Jan 26, 2011 07:04
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Der Waffle Mous posted:Legend goes that this used to be a hovertank design, until someone told the artist that they were short one mech. I can believe that. That looks seriously unbalanced... not in a "this is statistically overpowered for its weight class" way, more like "a good, stiff breeze will knock this thing over" way. 
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Jan 26, 2011 07:12
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Axe-man posted:the jenner is more dangerous, one large laser (8 damage) verus: 4 medium (20 damage)+ SRM 4(8) = 28 max on an alpha, the Hussar also doesn't have jump jets, meaning it will ironically end up being in the back. It really depends, that large laser is doing all 8 damage to one point if it hits, compared to the mediums (probably) doing 5 damage to several different locations (and 2 points per SRM that hits, also to random locations). There's something to be said for penetration even if the 'total' firepower potential is lower.
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Jan 26, 2011 07:12
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Don't forget that the jenner can cause a PSR on the off chance it hits with all of its weapons.
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Jan 26, 2011 07:38
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Axe-man posted:
I dig this plan for the most part, although I would have A move closer to D as support. D might be lucky enough to drop the Spider or the Hussar, but if not there's going to be a very big target on their chest. Quick rule question though, while I understand the concept of High ground from a tactical mindset, wouldn't having a multi-story mech standing on a hill make it a better target, ergo incredibly incredibly vulnerable? The reason I ask is in theory I support Zaodai's suggestion that D move to 808 as opposed to next to the Spider but it doesn't seem like a huge improvement to the situation. Some clarification would be appreciated.
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Jan 26, 2011 07:56
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Arglebargle III posted:I believe the ultimate death of a fictional universe is to become small. When everything is accounted for, when there's nothing around the next corner, that's when a fiction dies. That's why Warhammer 40K is such an excellent setting, not because of the grimdark or the awful writers and stories, but simply because it succeeds in being BIG. Say what you want about Warmhammer 40K, there's no way to run out of stories in a setting that takes size, distance, and diversity so seriously. Conversely, this is not a problem the Republic helps for two reasons. One, they have a magic shield that closes out part of the Sphere for everyone else And more importantly, two, one of the novels did a 100-year flash forward so now we know in the end the Republic wins.
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Jan 26, 2011 09:49
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Yay! I'm glad my suggestion on the previous turn won out in the end (even if you guys came to your decisions independently). Now that the enemy light mechs are close you can truly abuse your initiative advantage. Probably the most important thing now is positioning and facing. Remember how weapon arcs and hit location facings work and you should be keep the Kurita mehcs from firing more than a shot or two at you. The main choice to make now is whether to focus on the jenner or the two other light mechs. The one thing to take into account which I don't think I saw mentioned is that while the spider and hussar can shoot at most of the hexes around the jenner with no penalties the reverse is not true. If you can shoot at the other mechs and deny the jenner any shot that might be worth doing. Axe-man posted:Yeah that would be a good thing to do, that spider is very low powered but that hussar can pack a wallop, if it can hit. Honestly, if D can get a hull down position and attack the hussar too, i'd be happiest, we prolly have only one turn to take out the jenner though before it starts flanking hard and fast You keep mentioning hull-down so please remember that standing requires a piloting roll (doesn't fall if he fails but eats precious MP). Only 4 legged mechs can stand for free (minus the MP cost of course). Hull down is also an advanced rule from tac ops so not sure if poptarts wants to use it. Renaissance Spam posted:Quick rule question though, while I understand the concept of High ground from a tactical mindset, wouldn't having a multi-story mech standing on a hill make it a better target, ergo incredibly incredibly vulnerable? The reason I ask is in theory I support Zaodai's suggestion that D move to 808 as opposed to next to the Spider but it doesn't seem like a huge improvement to the situation. Some clarification would be appreciated. Mechs on higher ground can ignore partial cover modifiers. It also means they're able to shoot over obstructions due to how the LOS rules work in normal rules. None of that really applies here for D on 0808 but it might matter for the other mechs. Longinus00 fucked around with this message at 10:22 on Jan 26, 2011 |
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Jan 26, 2011 09:52
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Longinus00 posted:You keep mentioning hull-down so please remember that standing requires a piloting roll (doesn't fall if he fails but eats precious MP). Only 4 legged mechs can stand for free (minus the MP cost of course). Hull down is also an advanced rule from tac ops so not sure if poptarts wants to use it. force of habit, I'm use to long battles of attrition and defensive skirmishes with decent pilots and gunners versus amazing pilots and gunners so every +1 was vital to not doing a character reroll, but you are right, partial cover would be best, either from behind a hill or in thick trees. We will have to see how the rolls go, and we have no idea the gunnery for the hussar 
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Jan 26, 2011 12:22
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Couple of questions A) Where do I have to stand to get a rear shot on someone? I'm particularly thinking firing into the spiders rear armour vs the hussars side armour. I know the hussar is a much bigger threat, but if I can kill the spider rather than damage the hussar that's a big win B) Is there any particular advantage to firing from 1 square rather than 3 squares away other than being able to kick (my Jenner has no arms and would have to stand on a lower Z level than the hostile mechs, so it would have to be a to-hit bonus. I'm tempted to get into the rear armor of the spider and see if I can waste it or critically damage it in one turn.
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Jan 26, 2011 13:25
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So the rough plan is for the Vulcan and Blackjack to gang up on the Jenner while our Jenner tries to distract both the Hussar and the Spider? Makes good enough sense to me- I'd rather have all three of our mechs targeting one, since I am allergic to splitting forces enough that having the Griffin and Dragon dueling already makes me twitchy, but I can see the reasoning.
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Jan 26, 2011 13:42
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I'm just not sure how I can get a good shot on the Jenner in a manner that doesn't mean I'll eat a bunch of dangerous return fire. If I go behind K1 and K2, I can just jump away behind the south hill if they turn around.
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Jan 26, 2011 13:46
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Cthulhu Dreams posted:I'm just not sure how I can get a good shot on the Jenner in a manner that doesn't mean I'll eat a bunch of dangerous return fire. If I go behind K1 and K2, I can just jump away behind the south hill if they turn around. What about a jump to 1107? You'd be in woods and screened by another, and IIRC their altitude won't cancel either of those benefits out making you hard to hit, especially combined with a jump of five hexes.
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Jan 26, 2011 14:04
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Yeah, I considered that plan - I like it because of the 10+ to hit roll they will need, but I think my heat situation will be pretty bad, plus I think I will need a very difficult roll to hit - 4 + 3 jumping + 2 medium range + 2 from the Jenners movement for a total to hit of 11. Only a 1/12 chance of hitting with a weapon, so only a 35% chance of landing a hit. If I walk up behind the spider, I have 4 + 1 for walking +2 for their movement for hitting on sevens, which means I will likely land 2-3 hits, and maybe get lucky. Does that make sense? Are those numbers right? Can I do significant damage to the spider with one salvo like that? Cthulhu Dreams fucked around with this message at 14:22 on Jan 26, 2011 |
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Jan 26, 2011 14:19
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I'd like to go on the pilot roster, if that's OK.
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Jan 26, 2011 14:42
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Cthulhu Dreams posted:Yeah, I considered that plan - I like it because of the 10+ to hit roll they will need, but I think my heat situation will be pretty bad, plus I think I will need a very difficult roll to hit - 4 + 3 jumping + 2 medium range + 2 from the Jenners movement for a total to hit of 11. Only a 1/12 chance of hitting with a weapon, so only a 35% chance of landing a hit. I'm at work so i can't actually see the grid anymore but you sound like i thought you would do, there is no real difference between being 3 squares away and 1 away, other than physical attacks and you may move more or less squares.
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Jan 26, 2011 16:00
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A note on physical attacks: if they're one level higher than you, you can't kick them. If they're one level lower, you can't punch them. If they're two levels high or lower, you can't melee them at all (unless you want to intentionally fall on them).
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Jan 26, 2011 16:40
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^^^^ Which can be HILLARIOUS. One game I played in a mech slipped on concrete running down a hill, skidded a stupid number of hexes and fell about eight levels landing on another mech. It was amazing. Best part was my mech survived it, and his got a mashed cockpit. Cthulhu Dreams posted:Yeah, I considered that plan - I like it because of the 10+ to hit roll they will need, but I think my heat situation will be pretty bad, plus I think I will need a very difficult roll to hit - 4 + 3 jumping + 2 medium range + 2 from the Jenners movement for a total to hit of 11. Only a 1/12 chance of hitting with a weapon, so only a 35% chance of landing a hit. quote:12: 1/36 = 0.028 As you can see, the middle of the table is HUGELY affected by + or -1, while the extreme ends aren't really all that bothered. The difference between a 2 and a 4 is really not at all significant, while the difference between 7 and 8 is several times larger. 11's are unlikely to hit, but worth taking sometimes. Arquinsiel fucked around with this message at 16:43 on Jan 26, 2011 |
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Jan 26, 2011 16:41
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Renaissance Spam posted:Quick rule question though, while I understand the concept of High ground from a tactical mindset, wouldn't having a multi-story mech standing on a hill make it a better target, ergo incredibly incredibly vulnerable? The reason I ask is in theory I support Zaodai's suggestion that D move to 808 as opposed to next to the Spider but it doesn't seem like a huge improvement to the situation. Some clarification would be appreciated. My logic for suggesting 0808 was that 1) It gives you a clearer shot at whoever ends up standing on the hill at 1009 trying to take potshots at B & C, and 2) it puts you slightly further "out" to make it harder for their light mechs to split up and do an end around on all of you. 0807 would be a more defensive position and provide most of the same benefits, but not as advantageous a shooting position for the upcoming turn. Also, whoever suggested that K2 and K1 have to worry about our Griffin in support: They don't really. Our Griffin is dueling their Dragon, which presumably means it can't fire on any of the other enemy mechs without voiding the duel (possibly) or allowing the enemy mech to enter the duel as well (if it's Clan rules).
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Jan 26, 2011 16:46
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PoptartsNinja posted:A note on physical attacks: if they're one level higher than you, you can't kick them. If they're one level lower, you can't punch them. If they're two levels high or lower, you can't melee them at all (unless you want to intentionally fall on them). On the other hand, if they're one level lower, you're going to be doing your kick damage on the punch hit location table. And doing that much damage on a table where you have a 1 in 6 chance to hit the head is a pretty big thing.
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Jan 26, 2011 16:50
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Present status: waiting on clarifications for two people's movement. Looks like the Jenner's really going to take a pounding.
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Jan 26, 2011 17:16
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PoptartsNinja posted:Present status: waiting on clarifications for two people's movement. Which Jenner? 
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Jan 26, 2011 17:18
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You'd really like to know that, wouldn't you? 
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Jan 26, 2011 17:21
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KnoxZone posted:Which Jenner? Bruce Jenner. The Combine's decathlon team is going to whoop up on him now that he's roughly 1200 years old.
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Jan 26, 2011 17:23
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Arquinsiel posted:Your maths is wrong: Not to start a nerdwar, but this does not represent probability accurately. The difference between a 12 and an 11 is ~8% and ~3%, which makes for a 300% change due to a 1-point differential. It's a 200% change from 11 to 10 and only a 60% change from 10 to 9. So, actually, that 1-point differential is much more important at the high end than the low end (and that's without modeling the value of impossible to highly unlikely.
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Jan 26, 2011 17:57
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TildeATH posted:Not to start a nerdwar, but this does not represent probability accurately. It's all relative, maaaaaan! Improving your to-hit odds by +1 from 11+ to 10+ doubles your odds of hitting. However, if you fire 100 times, the increase will only give you ~8 additional hits (8.3 to 16.7). Improving your to-hit odds from 8+ to 7+ will only improve your odds by ~30%, but will give you ~16 additional hits on 100 shots (41.7 to 58.3). Thus- depending on how you want to define better- you could state either way that a +1 to skill means more at the high end or the low end depending on whether or not you care about a relative or absolute increase. There. Hopefully that will head off the argument at the pass- you're both right depending on semantics.  edit: Oh god what am I saying this is Something Awful home of the worst debate ever (0.99... vs 1, runner up plane on treadmill) that could be efficiently ended by being clear about what the question was, WHAT HAVE I DONE Mukaikubo fucked around with this message at 18:15 on Jan 26, 2011 |
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Jan 26, 2011 18:13
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So I say you should just shoot them until they explode. That works.
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Jan 26, 2011 18:25
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Tempest_56 posted:So I say you should just shoot them until they explode. my gm had a saying when we all got math on him and pulled out the graphing calculators and graphs on where the point on the board should be due to this correlation between being hit and making the shot it was: "Just roll the drat dice"
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Jan 26, 2011 18:39
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Oh, as a note, the next history update is on hold. As it covers most of the Clan Invasion, I'm not planning on talking about what actually went down until we see the Clans in action here. I want all the newbies to SEE just what Clan Battlemechs are like in battle before I get into why the invasion was such a huge goddamn deal.
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Jan 26, 2011 18:41
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If you'd like, I could set up a quick one-off 'trial of position'... but that'd sorta dilute the "OHGODWHAT?!" I'd like everyone to feel. ... So, since nobody chose the Gray Death Legion, I may force us to play a mission with them as part of the Kell Hounds Cylene campaign.
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Jan 26, 2011 18:43
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Axe-man posted:my gm had a saying when we all got math on him and pulled out the graphing calculators and graphs on where the point on the board should be due to this correlation between being hit and making the shot it was: If you can't do the math for your target number vs their target number in your head, you haven't played enough Battletech. 
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Jan 26, 2011 18:43
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PoptartsNinja posted:If you'd like, I could set up a quick one-off 'trial of position'... but that'd sorta dilute the "OHGODWHAT?!" I'd like everyone to feel. Yeah, no, save it for the completely unprepared reaction. I want to SAVOR people's first look at the sheer, unmitigated terror that a Star of Omnis can be.
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Jan 26, 2011 18:44
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Kenlon posted:If you can't do the math for your target number vs their target number in your head, you haven't played enough Battletech. To hit percentages? Psha, you should be doing damage expectation values (which, coincidentally, will answer the discussion above about where a +1 is more useful).
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Jan 26, 2011 18:46
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Agent Interrobang posted:Yeah, no, save it for the completely unprepared reaction. I want to SAVOR people's first look at the sheer, unmitigated terror that a Star of Omnis can be. Sweet christ yes. In fact, I am going to lobby hard for Comstar to be our 3rd or so faction, or maybe even 2nd; after we get word of some advanced force kicking rear end on the periphery, Comguard saddles up to go deal with the situation all smug with their Star League equipment and they get utterly jobbed too. Especially if our beating is what prompts the First Circuit to start opening the warehouses in utter panic after seeing their best manhandled.  edit: You know, maybe it would be better for us to get spanked with completely straight 3025 tech first. I have to think about this. Mukaikubo fucked around with this message at 18:50 on Jan 26, 2011 |
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Jan 26, 2011 18:47
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