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I was also going to suggest you walk them separately. I understand the mechanics of it may be difficult or impossible, but at least while you're working on the toughest points of Pi's reactivity maybe look into alternatives to the walk. Bones, frozen raw food, other chews, puzzle toys, nosework, treat hunts, etc are all pretty good at keeping a dog busy for a while. I'm not saying don't walk him at all, but maybe shorter walks plus these alternatives will make it so you're not out walking your dogs 4 hours a day. My training school really pushes the Gentle Leaders, but I suspect that's because they have some sort of agreement with the distribution company. They attach to the leash where the dog's chin meets its neck, so there doesn't look like they'll torque the neck too much. But Canny Collars and Sporn Collars attach behind the ears, which seems a bit safer to me. I use a Easywalk Harness with Cohen and am pleased with it, but I don't love it. It has a martingale-like part in the front where you attach the leash -- it's supposed to apply pressure if a dog pulls. But I find it just ends up hanging open kind of awkwardly. Aesthetically, it looks kind of messy. But it works nicely. (I'm honestly not too sure why I bought one for Cohen. She walks just fine. I just wanted to try something new, and apparently I had $30 burning a hole in my pocket. I think I wanted to get her off a traditional collar to let her fur grow in properly. Vanity!) Pi is probably feeling more vulnerable with his bad eye. Maybe make a point of positioning him so his good eye is on the side of any approaching dog. It might stress him out less if he's less aware of his new blind spot. And as always switch up your treats often. I'm currently using Rollover and dehydrated tripe. Previously I was using cheese and ham.
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Jan 25, 2011 16:31
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a life less posted:I was also going to suggest you walk them separately. I understand the mechanics of it may be difficult or impossible, but at least while you're working on the toughest points of Pi's reactivity maybe look into alternatives to the walk. I'm going to recommend this as well. Kaidan gets overaroused around dogs on walks and Eris does as well but only if Kaidan starts it (as she largely feeds off of his energy). It took us a long time to realize this because Kaidan does make noise when he does it, it starts with just body language then Eris gets excited/whiny/pully/waggy (I WANNA PLAY WITH THAT DOG LETS PLAY LETS PLAY) then Kaidan freaks out. It's been 6-8 months and we still haven't gotten to a point where we can comfortably walk them together yet. Eris by herself is a sweetheart and does great with distractions, and Kaidan's getting better by the week so much so that he surprises me sometimes with how good he is but try as we might things go rapidly downhill when they're together on walks. I know it's a bit different for you (also, I was upset to hear about Pi the other week, your dogs are awesome, and I really hope he pulls through okay), but I thought I'd throw in my situation.
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Jan 25, 2011 17:47
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Yeah you're all exactly right and I need to take them for walks separately. When Rho was a puppy, we took them separately for six months or so and after that it kind of got better - not perfect, but good enough for them to focus on treats if you didn't pass the other dogs too close. Now it seems to me that Rho is the one who loses it first, Pi might not even notice the other dog at a distance. However it's Pi who lunges and behaves more aggressively when he notices the other dog. Walking them separately or during the day when there's less dogs around will work for now, but might be too much for me in a couple of weeks when I start at my new job. We'll see. Thanks for all the concern and advice, it helps to talk about this 
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Jan 25, 2011 18:09
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So I think my newly adopted dog might be dog reactive/agressive but I'm not sure how to comfortably test her boundaries. The woman we adopted her from said she was "great" with other dogs, then admitted during the meeting that our girl gets agressive towards her other dog during feeding time but stressed that it was only around bowls of food. However, when driving home, we were stopped next to another car with a dog in the back seat, and she started growling and barking! The window was cracked, so we had to react and pull her head back in. Every time when driving that she saw a dog outside, she starts growling and barking and will watch it until it's out of sight. We're working on being very calm and soothing and trying not to react much so it's not encouraged. We haven't walked her near other dogs yet- she's very big, and very strong, and her walks before were rare and involved a choke chain and a lot of leash popping. She pulls incredibly hard. We're walking back and forth in front of the house and working on relieving that pulling. How would I go about introducing her to other dogs and guaging/fixing that reactivity? When walking, she is SO excited to be out in the world we can't get her to notice treats so we can't stuff them in her mouth. Should we just keep working on polite walking and getting her focus on us, then increase her exposure to the world? As for breed, we're pretty sure she's part Ridgeback, but maybe some Pit Bull, GSD, big brown dog mix. I don't want her to explode so here! 
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Jan 25, 2011 18:21
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Gonktastic posted:So I think my newly adopted dog might be dog reactive/agressive but I'm not sure how to comfortably test her boundaries. The woman we adopted her from said she was "great" with other dogs, then admitted during the meeting that our girl gets agressive towards her other dog during feeding time but stressed that it was only around bowls of food. Definitely work on not pulling during walks and getting her to focus on you and remember that it will take some time for your dog to settle in and get over the excitement of a new place. It definitely sounds like the change in location has resulted in reactivity toward dogs, which may or may not be a huge deal. When you say barking and growling is it more excited barking and growling or do you see signs of aggression or fear, such as hackles raised, ears in a strange position (not sure what floppy ears do in these situations), tail tucked, rigidness, etc (someone else can maybe help with signs, I only know them in my dog). If it is the former, then you need to find something that is more exciting than the other dog. All of this will be a lot easier if you have a doggie friend volunteer to stand in the distance and look boring. Then find the treat or toy or game that your dog LOVES. Trust me, it exists. Treats will be the most effective I think so try everything. Then when you find the MOST AWESOME TREAT EVER, show your dog the other dog, find the distance at which your dog will eat, and then proceed to stuff her mouth and see if that helps. Then in later sessions you can try moving a little closer, do parallel walking and all sorts of other exercises that desensitize dogs to other dogs. If you think that your dog is fearful/aggressive, then you have to approach it a little more slowly. If you have a doggie friend, then find a big loving field, preferably with a barrier (a car, a tree, whatever) that you can put between you and the other dog and then try the exercise starting at a great distance. Be aware that an overly fearful dog who reacts in an aggressive manner can possibly redirect onto you and bite you so take it nice and slow and don't stand between your dog and the other dog. Being calm and soothing is definitely the right thing to do. Try not to yank on the leash when other dogs are around and, if you work with a doggie friend, never send the other dog away when your dog is reacting or she will think that her reaction got rid of the big scary thing. Wait until she is calm (even for a split second...it's a good thing to read up on calming signals so you know when your dog is calming down) and then you can give her release by walking away a bit. The rest of this thread talks more about counter-conditioning and desensitization, but if things are bad or escalate and this all seems overwhelming, then please find a local positive reinforcement trainer in your area. Having someone to actually be there and see your dog so that you can customize your training and have a professional point out what's good and what's not is invaluable.
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Jan 25, 2011 19:04
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Thanks so much for that! Honestly I'm not positive if it was more excitement or fear - she's still figuring out how this "play" thing works. Floppy ears seem to just move back further on her head. I'll take all the advice and keep working! I really wanted to make sure we're doing the right thing, since you can read FAQ's for hours and still be uncertain. We don't really have any friends with dogs, as we're the first to grow up and get a house it seems. I don't think practicing on strangers is as good an idea but I'll ask around to see if anyone will help work with us. She's super smart and very trainable, which is great! In only a day and a half, we've gotten her to sit and stay while we open the door and step outside, and doesn't move until we invite her out. She's also gotten good at respecting the boundaries we've set- she stops at the kitchen door and doesn't come in (although she's snuck in a few times so obviously that needs more reinforcement) and doesn't go upstairs unless we invite her. She's been very bored and understimulated for her whole life so this is all a bit overwhelming. The pet store was totally sold out, so we're waiting on a front-clasp halter to show up to continue working on walking politely. With the standard collar she just throws herself forward and gasps and chokes and we want to change the sensation since she's use to choking while walking. Time to take lots of pictures and post them to the mutt thread so everyone can speculate on what's in her 
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Jan 25, 2011 19:50
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Gonktastic posted:Thanks so much for that! Honestly I'm not positive if it was more excitement or fear - she's still figuring out how this "play" thing works. Floppy ears seem to just move back further on her head. She's sounds great! I love smart dogs. We didn't have any friends with dogs around either and you can only do so much with strangers (basically watch them from a distance and hope you can get some training in while they're in sight), so we found a trainer and joined her classes so that Psyche could get some constructive time with other dogs and that we could learn what we needed to do. If it's just excitement, then as soon as you find something more exciting to get her attention, you should have no trouble showing her how you want her to act. Front clasp harnesses are pretty great. My dog also pulls at her collar until she's choking herself. Dumb dog. We might move to a back clasp harness someday to teach her not to pull ever, but I doubt we'll ever just have her by the collar again.
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Jan 25, 2011 20:00
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Kiri koli posted:She's sounds great! I love smart dogs. Thanks again for the advice. I'm pretty sure sausage and/or peanut butter filled pretzels are some crack-like doggy treats.
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Jan 25, 2011 20:14
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a life less posted:
I'm late but I use an easywalk too. Major pulls and will lunge at a certain dog he hates but easywalk has held up and makes him much easier to control. He's 75 lbs of pure muscle but he hasn't been able to knock me down with it. It does have some issues with regards to fit though. I have to clip it to his regular collar with a carabiner or else he sometimes steps through the front because it sags. I've heard putting it on upside down can help too. I've also heard that the new "eco" line is flimsier so don't go with that. The vet behaviorist sometimes recommended head halters for anxious dogs not to use as a LLWing aid but as a relaxation aid. I guess it puts pressure on certain points that calm some dogs down. She said it doesn't work with every dog but it helps maybe 3-4 dogs a year.
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Jan 25, 2011 21:26
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Instant Jellyfish posted:The vet behaviorist sometimes recommended head halters for anxious dogs not to use as a LLWing aid but as a relaxation aid. I guess it puts pressure on certain points that calm some dogs down. She said it doesn't work with every dog but it helps maybe 3-4 dogs a year. Yes, this is what we were told by our trainer as well. This and putting pressure around their middle such as with a thundershirt. The head halter seems to work as a calming aid for Psyche now that she's used to it. It just served to subdue her when we first started though and she hated the gentle leader so much that I almost gave up on it entirely.
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Jan 25, 2011 21:32
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Does anyone else read Dr. Yin's blog? She posted an interesting article on the effects of shock collar use today. She also has some really good responses to the comments. In the study they found that dogs trained with a shock collar compared to dogs trained with other positive punishment techniques (choke chains, prong collars, even kicking/hitting the dogs) show more stress and fear signals in response to the corrections and even just in the area where training usually takes place. It showed that the use of the collar is not just "like a tap on the shoulder" like many proponents of shock collars claim.
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Jan 25, 2011 22:11
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 My progress! So Spirit has been doing much much better about pulling, for the most part. And then on today's walk, 3 deer walked by. Now, it was my fault for not immediately turning around when I saw the deer, but they were so close and so pretty that I watched them for a bit. Spirit, however, went loving nuts. She wanted to go see the deer SO BAD, plenty of pulling and lunging and no amount of "Come" or "Turn around" or "Leave it" or treat jingling would get her attention so eventually I just moved to body block her and dragged her down the sidewalk. And then just as we got all settled down from the deer (which took forever) an owl flew right out a bush she was sniffing and got her all riled up again. Well the walk was shot after that. 45 minutes of her being an rear end. Back to square one 
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Jan 26, 2011 00:42
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That thing I sent posted:Back to square one You're definitely not back to square one. When dogs get excited to that level the adrenaline is pumping and, depending on the situation, stress hormones are produced. It takes some time (sometimes days) for these chemicals to work their way out of your dog's system. Stay consistent. Loose leash walking is one of the very hardest things you'll ever teach your dog, and it will take months. Even my dog will resort to pulling when she gets too amped up, and I've been working with her for a year and a half. Some days are better than others. Try your best to ignore the bad and celebrate all your small milestones.
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Jan 26, 2011 02:18
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That thing I sent posted:
Dude, my dog broke a collar and three leashes chasing turkey before he gained any semblance of self control. You're not starting back at the beginning you just have further to go yet. It'll be fine
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Jan 26, 2011 02:26
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a life less posted:You're definitely not back to square one. Thanks for that I just got frustrated because she'd been doing so good, then a bit of wildlife walks by and she totally forgot everything because she was all wiggly wanting to go and see them. Admittedly it was pretty cool to see that owl, which sat on a branch right over my head - so pretty. And she is also getting good at "turn around" when there's not deer walking right infront of her, where she'll do a 180 on the spot. She doesn't come back to me, but she does turn! She really is getting better!Months though? Thank god I'm starting now before more people get out and about as the weather gets nicer so hopefully we'll have a good foundation when there's lots of people around.
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Jan 26, 2011 02:30
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Thought I'd let you guys know that I got a copy of "Through A Dog's Ear" just in time for the latest thunder storm. We did the usual walking/feeding/playing routine. Before my husband and I left, we loaded the crate with treats and left the CD playing. When I got home, Majel was wagging her tail and not cowering in a pile of poo poo. No mess in the kennel! Looks like I found my solution!  And another question - Majel is learning "sit" but I'm having a hard time teaching her "stay." She'll focus on the pocket where the treats are stored and as soon as I walk two or three steps back her butt pops up and she comes running. When I tell her to stay her big floppy ears move up and she sits again and I step away and it's the same process. I space the training sessions out into three 15 minutes periods a day (yes, I use a clicker) and I've been going through "stay" for about a week now with little progress. The sessions take place in the living room with no other animals or people around to minimize distractions. I'm annoyed because Sadie and Tara have learned to stay in less than a week. Is there a magical secret to getting a stubborn Beagle to stay or is it all practice?
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Jan 26, 2011 12:54
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MissConduct posted:And another question - Majel is learning "sit" but I'm having a hard time teaching her "stay." Stay is easy. Stay means the dog just has to sit there and wait for its treat! A lot of people rush the stay, and our body language, as well as the dog's natural inclination to want to be right by our pocket of food can work against us. The way we teach this at my school is like this. You have the dog sitting at heel to your left. You've previously set this up as a reinforcement zone, and the dog is starting to understand that if it just hangs out by your left hip and pays attention to you, it will be rewarded. The hand signal for stay is a hand gently passed over the dog's field of vision. You don't have to use a violent hand gesture, or scream the command (a lot of people feel they have to be "authoritative" for a stay, but it's not the case). Then you just stand there... with the dog on your left. After about a second, click and reward! The dog stayed! Do this 3-4 times, just standing there and rewarding quickly for not moving. If the dog gets up gently but firmly plant her bum back where it was without saying anything (you've already given the sit cue, no need to repeat yourself). Don't lure or anything -- just be very no-nonsense about it. Odds are the dog isn't going to be getting up since you're just standing there anyways. Once you've patterned your dog to the hand signal and just keeping the butt planted for a reward, you can start adding movement, but just a tiny bit at first. Try taking a step in front of your dog, then RETURN. It's important to return so the dog understands that a stay always means a stay, not a stay and then a come. Then you can add your release word if you want (an "okay" or a "break" etc) to indicate to your dog the exercise is over. If you could take a step without the dog getting up, congrats, she's starting to get it. If she did get up, try it 1-2 more times and she if she gets it. If she continues to mess up you've gone too fast and you're going to have to make it more simple for her. Go back to the stay without you moving, then maybe try pointing one foot forward as if you're about to go somewhere, then bring it back in and reward. Break the process of walking away into teeny tiny little bits and reward like crazy for particularly good behaviour. The three Ds of training are distance, duration and distraction. Work on one at a time. If you're adding distance, minimize distractions and keep it short. If you're working on duration, don't go too far, and again, minimize distractions. Eventually you'll be able to put all three together, but not yet. Just try some trouble shooting. If the dog has been getting up after taking 3 steps away, start only traveling 2 steps. You want your dog to get the reward, and you want to set them up to succeed. MissConduct posted:as soon as I walk two or three steps back her butt pops up and she comes running. If she starts doing this frequently it's called patterning, and she's thinking that's what she's supposed to do even if she's not getting rewarded for it. Try to only let good behaviour pattern. Either take a break (while ending your training session on a high note with an easy sit or something) or again break down the exercise and make it easier. I hope that makes sense. Whew. Too much typing.
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Jan 26, 2011 14:46
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MissConduct posted:Thought I'd let you guys know that I got a copy of "Through A Dog's Ear" just in time for the latest thunder storm. Yay! They say it has a scientific basis but I swear its crazy voodoo magic.
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Jan 26, 2011 15:56
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a life less posted:The three Ds of training are distance, duration and distraction. Work on one at a time. If you're adding distance, minimize distractions and keep it short. If you're working on duration, don't go too far, and again, minimize distractions. Eventually you'll be able to put all three together, but not yet.
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Jan 26, 2011 17:14
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I want to work on having my dog sit and watch me when another dog approaches. I was thinking of taking him to a local dog park/trail later today, when there won't be a lot of dogs. I plan on keeping him on leash, but I'm worried that another dog will get in his face, triggering his aggressive response. With the trainer, we've been using her dogs so far, and she calls them away from him after the initial approach. Since I won't have that guarantee with strange dogs, is there something else I could do? Or should I keep off taking him to the park until he's had more training? I don't want to jeopardize our efforts, but I thought if everything goes well it could be a really good thing for him.
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Jan 26, 2011 19:32
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Emasculatrix posted:I want to work on having my dog sit and watch me when another dog approaches. I was thinking of taking him to a local dog park/trail later today, when there won't be a lot of dogs. I plan on keeping him on leash, but I'm worried that another dog will get in his face, triggering his aggressive response. You will probably get a better response from someone like a life less, but I can add in a little bit here because this is exactly what my wife and I have been working on with our golden retriever puppy (10 months), just with people more-so than dogs. How is your focus training as it stands with just you and the dog? You'll need to have that down pat before you bother trying to mix in what amounts to an enormous and mouth-watering distraction. Our command word for this is "focus" and it means look at me and wait for me to prompt you. We did this starting pretty early on with low value treats to start -- we love Charlie Bears for this sort of thing. We would get her attention by waving the treat in her face, then marking whenever she looked us in the face (this can be the clicker, a marker word, whatever you use). She's still not perfect. If I have the treat in front of me, she will tend to stare at my hand rather than my eyes, but she's doing more or less what I want, which is waiting for my cue. If I place it behind my back, she looks me in the eye. Once you really have a good focus without distractions, start adding them in. We did something like what you're attempting to do for the first time last weekend. What we found after several other attempts is that, in the face of those delicious and exciting new people and potential friends, we needed an extremely high value treat to command her attention. We resorted to boiling some chicken breasts and cutting them up into small pieces. I recommend starting off at a distance and only getting closer if the dog is doing what you're looking for. Other people and dogs are going to be your big obstacles because they won't cooperate with your lesson plan. For this, I am working on training my wife to be less friendly and polite and shooing them away when appropriate. You may want to start off actually outside the dog park and just looking in from the outside, that way you have a physical barrier between your dog and the distractions.
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Jan 26, 2011 20:47
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MrFurious posted:I recommend starting off at a distance and only getting closer if the dog is doing what you're looking for. Other people and dogs are going to be your big obstacles because they won't cooperate with your lesson plan. For this, I am working on training my wife to be less friendly and polite and shooing them away when appropriate. You may want to start off actually outside the dog park and just looking in from the outside, that way you have a physical barrier between your dog and the distractions. Actually, this is exactly the kind of advice I was hoping for. Reading your post made me realize that I was rushing into things. I like your idea of going outside a dog park's fence. I'll give that a shot today instead. Thanks!
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Jan 26, 2011 21:35
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With the discussion about using a clicker vs. marker word etc. how come no one uses whistles like they do with Marine mammals? It seems like it'd be great to keep your hands free and a burst of air can be even faster than a finger press.
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Jan 26, 2011 22:06
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Saveremreve posted:With the discussion about using a clicker vs. marker word etc. how come no one uses whistles like they do with Marine mammals? It seems like it'd be great to keep your hands free and a burst of air can be even faster than a finger press. Our golden breeder actually whistle trained her dogs as well, but it's extremely specific and limited. She said she only had like 6 commands that she used, and I'll be honest, I don't remember all of them. I'm not sure exactly how I would go about whistle training, but she used it solely for hunting/gun dog trials. I would be kind of interested in training a long range/out of sight recall on the whistle though. That seems extremely useful. edit: I should clarify that she was using an actual whistle, not whistling with her mouth. Regarding marine mammals, I suspect it has a lot to do with hearing ranges and marine noises. They all communicate with whistles and tones, whereas dogs are much more domesticated and are used to the noises we make, even if we don't speak the same language. MrFurious fucked around with this message at 22:17 on Jan 26, 2011 |
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Jan 26, 2011 22:10
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e: ^ that makes a lot more sense I dont know how to whistle but I do use my tongue to click for my cockatiel and it works fine. You can forget your clicker but you can't forget your tongue! Malalol fucked around with this message at 22:18 on Jan 26, 2011 |
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Jan 26, 2011 22:12
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Saveremreve posted:With the discussion about using a clicker vs. marker word etc. how come no one uses whistles like they do with Marine mammals? It seems like it'd be great to keep your hands free and a burst of air can be even faster than a finger press. You can't talk and whistle at the same time. If you only use gesture commands that's fine, but if I tell my dog to sit, she may start sitting before I'm done saying the word and it's good to mark the behavior exactly as it starts to happen rather than after it's done. Edit: I do use whistling to get her attention, but I think it's faster and easier to click than to whistle*. For me anyway. Also, there are some exercises I do where I don't pay attention to the dog, but I click and treat for voluntary behaviors, like if I'm trying to teach her to lay down next me while I'm at my desk working. *Fun exercise: to teach people to use a clicker, they say to watch tv and click for some preselected behavior to improve your accuracy. Try doing this with whistling vs a clicker. I would bet that not only is the clicker easier and more accurate, but whistling will get tiresome and harder with time much faster than clicking. Kiri koli fucked around with this message at 23:01 on Jan 26, 2011 |
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Jan 26, 2011 22:52
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We've had some progress on the muzzle front. They are now fine wearing it while laying down or sitting and we're working on standing and walking - Oddjob still drags his nose along the ground to a degree but overall they're getting better. Dogs on the waterbus this morning. 
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Jan 27, 2011 00:55
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Emasculatrix posted:I want to work on having my dog sit and watch me when another dog approaches. I was thinking of taking him to a local dog park/trail later today, when there won't be a lot of dogs. I plan on keeping him on leash, but I'm worried that another dog will get in his face, triggering his aggressive response. Odds are a dog won't get in his face and trigger him to react if you can keep him calm and focused on you. Most dogs are intuitive enough to not approach dogs who are not showing them any attention, or giving stress signals. For instance, when mine wants space she'll either stick close by my side, or pretend to be preoccupied sniffing until the other dog passes. Of course this depends on your ability to keep your dog's attention, and the degree of his reactivity. The fence idea is a good one. Honestly, if I was worried about a reaction I would probably avoid meeting strange dogs until I was more confident. Always set your dog for success. You don't want to tip toe around his threshold in situations beyond your control. It sounds like your trainer is great -- it's nice that she can use her dogs for the exercises. How do you feel about the process?
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Jan 27, 2011 01:04
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iwik posted:We've had some progress on the muzzle front. We're working on muzzle training as well. Our trainer recommended that we go with a basket muzzle after we bought one of those, so we never used it. How do those muzzles work? Do they keep the dog's mouth closed? Can you feed them with those on?
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Jan 27, 2011 01:35
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Kiri koli posted:We're working on muzzle training as well. Our trainer recommended that we go with a basket muzzle after we bought one of those, so we never used it. How do those muzzles work? Do they keep the dog's mouth closed? Can you feed them with those on? I can't remember what brand we ended up with but it's a velcro muzzle with mesh undercarriage and clip strap. I think maybe Kramar? We had to try a few different brands to find one that worked with their faces. The velcro makes it adjustable to fit different noses, the various sizes of it correspond to the overall size and length. They can't open their mouths fully, but can still pant (see the sticky out tongue in the earlier picture), drink easily and I feed them small treats through the opening. They can't eat kibble because of the open mouth chew they do, but smaller treat things are ok. A size S modelled by Trillian. Opened up:  You have the option of setting it to the right size and sliding it over the nose, or just clip it on open (like a collar).  Then pull up and close as required.  We don't put it on too tight.
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Jan 27, 2011 02:25
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a life less posted:Odds are a dog won't get in his face and trigger him to react if you can keep him calm and focused on you. Most dogs are intuitive enough to not approach dogs who are not showing them any attention, or giving stress signals. For instance, when mine wants space she'll either stick close by my side, or pretend to be preoccupied sniffing until the other dog passes. Well, he was on leash in a busy street a few weeks ago, when a very friendly and energetic off-leash bully breed ran up to and got in his face several times. Even after Comet lunged at him, he came back for more abuse. This scared me a lot because there was nothing I could do, and its owners obviously weren't interested in keeping it away (or away from the cars, for that matter). I live in a very dog-friendly area, and Comet's favorite park is actually the largest enclosed dog park in the US. It has trails, a bridge, access to the bay, a coffee shop, and a groomer. So you have a lot of socialized dogs running around, many of whom are high energy and almost aggressively friendly, if that makes sense. I'm pretty impressed with the trainer. She brings a good 5 or so dogs with her to the lessons, including police dogs she's training. She seems to feel pretty confident while in control of Comet and her herd, although every time she unleashes a gigantic male Shepard I break out in a sweat from anxiety.
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Jan 27, 2011 03:28
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How do I train my child to... House clicker trains a child. Also, if anyone is interested, there's this CBC series called Dogs Themselves which is pretty interesting. It was featured in APDT's recent newsletter. It was forwarded to me by the head trainer at my school since they interviewed her, among many others. It's long -- 3 hours, all told. I've listened to about two and a half so far. So if you have a lot of time to kill, and like dog training, check it out.
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Jan 28, 2011 16:52
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a life less posted:How do I train my child to... There actually is a movement to use clicker training with people called TAGteach which I find fascinating. It seems to be used mostly in kids sports for teaching form. Here's a video with some cheesy music about it. Instant Jellyfish fucked around with this message at 17:00 on Jan 28, 2011 |
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Jan 28, 2011 16:57
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When I was visiting my sister over Christmas, I kept making jokes about clicker training my 4 year old niece. Little did I know...
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Jan 28, 2011 17:22
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Instant Jellyfish posted:There actually is a movement to use clicker training with people called TAGteach which I find fascinating. It seems to be used mostly in kids sports for teaching form. Here's a video with some cheesy music about it. A professor of mine recently gave us a presentation on the 'virtues' of using personal response devices, i.e. clickers, in university classes. You know, those stupid devices they make students buy so that a professor can force attendance because no one wants to show up to watch them read from a powerpoint voluntarily. Anyway, he was going on about how when he first started using them, people would lose credit if they didn't answer or answered wrong (i.e. be punished) and they hated that, so he moved to a system of giving extra credit instead (i.e. rewarding). So they click...they get a treat...apparently the students love it.
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Jan 28, 2011 17:50
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So first off, you guys were right - Spirit only needed another day to overcome her setback before we were back on track. She's doing pretty well - just this morning we were walking back to my building, and when my neighbor came out she immediately trotted over to my side and sat down without needing to be prompted! Progress! BUT when it comes to something she really wants to see, she's starting to get cheeky. See, normally when she pulls the command order goes "Come," then when she's close to me "Sit," then when she sits "Focus" where she has to look at me before we continue. However, since she knows that sit and focus follow come 90% of the time, she's started to just plop her butt down into a sit if I say come since she's knows that's what I'm going to ask her to do next. I don't want to discourage the sit, but if I say "Come" or "Turn around" she just looks at me like "No you're gonna make me sit anyways so I'm sittin  " Is a tug on the leash to remind her to come appropriate in this instance? I don't want to walk over to her, since she's half assed on stay still and takes me walking as a sign to continue on and I don't want to encourage the behavior, since I said "Come," not "Sit."
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Jan 28, 2011 19:17
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I have a bit of an odd situation - I'm not sure if this question should be here or puppy FAQ, so if I need to redirect let me know. My new buddy Dudley is an intact, 5 month old male (5 months on Feb 1 to be exact). We've had him for 6 days, and he's doing great. He doesn't chew, he comes when called, he knows "leave it" and "sit" without any problem. He's crate trained and generally house broken. He tends to pee when he gets excited, which while annoying, isn't really his fault so we never yell or act disappointed - we ignore and clean up. The only problem we have encountered is he seems to be marking what's "his" in the house, mainly the "safety blankets" we drag from room to room so he'll feel comfortable in his new house. Last night, my SO and I were playing with him and his blanket, putting it over his eyes and his back, etc. When we were done playing we used the "all done" command, which he knows means no more playing, and put the blanket down. As soon as it hit the floor, he stood over it and peed while looking at us. We're talking a good, healthy, I-drank-5-gallons-of-water-today pee. We were so surprised we just stared at him with our mouths open. He had been outside about an hour ago so I'm not even sure where he got all that urine! First question: How do we get him to stop peeing every time he's excited, or will this be a lifetime thing? Second question: Do you all think this the blanket-peeing thing is a house breaking issue or a marking issue?
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Jan 28, 2011 19:37
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That thing I sent posted:So first off, you guys were right - Spirit only needed another day to overcome her setback before we were back on track. She's doing pretty well - just this morning we were walking back to my building, and when my neighbor came out she immediately trotted over to my side and sat down without needing to be prompted! Progress! I'm not an established PI vet, but my own two cents are that I see a couple of issues going on here. The first is that the recall needs a little work, and the others are due to pattern recognition in your training. The second is easy -- stop training her the same steps in the same order every time. People make this mistake a lot in Comp. Obed. because they always train a finish after a recall. So in the ring, after the recall the dog immediately executes a finish. Mix them up so that she doesn't think that you're giving her a single command that consists of three words. You also may want to consider training her to a proper heel, which means she returns to your side and waits for your cue. My wife and I are actually thinking very seriously about spending the 30 bucks on Patricia McConnell's recall training DVD. Our dog's recall is fairly good, but we really want it to be unwavering because it's so crucial, especially if we ever want to take her hiking off leash. What we've done so far with the recalls is going to an outdoor area, with a very long lead. This is not a self-retracting leash, this is an actual 30 foot nylon leash. Leave it coiled near you, and make sure you retain the end. Tie it to your belt, step on it, whatever, but RETAIN CONTROL of the leash. Let the dog wander off and get into a distraction (ours likes to eat bushes). Give the recall command, and make sure that you put the appropriate amount of energy into it. Your voice should indicate excitement and joy -- it should be a happy human bark, not an angry or stern command. The goal is for her to come racing to you as fast as she can, and sit in front of you, focusing on you. If you get something close to this (even if it's not super fast -- treat it). If the dog isn't going as fast as you'd like, keep hold of the leash and run a few steps away from her. The goal is to trigger a chase game in which she is trying to catch you. This usually works. One of the important things is not to issue the command more than once. Say it once, loudly and clearly (and happily). If the dog doesn't respond, take the leash and reel the dog into you, placing her into a sit like you want. Don't jerk or yank the leash, as you're trying to set the dog up to succeed. In terms of correcting her when she's not doing what you want, I've had good success with our golden by taking an exaggerated body stance. When she's doing something that is obviously not what I asked, I cock my head and put my fists on my hips. I wanted to use something that would be easy to make very consistently understandable for her, and something that I could easily repeat. Giving her a tug on the leash might not be such a clear signal to her -- it could just mean "wrong direction, we're going this way" or, if she's already a puller, it may be a stimulus that she's already accustomed to ignoring. Hope this helps.
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Jan 28, 2011 19:46
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MrFurious posted:Sorry I only take advice from PI veterans with Trophy avatars  But in all seriousness, thanks for this. Her recall definitely needs work, so I'll try the long lead method to work on that - there's a field fairly close to my apartment complex that's no doubt full of fun things to sniff so it wouldn't take her more than 2-3 seconds to get distracted. It'll be something fun to do this weekend, since I can tell she wants to go to the field but it makes me uncomfortable walking around in it since there's so much snow on the ground that I can't be sure exactly where I'm about to put my foot, but standing in one place with a long lead shouldn't be too bad. And I'll definitely work on varying up the commands. Maybe leaving out sit every so often, since she's starting to put together come = come over to me and sit with minimal prompting.
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Jan 28, 2011 19:57
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Belisama posted:I have a bit of an odd situation - I'm not sure if this question should be here or puppy FAQ, so if I need to redirect let me know. Puppies often need to pee after playing (and eating and waking up) so I would guess it just seemed like a good place when he had to go. Most marking issues are housebreaking issues. Just take him out any time you are transitioning from one activity to another and praise like crazy when he pees outside. The excitement pee is often outgrown, especially when the dog gains confidence. Is it when people are greeting him? I would work on doing whatever it is that is exciting him in the blandest way possible for a while. Just ignore him when you are returning home or whatever. If he pees just clean it up like its no big deal. If its happening a lot without him seeming to notice you may want to check in with your vet to make sure its not a medical problem.
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Jan 28, 2011 20:20
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