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That thing I sent posted:So first off, you guys were right - Spirit only needed another day to overcome her setback before we were back on track. She's doing pretty well - just this morning we were walking back to my building, and when my neighbor came out she immediately trotted over to my side and sat down without needing to be prompted! Progress! It's just as Mr Furious said. Your dog is outsmarting you. She knows that you're going to cue a sit after a recall, so she's cutting out the middle man. What you want to do is break up the behaviours individually. Work on each on its own, and mix up the order you normally ask for them. Keep your dog guessing. And if you really want to get that behaviour on proper cue, don't reward for your dog offering the next step (but don't punish either -- just ignore). (Mr Furious, was it McConnell's blog that talked about patterning in the Comp OB ring? What you mentioned sounds so familiar but I can't remember whether I read a blog article about it or what.) On top of breaking all the behaviour down and being less predictable, I would inject some fun into the exercise. Get your dog excited about what you're asking of her. It kind of sounds like it's becoming a bit of a chore for her. So, again, as Mr Furious said, modulate your voice, get excited, and work to be the most rewarding thing available to your dog. Belisima posted:I have a bit of an odd situation - I'm not sure if this question should be here or puppy FAQ, so if I need to redirect let me know. He'll outgrow the excitement peeing. You can help him along by greeting him calmly, ignoring him if he's visibly excited, and never reach above his head to pet him. Try to offer your hand to him from below, and pet/massage his chest and sides. Warn other people to do the same. As far as the blanket peeing thing goes, I think it was a symptom of him really having to pee, and him not being fully housebroken yet. I think he's too young to be concerned about marking. Do your best to clean all areas inside with your enzymatic cleaner and continue to focus hard on housebreaking. If he's' peeing on his blankets, I might consider removing them for a while (2 weeks - a month) to remove the temptation to relieve himself on them.
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Jan 28, 2011 20:28
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" Is a tug on the leash to remind her to come appropriate in this instance? I don't want to walk over to her, since she's half assed on stay still and takes me walking as a sign to continue on and I don't want to encourage the behavior, since I said "Come," not "Sit."
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That thing I sent posted:So first off, you guys were right - Spirit only needed another day to overcome her setback before we were back on track. She's doing pretty well - just this morning we were walking back to my building, and when my neighbor came out she immediately trotted over to my side and sat down without needing to be prompted! Progress! Sorry, I have nothing to add for your 'bitch im sittin what' issue aside from what MrFurious and a life less have said, but I just wanted to say that I love reading the thread for updates like this.  It's just really gratifying to me that we can all learn and help dogs in this way etc (I'm very gay I know).
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Jan 28, 2011 20:35
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a life less posted:On top of breaking all the behaviour down and being less predictable, I would inject some fun into the exercise. Get your dog excited about what you're asking of her. It kind of sounds like it's becoming a bit of a chore for her. So, again, as Mr Furious said, modulate your voice, get excited, and work to be the most rewarding thing available to your dog. I'll incorporate this too - admittedly it does get kind of repetitive after awhile, since on her big walks I usually have to correct her about 5-6 times during it, so I can see how it would be getting old for both of us. I'll make sure to sound way more excited than I have been to see if I can get her running to come see what is it I want. And I have to go to the pet store anyways, so maybe I can pick up some more exciting treats, that might help too. And doing the recall training in the field will be an excellent break - I'm pretty set in my routine, so I'm sure she'd appreciate any variation. Captain Foxy posted:It's just really gratifying to me that we can all learn and help dogs in this way etc (I'm very gay I know). Ya'll have no idea how grateful I am to have PI as a resource. Every time I have expect to see "Oh my god just GOOGLE IT STUPID" as a response, but there's been nothing but good, solid, helpful advice that actually works. Leash etiquette is tough for sure, but Spirit is slowly but surely putting the pieces together, and I'm really happy that super knowledgeable PI folks are around to help me with issues before they become problems. PS I'm gay too we'll be gay together.
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Jan 28, 2011 20:52
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That thing i said posted:Park stuff Just make sure you've got a solid recall indoors before you go outdoors, or you're pushing her too fast. Indoors is a much more comfortable and familiar environment. If she's not doing it regularly inside, outdoors is probably too much too fast. a life less posted:(Mr Furious, was it McConnell's blog that talked about patterning in the Comp OB ring? What you mentioned sounds so familiar but I can't remember whether I read a blog article about it or what.) I'm sure she's talked about it, but to be honest my wife would know better than I. I've seen it in other places too, and our trainer has mentioned it as well (although we are currently falling out of love with her and considering trying to do our own thing and just focusing on obedience for a while). My wife has gone whole hog on the dog training since we got Sadie back in May. The things we have learned in ten months are mind boggling. She just finished The Other End of the Leash too, so we're big fans.
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Jan 29, 2011 01:47
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So in class last night we did a kind of cool thing where the dogs went around in stations to do a quick runthrough a training exercise or sport. We had a shaping, agility, nosework, and rally station. Psyche did great at both nosework (admittedly it was a really simple exercise) and the A-frame, which she went straight up after a little prompting. She seemed to focus on those games really well, even through there were dogs at the other stations that had previously been driving her crazy. We also did a rally runthrough and while she mostly followed my lead (when she wasn't barking at an ill-placed mirror on the far wall), I noticed that she did not look at me. Not once. If we're practicing heel in a non-distraction environment, she'll look at me for treats, but I can never hold her attention. She's very curious and probably has ADD.  She has a Watch command that I need to work on more, but I think it bores her. Are there any fun focus games that people know of?
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Jan 29, 2011 15:37
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Kiri koli posted:She has a Watch command that I need to work on more, but I think it bores her. Are there any fun focus games that people know of? Ours loves to play tug. We have a few toys that are mostly dedicated tug toys. We'll get those out and get her engaged, then put a hand on it and say "Give" (she is really good about this), and make her focus on us for a little while, then give it back and play some more tug. This works pretty well to get her focused briefly, but it isn't always practical.
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Jan 29, 2011 15:55
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Congrats on a fun and mostly successful class, Psyche! Kiri koli posted:She has a Watch command that I need to work on more, but I think it bores her. Are there any fun focus games that people know of? It sounds like she knows 'watch' pretty well, from what you said, but distractions and new situations are definitely more interesting to pay attention to than you. What're you using for high-value treats? I really can't lay enough praise on uncooked hot dog slices: seriously the best. That being said, I use my 'Watch' command a lot in various situations, all the time, so it's become one of our stable stand-by commands. I use it a lot on walks, alternating between asking for a 'Sit' or a 'Heel' and then a 'Watch' or just asking for 'Watch' right off the bat. Keeper gets a tiny piece of hot dog for looking at me immediately, and as the walk goes on I ask for increased staring time. Doing that enough on walks has led to a fairly good focus, but now I'm stepping my training up by walking him in a heavily populated downtown area and asking for 'Watch' as distractions happen, like buses going by, loud people, honking cars, etc. We're still working on this training because I don't always have the time to take him downtown, but after each session I notice a marked improvement in his focus for the 'normal' walks. In addition, when we're at home and I have an extra set of hands to help, I play the 'cup game' to charge up his focus. The 'cup game' is the traditional test of doggie intellect; you put two dixie cups upside down on the ground, put a piece of hot dog under one (without letting the dog see where it went, of course) and point to the one with the hot dog piece. The dog will usually always go directly where you point; one of the key differences between canines and other intelligent animals. Anyway, I have Tobie hold Keeper's leash opposite the pair of dixie cups and I ask him for a 'Watch'. Then I point to the cup, tell him 'Find it!' and he rewards himself! It's actually worked out very well for us, because Keeper's figured out that when I ask him to focus on me, it can mean a variety of things that can happen, so he focuses in tight and waits for the next command, knowing he'll either find a tasty treat or be given one. It shakes up the routine for variety's sake, but doesn't confuse the command or change its meaning.
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Jan 29, 2011 18:18
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Captain Foxy posted:Congrats on a fun and mostly successful class, Psyche! Yeah, she gets hot dogs and pieces of string cheese for class and for training sessions primarily, though I try to throw in other stuff as well to keep her interested. I used to practice Watch outside all the time, but the winter has really restricted our time outside because it's cold and because our two feet of snow really restricts our movements and I don't want to spend much time hanging around in places where we can't bail if someone or a dog shows up. But of course that's where all the good distractions are. Sounds like I need to incorporate Watch into more of the games we play inside. We have a hard time keeping her interest with toys (except she loves monkey in the middle when me and my husband are both around), but I think I'll just ask for Watch more often. I was mostly doing dedicated Watch sessions before, but I should really just ask for it every so often, especially when she's excited. She really has no duration though. If I'm not holding a treat in front of her face, she'll glance around even with no real distractions. Honestly, I wonder if she'll just always do that. It seems like it's just her personality, but then again maybe we just need to work on it a lot more. We play the cups game too.
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Jan 29, 2011 20:18
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Hey guys. Here's an update on the separation anxiety, also I think I need some advice. We must have broken the pattern of her chewing the crate liner by putting bricks in the crate because I just put the liner back in on top of the bricks and so far she has not chewed it. This is great news because her elbows and paw pads were starting to look sad from laying on bricks. We moved the crate into the kitchen instead of the bedroom. My place is only like 500 square feet though so it's not like she's far from us at any time. We're also working a lot more heavily on treating and acting stupid excited when she goes in the crate and she's now willing to go hang out in it a bit more than before. However, in order to help her on the road to independence I've decided she can't sleep in bed with us anymore. Ideally I'd like to have her sleeping in the crate but she will bark and neighbors will complain. We did try that for a few hours but sleeping in the crate just isn't going to happen. We've been shutting her out of our room though, and setting her up a nice comfy bed on the couch with her favorite sleeping bag of mine and her favorite toys. I sat out here with her until she was asleep and then I quietly moved to the bedroom. Last night and all of tonight so far she whined and scratched at the door non-stop. Am I correct in thinking that getting her to sleep independently will help with separation anxiety? Is this the best way to go about it? She has kongs, toys, cuddly things, an entire couch to sleep on, and she knows we are here so I would think she'd be alright. Is it just a matter of sticking to our guns and dealing with a few more sleepless nights? Is it completely wrong to react at all when she is seriously freaking out? I have to admit I have twice given her a sharp "eh-eh" which we use for corrections but I'm wary of "any attention is good attention" Please back me up or advise me if I should be doing something differently. I'm the one justifying to the boyfriend why we can't let her come in and cuddle with us, he does not think she will ever get used to sleeping alone and we will never get a good night's sleep again.
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Jan 30, 2011 07:16
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I have a pretty serious dog phobia problem: I have two dogs, one a 13-year-old Miniature Schnauzer, and a 9 month old terrier mutt. The terrier pup is responding really brilliantly to clicker training ... but it turns out the poor old Schnauzer is absolutely terrified of the sound of the clicker. When she hears it click even one time, she runs and hides on the opposite side of the house, will not eat or come out for a long time (more than an hour). I don't think it's the sound of the clicker hurting her ears or anything, as it's not a very loud one and I have enough sense not to click it anywhere near her head. I'm pretty sure this is a simple fear of that category of sharp "pop" sound, she gets the same way on pretty much all major holidays when all the neighbors are shooting fireworks. Since she won't eat or really do anything but hide in terror I don't see an easy way to desensitize her to this sound, but I really would like to get some use of this method for the terrier pup. I don't want to gently caress up my poor loyal Schnauzer any more than she already is though, so for the time being I take the terrier outside and try to minimize the noise of the clicker by covering it completely with my hand. It works and I'm willing to stay with that if I can't help my Schnauzer, but I'd like to know if there's any way I can help her with this phobia - after all fireworks noise is pretty common where I live. Thanks.
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Jan 31, 2011 04:41
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Snapple bottle tops are great alternatives for clickers and make a much softer click sound. Things like clicky pens can also been used.
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Jan 31, 2011 04:48
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Nothing to do with the phobia question, but: I had a thought regarding animal training that struck me as pretty useful but I've never seen noted anywhere - it seems to me that one of the first things you'd want to teach would be "when I call your name, pay attention to me, look at me". Maybe this is so obvious that nobody bothers to mention it, but it seems one of those things that clicker training is perfect for, and it's pretty important to get the animal's attention to get them to respond to commands.
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Jan 31, 2011 05:09
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Flesh Forge posted:Nothing to do with the phobia question, but: I had a thought regarding animal training that struck me as pretty useful but I've never seen noted anywhere - it seems to me that one of the first things you'd want to teach would be "when I call your name, pay attention to me, look at me". Maybe this is so obvious that nobody bothers to mention it, but it seems one of those things that clicker training is perfect for, and it's pretty important to get the animal's attention to get them to respond to commands. Yes, this is one of the first things you do with a clicker both because it reinforces the dog's name (which is really just a word to them) and because it's a good opportunity to cement the idea that the click means a treat is coming because the timing is really easy. It isn't mentioned often, though we did talk about it somewhere in the context of changing a dog's name when you adopt them.
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Jan 31, 2011 05:17
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Flesh Forge posted:Nothing to do with the phobia question, but: I had a thought regarding animal training that struck me as pretty useful but I've never seen noted anywhere - it seems to me that one of the first things you'd want to teach would be "when I call your name, pay attention to me, look at me". Maybe this is so obvious that nobody bothers to mention it, but it seems one of those things that clicker training is perfect for, and it's pretty important to get the animal's attention to get them to respond to commands. There are loads of different ways to get a dog to respond to its name, and most people achieve it eventually without ever really having to work on it. By the time they find this thread they've normally moved past it. But, here's a method that is great, and should be reinforced for the duration of the dog's life whether your dog already knows its name or not. It can also serve as your dog's introduction to the clicker, if you so choose. I'll link this post to the OP. The Goal To have your dog orient to you when you say its name. To have the dog associate good things with its name, which lays the ground work for all future training. The Method I like to condition my dogs both classically and operantly to respond to their names. That way it becomes so ingrained in them that they will orient to me almost without thinking in just about any situation. Classically: Have a handful of treats, and give them to your dog one at a time. The moment each treat touches your dog's tongue say its name. You're creating a subconscious association between the name and tasty treats. Do this in short bursts of ~10 treats 5-10 times a day, and always leave the dog wanting more. To keep the association between the name strong, you should do this daily for a month, and then sporadically for the rest of the dog's life. Operantly: This can happen simultaneously with teaching the name classically if the dog has some form of name recognition already. If the dog does not, approach this classically for a day or two before moving on to this step. Again, handful of treats, and this time a clicker. Say the dog's name, and if it orients to you, click and treat. You're rewarding the orienting response at the sound of your dog's name. You can eventually choose to use your dog's name as its focus cue if you want. As you progress you can begin raising your criteria: orient to me faster, hold eye contact with me longer, etc. But at first you just want your dog to stop what it's doing and look at you. Start in a low-distraction environment like your kitchen or living room, then move on to your back yard or the sidewalk in front of your house, then maybe 50 ft from a distraction, then 25, etc. Don't try to get the dog's attention with its name when it's out at a dog park and focused on other dogs. Set your dog up for success, and do this when you're pretty certain your dog will respond to you. If you go too far too fast, and your dog chooses to focus on another dog instead of you, the name can become white noise in those high distraction areas. Again, do this in short bursts of ~10 treats 5-10 times a day. And, again, do this daily for a month, and then sporadically for the rest of your dog's life to keep the association strong. The Result A dog who will love to hear the sound of its name, and will come searching you out when you call it. My dog can be out of sight in a forest, and will come running at me full speed when I give her a call. Obviously it takes some work, and some heavy reinforcement, but it's a very powerful tool. a life less fucked around with this message at 14:51 on Jan 31, 2011 |
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Jan 31, 2011 14:27
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That's really helpful, I was going to try something a lot less elaborate with my new dog Darla but that's lined out a whole lot more clearly and thoroughly. Thanks!
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Jan 31, 2011 14:46
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This is great, now she knows her name is not Ow, gently caress, Turd or the various other things I frequently say when we're playing. Thanks again!
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Jan 31, 2011 16:21
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Will sleeping out of the room help with separation anxiety? We've kicked Moxie out of the bedroom at night for the past three nights but I'd like input on whether or not that's likely to help or hurt her separation anxiety.
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Jan 31, 2011 21:23
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Cassiope posted:Will sleeping out of the room help with separation anxiety? We've kicked Moxie out of the bedroom at night for the past three nights but I'd like input on whether or not that's likely to help or hurt her separation anxiety. I wish I knew. I think, in theory, it should help her SA. But in practice, every dog is different. I personally feel like it WOULD help, but I'm very unfamiliar with dealing with separation anxiety. I would try it out for maybe 2-4 weeks and see if you see any improvement in her behaviour. Then maybe reassess the situation. Maybe, also, try removing her from the bedroom more gradually -- move her crate into the hallway, but with the door open (inconvenient, I'm sure). Then move it a foot towards the next room the next night. One more foot the next night. I'm not sure how practical this is, but it seems like it would make sense if she's having too much trouble coping with the distance. Sorry for not responding earlier -- I'm just not familiar enough with SA.
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Jan 31, 2011 21:33
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a life less posted:I wish I knew. I think, in theory, it should help her SA. But in practice, every dog is different. I personally feel like it WOULD help, but I'm very unfamiliar with dealing with separation anxiety. I'm not familiar with it either, any input is helpful as far as I'm concerned. I really think crating her and moving her away gradually would work well, but when we crate her she barks. Even if we are in the room with her she barks. I have paper thin walls and my neighbors can hear me sneeze, never mind Moxie barking at 1 o'clock in the morning. I may give that another shot if she keeps me up all night whining (and peeing where she shouldn't!), I just hate crating her all night and then crating her first thing in the morning so I can go to class. My boyfriend has started sleeping with earplugs but I'm way too nervous she'll get into something and get hurt and I won't hear it so I'm the one staying up all night listening to her whine to come in the room. I do love this dog, but it would be nice if she maybe loved me just a little less... edit: Also what we've been doing is allowing her back in the room and on the bed come morning. Boyfriend leaves at 4:30am and lets Moxie in, then she sleeps with me another few hours. Should we go all or nothing and ban her from the bed even during the day? 
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Jan 31, 2011 21:40
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Cassiope posted:Will sleeping out of the room help with separation anxiety? We've kicked Moxie out of the bedroom at night for the past three nights but I'd like input on whether or not that's likely to help or hurt her separation anxiety. Anecdotally I have heard that sleeping in a different room helps prevent SA and may help once its already developed. SA is one of the few anxieties Major doesn't have but I don't know how much that has to do with him sleeping in a different room at night. When I first got him he would pitch a fit at bedtime because he wanted to be with me but I didn't give in and now he goes to bed just fine. A few times I have freaked out about my house alarm going off at night and let him sleep in my bed and the next night he would revert back to whining but he's always gotten over it. I don't have close neighbors though so you might have to balance pushing her comfort level and getting kicked out of your place. Have you tried a DAP plugin around her bed area? That may help. I also really, really like the Through a Dog's Ear cds. I didn't think they would do anything at all but after pairing the music with some relaxation time a couple of times I can just put it on and Major finds his mat and passes out. It puts me to sleep to so everyone might benefit!
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Jan 31, 2011 21:57
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Cassiope posted:Will sleeping out of the room help with separation anxiety? We've kicked Moxie out of the bedroom at night for the past three nights but I'd like input on whether or not that's likely to help or hurt her separation anxiety. a life less is right in that it depends on the dog. People have told me that their dogs are happiest sleeping in the room with them, but when Psyche was in our room, she would just bark and whine everytime we made a move. In the morning, she was so excited to wake up and cuddle with us on the bed that she would start whining whenever a noise woke her up. So we decided to move her to the next room with a white noise machine. She barked some the first couple nights and then was fine. Now she hardly ever makes a sound at night and in the morning she'll occasionally make some noise because she hears something outside, but she's not whining for us to get up. When I do get up, half the time she rolls over in her crate so that I'll give her belly rubs and I have to tell her to get moving. So just try everything as long as you try it long enough to determine whether or not it's working. Another thing I ended up doing was telling Psyche to be quiet in her crate when she was making noise. We had previously just ignored her, but that reminder really helped (combined with her never getting her way when she was making noise). I'm not sure doing it gradually is a good idea...I think it's a more binary thing than that, like the dog either hears you (and is comforted or bothered by that depending on the dog) or it doesn't. Also, a dog might be confused by the crate moving around. This would be true for Psyche at least.
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Jan 31, 2011 22:10
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Thanks guys! I'm going to stick to my guns for at least another week then. It's good to have some backup so that when I'm laying there in the wee hours of the morning hearing her freaking out I don't doubt myself as much. Hopefully we'll see some improvement in the next few days. I'll try playing some white noise too, that's a good idea. Right now the balance between her comfort level and not getting kicked out of my house is having her out of our room, but not locked in her crate. So far no complaints from the neighbor but it beats me how she doesn't hear all the fussing Moxie does.
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Jan 31, 2011 22:36
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So, after three days of noob clicker training (for both me and the dog) Darla is now pretty familiar with: - The clicker itself - Her name - Stand (on her hind legs) - Sit - Come - Stay - Lay Down - Roll Over - Speak - Quiet - Spin (clockwise) She had a little head start with traditional "do the treat and I'll give you a cookie" methods on Stand, Come, Stay, Lay Down and Roll Over, but I'd say the clicker training approach is many times faster and more rewarding for both of us. I've never trained an animal beyond the very basic things like sit/stay and I've never been able to get a dog to bark on command, I'm really impressed. There are a few behaviors she picked up very easily on her own before I started with the clicker, like housebreaking and fetch, but I'm completely sold on clicker training. Her whole personality is much more focused and calm than it was before I started with it.
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Feb 1, 2011 02:38
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How do I train my dog to... not be afraid of *everything*? My buddy Dudley is driving me crazy. He's not super energetic, but he's 5 months and so has lots of energy to burn. I try to take him on nice, long walks, but we never get more than .25 miles before he digs his heels in and refuses to move because OMGtheresacar/bird/person/bush/bicycle/enter random noun here. I have tried everything I can think of. We've walked around my exceedingly quiet neighborhood - but the dogs in other yards (behind fences), random neighbor, and birds induce refusal to take one more step that's not towards home. I've offered treats in the way you would teaching a dog to heel - he won't even sniff at them when we're walking, even though he practically bowls me over at home for them. I tried loading him in the car (a feat in and of itself) and taking him to a rural trail in town - same result. I tried taking him to a relatively bustling trail in town and just sitting for a half hour on a bench so he can get used to the sounds/sights/etc and he sat under my legs and peed himself about 3 times. It might be worth mentioning that this pup was found as a stray with it's mother at about 2 months, and was fostered with 7 dogs but only 1 person in a very rural community for the rest of his puppy life. When I adopted him, his foster never mentioned any of these problems so I have to admit I'm ill prepared to deal. Dudley is a wonderful addition to our family and I want him to lead a happy, active doggy life fit for the adorable pup he is. I don't want to torture this poor guy by dragging him around by his collar, and I don't want his only exercise to be chasing a ball in the house. I'm just not sure what's the best course of action to relieve his anxiety about the entire world. Help  Any resources/archived threads/books would be much appreciated.
Belisama fucked around with this message at 16:17 on Feb 1, 2011 |
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Feb 1, 2011 16:14
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 LONGPOST Just fyiIs it ever too late to train a dog with some mild behavioral issues? My sister and her husband got a puppy through an acquaintances-of-acquaintances sort of network after a coworker's neighbor found out her "I could've sworn she was fixed!" dog was due with puppies. The mother basically rejected the litter from the start, so the puppies were separated from their mom pretty early. Their puppy, Emory, is just over 1 year old now and does have some issues with general obedience, recall, mouthiness, and possessiveness. At Christmastime, she was on the couch with a new duck and chicken liver-filled treat next to the husband's father. He reached over her to receive a present; she freaked out for him getting too close to her treat and bit right through his hand She hasn't been nearly that aggressive before or since, but since the couple is looking to have children, it raised some concerns for Emory's behavior.In their household, Josh (the husband) is the man of the house, and he spends more time with Emory than Katie (my sister) does during the week due to their work schedules. Emory is affectionate with him but more cautious, because she knows he brings the discipline (scolding, getting picked up and taken out to the backyard). She doesn't jump up on the couch to lick him to death or to sit on him, only to sit next to him quietly. With Katie and any visitors or new friends, she treats them like they're puppies too, so she jumps around, licks and mouths, and will actually step all over you/sit on you if you're sitting/lying down. Katie can't bear to raise her voice at the dog, so Emory doesn't get any discipline from Mom. The only real training she's received is crate and housebreaking, both of which she excels at v  v So, this March I'm going to be in NC living with them for a week and not really doing anything during the day. I was thinking, with Josh and Katie's permission, would it be possible/okay to introduce training? If she responds to a clicker from me, will she respond to the same clicker from Josh or from Katie?
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Feb 1, 2011 16:22
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Belisama posted:How do I train my dog to... not be afraid of *everything*? It sounds like he's going through his second fear imprint stage. Link. He's more aware of the world, and noticing all these new things that are scary for no reason other than that they're new. It's one of the tougher puppy development stages. I like that you took him to a bench and just sat with him for a while -- that's what I'm going to recommend you do, only do it much closer to home. How far can you get before him freaking out? Take that distance and divide it in half. That's the distance I would recommend you just spend some time sitting down, feeding treats and playing. It took my pup a long time before she was comfortable to even walk to the end of the street, let alone to the park or anywhere further. When you see something coming that you think might be scary you can start shoving treats into his mouth. If he won't take them you're too close to the scary thing -- when dogs are scared their sympathetic nervous system kicks in, shutting down digestion, making them physically unable to eat. If that happens try to reset the exercise at a further distance. Always try to end these on a high note and do your best to make it fun and engaging for your pup. http://fearfuldogs.com/ might offer a few more pointers, but I doubt Dudley is chronically fearful. That site is catered to the most shut down of dogs, but you might find it helpful.
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Feb 1, 2011 16:24
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Flesh Forge posted:So, after three days of noob clicker training (for both me and the dog) Darla is now pretty familiar with: Sometimes I hate how loving fast dogs learn this stuff. Roll over took a couple of weeks for Trophy to learn well.
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Feb 1, 2011 16:25
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a life less posted:It sounds like he's going through his second fear imprint stage. Link. He's more aware of the world, and noticing all these new things that are scary for no reason other than that they're new. It's one of the tougher puppy development stages. Man see this is why I come here and not google! I think that second phase is spot on - he's a little young for it, but since he's in a new home in a less rural area than from where he came, I think this is spot on. I agree, I don't think he's chronically fearful because he does alright if he's allowed to sit and adjust at a distance, it just usually takes an hour or so. I guess it will be many more cold mornings sitting in the snow and ice so we can build up to walks. 
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Feb 1, 2011 16:37
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Oh I don't mean that she's totally trained - e.g. she's barking her head off right now as I'm typing this - but she's familiar with them, and I can get her to do them if I have her full attention and she's calm and focused and there are no distractions. Since she's a hyper little poo poo, this isn't all that much of the time. I kinda think that certain behaviors like "roll over" are a lot more natural for some dogs than others. Darla was doing this on her own all the time anyway because she likes to have her belly stroked, so it wasn't a big deal to get her to do it when I ask her to. Getting her to bark on command was also not a big jump, because she loves barking anyway. A really cool thing though, she's made that magic association that doing tricks = me giving her treats and praise, and when she sees that I have something that she might like then she'll try the tricks she knows to get me to give it to her. Actually she probably started doing this a while back, I just didn't realize what she was doing because she only knew a couple of tricks (sit, lay down). Now she'll try barking, sitting, and (cutest) walking on her hind legs. OMG GIVE ME THE loving TREAT LOOK WHAT I'M DOING I AM AWESOME GIMME GIMME
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Feb 1, 2011 16:44
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Cassiope posted:Thanks guys! I'm going to stick to my guns for at least another week then. It's good to have some backup so that when I'm laying there in the wee hours of the morning hearing her freaking out I don't doubt myself as much. Also, I just recently got "I'll Be Home Soon" (thanks to this thread!) to read up on things for Koji, since he's recently developed a mild case of SA since I came back from a short vacation a few months back. Doesn't care when Mr. Pfox leaves, it's all about me going somewhere.  But what's helped and what the book helped reinforce is not making a big deal about leaving or coming back. Don't know if you already practice this, but make going to bed and waking up in the morning not a big thing. The book explained coming back all excited and grateful you're back as the dog interpreting it as "Oh GOD you almost DIED! Good thing you came home ALIVE! I'm so happy you're back TOO! Don't ever go out there again, I don't want you to die!" So I come home, let Koji do his happy dance, but I don't pet him or give him attention until he sits nicely for me, and it's really helped. She also goes through some really interesting exercises, like desensitizing the routine of you leaving, how to condition the awesome you only get these when I'm gone treats, etc. I highly recommend it and I was able to pick it up pretty cheap used at B&N.com.Also, I gotta love LOVE love Crate Games. He tolerates the crate and was never as bad as Moxie, but it's so much fun for him to figure out that I want him to go in the crate all the way, turn around and sit before I give him a treat. He also has started to figure out if he lies down that means EXTRA treats. He won't go in there to chill out by himself yet, but he'll walk in there from time to time to see if he left anything behind, but I always encourage that, especially when we're not specifically playing.
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Feb 1, 2011 16:52
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my dog boyfriend!!! posted:
A one year old dog is certainly not too old for training, although it should have been done sooner. The clicker is just a reward marker and as long as everyone is on the same page about training they can all use it. Here's a real basic video on training. Watch all of kikopup's videos, they're awesome! The resource guarding to the point of seriously hurting someone needs to be dealt with way before they have kids or its not going to end well for anyone. The book Mine! would be a good start but if the dog is really hurting people they should probably seek a professional positive dog trainer or veterinary behaviorist.
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Feb 1, 2011 16:55
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Instant Jellyfish posted:A one year old dog is certainly not too old for training, although it should have been done sooner. The clicker is just a reward marker and as long as everyone is on the same page about training they can all use it. Here's a real basic video on training. Watch all of kikopup's videos, they're awesome! Yeeeees great  Re: the resource guarding, she's never ever been that bad about it. Right now I think it was a combination of Christmas stress (there were 5 visitors in the house at the time, lots of talking and laughing, being loud, unwrapping presents with crinkly noises that she HATES) and the brand new, never-before-seen duck liver treats that she was just toooo excited about. Under more everyday-type circumstances, she doesn't get like that. Give her a familiar rawhide and she'll love it, but if you take it away from her, she's not bugged about it. I'll talk to Katie and Josh about the book and pass along these tips to them. Thanks
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Feb 1, 2011 17:17
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Flesh Forge posted:I kinda think that certain behaviors like "roll over" are a lot more natural for some dogs than others. Darla was doing this on her own all the time anyway because she likes to have her belly stroked, so it wasn't a big deal to get her to do it when I ask her to. Getting her to bark on command was also not a big jump, because she loves barking anyway.  I hate you. I've almost got Spirit with a "play dead," which I'm hoping to shape into roll over at some point, but she doesn't really follow treats with her nose so it's all about catching her right at that moment. A month I've been working on this crap with slow results.BUT I've also taught her "condolences" where she'll put her paw on my arm and bow her head. It evolved naturally from shake and is the cutest drat thing in the world. She's much better at the tricks that involve sitting down (Beg is coming up next!) than the tricks that require her to stand or lay down. ah well, we'll get there eventually.
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Feb 1, 2011 18:24
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If you want her to follow a lure, that itself is a trick you have to teach her. Darla isn't actually too good at this herself and I need to teach her that, when she sees I have a treat in my hand she's already learned not to go for it or she won't get it - not necessarily a bad thing but I have a hard time luring her around without trying to eat the treat. From what I've learned, it's good to teach the animal to track a non-food target to work around that problem: Pretty sure that any bright, well-defined object would work for this purpose, and preferably something that won't get the animal too excited to focus (e.g. not a tennis ball). edit: have a look at this video example: http://www.metacafe.com/watch/1265251/target_stick_training_an_introduction_to_targeting/ Flesh Forge fucked around with this message at 21:24 on Feb 1, 2011 |
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Feb 1, 2011 21:21
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Reminder that your 'lure' can be anything. I took the sponge off an old aquarium scraper and just use that http://source-www.petco.com/Assets/product_images/1/1083812040B.jpg
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Feb 1, 2011 21:31
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wraithgar posted:Reminder that your 'lure' can be anything. I took the sponge off an old aquarium scraper and just use that Seems reasonable that you could use a specific hand gesture as well. What if I make a fist and stick my pinky out and have her follow that? Anyone tried something similar?
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Feb 1, 2011 21:35
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MrFurious posted:Seems reasonable that you could use a specific hand gesture as well. What if I make a fist and stick my pinky out and have her follow that? Anyone tried something similar? I did! A fist with my first two fingers pointing out is Major's cue to touch and follow. He will also touch a lure stick (came with my Manners Minder) or a plastic yogurt tub lid.
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Feb 1, 2011 21:41
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Hey all I've been lurking for a while now and absolutely love all the info I've been able to find both in the forum threads and through the different links. It's been a real eye opener for me on how to better handle my dog, so thanks for that. So now onto my "challenge" (I try to be positive and not say problem). I have a 4 year old dachshund (Gus) that seems to be exhibiting all the signs of separation anxiety. I can't leave him alone for more than 10-15min with out him absolutely destroying my house. The other day he managed to get into my wife and I's bedroom and pull up the carpet and carpet pad near our door. I've done a lot of reading about various techniques to help him with this, giving him toys to focus his attention on, ignoring him for at least 10min before I leave for work, changing my morning routine so he doesn't know exactly when I'm leaving and such but nothing seems to help. So after finally checking out the forum I notice a lot of you suggest crating a dog if you have to leave them at home. So I went ahead and bought a wire-mesh crate off Amazon and started easing him in to it. Initially it's been good, I put the bed and blanket we keep in the living room for him to lay on in there and within 5 minutes of that he walked in and laid down on his own. I was even able to close the door and walk out of the room for about 5 - 10 minutes with out hearing anything from him. I was even able to get him to "load up" in it after a day or too of training however we never actually locked him in for more than 10 - 15min alone until Sunday. Sunday came and we decided to try it out and see how he could handle us leaving so we put him in, locked the door and were gone for about 3 hours. We get back and sure enough he'd torn up the bed (something he never touched before) and a towel we'd left underneath it to not scratch up our hardwood but I wasn't to concerned and figured that I would just pull the bed out from now on since he wants to chew it up. Other than that he seemed fine. Until Yesterday. I put him in the crate and left for work like normal around 9am and my wife came home for lunch like she's been doing the last few weeks around 12:30/1pm to let him out and make sure everything was ok and there was Gus sitting at the door waiting to greet her. He'd managed to figure out how to pop open the latch with his paw and then open the door. Luckily he hadn't done anything other than get out of the crate and I guess just lay on the couch. So she took him for a short walk after she ate and then put him back in the crate and found another latch I missed before and then went back to work. She mentioned to me that he was really whiny but she just ignored him and left. Sure enough when she got home at 5:15 after she was off of work there was Gus to greet her at the door again. He managed to pop the latch and squeeze out of the narrow opening. I swear the dog is freaking Houdini (or Hound-ini). So I give all the background and  to ask this: What am I doing wrong? We ended up finding some carabiners and latched the top part of the door as well but I'm just not sure if I should continue to pin him in like this or should I try something else to make him be comfortable in his crate?
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Feb 1, 2011 21:43
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MrFurious posted:Seems reasonable that you could use a specific hand gesture as well. What if I make a fist and stick my pinky out and have her follow that? Anyone tried something similar? I was a little dubious about how well this would work with my terrier pup because she's such a spaz but I just taught her "Touch" means "touch your nose to my pointing index finger, and if my hand has food in it ignore the food". Amazingly she got it almost instantly. At the end of about 5 minutes she was doing it 3 times in a row between rewards. Smart little dog (smarter than me!)
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Feb 1, 2011 23:34
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| # ? May 15, 2024 07:24 |
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A really excellent, well-written article on lowering arousal (excitement) that has many applications, especially for spazzy dogs like mine: http://www.deesdogs.com/documents/LoweringArousal.pdf Excerpt: quote:The “Chill Out” Game
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Feb 2, 2011 02:26
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