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Harmonica posted:I don't buy the anti- line that innovation has remained at a constant since the year dot. That's revisionist. It's entirely possible that eras see more experimentation than others. The 90s was just pretty great for all art, for whatever reason. I'm not an economist or a sociologist but if I were I would probably look at those kind of factors. You're free to buy or not buy whatever, but saying "no no no you're wrong the 90s were totally great for art and the games were more free to mix it up. the 90s saw a draw jones artistical index of at least 106.7 which is more than any decade since the 1940s. because back then you could just make a game. and mix it up. it wasn't like today where you have to be a major studio like bay 12 games or notch in order to make a game. this is fact not just my (incorrect and half-baked) opinion. it's fact because... well anyway. my conclusion? it's possible that some eras saw more experimentation than others ergo some eras saw more experimentation than others. also you didn't provide me with links to magazine scans and USENET postings with first names and last names and i see no works cited page so i guess you're just being lazy. hi. im 15 years old and this is how i debate things" isn't really what I'd consider a decent line of reasoning. You're basically giving a lot of opinions and stating them as fact. The 90s had SimAnt, the 00s had Grand Theft Auto III. The 00s had a lot of brain-dead tactical shooters, the 90s had about fifty Megaman games, five hundred DOOM clones, bad FMV game after bad FMV game, and a shitload of Myst ripoffs. uncle wrinkles fucked around with this message at 10:08 on Jan 30, 2011 |
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Jan 30, 2011 09:43
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Okay, troll. We've been talking about things in reasonable depth for pages, actually, which is why I didn't bother to write a thesis in one post. Also because I'm always aware there's similar people to you who'll arrive on cue and say 'But.. this is a thread about GoG!' You couldn't give two shits about having a proper discussion, you're just here to be a dick. I'm sorry that I've rubbed you up the wrong way somewhere or other and you're going to be pissy about it. If I entered into a discussion with you, you'd just go and annoy people in other threads. Because that's what you do. (USER WAS PUT ON PROBATION FOR THIS POST)
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Jan 30, 2011 11:01
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Harmonica posted:Okay, troll. We've been talking about things in reasonable depth for pages, actually, which is why I didn't bother to write a thesis in one post. Also because I'm always aware there's similar people to you who'll arrive on cue and say 'But.. this is a thread about GoG!' Um I don't think he's trolling, he just disagrees with you. As do I. There are plenty of innovative games coming out, despite the monotonous mainstream. In fact, I'd say the indie gaming scene is more innovative and good that it has ever been. EDIT: Seriously though I just read through his post agian, and he doesn't insult you or say anything rude. You are just being overly sensitive.
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Jan 30, 2011 11:16
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Don't really want to get into a back and forth about that, but his entire post on this page is just ripping into me for no apparent reason. If you think it's cool to post like that, glad I don't know you, either.quote:As do I. There are plenty of innovative games coming out, despite the monotonous mainstream. In fact, I'd say the indie gaming scene is more innovative and good that it has ever been. You disagree with something I never actually said. Innovation is always going to be the watchword in the indie scene because that's how it functions.
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Jan 30, 2011 11:42
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Harmonica posted:Okay, troll. We've been talking about things in reasonable depth for pages, actually, which is why I didn't bother to write a thesis in one post. Also because I'm always aware there's similar people to you who'll arrive on cue and say 'But.. this is a thread about GoG!' Okay, tr 
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Jan 30, 2011 11:46
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Sorry if this has been mentioned before and I've missed it but the Circle of Eight mod pack for Temple of Elemental Evil has been updated to version 6.0 and now includes an actual installer. I'm a total noob to the game, so I have no idea what's new and what's modded content (I went for the 'new content' version) but it all feels very professionally done and ideally I'll never know. It did take a couple of minutes to finally activate it but it was all very seamless. http://www.moddb.com/mods/circle-of-eight-modpack The only downside for some people might be that your old saved games are no longer valid.
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Jan 30, 2011 12:11
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The most popular and widely known game series in the world, Call of Duty, has remained essentially static in design since game one. The two Modern Warfares done by Infinity Ward were essentially identical in design terms. Innovation is great because it means that people stumble across new game designs that work, but that doesn't mean that a game that repeats that design, perhaps in a new context or with the features refined is bad in any way. Of course you could still end up making Black and White 2 or Command and Conquer 4.
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Jan 30, 2011 12:38
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Hidden Asbestos posted:I'm a total noob to the game, so I have no idea what's new and what's modded content (I went for the 'new content' version) but it all feels very professionally done and ideally I'll never know. It did take a couple of minutes to finally activate it but it was all very seamless. The entire city of Verbobonc, and all the quests that branch off from that are fan-made content. Co8 is now equal parts enormous fan-patch and expansion, and as you say, it's so professionally produced it all feels like its was meant to be there in the first place.
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Jan 30, 2011 13:04
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Dirk Muscleton posted:Ten years ago, people were bitching about every game being an RTS or third person platformer. Games seemed a lot less innovative than they used to be. Sure, there were games from that period that weren't (Fallout, Dungeon Keeper, Metal Gear Solid), but they always seemed to be the exception, not the rule. Around this time, a little game called Half-Life: Counterstrike came out. It wasn't the first to do what it did, but for a number of reasons, it was certainly a success like none before it in its particular genre. I agree with your opinion that gaming journalism sucks, but this is a really stupid way to try and make that point.
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Jan 30, 2011 14:39
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Amethyst posted:Speaking of long, slow games, Complete uru is loving Gigantic, wandering around in it after not having played the original uru for several years is overwhelming. Just wait until you get to the expansion areas. That game is still amazingly beautiful.
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Jan 30, 2011 14:44
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I find it ironic that the only thing that comes up more often than "games aren't innovative enough these days and are just rehashes" in this thread is "I wish developers would spend their resources making exact duplicates of older games with HD budgets".
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Jan 30, 2011 14:53
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The one thing I wish about games was that they were a little more like movies, in that if you were interested in playing Resident Evil 5 you could just go out and buy Resident Evil 1-4 without owning multiple game systems and seeking out used copies. The omnipresent technology war in the gaming industry has left a legacy of games that are only relevant for a moment, then fade away into memory save for the occasional remake on newer consoles or operating systems. I know people who trade roms and things, and sites like GOG have based their business model on this sort of thing, but I really think it would be cool to be able to download and play all three Mother games without breaking the law. There must be people like me willing to pay for this stuff, and the property is just sitting there, doing nothing, waiting to be monetized in some other format. For example the big Nintendo DSiWare release this year was Shantae: Risky's Revenge, the sequel to a Game Boy Color game that is nearly impossible to find outside of file sharing. Why not just sell the rom or something, on a website that sells roms?
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Jan 30, 2011 15:51
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Be Depressive posted:The one thing I wish about games was that they were a little more like movies, in that if you were interested in playing Resident Evil 5 you could just go out and buy Resident Evil 1-4 without owning multiple game systems and seeking out used copies. The omnipresent technology war in the gaming industry has left a legacy of games that are only relevant for a moment, then fade away into memory save for the occasional remake on newer consoles or operating systems. No! You're cutting into the profits I can possibly make with an anniversary edition re-releasing a rom on a disc with a generic soundtrack and ho-hum art book $30 please. Seriously, $$$ rules everything. Maybe one day we'll have universal consoles but I guess that "console" is truly a PC.
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Jan 30, 2011 20:30
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Any chance of Syndicate getting the GOG treatment? Or Shadow Watch? Or X-Com? I just need more games like X-Com, okay? Does anyone have any thoughts on Gorky 17? It's dirt cheap so unless I hear it's terrible I'll probably pick it up but it definitely caught my eye.
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Jan 30, 2011 20:47
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I played Gorky 17 for about half an hour before deciding that it sucked and left it alone for about four months. It plays like a tactical RPG, but you don't get any money or resources for killing things and it has this awful method of leveling up where you basically up your stats by one percent or point at a time. It was really dull and I had no idea if I was even really succeeding or wasting too much ammo or what.
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Jan 30, 2011 21:12
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Be Depressive posted:The one thing I wish about games was that they were a little more like movies, in that if you were interested in playing Resident Evil 5 you could just go out and buy Resident Evil 1-4 without owning multiple game systems and seeking out used copies. The omnipresent technology war in the gaming industry has left a legacy of games that are only relevant for a moment, then fade away into memory save for the occasional remake on newer consoles or operating systems. It gets worse when you consider that to this day, there are still some games that don't emulate well. I think most of them are things like SNES games that had weird chips in the carts that people haven't been able to reverse-engineer well. Assuming the big companies still have their specs for those and could make a better emulator, there's a market for that. There's also a market for official translations of games not released globally. I really wish some companies would take their old stuff and make some kind of a combination of the App Store and Gametap but for old console games. Hell, you could even start selling accessories like official Nintendo USB NES controllers- I've seen kits to convert them yourself, I'm sure someone would buy an official version to use with their rom store.
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Jan 30, 2011 21:12
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Alchenar posted:The most popular and widely known game series in the world, Call of Duty, has remained essentially static in design since game one. The two Modern Warfares done by Infinity Ward were essentially identical in design terms. Agreed, but to add to it, for every instance of churning out duplicative sequels like CoD or any given EA Sports title, there's also instances where follow-ups are vastly different or improved from their first titles; like Assassin's Creed or Mass Effect (Or to use Good Old Examples, X-Wing to TIE Fighter, Freespace, etc.) There's still plenty of innovation to be found even in series that go on for awhile. macnbc fucked around with this message at 23:43 on Jan 30, 2011 |
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Jan 30, 2011 23:41
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Thompsons posted:I played Gorky 17 for about half an hour before deciding that it sucked and left it alone for about four months. It plays like a tactical RPG, but you don't get any money or resources for killing things and it has this awful method of leveling up where you basically up your stats by one percent or point at a time. It was really dull and I had no idea if I was even really succeeding or wasting too much ammo or what. It's an awful game, I played more than you(8 hours I think) but I eventually gave up. There is a boss who can only be defeated by being trapped behind a crate.He is blocked by the crate, can't move and can't attack anymore. Way to go, gorky 17 ! And you need to be super careful with ammo.
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Jan 31, 2011 00:42
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kuddles posted:I find it ironic that the only thing that comes up more often than "games aren't innovative enough these days and are just rehashes" in this thread is "I wish developers would spend their resources making exact duplicates of older games with HD budgets". I think this is an awesome post, BUT there is something to be said for wanting rehashes of old games that were good and innovative in their time and haven't been repeated for whatever reason. I think most people saying "gaming is poo poo nowadays" are probably only interested in a few niche games that existed in the 90s early 2000s and don't seem to get made now. Look at how many of the Indie titles on steam are basically puzzlers trying to be the next Tetris, or a cheap platformer or tower defence game. How hard would it be to make a quick and dirty JA2 ripoff, really? It doesn't NEED to be fancy 3d or anything.
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Jan 31, 2011 01:09
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ted_himself posted:I think this is an awesome post, BUT there is something to be said for wanting rehashes of old games that were good and innovative in their time and haven't been repeated for whatever reason. Very hard as the constant terrible attempts to reproduce the game would have me believe. Xcom, Jagged Alliance, Doom, Masters of Orion, etc. are practically timeless because of their flawless design. Copying that design is as simple as transferring the numbers over, maybe tweaking some poo poo, but trying to create a new title involves a ridiculous amount of play testing and design chops. I think some of these games owe their success to flukes or perfect timing. There's a massive vacuum that needs filling and suddenly a decent title pops up that escalates to ridiculous cult status. I thought Fallout was clunky and slow back in the 90s but there was absolutely nothing like it at the time.
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Jan 31, 2011 01:57
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ted_himself posted:How hard would it be to make a quick and dirty JA2 ripoff, really? It doesn't NEED to be fancy 3d or anything. Why does a game have to be a remake or a new title to regain attention? JA2 is still awesome on its own. And it has a thorough patch that is actively developed. So are dozens of other titles in my backlog. The market can crank out AAA zombie shooters and coffee puzzlers all it wants to, time will prune back the crap, and the good stuff will still sell years later. And get added to my backlog. OTOH, one remake title I'm excited about seeing developed is http://panzer-corps.com/, a remake of Panzer General with some thoughtful modern refinements.
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Jan 31, 2011 02:10
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Jagged Alliance 2 is being remade right now with a Q4 release date. There is definite interest in older games being remade and I could spout off a a very long list of games I'd love to see get an HD upgrade. Question is though, how much money is in it? How many of us would actually pay retail prices for games we've bought multiple times already? Nintendo has been making serious bank on remakes and re-releases for years, but they keep coming out with new proprietary hardware for their remakes.
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Jan 31, 2011 02:14
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kuddles posted:I find it ironic that the only thing that comes up more often than "games aren't innovative enough these days and are just rehashes" in this thread is "I wish developers would spend their resources making exact duplicates of older games with HD budgets". To be honest, I have no idea what "innovation" means any more. That word is all over the place but so far as I can tell the only thing it seems to refer to is novelty Nintendo peripherals. I don't want anything new, I guess. I want the old stuff but prettier, more refined, and in widescreen.
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Jan 31, 2011 04:39
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doctorfrog posted:Why does a game have to be a remake or a new title to regain attention? JA2 is still awesome on its own. And it has a thorough patch that is actively developed. So are dozens of other titles in my backlog. The market can crank out AAA zombie shooters and coffee puzzlers all it wants to, time will prune back the crap, and the good stuff will still sell years later. And get added to my backlog. Because most people won't want to play JA2 since it's so dated. Why do you think you can get the brand new Madden for full price, or the one from two years ago that's almost identical for like 1/4 the price? People like new poo poo. I am people. I want a JA2 that looks awesome, has better AI and will have tons of user mods and a fresh new community and MP support etc,etc.
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Jan 31, 2011 14:11
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Ironic that we're talking about the pleasure of remaking games with slight alterations, and you contrast this with buying the year's  new Madden.
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Jan 31, 2011 14:38
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ted_himself posted:I think this is an awesome post, BUT there is something to be said for wanting rehashes of old games that were good and innovative in their time and haven't been repeated for whatever reason.
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Jan 31, 2011 14:54
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The occasional remake isn't the same thing as a yearly franchise though. Look what happened to Need For Speed after they started making GBS threads them out every year, the franchise is only now starting to recover with Shift and the new Hot Pursuit after a string of 4 or 5 utter failures. How is that the same as a one off remake of a classic?
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Jan 31, 2011 15:05
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Innovation doesn't come from a vacuum. I think of it as: the majority of the computer game market today is composed of people who were not part of the computer game market when Jagged Alliance 2 came out. So we don't necessarily know how popular it would be with them, what parts they would really like and want to see in other games, what ideas they'd want to change... If I can say "Man, there really hasn't been a game with X for at least five years," where X is something some people like, then there's a problem. We need to keep the idea-bucket churning so that new game-life can form in it.
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Jan 31, 2011 16:08
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Well there is the Jagged Alliance 2 remake coming out. We'll see how that does.
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Jan 31, 2011 16:12
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A Fancy 400 lbs posted:The occasional remake isn't the same thing as a yearly franchise though. Look what happened to Need For Speed after they started making GBS threads them out every year, the franchise is only now starting to recover with Shift and the new Hot Pursuit after a string of 4 or 5 utter failures. How is that the same as a one off remake of a classic?
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Jan 31, 2011 16:17
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Woozy posted:Any chance of Syndicate getting the GOG treatment? Or Shadow Watch? Or X-Com? I just need more games like X-Com, okay? Shadow Watch: Owned by Ubisoft, so it's possible. X-Com: Owned by 2K Games. I don't think they're on GOG, are they? Entire series is on Steam if you can't wait.
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Jan 31, 2011 16:32
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The Kins posted:Syndicate: Owned by EA, so probably not for a good while yet. Syndicate was an awesome game so that sucks we'll have to wait on that one.
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Jan 31, 2011 21:43
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For all of you dudes lamenting the lack of innovation in today's titles compared to those on GOG, here's what Roberta Williams thinks of your games.Roberta Williams posted:Back when I got started, which sounds like ancient history, back then the demographics of people who were into computer games, was totally different, in my opinion, then they are today. Back then, computers were more expensive, which made them more exclusive to people who were maybe at a certain income level, or education level. So the people that played computer games 15 years ago were that type of person. They probably didn't watch television as much, and the instant gratification era hadn't quite grown the way it has lately. I think in the last 5 or 6 years, the demographics have really changed, now this is my opinion, because computers are less expensive so more people can afford them. More "average" people now feel they should own one. Just a little bit of perspective.
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Jan 31, 2011 21:46
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MrMidnight posted:Syndicate was an awesome game so that sucks we'll have to wait on that one. EA will never rule out the possibility of tossing a bunch of old games on a DVD and calling it something like "EA: The Early Years" so I wouldn't expect much.
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Jan 31, 2011 21:48
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Roberta Williams is full of poo poo
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Jan 31, 2011 21:49
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Even if she's right, there are still more smart cool people with computers today than there were back then, because there are more people with computers period. So a market exists! But yeah, way to be a smug douche about it Roberta. "Goddamn plebes complaining about arbitrary deaths in their hunt-the-pixel games!"
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Jan 31, 2011 21:55
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Sign of educated, wealthy elite audience of the past compared to gutter slum enthusiasts of today: made Softporn Adventures one of the biggest game successes ever
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Jan 31, 2011 21:56
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I wish they would remake Softporn Adventures. The modern porno watcher, watching more television, living in an instant gratification era, is just too crude and stupid to really appreciate the classics.
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Jan 31, 2011 22:00
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I don't see anything wrong with her comments really. Playing Black Ops is hilarious. "Headshot" "Buzzkill" "M60 Marksman II" "Level Up!" "Long Distance!" "Comeback!" <-- All from one shot. More and more games are having achievements too. Like pretty much all of them, including flash games. People want to see progress, and they want to see it NOW!
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Jan 31, 2011 22:05
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Cooler old school dude Al Lowe:quote:Adventure games were perfect for the eighties, especially the early eighties when you had to be a geek just to own a pc, let alone boot it up and get anything to run on it! As using DOS meant managing config.sys and autoexec.bat files, it took a puzzle solver comfortable with command lines and used to spelling correctly just to run the computer. There was no spell check back then – PC’s were totally unforgiving. All these things were perfect for our adventure games, which I guess were just perfect for the market at the time. Were dudes wealthy educated gaming ubermensch back in the ideal past or were they big gay nerds with the time and patience to deal with Roberta Williams' terrible game design. Hmm.
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Jan 31, 2011 22:20
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