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Elmo Oxygen posted:To be honest, that doesn't surprise me. KQ8 was basically a mediocre Zelda clone with everything done in shades of brown. It wasn't a good game, but it was a very accessible one, and it bears the inexplicably-but-consistently-revered King's Quest name. Grim Fandango, though, wasn't a recognized series (although granted "by the creators of Monkey Island" probably carries much weight) and had a much weirder setting and premise (and an amazingly poo poo-awful control scheme). Also, purely anecdotally, I remember seeing a shitload of advertising for KQ8, whereas Grim Fandango I heard basically nothing about and, in fact, thought was some sort of brawler until 2005 or so when I got back into adventure gaming.
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Feb 1, 2011 04:08
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I have to say the Sierra stuff couldn't totally be a scam. I completed Police Quest 1 and 2 without spoilers and paid dearly for it. I had to restart each of them countless times, but the good thing about those was that you could really blow through set pieces you've encountered before. What works against KQ5 is that you have to work and wait to get to a lot of those set pieces. At least, that's what it seems like to me.
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Feb 1, 2011 04:14
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I don't believe Williams' ego-tripping about bringing in new gamers. She had a larger marketing budget but the type of people who bought Kings Quest 8 were not so diverse from the type that would have bought Grim Fandango, even though it was one of the worst KQ games. Most PC gamers in 1998 read at least one magazine (sales versus magazine distribution numbers at the time). Grim Fandango was reviewed as a classic, people still didn't buy it, despite every point and clicker being compared to it for years to come. Just one of those lovely inexplicable cases where people shy away from a slightly quirky game.
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Feb 1, 2011 04:29
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AxeManiac posted:This is like utterly horrible news. On all fronts, that so many people purchased Mask of Eternity, that Grim Fandango didn't beat it and that Roberta "Cat Hair Beard" Williams thinks this is a good thing. To be fair, Roberta Williams had nothing to do with cat hair beard, that was the Gabriel Knight series.
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Feb 1, 2011 04:59
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90,000 copies of grim fandango were sold in the year of it's release. 90,000. Saddest game failure ever, it really, really deserves a bigger audience. EDIT: MAN I just booted the game up and the level of presentation and writing is so far beyond the majority of games even today. Amethyst fucked around with this message at 05:06 on Feb 1, 2011 |
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Feb 1, 2011 05:03
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on the subject of NES games: Contra - fast, not too hard, fun co-op Castlevania 3 - lots of branching paths, pretty hard but not ridiculous
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Feb 1, 2011 05:11
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Amethyst posted:90,000 copies of grim fandango were sold in the year of it's release. The Last Express sold a hilariously low amount, IIRC
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Feb 1, 2011 05:12
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I just wanna say I bought The Last Express the moment I saw it on gog and now I have a whopping 2 examples of incredible games made more incredible by having scripted events that happen on a timeline whether you like it or not (thanks Star Control 2 for existing) this game is the poo poo and everyone who ever liked anything good should buy it play it and love it peace out
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Feb 1, 2011 07:25
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Drox posted:Am I missing any big ones? There are lots of games that I like, both currently and formerly, but I'm not sure they'd all stand up as "good" games anymore. For instance, I love the heck out of The Guardian Legend, but it suffered from a lot of the limitations of the time. - Star Tropics (still haven't played the sequel) - Metal Gear (unless you insist on the MSX original that is) - Duck Tales - Chip 'n Dale: Rescue Rangers Games I simply liked that might not be favorites of others: - Power Blade - Shatterhand - Nintendo World Cup (a Tecmo game really) - Vice: Project Doom - The Ninja Gaiden games are a tough call because they're mercilessly hard and I've never beaten any of the original three. Good production though. - Most of the vertical/horizontal shooters were arcade ports that MAME and console re-releases have invalidated
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Feb 1, 2011 07:33
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I forgot the first four, but it is debatable as to whether or not Metal Gear is an actual good game and besides, yes, it is not an "NES" game.
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Feb 1, 2011 07:36
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signalnoise posted:I just wanna say I bought The Last Express the moment I saw it on gog and now I have a whopping 2 examples of incredible games made more incredible by having scripted events that happen on a timeline whether you like it or not (thanks Star Control 2 for existing) this game is the poo poo and everyone who ever liked anything good should buy it play it and love it peace out This. I only played about an hour and was amazed by the story, voice acting and originality. Awesome game.
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Feb 1, 2011 08:23
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Speaking of adventure games, new release! Return to Zork. $6. Has graphics.
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Feb 1, 2011 12:10
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The Kins posted:Speaking of adventure games, new release! Return to Zork. $6. Has graphics. "Want some rye? 'Course ya do!" I can still hear it. I last played that game when I was 8. I can still hear that voice.
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Feb 1, 2011 12:20
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gently caress you Return to Zork. gently caress you so hard.
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Feb 1, 2011 12:34
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Gonkish posted:"Want some rye? 'Course ya do!" "Here's to us! Who's like us? drat few! And they're all dead!"
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Feb 1, 2011 13:06
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al-azad posted:But we've embraced the bullshit design and turned it into a masochistic sub-genre of its own. Super Meat Boy and I Wanna Be the Guy wouldn't be as popular as they are if it weren't for trying to make that one loving jump in TMNT or getting past the speed bike part in Battletoads. Well, first, what's this "we" stuff? Super-hard platforming is not a universally loved thing. Although, uhhh, I love it, so I guess I shouldn't complain... Second, Super Meat Boy is a brilliantly designed game which has a million key differences from Battletoads that make it much far less punishing and "bullshit." You have infinite lives; when you die, you're able to start over in less than a second; it takes less than a minute to finish almost every level; there's tons of optional challenges that let you customize your own level of difficulty. There was something that made some people try to push themselves through TMNT, Ninja Gaiden, or Battletoads. I did not have that thing, yet I enjoyed VVVVV a lot, and a bunch of other random indie releases on a similar theme. Have I changed? Or are the games better?
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Feb 1, 2011 13:59
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Doc Hawkins posted:There was something that made some people try to push themselves through TMNT, Ninja Gaiden, or Battletoads. I did not have that thing, yet I enjoyed VVVVV a lot, and a bunch of other random indie releases on a similar theme. Have I changed? Or are the games better? I would be willing to lose every memory of playing those horseshit games if I could've had Super Meat Boy in 1994.
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Feb 1, 2011 14:06
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Amethyst posted:90,000 copies of grim fandango were sold in the year of it's release. It's strange that some of the best games to come out of the early noughties and nineties for PC were despite being critically acclaimed struggled commercially. Sacrifice, Freespace, Arcanum, etc And yet there's still people buying them now realising just how much they missed out on
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Feb 1, 2011 14:18
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So how does Return to Zork play? Is it a traditional point and click with an inventory and item combination or is it slideshowy like Myst. I never gave it more than 10 minutes during my GameTap days, but have always been interested.
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Feb 1, 2011 14:36
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The NES had some good games, but it definitely was in that whole arcade>home transition period where games just were a bitch because that was the norm. I've seen some really good ones mentioned already, but no mention of: Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles 2 & 3 - Some of the best beat em ups of the era, lots of fun in Co-op. gently caress Turtles 1. River City Ransom - The first hybrid of beat em up and rpg and I'm actually surprised how long it took for people to pick up on this. This game was all sorts of awesome. I've seen some very nice games mentioned on this list. The NES is a real iffy point for me. It was my first console, not that I played a ton of its games while I had the system, it's mostly been through emulation. I developed a hatred for Mario on the NES, which all started in World 8-1/8-2 and lasted oh I dunno probably until a few years back when Smash Bros came out and you could beat the poo poo out of Mario. Paperboy is a game I always wanted to love, played a poo poo of on the NES and ALWAYS sucked at. Even now, you'd think, hey I'm older, I'm smarter, better at games, I'm gonna play some Paperboy. About 5mins later: gently caress this game, gently caress the NES, I'm gonna play the Genesis or SNES. Edit: I can't speeel. vvv: Yeah I really wished that game came out for a system I owned. I did at least enjoy the RCR game on the GBA/DS tho. Bats fucked around with this message at 15:30 on Feb 1, 2011 |
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Feb 1, 2011 14:43
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The Scott Pilgrim game is an obvious tribute to River City Random though it doesn't seem quite as deep. I haven't spent enough time with it yet but the action is good.
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Feb 1, 2011 15:14
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Hussar posted:So how does Return to Zork play? Is it a traditional point and click with an inventory and item combination or is it slideshowy like Myst. I never gave it more than 10 minutes during my GameTap days, but have always been interested. As someone who used to be a GameTap fanatic before they went downhill, I'm dead certain GT never had Return to Zork. They had Zork Grand Inquisitor, which came afterwards.
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Feb 1, 2011 15:56
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macnbc posted:As someone who used to be a GameTap fanatic before they went downhill, I'm dead certain GT never had Return to Zork. They had Zork Grand Inquisitor, which came afterwards. You're right, that's the one I was thinking of. Though I'm sure we had Return to Zork in house and I had to play it for one reason or another. Does Return play similar to Grand Inquisitor, because I don't have fond memories of that game. edit: Whoa, were you on the official Gtap forums with the same username? I swear i recognize it. Hussar fucked around with this message at 16:13 on Feb 1, 2011 |
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Feb 1, 2011 16:01
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Coolio posted:I super doubt Kings Quest V (and the series in general) was so obtuse because they wanted to make people go to hint lines. Earlier text adventures for example never had them and were even less forgiving, and by the time KQV was out there already existed online communities that had hints. Being able to make the game unwinnable by design was just how things were back in the day. You might doubt it, but it's true. It's been stated pretty reliably in the past (i.e. by former Sierra people) that the company often sold more hintbooks than actual copies of the games they were for. Piracy was really easy back then. The only Sierra series I was able to complete without resorting to outside help was the Quest for Glory series, which was always a weird sort of outlier. And by far the best series.
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Feb 1, 2011 16:04
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ElProducto posted:There's a great scene in Icewind Dale 2 that uses this. There's a dead cat in a warehouse early in the game and you can pick it up. If you hold on to it until you run into a certain party in the same area, the leader notices it and the conversation that ensues goes something like this - A friend of mine told me a story about the use he found for the dead cat; before talking to that NPC or getting the quest, he dropped it in an area that was particularly maze-like and difficult to navigate. He said "I knew that if I got lost, all I would have to to was look for the dead cat and I could find my way from there."
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Feb 1, 2011 16:27
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Hussar posted:So how does Return to Zork play? Is it a traditional point and click with an inventory and item combination or is it slideshowy like Myst. I never gave it more than 10 minutes during my GameTap days, but have always been interested. It's slideshowy like Myst. It's also one of those "do something wrong and you're hosed and have to start over" games in the fine tradition of Sierra. I somehow managed to finish it back in the day but it had a ton of bullshit moments. However, I am tempted to buy it simply so I can re-experience "Want some rye? 'Course you do" again. It's the one part of that game that everyone remembers. It's also one of Return to Zork's first bullshit puzzles that I got stuck on.
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Feb 1, 2011 16:59
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ElProducto posted:"Here's to us! Who's like us? drat few! And they're all dead!" "I need a new battery. Can you hear me? A NEW BATTERY!"
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Feb 1, 2011 17:40
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Genpei Turtle posted:It's slideshowy like Myst. It's also one of those "do something wrong and you're hosed and have to start over" games in the fine tradition of Sierra. I somehow managed to finish it back in the day but it had a ton of bullshit moments. Thanks, I'll stay away this title then. Still have a few cartoony point and clicks to finish on steam and I don't think I can handle any game that reminds me of Myst for the next decade.
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Feb 1, 2011 17:50
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Nanpa posted:It's strange that some of the best games to come out of the early noughties and nineties for PC were despite being critically acclaimed struggled commercially. Sacrifice, Freespace, Arcanum, etc I think the issue with all of these games is that they're A) Unique/niche ideas that are hard to compare to more popular titles to give the mainstream crowd some idea of what they're like, and B) They weren't very well marketed so even people who would have liked them might not even have heard of them. Publishers have problems spending too much on original game ideas because they hate taking risks. And of course, the lack of marketing support means the game flops and justifies their belief that the game was a poor investment.
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Feb 1, 2011 19:19
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Buff Butler posted:You might doubt it, but it's true. It's been stated pretty reliably in the past (i.e. by former Sierra people) that the company often sold more hintbooks than actual copies of the games they were for. Piracy was really easy back then. Also $50-60 in 1983 money, for a text adventure, was a lot of money.
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Feb 1, 2011 20:38
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Why was Obscure pulled from GOG?
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Feb 1, 2011 21:37
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Return to Zork? Never heard of it.
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Feb 1, 2011 21:51
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GreenBuckanneer posted:Why was Obscure pulled from GOG? Don't know who the publisher is, but my best guess would be that either the Licensing Agreement ended or somebody is in legal trouble and asked that all their games be pulled. This poo poo happens all to often.
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Feb 1, 2011 21:57
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Amethyst posted:90,000 copies of grim fandango were sold in the year of it's release. Actually, back in those days 100,000 units was a modest success. It's only in recent years that games have been expected to be million plus sellers to be successful. I-War/Independence War (also on GOG, buy them now!) sold around 150,000 copies back around 1997/1998, with not especially impressive marketing - at least in Europe, the US re-release was handled much better with amazing box art and adverts - and that was enough to greenlight a sequel. Of course the sequel arrived just as the bottom dropped out of the space-sim market, so it didn't even sell that much despite being well reviewed, possibly partly due to an almost invisible marketing campaign and a terrible box design that didn't give you any idea of what the game really was. It'd be interesting to see how many copies have been sold on GOG so far.
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Feb 1, 2011 22:37
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Fag Boy Jim posted:The Last Express sold a hilariously low amount, IIRC The Last Express came out just as Borderbund was bought out with stock options by the Learning Company. The marketing department quit just before the game was released. There was little fanfare or advertisement for the game, and the Learning Company didn't want to do anything with the title so the initial print run of 100,000 units were all that were produced if I remember right. Just enough to break even on the four year development time and costs. edit: Broderbund probably got out with a decent chunk of change for the small amount of games it published or designed, 420 million in 1997/98 was nothing to scoff at. Party Plane Jones fucked around with this message at 23:00 on Feb 1, 2011 |
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Feb 1, 2011 22:57
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Return to zork easily has the most illogical, unfair puzzles I've ever seen in an adventure game, even worse than the king's quest games. One puzzle, where you have to cross a bridge over a chazm of lava, requires you to throw your entire inventory into the lava. This stops the bridge collapsing somehow. Missed a single item from anywhere in the game before that? gently caress you, start again! This is the only game that made me waste money on a hint line. EDIT: Zork Nemesis and Grand Inquisitor are, on the other hand, really great games. Nemesis in particular is one of the most atmospheric games I've played, although the interlaced graphics may detract from that now. Amethyst fucked around with this message at 23:45 on Feb 1, 2011 |
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Feb 1, 2011 23:41
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I believe I rang the Simon the Sorceror II hint line once. That game had its fair share of quite ridiculously absurd puzzles. All I can remember is 'if you would like help with removing the troll from the bridge, press 2', and the fact that the hint line actually tried to dissuade you from asking for hints when you rang up. Ah, hint lines.
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Feb 1, 2011 23:59
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Amethyst posted:Return to zork easily has the most illogical, unfair puzzles I've ever seen in an adventure game, even worse than the king's quest games. That sounds a lot like the same trick they used at the end of the HHGTTG game, where if you missed any item in the game (including stuff from your house in the very beginning, which you have a time limit on gathering since if you take too long you get killed by a bulldozer), Marvin will ask you for it at the very end (if you did everything right, he asks you for something specific that you will actually have).
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Feb 1, 2011 23:59
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Bats posted:River City Ransom - The first hybrid of beat em up and rpg and I'm actually surprised how long it took for people to pick up on this. This game was all sorts of awesome. I mentioned this when I made the first part of "the list." Just sayin.  RCR ruled. It still does.
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Feb 2, 2011 04:19
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Amethyst posted:Return to zork easily has the most illogical, unfair puzzles I've ever seen in an adventure game, even worse than the king's quest games. I don't think I got that far. I gave up on it after deadending again (something about picking up a bra), and that ridiculous sliding block puzzle. Also, if you don't pick up a flower at the beginning of the game, and store it properly, you're hosed.
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Feb 2, 2011 06:28
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