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SamuraiFoochs posted:Has any wrestler ever said a bad word about Undertaker? I know he's basically universally loved, but has ANYBODY ever spoken ill of him? London, Kendrick, Steiner, Sheik, anybody? London and Kendrick both poo poo on him in their shoot, iirc. They both laughed about his pyro burning him from that PPV last year. They painted him as an egotist.
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Feb 3, 2011 05:33
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Shadalator posted:London and Kendrick both poo poo on him in their shoot, iirc. They both laughed about his pyro burning him from that PPV last year. They painted him as an egotist. The fact that Undertaker CATCHING ON FIRE caused him to just stride a little bit faster still blows me away, let alone the fact that he then had his match. Everybody else seems to really respect him, so I'm firmly in the,"Well I guess London and Kendrick are just dicks then," camp, which is a shame.
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Feb 3, 2011 05:38
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Jerusalem posted:The fact that Undertaker CATCHING ON FIRE caused him to just stride a little bit faster still blows me away, let alone the fact that he then had his match. Everybody else seems to really respect him, so I'm firmly in the,"Well I guess London and Kendrick are just dicks then," camp, which is a shame. I was gonna say, London and Kendrick really seem to act like bitter dicks most of the time.
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Feb 3, 2011 05:54
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SamuraiFoochs posted:I was gonna say, London and Kendrick really seem to act like bitter dicks most of the time. More so London. In their shoot, Kendrick seemed to have just accepted that he hosed up his own push after working so hard to finally get it.
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Feb 3, 2011 06:02
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Jerusalem posted:The fact that Undertaker CATCHING ON FIRE caused him to just stride a little bit faster still blows me away, let alone the fact that he then had his match. Everybody else seems to really respect him, so I'm firmly in the,"Well I guess London and Kendrick are just dicks then," camp, which is a shame. There were a lot of reports of Undertaker being an rear end in a top hat backstage between 2000 and 2002. I remember reading that in the Torch and such. While London and Kendrick can be bitter dicks, these are guys who had no issue with Hardcore Holly. Maybe they both had legit issues with Taker? I don't want to sound like an apologist, but it's wrong to assume Taker is perfect too.
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Feb 3, 2011 06:03
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Bald-n-Nekkid posted:More so London. In their shoot, Kendrick seemed to have just accepted that he hosed up his own push after working so hard to finally get it. So did Kendrick also legit poo poo on Taker or was he just finding the pyro thing funny in goofy stoner fashion? EDIT: I realize Taker isn't perfect probably, but I feel like 2000-2002 was the Taker equivalent of druggie HBK. That is to say, his onscreen ego and possible backstage ego appeared to be at their peak during this time and seem to have dialed down.
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Feb 3, 2011 06:03
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Jerusalem posted:The fact that Undertaker CATCHING ON FIRE caused him to just stride a little bit faster still blows me away, let alone the fact that he then had his match. Everybody else seems to really respect him, so I'm firmly in the,"Well I guess London and Kendrick are just dicks then," camp, which is a shame.
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Feb 3, 2011 06:05
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LividLiquid posted:That's a bit of an exaggeration. They didn't so much poo poo on him as say they respected him but they thought wrestler's court is an absolute joke. So really nothing against Taker specifically then, just the "system"? I ask this because I was trying to figure out anyone more genuinely respected and loved in some cases more than Taker and the only person I could think of was Owen.
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Feb 3, 2011 06:08
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LividLiquid posted:That's a bit of an exaggeration. They didn't so much poo poo on him as say they respected him but they thought wrestler's court is an absolute joke. Ahh well that I'm sure most people can agree with.
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Feb 3, 2011 06:16
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If DDP weren't such a chill, awesome guy I could see him bashing Taker. He'd have every right to, as well.
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Feb 3, 2011 06:27
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Captain Charisma posted:If DDP weren't such a chill, awesome guy I could see him bashing Taker. He'd have every right to, as well. poo poo, how could I forget DDP for title of "most universally respected dude ever"? DDP owns.
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Feb 3, 2011 06:31
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SamuraiFoochs posted:So really nothing against Taker specifically then, just the "system"? Austin probably wouldn't have a ton of respect for Owen if he hadn't have passed, I don't think. Not considering how he handled the aftermath of the piledriver incident.
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Feb 3, 2011 07:13
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undertaker was a huge fan of "wrestlers court" on some of the wwe's international tours, as reported, and was usually the the "judge" of a superficial trial of small instances of petty bullshit that happened, usually dragging on to an annoyingly long hour in the morning to serve a point to hazing or younger guys, if you can believe the stories. one of the offenses if i remember was sitting in first class on a plane without first offering your seat to a "veteran". petty bullshit like that alot of younger guys ended up quitting over. the hardy boys talk about it in their book at more length although i've never read it and lance storm has talked about it before.
PoO3 fucked around with this message at 07:24 on Feb 3, 2011 |
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Feb 3, 2011 07:20
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Beer_Suitcase posted:It really depends on the promotion and how little of a name you have. I got anywhere from as little as $10.00 to the astronomical sum of $55.00 and I was a total nobody. If you are a big local name you can ask for $75 to $100 a show or more. I don't understand why Indie organizations struggle financially. Say you have 14 wrestlers performing and they each get paid 50 bucks. That's 700 bucks. If you have a hundred people in attendance each paying ten bucks, that's 1000 bucks. After the start up costs of buying a ring, that seems like a good business deal, doesn't it? I understand that traveling might eat that money, but I don't see why you can't have a regional model still working today. Say you have a wrestling fed, and they always operate in Philly once or twice a month. Why does this not work?
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Feb 3, 2011 07:21
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Toadofsky posted:I don't understand why Indie organizations struggle financially. Say you have 14 wrestlers performing and they each get paid 50 bucks. That's 700 bucks. If you have a hundred people in attendance each paying ten bucks, that's 1000 bucks. After the start up costs of buying a ring, that seems like a good business deal, doesn't it? I understand that traveling might eat that money, but I don't see why you can't have a regional model still working today. Say you have a wrestling fed, and they always operate in Philly once or twice a month. Why does this not work? You haven't rented a building yet. You haven't promoted the show yet. You haven't hired security. You haven't paid for insurance (not for the wrestlers, HA! No, for the fans in attendance). And on and on and on. You don't just set up a ring somewhere and suddenly have a show happen with 100 people randomly walking up and paying you  .
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Feb 3, 2011 07:26
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El Duke posted:Austin probably wouldn't have a ton of respect for Owen if he hadn't have passed, I don't think. Not considering how he handled the aftermath of the piledriver incident. I certainly hope Austin sent an apology letter to Masa Chono, then. 
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Feb 3, 2011 07:27
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Bald-n-Nekkid posted:I certainly hope Austin sent an apology letter to Masa Chono, then. Well, he tried offering him a beer, but... well, you can imagine how that ended up.
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Feb 3, 2011 07:27
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Toadofsky posted:If you have a hundred people in attendance This is why this does not work. You're underestimating how hard it is to get people to come to your show. The costs for renting a place that can hold that many people, and then getting that many people to actually show up (which requires promoting the Hell out of an event), are what makes running a wrestling fed a losing financial proposition in anything other than EWR.
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Feb 3, 2011 07:28
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Toadofsky posted:I don't understand why Indie organizations struggle financially. Say you have 14 wrestlers performing and they each get paid 50 bucks. That's 700 bucks. If you have a hundred people in attendance each paying ten bucks, that's 1000 bucks. After the start up costs of buying a ring, that seems like a good business deal, doesn't it? I understand that traveling might eat that money, but I don't see why you can't have a regional model still working today. Say you have a wrestling fed, and they always operate in Philly once or twice a month. Why does this not work? You have to pay to rent a venue. You have to pay security, refs, possibly part of the gate to a commission, and in some states you need an ambulance standing by. Then you need to look into the insurance laws. You also need to pay people above the lowest of the low for their transportation. 14 wrestlers gives you 7 singles matches. Most of the time you will need more than just singles matches. You also won't just pay everyone $50 bucks if you want to draw 100 people. So a few guys are going to make $100 or more, plus transportation. Add all of this together and you are spending way more than $1,000 to put on this show. If you run a bare bones operation in Philly once or twice a month you are not going to draw 100 people.
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Feb 3, 2011 07:29
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You also need to advertise, pay for venues, cover any applicable insurance costs that might come up, bring in paying customers, pay for security, sort out concession stands, any merchandising that you're doing (and run the risk of being undercut by your own wrestlers selling stuff out of the back of their cars) etc. It eats up money fast and most indies struggle to get more than a few people to their shows, and at the risk of sounding derisive, they're probably going to be poor white trash who don't have much in the way of disposable income to splash out on in the first place.
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Feb 3, 2011 07:30
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SamuraiFoochs posted:poo poo, how could I forget DDP for title of "most universally respected dude ever"? DDP owns.
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Feb 3, 2011 07:31
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LividLiquid posted:DDP is far from universally respected. A ton of people think he can't work because he pre-plans his matches down to the last detail and can't really deviate from that plan or call audibles if poo poo goes wrong. Many also thought he was being pushed in WCW because he was Bischoff's neighbor.
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Feb 3, 2011 07:31
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El Duke posted:You haven't rented a building yet. You haven't promoted the show yet. You haven't hired security. You haven't paid for insurance (not for the wrestlers, HA! No, for the fans in attendance). And on and on and on. You don't just set up a ring somewhere and suddenly have a show happen with 100 people randomly walking up and paying you I hate these facts and I wish they were not so. I love the WWE but sometimes I wish the old timey regional feds still existed. I would love to have a local wrestling promotion that I could go to and it'd have a story and it would have a nice little ECW environment.
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Feb 3, 2011 07:34
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MassRayPer posted:Many also thought he was being pushed in WCW because he was Bischoff's neighbor. Or because he was wife-swapping with Bischoff.
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Feb 3, 2011 07:37
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jeffersonlives posted:Or because he was wife-swapping with Bischoff. Why must this business shatter my illusion of anything good 
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Feb 3, 2011 07:41
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jeffersonlives posted:Or because he was wife-swapping with Bischoff. Why would you swap Kimberly for anyone? Except maybe HBKs wife. 
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Feb 3, 2011 07:46
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MrMondayNight posted:Why would you swap Kimberly for anyone? To get a ridiculous push from your next door neighbor!
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Feb 3, 2011 07:48
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One more point about wrestlers' court: I could have sworn that I heard that baseball does it too, and possibly other sports do it as well, but it's more commonly known as kangaroo court, and it's mainly a "let's all joke around to break up the tedium of a long season" thing and not a "let's make the young guys sit through lots of bullshit to pay their dues" thing.
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Feb 3, 2011 08:40
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Best wrestlers' court story I ever heard was when the guy who was supposed to be on trial freaked out and ran away, accidentally locking the "court" into a toilet in the arena. By the time they got out, they were all laughing so hard they told the guy (I think it was Joey Mercury) that all was forgiven.
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Feb 3, 2011 08:59
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I think it was Mercury and the people locked in were The Undertaker, JBL and someone else. Edit: apparently the someone else was Chris Benoit and Kid Kash. Also may not have been Mercury but Chad Wilks. Lid fucked around with this message at 09:08 on Feb 3, 2011 |
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Feb 3, 2011 09:04
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CVagts posted:One more point about wrestlers' court: I could have sworn that I heard that baseball does it too, and possibly other sports do it as well, but it's more commonly known as kangaroo court, and it's mainly a "let's all joke around to break up the tedium of a long season" thing and not a "let's make the young guys sit through lots of bullshit to pay their dues" thing.
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Feb 3, 2011 09:05
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El Duke posted:You haven't rented a building yet. You haven't promoted the show yet. You haven't hired security. You haven't paid for insurance (not for the wrestlers, HA! No, for the fans in attendance). And on and on and on. You don't just set up a ring somewhere and suddenly have a show happen with 100 people randomly walking up and paying you Ahahaha. Pay security. Is that something they do in the U.S.? Wait, I've gone to a U.S. show before and all of the security was either trainees or guys who came to the show and hoped there was a spot open. Most promotions have insurance for the fans because if you don't, a rival promoter will rat you out and your show will get cancelled. I've seen insurance under $500 but I can recall that Scott D'Amore's insurance was quite expensive because I believe he insured everyone. Veteran halls are popular to rent because they tend to have their own insurance for patrons. Wrestlers have no insurance because they usually sign a waiver. Well, smart promoters get them to sign a waiver. Besides, it's rare for a wrestler to sue a promoter/booker. Hall rentals are either free or $250 and up. Schools tend to charge more than $500 unless you have an in or they agree to co-sponsor (colleges will sometimes do this). Ring rentals tend to be anywhere between $250 and $500 as well. It's much smarter to own your own ring, but if you do, you'll likely be paying gas to haul it around. The promotion I'm currently working for pays the majority of talent under $100 but will sometimes toss in for travel. The booker originally had a hard time paying for Robbie MacAllister at $250 plus hotel (Not that he argued it but he originally didn't want to bring him in until Robbie's price dropped to $250) but he enjoyed his time in the company so much he gave him extra for coming out. Also, trainees do not get paid until completely trained. All security is volunteers/trainees/wrestlers who wanted to get booked but didn't so in other words: FREE. The venue they pay a monthly rental because they run the school in the basement. We tend to draw between 100-150. I believe we make a little money, but we honestly wouldn't if we tried booking the better talents in Toronto. However, there's no need to when you can give a trainee a goofy cartoon gimmick and he suddenly gets bigger reactions than Kevin Steen in Ottawa. Toadofsky posted:I hate these facts and I wish they were not so. I love the WWE but sometimes I wish the old timey regional feds still existed. I would love to have a local wrestling promotion that I could go to and it'd have a story and it would have a nice little ECW environment. Well, where do you live? Any promotion that has a small local TV deal is going to run storylines every month. Paper Jam Dipper fucked around with this message at 09:24 on Feb 3, 2011 |
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Feb 3, 2011 09:22
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Lone Rogue posted:Besides, it's rare for a wrestler to sue a promoter/booker. Considering the fraternal nature of Wrestling, I can see anyone who gets litigious against the promoters would be exiled faster than you can blink. PoO3 posted:undertaker was a huge fan of "wrestlers court" on some of the wwe's international tours, as reported, and was usually the the "judge" of a superficial trial of small instances of petty bullshit that happened, usually dragging on to an annoyingly long hour in the morning to serve a point to hazing or younger guys, if you can believe the stories. one of the offenses if i remember was sitting in first class on a plane without first offering your seat to a "veteran". petty bullshit like that alot of younger guys ended up quitting over. the hardy boys talk about it in their book at more length although i've never read it and lance storm has talked about it before. The incidence you're referring to was when the Hardy boys won the Tag Team for the first time. Their manager dragged them up to first class on the plain and stole Kane's seat while he was waiting for another wrestler to turn up at the airport because he had his tickets. Also, yes it is court for petty bullshit, but the "sentences" are usually petty as well, usually resulting in "buy the victim a box of beers" or "carry his bags for him for a week". While Undertaker used to be the judge all the time, apparently JBL was a pretty fervent prosecutor.
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Feb 3, 2011 11:45
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Does anyone remember which thread the exert from Jericho's book about that video was posted in? Edit: Don't worry, I found it. I went right past it when I was skimming the WWE thread. I'll check out those JBL videos anyway, was his feud with the Undertaker any good? Sue Denim fucked around with this message at 12:57 on Feb 3, 2011 |
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Feb 3, 2011 12:47
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One last thing on London and Kendrick v. Undertaker- They made it pretty clear in their shoot that, their distaste for wrestler's court notwithstanding, Undertaker himself was alright to them. They hated the way people would act around him, though. The (based on their other stories of politics and bullshit) Joey Mercurys of the world would turn into complete suck-up cunts when Taker walked into a room.
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Feb 3, 2011 13:44
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Lone Rogue posted:There were a lot of reports of Undertaker being an rear end in a top hat backstage between 2000 and 2002. I remember reading that in the Torch and such. While London and Kendrick can be bitter dicks, these are guys who had no issue with Hardcore Holly. Maybe they both had legit issues with Taker? I don't want to sound like an apologist, but it's wrong to assume Taker is perfect too. Generally raging dickheads find other raging dickheads to be good people, so the fact that they're really cool with Hardcore Holly probably hurts the case for them not being assholes more than anything. Also, if I was walked into a vacant bathroom area with Undertaker, JBL and Chris Benoit, I would run, too, because gently caress.
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Feb 3, 2011 14:51
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sportsgenius86 posted:Also, if I was walked into a vacant bathroom area with Undertaker, JBL and Chris Benoit, I would run, too, because gently caress. Two dead people and a Texan?!
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Feb 3, 2011 16:43
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Toadofsky posted:I don't understand why Indie organizations struggle financially. Say you have 14 wrestlers performing and they each get paid 50 bucks. That's 700 bucks. If you have a hundred people in attendance each paying ten bucks, that's 1000 bucks. After the start up costs of buying a ring, that seems like a good business deal, doesn't it? I understand that traveling might eat that money, but I don't see why you can't have a regional model still working today. Say you have a wrestling fed, and they always operate in Philly once or twice a month. Why does this not work? Also, if I could party with any two wrestlers it'd be Kendrick and London. Those guys are the best.
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Feb 3, 2011 16:50
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SamuraiFoochs posted:Why must this business shatter my illusion of anything good
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Feb 3, 2011 16:55
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Sugar Blaster posted:If the wives were both down to swing, who gives a poo poo? If anything, Bischoff's wife probably benefited from an injection of Vitamin D. I'm absolutely convinced that when DDP busts it's like 100% concentrated serotonin.
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Feb 3, 2011 17:10
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