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Hm. So if the Hunchback and probably the Wolverine are willing to get close (using cover and I assume elevation to avoid the worst of enemy fire) then the more fire support-y mechs can blast them into bits? It of course all depends on deployment and terrain (and dice and luck and support elements and and and) but at least everyone's role should seem pretty clear. If the weaker Blackjack and Vindicator can be taken out quickly with a combination of close range and long range fire, those two heavier mechs could be focused down. I guess, anyway. Don't take my advice, I was the guy in the flea last night that got alpha'd into a hole in the ground on the first turn.
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Feb 3, 2011 19:16
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Dolash posted:Hm. So if the Hunchback and probably the Wolverine are willing to get close (using cover and I assume elevation to avoid the worst of enemy fire) then the more fire support-y mechs can blast them into bits? In your defense, that was pretty awesome. Edit: And a Fire Ant-variant Flea would be pretty handy right now. Zeroisanumber fucked around with this message at 19:20 on Feb 3, 2011 |
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Feb 3, 2011 19:17
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Question: can our scouts spot for indirect LRM fire while staying invisible?
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Feb 3, 2011 19:18
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Short summaries: WHM-6L Warhammer Tonnage: 70 Movement: 4/6/0 Armor: 10 tons Heat Dissipation: 18/turn Weapons: 2 PPCs. Damage 10, Heat 10, 6/12/18 (minimum 3) 2 medium lasers. Damage 5, Heat 3, 3/6/9 2 small lasers. Damage 3, Heat 1, 1/2/3 1 SRM6. Damage 2-12, Heat 4, 3/6/9 [15 shots] 2 Flamers. Damage 2, Heat 3, 1/2/3 (maximum of 38 heat for a running alpha strike) VND-1R Vindicator Tonnage: 45 Movement: 4/6/4 Armor: 9 tons Heat Dissipation: 16/turn Weapons: 1 LRM5. Damge 1-5, Heat 2, 7/14/21 (minimum 6) [24 shots] 1 PPC. Damage 10, Heat 10, 6/12/18 (minimum 3) 1 medium laser. Damage 5, Heat 3, 3/6/9 1 small laser. Damage 3, Heat 1, 1/2/3 (maximum of 20 heat with a jumping alpha strike) CTF-1X Cataphract Tonnage: 70 Movement: 4/6/0 Armor: 11 tons Heat Dissipation: 16/turn Weapons: 4 medium lasers. Damage 5, Heat 3, 3/6/9 1 PPC. Damage 10, Heat 10, 6/12/18 (minimum 3) 1 AC/10. Damage 10, Heat 3, 5/10/15 [10 shots] (maximum of 27 heat with a running alpha) BJ-1 Blackjack Tonnage: 45 Movement: 4/6/4 Armor: 8.5 tons Heat Dissipation: 11/turn Weapons: 2 AC/2. Damage 2, Heat 1, 8/16/24 (minimum 4) [45 shots] 4 medium laser. Damage 5, Heat 3, 3/6/9 (maximum of 18 heat with a jumping alpha) My thoughts: That Cataphract is going to be a massive pain in the rear end. It's tough as nails and packs one hell of a punch. The Warhammer is similar, though it isn't quite as well-armored and has some heat issues. It also has two Flamers, so keep your poor footsloggers away from it (and it might try to torch the hostages!). The Vindicator has some nice long-range firepower but is a wee bit out of his league in this matchup. The Blackjack is only going to be more than a nuisance at short range and is overall your least worry. Other than that: The Lancelot and Bobby's Wolverine can outmaneuver all of these Mechs and none of them is going to look forward to a short-range slugfest with a Hunchback, save perhaps the Cataphract. I concur on concentrating on the Warhammer if possible. Axe-man posted:any flame weapon is effective against infantry there is reason why flame weapons are forbidden by NATO rules and the Geneva convention don't allow the use of them. So if you want to have fun use a flamer on them you sick bastards. That's an urban myth. For one, the Geneva Conventions only regulate proper treatment of prisoners of war. And NATO never had a ban of classic flamethrowers as much as that they became redundant on the modern battlefield. After all, nobody ever had problems with the continued use of napalm, white phosphorus and funny toys like the M202 Flash incendiary rocket launcher. Nowadys, it's getting evne more fun with thermobaric weapons. 
Magni fucked around with this message at 19:27 on Feb 3, 2011 |
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Feb 3, 2011 19:18
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Zeroisanumber posted:I'd concentrate on the Warhammer first. That'd take care of a lot of the other side's long-range capability, and then you can have the Hunchback play linebacker and force them to come to the Lancelot, Rifleman, and Catapult through a hail of AC/20 fire. Just hope the infantry forces can hold the Capellan infantry off of the hostages until then. The most dangerous mech is the cataphract because it doesn't have the crippling disadvantage of having to move first (although with smart use of the command special ability even that isn't so dangerous). You have to get close to rescue the hostages anyway so might as well just try to close the gap ASAP. Everyone's piloting skill and armor is good enough to take a few ppc shots, even the rifleman's armor that people are complaining about can stand up to the abuse (it sacrifices rear armor for front armor so is about as armored as the lancelot from the front).
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Feb 3, 2011 19:22
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Arglebargle III posted:(They're also fantastically flexible. I find pulse lasers don't cut it when it comes to shooting mechs, but beam lasers don't deal with lighter targets well. X-Pulse fries everything (including yourself) and quick too!) Personally my current Solaris ride is a Hauptmann with a Heavy Gauss, a Heavy Large Laser in each arm and then two Heavy Medium Lasers in the torsos. It does mean things when the Gauss and Hvy Larges are in the one group. Dolash posted:That Warhammer looks like a beast. There doesn't seem to be a range at which it isn't utterly deadly. What's the counter to it besides everyone gang up on it and pray it goes down before it can destroy more than one of you?
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Feb 3, 2011 19:23
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LeschNyhan posted:Question: can our scouts spot for indirect LRM fire while staying invisible? The snipers can, but can't shoot to do it. The sapper can't.
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Feb 3, 2011 19:24
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Yeah, there's a reason the Warhammer has graced about as many Battletech covers as the Mad Cat. It is a loving MONSTER, in any configuration, and besides getting within it's PPC minimum range dropoff, there are very few good counters. That said, the Cataphract IS our biggest threat here.
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Feb 3, 2011 19:25
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Wow, too bad we don't have much in the way of anti-infantry on the mechs. Looks like our best tactic will probably be to fend of their infantry with our infantry while trying to get them to surrender by killing the enemy mechs.
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Feb 3, 2011 19:28
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I didn't see my last post on the Mechwarrior list: I want to join the Mechwarrior list and my email is taken So since the enemy mechs are long ranged with minimums, doesn't that negate our Riflemen and Catapault? Slaan fucked around with this message at 03:59 on Feb 27, 2011 |
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Feb 3, 2011 19:28
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Jesus christ not one but two people are posting summaries other than me now? *looks at his notepad file with everything nice and formatted, throws it away sadly* (e: lord that's even the same format I use! Well, I guess I don't need to be doing these if there will be COMPETITION over it) Well, then. I would worry that there are Liao reinforcements nearby. Four mechs built mainly for long range combat in a lance would raise the hairs on the back of my neck, especially since you guys have a numerical advantage in terms of Mechs. PTN isn't that nice.
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Feb 3, 2011 19:28
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I think this is going to be a really interesting scenario. I think we have the advantage in mechs, but I imagine they have the advantage in pilot skill, so it won't be an easy win. Added to that the time limit, and even winning will feel hollow. "Sorry Colonel, but your wife and son were both executed in a most brutal fashion, but on the plus side, we did win!" Mukaikubo posted:Well, then. I would worry that there are Liao reinforcements nearby. Four mechs built mainly for long range combat in a lance would raise the hairs on the back of my neck, especially since you guys have a numerical advantage in terms of Mechs. PTN isn't that nice. Didn't even consider this, but now that you mention it... Be prepared for the unexpected 
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Feb 3, 2011 19:30
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Oh snap, now it's time for the other half! WHM-6L Warhammer  poo poo son, it's on now. The Warhammer is another Unseen, and one of the toughest mothers in this era. You're looking at the full package - twin PPCs for solid damage at long range (and the heat sinks to use it), backed up by a ridiculous package of smaller guns that can really ruin your day up close. The 'Hammer's big weakness in this era is the armor - the legs in particular are severely underprotected. But this is a seriously nasty piece of work, so watch out. VND-1R Vindicator  The prototypical Cappie mech, the Vindicator is fairly similar to the Combine's symbolic Panther. A mini-heavy, it only moves 4/6/4 but has near max armor for it's size, a PPC/LRM5 combo at range and the heat sinks to use it from now until doomsday. Speed aside, the Vindicator is a sweet little package that I'm personally a big fan of. She's steady, capable and no-frills. CTF-1X Cataphract  Nicknamed 'Frankenstein' by Davion mechwarriors for it's ugly looks, the Cataphract is still a capable heavy. The PPC/AC10 combo translates to a punch heavy as the Warhammer, albeit swapping some range for heat efficiency. The Cataphract also notably mounts a pair of medium lasers pointed rearward as defense. An ugly but not particularly exciting mech, but it does a sufficient job. BJ-1 Blackjack  This isn't the same machine we saw last match. The -1 version drops those large lasers for... a pair of AC2s. Fluff states it was designed for fire support and counter-insurgency. In practice, it functions mostly as a laugh of "You fielded a what?".
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Feb 3, 2011 19:32
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KnoxZone posted:I think this is going to be a really interesting scenario. I think we have the advantage in mechs, but I imagine they have the advantage in pilot skill, so it won't be an easy win. Added to that the time limit, and even winning will feel hollow. I would be having nightmares about a pair of Jenners hidden in the woods, waiting to swoop down on the backs of our close in brawlers. 
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Feb 3, 2011 19:32
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I liked mechwarrior 3 pulse lasers, i use to make that sound and then make bad Star wars jokes all the time. wewobwobwovwobwobwobwobwov you all are trying to decide which one to focus on? I suggest you use a screening force to distract them and have a few people taking out the infantry personally. Axe-man fucked around with this message at 19:37 on Feb 3, 2011 |
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Feb 3, 2011 19:32
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Magni posted:My thoughts: I mostly agree with this. Our key problem at the start is that we are heavily outranged. We very likely will lose a long ranged fight. The key for us is going to be the two speedies and the Hunchback. If they can get close, they'll be able to tear the Cappies apart. Initial suggestion: Hunchback and Wolverine close the gap while keeping to cover. Lancelot takes a flank path, staying in the open to lay down fire as it does so. Rifleman and Catapult provide covering fire for the advance and pray to not take too many PPC hits in the process. Initial fire should be concentrated on the Cataphract to give the best opportunity to our brawlers. Dependent on terrain and infantry positions, of course.
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Feb 3, 2011 19:38
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Mukaikubo posted:Jesus christ not one but two people are posting summaries other than me now? *looks at his notepad file with everything nice and formatted, throws it away sadly* (e: lord that's even the same format I use! Well, I guess I don't need to be doing these if there will be COMPETITION over it) The cataphract and vindicator aren't really at their best at long ranges.
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Feb 3, 2011 19:40
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Didn't PTN say something about the infantry surrendering if all mechs and vehicles were disabled?
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Feb 3, 2011 19:41
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Longinus00 posted:The cataphract and vindicator aren't really at their best at long ranges. The Cataphract, maybe, but the Vindicator? Its only weapons of real use are an LRM and a PPC; that seems like a long range focused build to me. edit: quote:Didn't PTN say something about the infantry surrendering if all mechs and vehicles were disabled?  ... 
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Feb 3, 2011 19:41
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He also mentioned that snipers could target Vehicles....
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Feb 3, 2011 19:43
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Angry_Ed posted:Didn't PTN say something about the infantry surrendering if all mechs and vehicles were disabled? ....There's a hidden SRM Carrier there somewhere with our name on it. I just know it.
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Feb 3, 2011 19:46
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Or a...whatever variety of tank packs an AC/20 for a main gun
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Feb 3, 2011 19:48
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quote:....There's a hidden Demolisher there somewhere with our name on it. I just know it. I fixed that for you
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Feb 3, 2011 19:48
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Do you know the major difference between Large Laser and PPC? Lasers do 8 damage, PPCs do 10. Head location has 9 armor. Last match we didn't see any head hits, and PTN has notoriously freaky rolling luck. Someone will ride the lightning. Mark my words.
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Feb 3, 2011 19:48
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Mukaikubo posted:I fixed that for you I was going to suggest a couple Brutus, but Demolishers work too.
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Feb 3, 2011 19:49
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Y'all are so (justifiably) paranoid.
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Feb 3, 2011 19:52
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PoptartsNinja posted:Y'all are so (justifiably) paranoid. Whelp, Im glad I ain't a mechwarrior this round. Next round is when I get PTNed.
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Feb 3, 2011 19:54
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bunnyofdoom posted:Whelp, Im glad I ain't a mechwarrior this round. Next round is when I get PTNed. You and me both, man.  God help us if we're first in the "Clan Shooting Gallery" box.
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Feb 3, 2011 19:59
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Tempest_56 posted:I mostly agree with this. Our key problem at the start is that we are heavily outranged. We very likely will lose a long ranged fight. The key for us is going to be the two speedies and the Hunchback. If they can get close, they'll be able to tear the Cappies apart. The range difference of the mech compositions isn't that big. They have 3 mechs with ppcs (and one blackjack...) while we have a lrm mech, a ppc mech, and an AC5 mech. Angry_Ed posted:Didn't PTN say something about the infantry surrendering if all mechs and vehicles were disabled? Vehicles are such a joke. The only way it would be really scary is if they're either had AC20 tanks or LRM carriers. Mukaikubo posted:The Cataphract, maybe, but the Vindicator? Its only weapons of real use are an LRM and a PPC; that seems like a long range focused build to me. A LRM 5 does almost no damage, it's basically there to make sure the vindicator has ammo to blow up with. The vindicator's armor and mobility really make it a more useful at medium ranges where it can take some of the heat off of your brawlers.
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Feb 3, 2011 20:01
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Honestly, the one big advantage the good guys have here is a couple pretty quick units. The Cappies are slow, especially compared to a Lancelot. If the Wolverine and Lancie can snipe a bit while going around the flank, and then get a turn or two of backshots on something scary like the Warhammer or Cataphract, that could really swing the game. Especially considering the caliber of weapons that would be aimed at the Cappies' rear armor there. Something like that could put the Caballeros in the driver's seat in a hurry, and considering the firepower that the Death Commandos have there, I'm not sure if a regular old stand-up fight is very winnable...so it might be one of the only options, too. The WHM needs to go down first, since it is the biggest threat to your slower units at range, and because of the SRM-6 + other secondary weapons it can do a number on anything that gets close, which presumably would be beat up by the time you get into knife-fighting range anyway. So that's a problem. Overall, if the good guys can trade 2 for 2 taking out the WHM and CTF while only losing two mechs, that should be good enough for the remainder to clean up...especially if that remainder is the CPLT, LNC and WVR, which is by far the most likely scenario I think. It's pretty much guaranteed that the Caballeros will lose multiple units though.
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Feb 3, 2011 20:02
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Longinus00 posted:
Vehicles are a joke, yes, but an LRM barrage from an LRM carrier into your rear torso armor is still just as deadly as if it came from a mech. Heck any rear attack from a vehicle could be a problem. It was more just saying that just because PTN listed that lance you're going against doesn't necessarily mean it's the only mechanized element out there.
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Feb 3, 2011 20:05
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I like the sudden moral drop PTN has crafted. So much excitement at the introduction of our lance, then suddenly PPCs everywhere and the threat of an unknown vehicle(s). Stay strong, mighty Caballeros! Let them taste crazy  death today!
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Feb 3, 2011 20:06
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Question: I was looking at the map, and I noticed that there was a point where all the Successor States' borders meet. What's there? Earth?
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Feb 3, 2011 20:08
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Xmas Future posted:I really like Riflemen in spite of all the reasons I shouldn't. To be fair, all of the re-seen version of the Rifleman are pretty objectively awesome. Especially the 6X, which turns it into a fast jumping cavalry mech with a pair of fuckoff LBX-10's.
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Feb 3, 2011 20:09
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paragon1 posted:Question: I was looking at the map, and I noticed that there was a point where all the Successor States' borders meet. What's there? Earth? Yup. Comstar lives there, I think.
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Feb 3, 2011 20:11
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paragon1 posted:Question: I was looking at the map, and I noticed that there was a point where all the Successor States' borders meet. What's there? Earth? You guessed it. That's Terra right there. Currently under management of
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Feb 3, 2011 20:16
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Longinus00 posted:The range difference of the mech compositions isn't that big. They have 3 mechs with ppcs (and one blackjack...) while we have a lrm mech, a ppc mech, and an AC5 mech. I disagree. Over range 15, they're packing a potential 49 damage, most of it in 10 point clusters. At the same range, we're packing 50 damage, most of it in 5 point clusters and 60% of it invested in LRMs that will usually hit for half as much. Additionally, they're better armored than we are - remember the Rifleman is less durable than most mediums and the Lancelot has an XL engine. Oh, and we're heavily limited by ammo, they're not. A range duel is a losing proposition for us. We get an advantage once we're inside 15 hexes, and get a HUGE advantage once we're within 9. We need to get close and maul them. quote:Vehicles are such a joke. The only way it would be really scary is if they're either had AC20 tanks or LRM carriers. You are sorely, sorely underestimating conventional armor.
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Feb 3, 2011 20:16
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AtlantisMantis posted:I like the sudden moral drop PTN has crafted. So much excitement at the introduction of our lance, then suddenly PPCs everywhere and the threat of an unknown vehicle(s). Stay strong, mighty Caballeros! Let them taste crazy I think this will be the typical procession of events for each mission: PTN: Here's the setup. Thread:  PTN: Here's your forces. Thread:  PTN: Here's the bad guys. Thread: PTN: Here's an innocuous comment about things to come. Thread: 
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Feb 3, 2011 20:23
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PoptartsNinja posted:Y'all are so (justifiably) paranoid. Truly, you are the father of all lies and the uncle of all tricks. Still, I don't think we're quite as screwed as people think we might be. Yes, there are still vehicles and infantry on the enemy side that PTN hasn't divulged yet, but there's also assets of our own we haven't been fully taking into account. For starters, we have the Sapper. Once every other turn, he can either blow up some enemy infantry, or he can force an enemy mech to make a piloting check. We don't know what the enemy's piloting skills are like compared to ours (most likely comparable; worst case scenario, better) and I don't know what all failing a basic piloting check would mean in terms of game mechanics (if they fail, do they fall down or something?), but it's still worth noting that we have the ability to do so. The 'Tech Platoon is another asset we start off with already on the field. SRM unit with anti-Mech training sounds like it'd best be used to provide cover for our long range units, try to keep the enemy from closing in on them. I'm not sure it'd be wise to attempt to use them against enemy infantry, or trying to move them in close to enemy lines, but we'll figure that out once we see the layout of the battlefield. The Snipers show up on turn 4 and depending on how many infantry PTN's fielding on the Commandos' side, will most likely have their hands full trying to thin out their numbers. A well-placed sniper shot could also potentially cripple a vehicle, which could in turn give the mechs some breathing room. Not really sure what to make of the Scout Company; anti-infantry with some anti-Mech capability starting on the 5th turn, needs to be in close to make a significant impact. As far as Marisol's concerned, Distracting Tirade is the way to go. If we screw up and somehow manage to spectacularly miss with every single shot we fire (unlikely, but possible), that's a 50% chance of saving a hostage each turn; otherwise, it's a 16-17% chance. Mock and Berate's a bit more dicey... around 66-67% chance of her saving a hostage regardless of how much damage we do, but with a 33-34% chance of her getting  'd herself... after which we have a 100% of losing a hostage each turn. So it's all down to how lucky Polaron feels and how much PTN's dice love us.So yeah, those are our non-Mech assets. They don't seem like much, but they're still assets; it all lies in just how well we can utilize them.
W.T. Fits fucked around with this message at 20:32 on Feb 3, 2011 |
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Feb 3, 2011 20:23
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^^^ By 'Smoke' grenades, I mean they're using Trinity Smoke. White Phosphorous. AKA, incendiary grenades that can burn through 'Mech armor. You guys would have less fun if I didn't torture you with a lack of information.
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Feb 3, 2011 20:25
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