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PoptartsNinja posted:All of the above, plus: If you have a system to hold a laser on target perfectly and make minute adjustments to keep it pointed perfectly at a jumping Wasp that's over ten kilometers away, why the gently caress aren't you using the same system on a larger scale to headshot everyone with a large laser? ... Your answer answers one question but raises another: why aren't the Northwind Highlanders large-laser-slinging headcapping mofos? All you'd need is two LLs on any given mech. Everywhere they pass, they should leave a trail of silent hulks in their wake, perfectly fine save for the lack of a head...
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Feb 7, 2011 05:32
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My idea for this turn. Move to 324, so I'm still in woods, and open up with PPC and both M lasers on blackjack, see if I can cause some poo poo. Also, move the sapper closer to the hostages.
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Feb 7, 2011 05:37
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ShadowDragon8685 posted:... They're stereotypical space-scottsmen.
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Feb 7, 2011 05:52
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bunnyofdoom posted:My idea for this turn. Move to 324, so I'm still in woods, and open up with PPC and both M lasers on blackjack, see if I can cause some poo poo. I'd bang on about the Blackjack being a worthless target, but if he's going to hang his rear end all the way out like he is, you might as well oblige him and give it a kick. Try to stay at low heat for when the big boys come out to play though.
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Feb 7, 2011 05:54
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ShadowDragon8685 posted:... I was under the impression that the laser comms system has an elaborate reception system that allows the sending unit to lock onto it. That wouldn't be weaponized very well, because you'd have to be able attach one of those targeting units to the appropriate area on the enemy and then hope it's still operational during combat to let your lasers track it, etc. At best you get something like a NARC beacon but less effective.
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Feb 7, 2011 05:54
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Are NARCs reinvented at this point? Because the NARC mechanics are hilarious, with the whole "my missiles hit you automatically because they follow NARC! Now my missiles hit me because he counter-NARCed me!"
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Feb 7, 2011 06:01
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Radios that use lasers instead of radio waves is the most hilariously impractical sci-fi tech I've ever heard of. Worse than the anti-aircraft missiles that launch robots from Revenge of the Sith. I mean I know BattleTech is all about giant robots blowing each other up and that's cool and all, but laser-radios are just silly.
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Feb 7, 2011 06:04
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Bread in a can posted:I mean I know BattleTech is all about giant robots blowing each other up and that's cool and all, but laser-radios are just silly. Which is the other reason why pretty much nobody else uses them. Even the Clans technically broadcast (encrypted) on an open channel... and even unencrypted, their comlang is basically unintelligible to non-clanners.
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Feb 7, 2011 06:07
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Zeroisanumber posted:I'd bang on about the Blackjack being a worthless target, but if he's going to hang his rear end all the way out like he is, you might as well oblige him and give it a kick. Try to stay at low heat for when the big boys come out to play though. This keeps being mentioned, but is - I'm sorry - pretty dumb. Yes, it doesn't have a lot of firepower and is low priority. However, to meet either objective it needs to be destroyed, it's still at least a little dangerous and it's the only target that isn't long range if not out of range entirely. Ignoring a valid and mission-critical target when no others are presenting themselves is dumb. It's a Cappellan, it's in range, it needs to die.
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Feb 7, 2011 06:08
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Bread in a can posted:Radios that use lasers instead of radio waves is the most hilariously impractical sci-fi tech I've ever heard of. Worse than the anti-aircraft missiles that launch robots from Revenge of the Sith. You'd be right, only we're actually developing laser radios right now as we speak for Earth-Mars communication. I mean, we've tested this, and we know it works. Optical communication is not, like, a "Really Impractical Thing", if the Mars Telecom Satellite hadn't been canceled it would have launched- equipped with laser radios- last year. Sorry, I am a pretty big space geek given that I am going into the industry, and when I see a statement this gloriously wrong I have to react. ninja edit: Yes, satellites with actual laser radios have communicated with each other. With laser radios. This is not science fiction. :|
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Feb 7, 2011 06:12
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bunnyofdoom posted:My idea for this turn. Move to 324, so I'm still in woods, and open up with PPC and both M lasers on blackjack, see if I can cause some poo poo. I can't see any way you could read 0324 in less than 7 move. So you're running anyway - I'd say 0423 or 0524 would be the better choice then. You're closer and have better cover. You're also at range 8 then from D4 - in medium range for the PPC and LLs, but long for the ML. The ML looks like an 11 to-hit, so not really worth the heat. But yeah. The PPC and pair of Larges only puts you at +2 heat and they've got 9s to hit (10s? I'm not 100% sure on the LOS through the woods), so go for it. Sapper's got no way to get closer to the hostages, though. Not without going through the open, which would be pretty immediate death with all the stuff back there.
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Feb 7, 2011 06:15
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Bread in a can posted:Radios that use lasers instead of radio waves is the most hilariously impractical sci-fi tech I've ever heard of. Worse than the anti-aircraft missiles that launch robots from Revenge of the Sith. PoptartsNinja posted:Which is the other reason why pretty much nobody else uses them. Even the Clans technically broadcast (encrypted) on an open channel... and even unencrypted, their comlang is basically unintelligible to non-clanners. .... http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Free-space_optical_communication I'm sorry, but I have to call bullshit on a technology we possess in 2011 - and have possessed since the 1960s - becoming LosTech. [edit]Ninja'd. 
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Feb 7, 2011 06:18
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Tempest_56 posted:I can't see any way you could read 0324 in less than 7 move. So you're running anyway - I'd say 0423 or 0524 would be the better choice then. You're closer and have better cover. You're also at range 8 then from D4 - in medium range for the PPC and LLs, but long for the ML. The ML looks like an 11 to-hit, so not really worth the heat. But yeah. The PPC and pair of Larges only puts you at +2 heat and they've got 9s to hit (10s? I'm not 100% sure on the LOS through the woods), so go for it. EDIT: Also, I meant, 0423, and large lasers. I'm just apparently dyslexic tonight
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Feb 7, 2011 06:18
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Mukaikubo posted:You'd be right, only we're actually developing laser radios right now as we speak for Earth-Mars communication. I mean, we've tested this, and we know it works. Optical communication is not, like, a "Really Impractical Thing", if the Mars Telecom Satellite hadn't been canceled it would have launched- equipped with laser radios- last year. Sorry, I am a pretty big space geek given that I am going into the industry, and when I see a statement this gloriously wrong I have to react. Satellites tend to move rather predictably and smoothly as opposed to short range communications that could have debris and poo poo blocking it and having to deal with taking missile hits and the like. In-universe, the closest most other groups come to using laser communications is the Death Commandos using laser fire in specific patterns from mechs or tanks on the ground to communicate with ships in orbit, akin to signal flares which isn't really the same thing. But it could be interestingly effective if PTN were to utilize it at some point. [EDIT] ShadowDragon8685 posted:.... They lack nukes, guided missiles/bombs, and a great deal of their heavy production technology as lostech. Some of it can be written off as an issue of the age of the setting. Consider a game like Shadowrun, which is cyberpunk. The setting is supposed to be futuristic, but up until 4E (I think it was) all the communications tech was crappier than what we had in the real world already, with the exception of the Matrix-persona system. Zaodai fucked around with this message at 06:25 on Feb 7, 2011 |
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Feb 7, 2011 06:19
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bunnyofdoom posted:Move to 1507, which is also heavy woods. In that case, yes, great idea! 
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Feb 7, 2011 06:21
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Zaodai posted:Satellites tend to move rather predictably and smoothly as opposed to short range communications that could have debris and poo poo blocking it and having to deal with taking missile hits and the like. The summary is that Laser Radios are a technology that works IN SPPPAAACCCEEEE.. seriously. The reason they don't work on the ground is that it's pretty impractical to maintain a LOS to the other elements of your unit constantly. What if you're in a city and there are buildings everywhere? Or trees? Or hills? Still, battletech lostech requires you putting your fingers in your ears and going LALALA on a number of occasions. While technology reversion has happened on earth, both to the US military: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/FOGBANK and to Australian aborigines, it doesn't really seem to happen where a widely dispersed society is communicating with itself.
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Feb 7, 2011 06:24
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bunnyofdoom posted:Move to 1507, which is also heavy woods. Yeah. As a rule of thumb, if you're going to walk, walk as much as you can; if you're going to run, run as much as you can. You take a penalty to hit something of a flat -1 if you walk and -2 if you run, while your penalty to BE hit varies depending on how many hexes you moved.
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Feb 7, 2011 06:24
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ShadowDragon8685 posted:.... Missiles (real missiles) with a range of over a kilometer are Lostech too. Incidentally, LRMs have a range of exactly 1 km. PoptartsNinja fucked around with this message at 06:27 on Feb 7, 2011 |
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Feb 7, 2011 06:24
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PoptartsNinja posted:Missiles (real missiles) with a range of over a kilometer are Lostech too. Yeah, I was more reacting to the hyperbolic statement that the very idea of laser radios was stupider than some mad thing in the Star Wars prequels. Battletech has a lot of stuff that is lostech for extremely sketchy fiction reasons and extremely good gameplay reasons.
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Feb 7, 2011 06:25
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Mukaikubo posted:Yeah, I was more reacting to the hyperbolic statement that the very idea of laser radios was stupider than some mad thing in the Star Wars prequels. Battletech has a lot of stuff that is lostech for extremely sketchy fiction reasons and extremely good gameplay reasons. I can accept weapons having a stupid-tarded short range because otherwise you'd need to floor a football stadium in hexes to have real ranges. But the lack of laser comms? No. Just no.
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Feb 7, 2011 06:29
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Similarly, I'm gonna walk to 0322 and open up on D4 with a LL and both AC5s. Should be 9s to hit. Seems like it's time to eliminate that Blackjack.
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Feb 7, 2011 06:30
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ShadowDragon8685 posted:I can accept weapons having a stupid-tarded short range because otherwise you'd need to floor a football stadium in hexes to have real ranges. But the lack of laser comms? The link you posted listed as "Disadvantages" a great deal of stuff that one might find on a battlefield. Lower tech, more reliable communications would probably tech precedence. As we pointed out, current laser communications are generally point to point over distances that are going to remain (relatively) clear. They're not strapped to giant robots that are going to be pounded with lasers, missiles and assorted ballistic fire while running through god knows what terrain. Additionally, for an in game reason: It lets you have a way to converse with the enemy (or them converse with you) if you need to for story reasons. I would think at best Dropships and Jumpships (and by extension, War Ships) would get the laser comms. The Highlanders are lucky they have mech based ones at all.
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Feb 7, 2011 06:34
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Bread in a can posted:anti-aircraft missiles that launch robots Wait, that was a dedicated anti-air weapon?!  Oh god, the more I think about these the more my brain hurts. I've heard of impractical, but I just thought he ran into a repair drone or something. Knowing that it was actually considered a weapon just makes the movies that much sillier. I'm so glad the worst BT has to offer is the Urbanmech.
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Feb 7, 2011 06:36
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Mukaikubo posted:Yeah, I was more reacting to the hyperbolic statement that the very idea of laser radios was stupider than some mad thing in the Star Wars prequels. Battletech has a lot of stuff that is lostech for extremely sketchy fiction reasons and extremely good gameplay reasons. I didn't mean to say the laser radios are stupid peroid. I meant to say that using them for short range communication between ground forces over traditional radios is stupid.
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Feb 7, 2011 06:38
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DatonKallandor posted:Are NARCs reinvented at this point? Because the NARC mechanics are hilarious, with the whole "my missiles hit you automatically because they follow NARC! Now my missiles hit me because he counter-NARCed me!" NARCs aren't invented yet, but one of the coolest pieces of new civil war-era tech is the iNARC. It can function like a normal narc beacon, but it can also use specialized pods that can create a localized ECM field on its target, or disrupt its targeting systems, giving it an accuracy penalty and the inability to spot for indirect fire. It's extremely tactically useful, especially on C3 or C3i nets, nail a spotter with an ecm pod or hit the c3 master, and you're ripped a huge hole in your enemy's offensive capabilities.
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Feb 7, 2011 06:42
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Bread in a can posted:I didn't mean to say the laser radios are stupid peroid. I meant to say that using them for short range communication between ground forces over traditional radios is stupid. At short ranges the main upside is communications security. Unless someone is directly between the sender and reciever, noone is listening in on their communications, period. More or less negates the need for encrypted transmissions etc.
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Feb 7, 2011 07:06
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Especially since there're non-lostech devices that'll pretty much crack most forms of radio encryption in just a few minutes.
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Feb 7, 2011 07:08
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There was a time not too long ago where humanity forgot the secret of plumbing for a few centuries. The Inner Sphere has at least the excuse in their best and brightest being targetted for death, and anything and everything that could affect the other side's ability to wage war was raided, or razed by retreating forces. When people really put their minds to it, they can beat themselves stupid.
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Feb 7, 2011 07:15
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PoptartsNinja posted:The Northwind Highlanders have lostech laser-comms (extremely expensive). They FLOOD every normal-radio comm channel with bagpipe music to inspire their own troops and gently caress over everyone else's communications. It's pretty neat, actually. That is just awesome. Now I need to pilot one of those and fabricate a giant kilt for the mech to wear. And I can blame my lovely dice rolls on too much scotch! trast@live.com for my email. Also my family history is actually irish but don't tell the other space-scottsmen that. 
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Feb 7, 2011 07:22
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Most plausible excuse for why laser comms don't lead to magical headshotting machines would be to assume that the reciever has some sort of tracking device on it, which isn't amazingly far-fetched as long as it's something difficult to detect otherwide.
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Feb 7, 2011 07:35
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lizurcainnon posted:There was a time not too long ago where humanity forgot the secret of plumbing for a few centuries. The Inner Sphere has at least the excuse in their best and brightest being targetted for death, and anything and everything that could affect the other side's ability to wage war was raided, or razed by retreating forces. Warring factions don't, as a general rule, target the other side's best and brightest for death, they capture them. We'll even go and bend the ruled to keep these people happy. Verner von Braun, for instance, was instrumental in the Vengeance rocket program. Instead of a war crimes tribunal followed by a short drop and a sudden stop, he and his family got to come to America, live well and basically go on to found NASA. Frankly, if you think about the history of the Inner Sphere, LosTech makes no goddamned sense whatsoever. But we just accept it and move on.
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Feb 7, 2011 07:53
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Pretty sure this was mentioned earlier in the thread, (but I'm not searching back 80 pages) but the reason for such crappy coms and lack of guided missles is because every wargame is still set in WWII.
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Feb 7, 2011 07:58
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Dominus Caedis posted:Pretty sure this was mentioned earlier in the thread, (but I'm not searching back 80 pages) but the reason for such crappy coms and lack of guided missles is because every wargame is still set in WWII. Yeah, pretty much. Nobody wants to play a wargame with a stacked deck, and WW2 is the one few periods in history when most of the sides were on a relatively even keel. As a result, most wargames tend to draw inspiration from it, which is also in large part due to it being viewed to a certain degree as the last 'good war,' where clear-cut good guys fought clear-cut bad guys, and there was never a question as to the righteousness of large-scale armed conflict. Of course to keep the sides interesting and justify said play-balance, pretty much every faction has to have the one group of really heroic Mary Sues, and the one group of cartoonishly villainous loonies. That way, everybody has someone to play AND someone to hate.
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Feb 7, 2011 08:07
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PoptartsNinja posted:Especially since there're non-lostech devices that'll pretty much crack most forms of radio encryption in just a few minutes. If you really really wanna send a super secret message to someone you've got line of sight with why just not use a radio transmitter that sends out a wave in a single direction? Like a RADAR that talks to people instead of detecting things. That way you could even talk to people who don't have your special radios. I didn't mean to offend anybody by saying that the tech in BT is silly. I used to love reading all the fluff and technical notes that the MechWarrior and MechCommander games had in the manuals. Yeah, real war tech is far more efficient and practical, but it doesn't make for a good science fiction story. Does real war have 100 ton robots punching other 100 ton robots in the face? No. Does it make sense? Not really. But it's awesome, and really that's what matters. ShadowDragon8685 posted:Frankly, if you think about the history of the Inner Sphere, LosTech makes no goddamned sense whatsoever. But we just accept it and move on. That's exactly the point I'm trying to make. I'm not trying to say the lore is poo poo because the tech doesn't make sense, I just think the idea of combat troops using lasers to communicate is just so far out there that it's funny. Bread in a can fucked around with this message at 08:15 on Feb 7, 2011 |
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Feb 7, 2011 08:08
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Agent Interrobang posted:every faction has to have the one group of really heroic Mary Sues, and the one group of cartoonishly villainous loonies. I love that, for the Federated Suns, both of those are 'Hanse Davion'
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Feb 7, 2011 08:11
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PoptartsNinja posted:I love that, for the Federated Suns, both of those are 'Hanse Davion' Poptarts, do you have us doing a 3025 game just so you can write Hanse Davion dialogue?
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Feb 7, 2011 08:48
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paragon1 posted:Poptarts, do you have us doing a 3025 game just so you can write Hanse Davion dialogue? Of course not. Hanse Davion exists to give people a reason to do 3025. 
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Feb 7, 2011 08:50
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PoptartsNinja posted:I love that, for the Federated Suns, both of those are 'Hanse Davion' Depending on if you're a fan of the Suns or not, yeah. But if you're a fan and need someone from the Suns to be a bad guy, then look no farther than New Syrtis, because everyone from there is a treacherous dick. I only wish I was kidding. Both this and the fact that all good Capellans come from St. Ives comes up a sourcebook about the formation of the Clans.
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Feb 7, 2011 08:56
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DeepThrobble posted:Depending on if you're a fan of the Suns or not, yeah. But if you're a fan and need someone from the Suns to be a bad guy, then look no farther than New Syrtis, because everyone from there is a treacherous dick. I'm going to surprise you all with Romano. She doesn't have anyone she has to compete with for her father's affection anymore.
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Feb 7, 2011 08:58
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Dominus Caedis posted:Pretty sure this was mentioned earlier in the thread, (but I'm not searching back 80 pages) but the reason for such crappy coms and lack of guided missles is because every wargame is still set in WWII. Yeah. That was me. Dropping truth bombs from my  I think the real reason is that WWII was the United States' last war. Period. Every war the United States has fought since then has really been a counter-insurgency or a punitive expedition. I'm serious about this. Look at our modern military machine. All the parts of our military that don't actually get used (everything except infantry and units that support infantry invasions) are designed to fight WWII on steroids. We have gobs and gobs of military assets that are essentially obsolete, although naming which ones will cause a huge shouting match that can't be decided either way so I won't. The parts of our military that we do use have been steadily shifting focus to counter-insurgency and punitive expeditions, and that's not something you can really feel good about war-gaming. I mean I guess you could make a dark, cynical wargame called Pax Americana where you ruthlessly dominate the politics of small impoverished countries and resource-rich regions... hmmm can you get patents on games? Arglebargle III fucked around with this message at 09:35 on Feb 7, 2011 |
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