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arioch posted:Games should have no impact upon "canon". There, I said it. gently caress TFU. Star Wars canon is pretty unique. Fiction canon is based on source material from the author, and its purpose is for all of the fans to agree that what we have in common is what is 'real'. We all don't read every book in the Expanded Universe. We all don't play the same video games. We all don't keep up with George's statements. They actually pay someone to keep track of that and assign levels. MHO? The fans really decide. I would vote for only the movies as originally released is canon. Everything else is just fodder because the movies are something every Star Wars fan has seen, guaranteed. Also TFU is fun, but the light side ending is confusing in context to the movies. If the Emps and Vader know that Organa was a traitor, then they would have just killed Leia outright instead of boarding the ship.
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Feb 8, 2011 05:30
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Fledgling Gulps posted:Did the tattoos you got in TIE Fighter have any mystical powers? Aside from glowing neon purple I mean. Pretty sure it was just a tattoo.
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Feb 8, 2011 05:33
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Catching up on this thread - Arioch must be a real hit at parties.
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Feb 8, 2011 05:37
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TheBigBad posted:Star Wars canon is pretty unique. Fiction canon is based on source material from the author, and its purpose is for all of the fans to agree that what we have in common is what is 'real'. This is why I'm a fan of personal canon. Mine includes the OT, several episodes of The Clone Wars (and Clone Wars), parts of the novelizations of the PT, and various bits and pieces of EU.
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Feb 8, 2011 06:01
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TheLoquid posted:Was there ever any justification for technological advances in a fantasy sci-fi universe? It would be like Lord of the Rings updating its technology. Arguably, most jRPGs like Final Fantasy are based on this idea.
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Feb 8, 2011 06:46
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I remember a time when I loved Star Wars just for the films, before I had any idea about the Extended Universe. I don't know if discovering Extended Universe is a blessing or a curse yet.
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Feb 8, 2011 06:47
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My personal canon does not include a vast majority of the prequel trilogy (and none of Phantom Menace), but it does include the entirety of the Star Wars Holiday Special.
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Feb 8, 2011 06:54
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Locutus Of Bored posted:My personal canon does not include a vast majority of the prequel trilogy (and none of Phantom Menace), but it does include the entirety of the Star Wars Holiday Special. When I was a kid, the things that happened before seemed so big and I thought that it was all thought out somewhere. I guessed that the prequels would be bad, just because it had been so long and there was no way they'd be done right. Thats why we have better movies, like The Fifth Element. Personal canon would end right where the movies stopped being just right: the end of the Jabba scenes (Boba Fett IS dead, mother bitches). Luke still was talking and acting weird for that whole movie though. Jedi can no longer act normal? When did that happen? They acted normal enough in the first two movies. Anyway Ewoks didn't ruin anything, just the way they set about doing the second half storywise.
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Feb 8, 2011 07:06
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I'll give the cartoon from the Holiday Special canon. I also like to think of the prequel trilogy as the way the story was told as if a guy heard it from a friend, who heard it from his cousin, who's mom once drove the Solo twins home from space soccer practice.
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Feb 8, 2011 07:06
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KaosFactor posted:I'll give the cartoon from the Holiday Special canon. I think officially it is. The Holiday Special is "S-Canon" which means while largely non-canon, aspects of it can be considered canon. I know Life Day as a concept is in the canon, and I believe that cartoon is too. Ninja_Orca posted:I wish that KOTOR II affected canon more. It was 4000 years ago, it'd be kinda silly if it did. Given the entire reason Bioware went back that far to begin with was so they could do whatever they wanted because anything that happened would be irrelevant by the time of the movies so they could do whatever. (I know Obsidian did 2, but they built off KOTOR 1) RagnarokAngel fucked around with this message at 09:08 on Feb 8, 2011 |
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Feb 8, 2011 09:05
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AmbassadorFriendly posted:I just can't imagine that the Empire is all that concerned with employee perks. And God, I hope not daycares. I don't want to turn Luke into Timothy McVeigh. They don't even put guard rails around the bottomless pits. Officially-sanctioned fanfiction or not, there's no way I'm believing there were any perks at all for the Death Star staff. They probably ate all their meals in the mess halls and bought anything they needed at the PX.
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Feb 8, 2011 09:12
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My personal canon is centered around Kevin J. Anderson. Darksaber is clearly the most vital element. 
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Feb 8, 2011 09:14
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Mister Roboto posted:"There are no gays in Star Wars." On a less  topic, I have a healthy appreciation for the concept of personal canon. I can't read all the books, watch all the cartoons, and play all the games. And a lot of the time, I don't WANT to. For me, accepting entire categories of canon is impossible, because it would mean choosing between shunning the RotS novel, and accepting Karen Traviss.
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Feb 8, 2011 09:27
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Splintered Penis posted:That crap was what put me over the edge from appreciating Bioware's contributions to a franchise I love to totally ignoring them for almost two years. It's a crummy experience to spend your childhood loving something and then have some jacked up asshat decree that a person like you logically can't exist within that universe. Yeah, I agree. Some sci-fi writers and fans can't come to grips that some of us nerds are gay, and they handle it in the worst ways. We can joke about nerds and escapism, but when I was a kid, I really needed Star Wars sometimes. When I finally came out to my parents, we watched ANH afterward to celebrate. Don't take that away from me because you're too socially inept to meet a gay person.
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Feb 8, 2011 09:42
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AmbassadorFriendly posted:Yeah, I agree. Some sci-fi writers and fans can't come to grips that some of us nerds are gay, and they handle it in the worst ways. We can joke about nerds and escapism, but when I was a kid, I really needed Star Wars sometimes. When I finally came out to my parents, we watched ANH afterward to celebrate. Don't take that away from me because you're too socially inept to meet a gay person. I would love to see queer characters in Star Wars. And no, creepy furry lesbians and vague allusions to Mandalorians settling down together will not satisfy me.
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Feb 8, 2011 10:11
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Sean was just a community manager for a game that hasn't been released yet. It has nothing to do with Star Wars and everything to do with lovely community management. He had no creative responsibilities, apologized almost 20months ago, and left Bioware over a year ago. If it really bugs you, Watto was obviously gay. He never settled down, he was channeling Nathan Lane's Albert Goldman from The Bird Cage the whole trilogy. For that matter, lesbians can have Shmi Skywalker. There was no father, just her and a turkey baster and her ex lover who left her.
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Feb 8, 2011 11:22
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I'm gay myself and the comment irked me at that person, not Bioware or Lucasarts. Like TheBigBad said he was basically a moderator on a forum he had no real power in how the games run, you shouldn't judge Bioware on that alone. As a company they've tried, at least on and off, to add gay romances. It's sometimes really hokey but the straight romances are too. For Lucasarts we have um...Karen Travis? I don't know where I wanted to go with this now that I'm here.
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Feb 8, 2011 11:31
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RagnarokAngel posted:I'm gay myself and the comment irked me at that person, not Bioware or Lucasarts. RagnarokAngel posted:For Lucasarts we have um...Karen Travis? I don't know where I wanted to go with this now that I'm here.
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Feb 8, 2011 11:37
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Splintered Penis posted:I don't think anyone blames either entity for that, though I could have come off that way seeing as I'm posting at four in the morning. It's just you said you ignored Bioware for 2 years, that came off to me as writing off the entire company over the words of one guy with no real standing. Sorry if that's not what you meant.
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Feb 8, 2011 11:38
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TheBigBad posted:Sean was just a community manager for a game that hasn't been released yet. It has nothing to do with Star Wars and everything to do with lovely community management. He had no creative responsibilities, apologized almost 20months ago, and left Bioware over a year ago. Everyone knew the "apology" was just the PR department scrambling to save face. Some workers there have said that his leaving was inevitable after that public meltdown. Rumor has it he knew he wouldn't be moving up in the company anymore after publicly telling the world he was an rear end in a top hat. Frankly, I'd rather we got TFUIII anyways.
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Feb 8, 2011 11:41
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RagnarokAngel posted:It's just you said you ignored Bioware for 2 years, that came off to me as writing off the entire company over the words of one guy with no real standing. Sorry if that's not what you meant. How the Hell do we feel about the Knight Errant comic, thread?
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Feb 8, 2011 11:46
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Mister Roboto posted:Frankly, I'd rather we got TFUIII anyways. Well that's Lucasarts fault. I think they're doing a book on it though. I'm sure it'll be just lovely.
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Feb 8, 2011 12:01
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As a bisexual sci-fi fan, I like to pretend that in the future things like sexuality doesn't matter and the reason why homosexuality is never mentioned is that it's not a big deal. I mean, if people are largely okay with inter-species relationships, same-sex relationships shouldn't be a problem, right? I know that doesn't explain the lack of non-straight relationships in the works, but it makes me feel more comfortable with the Star Trek and Star Wars universes. 
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Feb 8, 2011 12:08
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Admiral Goodenough posted:As a bisexual sci-fi fan, I like to pretend that in the future things like sexuality doesn't matter and the reason why homosexuality is never mentioned is that it's not a big deal. I mean, if people are largely okay with inter-species relationships, same-sex relationships shouldn't be a problem, right?  As far as I'm concerned, all that keeps it from being mentioned prominently in the media itself is the time in which the media is created.
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Feb 8, 2011 12:15
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Admiral Goodenough posted:As a bisexual sci-fi fan, I like to pretend that in the future things like sexuality doesn't matter and the reason why homosexuality is never mentioned is that it's not a big deal. I mean, if people are largely okay with inter-species relationships, same-sex relationships shouldn't be a problem, right? Gene Roddenberry pushed for this HEAVILY in Star Trek and was held back by Meddling Executives who didn't think the public could handle gays in space. For example, he flat out said Spock and Kirk were gay for each other, which *IS* the original fan slash pairing on the internet. On-screen, though, he wasn't as successful pushing that idea. So far, there's lots of female bisexuals and lesbians, but the execs are still afraid of male-male couplings. DS9's Garak is the closest thing, as he WAS played as bisexual at the start but was told to tone it down.
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Feb 8, 2011 12:36
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So I was reading Red Harvest (in the bookstore, smartasses, of course I won't shell out 30 bucks for like 200 small-sized pages of Space Dick and Jane with Zombies) and it literally has a character use Liam Neeson's whole "special set of skills" line from Taken, pretty much word for word. This is what Star Wars Authors (TM), working on a three month deadline or whatever, consider a bold tribute. There really isn't an  big enough.Admiral Goodenough posted:I know that doesn't explain the lack of non-straight relationships in the works B-but... Janson and Hobbie, amirite guys?
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Feb 8, 2011 12:48
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I think it's best that it's not addressed and assumed. None of the Star Wars writers really know how to write about a realistic straight relationship, what makes you think they'll know how to write a realistic homosexual one? There are some exceptions but most of them have been pretty bad.
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Feb 8, 2011 13:31
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Angry Midwesterner posted:So I was reading Red Harvest (in the bookstore, smartasses, of course I won't shell out 30 bucks for like 200 small-sized pages of Space Dick and Jane with Zombies) and it literally has a character use Liam Neeson's whole "special set of skills" line from Taken, pretty much word for word. This is what Star Wars Authors (TM), working on a three month deadline or whatever, consider a bold tribute. RocknRollaAyatollah posted:I think it's best that it's not addressed and assumed. None of the Star Wars writers really know how to write about a realistic straight relationship, what makes you think they'll know how to write a realistic homosexual one? There are some exceptions but most of them have been pretty bad.
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Feb 8, 2011 13:47
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Splintered Penis posted:You cannot be serious. A cursory glance at the book's Amazon page indicates it's impossible for that character to be Qui-Gon, so it's not even a wink wink nudge nudge allusion to the actor. It's just... gratuitous. Maybe they hoped no one noticed.
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Feb 8, 2011 13:50
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In Sci Fi generally there's all sorts of situations going on in regards to sexuality: Everybodys gay, everybody's bi, nobody is anything and it's all artificial insemination, etc. If one is a fairly dull, man, woman and 2 kids universe then v v there are other places to go for a better portrayal and discussion. I don't go to Star Wars for sexual politics, is what I guess I'm saying. No time for that when there are bounty hunters to kill.
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Feb 8, 2011 14:24
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RagnarokAngel posted:Maybe they hoped no one noticed.  RedTeam posted:I don't go to Star Wars for sexual politics, is what I guess I'm saying. No time for that when there are bounty hunters to kill.
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Feb 8, 2011 14:31
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Hmmmm, it's fair point I guess. On the one hand I didn't sit through Kotor thinking where all the black people were and then all of a sudden whoah Jolee Bindo. There was just this neat new character. On the other I'm a straight, middle class white guy who isn't as affected by negative/a lack of representation.
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Feb 8, 2011 14:51
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RedTeam posted:Hmmmm, it's fair point I guess. On the one hand I didn't sit through Kotor thinking where all the black people were and then all of a sudden whoah Jolee Bindo. There was just this neat new character. On the other I'm a straight, middle class white guy who isn't as affected by negative/a lack of representation. You're right on the money, though, with the kind of person you are affecting how you view media and a discussion like this. Many people can look at a discussion like this and ask, "Why does this matter? It's a non-issue," but this is often because it's a non-issue to them - they have nothing to gain from it. People from a marginalized group might see it differently, though, because they have a stake in it and feel its negative effects. Additionally, not everyone is as aware of this as you are. Or aware of it at all. ...Ugh, it's too serious in here.
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Feb 8, 2011 15:02
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Nerds. ^^^ (Also, if you think space-blackpeople representation is bad, think about space-asians. We got that one pilot dude, and then Neimoidians.)
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Feb 8, 2011 15:26
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I had to look it up, for anyone curious - "'Listen to me,' Trace told him. 'I don't know who you are, but I am in possession of a very special set of skills. If you bring my sister back right now, unharmed, then I'll let you go. But if you don't, I promise you, I will track you down. I will find you. And I will make you pay.'" Compared to I don't know who you are. I don't know what you want. If you are looking for ransom, I can tell you I don't have money. But what I do have are a very particular set of skills; skills I have acquired over a very long career. Skills that make me a nightmare for people like you. If you let my daughter go now, that'll be the end of it. I will not look for you, I will not pursue you. But if you don't, I will look for you, I will find you, and I will kill you.
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Feb 8, 2011 15:40
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arioch posted:Nerds. ^^^ Little bit  Something different: Watched the animated clone wars film last night and I was curious who did the voice acting for Ziro the Hutt. So a spot of wookiepedia later and I find out that Sy Snootles (Horrible CGI singer from Jabbas Palace), was romantically involved with Ziro and eventually killed him. What the hell? Is the whole Clone Wars series full of stuff like this? Cameos from stupid niche characters I mean.
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Feb 8, 2011 15:48
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arioch posted:Nerds. ^^^ That DICK! posted:I had to look it up, for anyone curious - RedTeam posted:What the hell? Is the whole Clone Wars series full of stuff like this? Cameos from stupid niche characters I mean.
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Feb 8, 2011 16:10
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Admiral Goodenough posted:As a bisexual sci-fi fan, I like to pretend that in the future things like sexuality doesn't matter and the reason why homosexuality is never mentioned is that it's not a big deal. I mean, if people are largely okay with inter-species relationships, same-sex relationships shouldn't be a problem, right? Star Wars: Gays no, Furries yes.
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Feb 8, 2011 16:29
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Splintered Penis posted:All of the EU is like that, really. In space, everyone knows each other. I wouldn't be surprised if it's one day revealed that Boba Fett and one of the Bith in the cantina band went to the same high school. I ask about the series specifically because I was pretty close to buying it the other day. Going by the film I'm glad I didn't. NeonTurtle posted:Star Wars: Gays no, Furries yes.  (Or... no.)I know that the rest of the Hutts apparantly look down on jabba for having that wierd human fetish of his, and there are a few examples I can vaguely remember of aliens thinking humans are ugly/scum/whatever. On the flip side you've got that whole bothan thing that was posted a while back where people (in-universe) were fine with that. This could be a strange tangent to go down. RedTeam fucked around with this message at 16:40 on Feb 8, 2011 |
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Feb 8, 2011 16:36
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I'm reading through the A.C. Crispin Han Solo books again (I like these, it's just Han and Chewie kicking rear end. Also, Bria's a bitch.) Funnily enough, the first time I read these was in middle school, and I knew nothing of girls/romance/whatever. Now I understand why Han's so pissed about stuff  Also, some of the Hutts are actually...kind of likeable. From the retard Kibbick, who think humans gestate from larvae/eggs to Jabba-gems like quote:"Look, Nephew!" Jiliac's voice was warm, indulgent. "My little one knows mama, yes, doesn't he, precious?"
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