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I like what I'm hearing so far... clearly worded and methodical dismantling of Bell's premise.
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Feb 8, 2011 22:06
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If I may don my tinfoil hat there....until a few months ago, bell was not throttling teksavvy traffic. Then suddenly around the 1st of the year they were. I just wonder if they turned the throttling off to get stats to show the CRTC. Then, once they had collected enough data, turned throttling on again.
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Feb 8, 2011 22:08
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Bonzo posted:If I may don my tinfoil hat there....until a few months ago, bell was not throttling teksavvy traffic. Then suddenly around the 1st of the year they were. I just wonder if they turned the throttling off to get stats to show the CRTC. Then, once they had collected enough data, turned throttling on again. It sounds ridiculous but when you look at all of the other poo poo they have pulled over the past three years it's quite reasonable. I particularly love their handling of grandfathered accounts. They unofficially told CSRs to "upgrade" grandfathered accounts when they called in (without permission) even if it was for something totally unrelated. There was a huge rash of people on the dslreports forums who had been switched to some other plan and when they called in to get it fixed were told that it was impossible. A friend of mine who worked at Bell told me he felt like a scumball every day he went to work because they had so many lovely customer service policies forced on them and basically had to screw the customer at every opportunity. edit: I should have specified grandfathered "unlimited" accounts. Oh and they jack the price up every year for them as well. The Gunslinger fucked around with this message at 22:21 on Feb 8, 2011 |
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Feb 8, 2011 22:15
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Bonzo posted:If I may don my tinfoil hat there....until a few months ago, bell was not throttling teksavvy traffic. Then suddenly around the 1st of the year they were. I just wonder if they turned the throttling off to get stats to show the CRTC. Then, once they had collected enough data, turned throttling on again. The stats that Bell showed to the CRTC are from mid-2009. They haven't submitted data since then. The changes to throttling that you've seen/not-seen are co-incidentally around the same time that Bell has been implementing their internal UBB infrastructure.
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Feb 8, 2011 22:20
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The Gunslinger posted:I particularly love their handling of grandfathered accounts. They unofficially told CSRs to "upgrade" grandfathered accounts when they called in (without permission) even if it was for something totally unrelated. He didn't know the significance of the call until he got an obscene bill because of all the new overage charges from my brother's bandwidth usage. teethgrinder fucked around with this message at 22:33 on Feb 8, 2011 |
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Feb 8, 2011 22:31
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First batch of witnesses are gone. Overall this went extremely well, pretty much all the important points were touched on, such as bits not having an intrinsic value and being essentially an unlimited resource, the costs of overage being excessive...are the second round opposers?
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Feb 8, 2011 22:31
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It sounds like the witnesses are tearing down Bell's arguments pretty good, and they are getting a lot of political support. Will a Bell/Rogers rep be in the next batch? They better rescind it, otherwise this classical music is going to cost me a fortune next month...
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Feb 8, 2011 22:32
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I really hope this changes something, all the points were brought up and stomped on and proved wrong. I don't see how they can keep charging what they charge now and get away with it anymore. We need some sort of news coverage on this tomorrow.
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Feb 8, 2011 22:33
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That IPTV diagram is a little false - there are a few coworkers of mine with IPTV boxes that are not from their carrier at all. Two of them have boxes from the Phillipines that allow them to have channels from their home country here (in Toronto) over the Net. That certainly uses the Internet. Also, pretty sure that Netflix qualifies as IPTV by it's regular definition.
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Feb 8, 2011 22:34
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I have no idea about Canadian IPTV specifically, but I know some US carriers do cause your internet to get slower if you watch TV (like going from 50 Mbps down to 25). Really it could be setup either way here, only the big ISPs know for sure.
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Feb 8, 2011 22:36
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who are the witnesses now?
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Feb 8, 2011 22:37
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TO UNDERAGE GYMNASTS
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The Bell reps aren't on until Thursday at 4:30, this group is more small ISPs and public-interest types. (schedule is here, click Next for Thursday's.)
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Feb 8, 2011 22:38
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Bell will be in the second panel on Thursday (approx 4:30pm - 5:30pm), also that's the last panel. Bell's IPTV offering runs over the same Dslam backhaul to the distribution network, just at a higher priority so won't be affected by any congestion issues. It's also not subject to UBB. Everyone else's IPTV offering must run "over the internet" and is subjected to congestion and UBB.
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Feb 8, 2011 22:43
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This current Oracom Internet guy is boring as gently caress.
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Feb 8, 2011 22:46
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The French guy speaking now just said that it's in no way fair if someone gets a virus and ends up with a giant bill because of it (didn't explain why, spam node or illegal secret FTP would be the obvious reasons).
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Feb 8, 2011 22:46
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univbee posted:I have no idea about Canadian IPTV specifically, but I know some US carriers do cause your internet to get slower if you watch TV (like going from 50 Mbps down to 25). Really it could be setup either way here, only the big ISPs know for sure. Telus Optik slows down a fair bit when you are watching TV, moreso with multiple HD boxes going at the same time.
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Feb 8, 2011 23:56
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Is there any way to switch away from bell and maintain the @sympatico email address? My parents would love to switch, but my mom is consulting and uses the @sympatico email address for work, which is currently preventing them from switching.
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Feb 9, 2011 00:29
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TrueChaos posted:Is there any way to switch away from bell and maintain the @sympatico email address? My parents would love to switch, but my mom is consulting and uses the @sympatico email address for work, which is currently preventing them from switching. You could switch the account to dial-up and pay the lowest monthly tier. That's the only way you can, assuming they still allow that.
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Feb 9, 2011 00:34
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I'm now posting from TekSavvy Cable. My plan is twice as fast as the DSL was, but upload is like 10-20 KB/s slower.
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Feb 9, 2011 00:44
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TrueChaos posted:Is there any way to switch away from bell and maintain the @sympatico email address? My parents would love to switch, but my mom is consulting and uses the @sympatico email address for work, which is currently preventing them from switching. Switching away is unfortunately impossible, keeping that address requires at least $12 a month IIRC. I think you can arrange 3 months of forwarding, though. This is definitely you want to arrange one way or another anyway, having an ISP-specific address is a terrible idea, especially for work.
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Feb 9, 2011 00:45
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teethgrinder posted:I'm now posting from TekSavvy Cable.
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Feb 9, 2011 00:58
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Please tell me there's a transcript of todays hearing. I'd be very interested to see what was debated.
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Feb 9, 2011 01:11
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unknown posted:CRTC's official statement: Goddamn that's intolerable. While it's been mentioned before, 'by their own initiative' is the most disingenuous statement they could muster. They haven't changed their tune one bit. quote:1. as a general rule, ordinary consumers served by Small ISPs should not have to fund the bandwidth used by the heaviest residential Internet consumers, and Wait, what? Teksavvy and other provides like it are the small ISP's, and their business runs fine even though their most basic plan comes with 200gigs a month. At no point have they ever complained about 'high bandwidth users'. In what world is anything about that statement based upon reality? It's the Large Distributors that are loving bitching here.  Also, really, Small ISP's can't offer anything in terms of a competitive alternative with UBB. If everyone is bound to the same bandwidth rates, the only that can change is speed, and UBB makes higher speeds very post prohibitive. It's mind blowing how callous and retarded the CRTC is, and continues to be. They can't even take a hint when it becomes a major political issue. I really hope those speakers today make a difference. I have a bad feeling Thursday's appearance of Bell et. al. will see the CRTC dipshits smile and nod their way through lies and bullshit.
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Feb 9, 2011 01:50
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Shumagorath posted:What and where are you uploading? My torrents uploaded slower initially, but someone must have fixed something higher up the chain because now I hit my full 1Mbps on torrents without a VPN.
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Feb 9, 2011 01:52
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Well Bell/Rogailures, looks like the West is safe for now! Shaw backs away from usage-based Internet billing. 
less than three fucked around with this message at 02:47 on Feb 9, 2011 |
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Feb 9, 2011 02:31
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I was genuinely and pleasantly surprised when I saw that. Rogers didn't call me back today and I deleted the voicemail with their number, so that was probably it... unless I grab their number off my own Rogers bill 
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Feb 9, 2011 03:59
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less than three posted:Well Bell/Rogailures, looks like the West is safe for now! Time to celebrate with a Playstation Network download spree. Victory tastes so sweet.
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Feb 9, 2011 04:19
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Well somebody was angry with me posing a link to that Vancouver Sun article to my Facebook.Shaw Shill posted:Here's the thing.
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Feb 9, 2011 04:29
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less than three posted:Well somebody was angry with me posing a link to that Vancouver Sun article to my Facebook. That "neighbor is slowing down my internet" comment doesn't apply to DSL  quote:profit to sustain themselves, give back to the community, continue to inovate, etc LOL. They guy who can't spell innovate believes that the telcos are going to use our money to improve their system rather than line their pockets. Glorious. And dammit, don't compare bandwidth with food. Did he even read the petition to the CRTC first? Acer Pilot fucked around with this message at 04:37 on Feb 9, 2011 |
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Feb 9, 2011 04:35
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less than three posted:Well Bell/Rogailures, looks like the West is safe for now! Wow, I am genuinely suprised. It wasn't until this happened that I started lumping Shaw in with the other three jerks. Hopefully they'll continue with their otherwise excellent service. Also the sun is literally the worst 'news' publication I have ever read.
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Feb 9, 2011 04:42
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ZShakespeare posted:Wow, I am genuinely suprised. It wasn't until this happened that I started lumping Shaw in with the other three jerks. Hopefully they'll continue with their otherwise excellent service. The Vancouver Sun isn't affiliated with the other Quebecor 'Sun' tabloids.
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Feb 9, 2011 04:46
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That doesn't stop it from being terribly written schlock.
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Feb 9, 2011 04:48
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BGrifter posted:Shaw Shill posted: Yea... but to make this example REAL you have to say that the restaurant gets it's food for FREE all they had to buy was the ovens. Their only limitation is the rate at which they cook the food. When the restaurant gets busy, they just make sure the "hogs" are limited to smaller portions or fewer trips. If that hog wants to sit in the restaurant for 4 hours and eat a bit slower, they can eat as much as they bloody well want and there is ZERO additional cost.
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Feb 9, 2011 05:25
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DropDeadRed posted:Yea... but to make this example REAL you have to say that the restaurant gets it's food for FREE all they had to buy was the ovens. Their only limitation is the rate at which they cook the food. When the restaurant gets busy, they just make sure the "hogs" are limited to smaller portions or fewer trips. If that hog wants to sit in the restaurant for 4 hours and eat a bit slower, they can eat as much as they bloody well want and there is ZERO additional cost. Even then it's a ridiculous analogy. Everyone wants to use an analogy or simile to compare Internet traffic to. The only one that even begins to make sense is the road traffic one. The tell tale sign someone has no idea how the Internet works when making an argument for UBB is any analogy at all, or comparing it to hydro. It's a great way to make them look like an idiot with facts even my non tech savvy parents know.
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Feb 9, 2011 06:49
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Godinster posted:Even then it's a ridiculous analogy. Everyone wants to use an analogy or simile to compare Internet traffic to. The only one that even begins to make sense is the road traffic one. I think its best to compare it to other technologies that work in similar ways. Like why our phone system never collapsed under the strain of "local calling hogs" and why we dont "run out of" cable television when everyone is watching the Superbowl.
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Feb 9, 2011 07:13
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8ender posted:I think its best to compare it to other technologies that work in similar ways. Like why our phone system never collapsed under the strain of "local calling hogs" and why we dont "run out of" cable television when everyone is watching the Superbowl. Phone systems do get in trouble in crisis situations. Cable TV is a whole different game too. The road/traffic analogy thing I could see working well. Having a really solid but SIMPLE analogy allows communication with simple people. It also ties in with the "information superhighway" that Al Gore invented... Bell's current caps on high speed connections are analogous to capping traffic on the 401 highway to 20k cars/month. One morning rush hour and they'd have to close it for the rest of the month! Does anyone have a link to a concise well worded "elevator speech" explanation?
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Feb 9, 2011 07:41
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less than three posted:Well Bell/Rogailures, looks like the West is safe for now! Excellent, I knew Shaw wasn't evil. I feel sorry for the people who switched to Telus over this, they might as well have been signing the dotted line with the devil himself.
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Feb 9, 2011 08:50
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So yeah apparently Bell has been systematically overstating consumption.quote:Bell Canada has admitted to problems tracking Internet use for some customers. But now that we know that apparently the accuracy of their tracker is a crapshoot—which fits my experience with Rogers to a tee—one wonders just how vicious the questions are going to be on Thursday.
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Feb 9, 2011 08:51
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I really hope someone hammers on this in the media. I normally hate being disingenuous, but put them on the defensive for a change. Come out with "Bell wants us all to pay overage fees, when they themselves admitted they've been overstating their customers' bandwidth usage". But really when I think about it, maintain the moral high ground and don't 
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Feb 9, 2011 08:57
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Modian posted:Excellent, I knew Shaw wasn't evil. I feel sorry for the people who switched to Telus over this, they might as well have been signing the dotted line with the devil himself. I wouldn't make any predictions yet. The fact that they say they're simply backing away for a few months to mull the situation over sounds like they're simply going to best figure out how to placate the mainstream with as paltry an offering as possible. "Hey, it's Shaws new Super-Huge Internet Time package! Now with unlimited bandwidth*!" *500kbs down, 10kbs up
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Feb 9, 2011 10:02
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