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Trash Can Man posted:Columbia worth it at sticker? Probably not. But you'll go.
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Feb 10, 2011 15:16
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I have 6 firm interviews from OCI but got completely shut out from government/PI...wtf?!
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Feb 10, 2011 15:47
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blar posted:This guy graduated from a TTTT in the 90's, defaulted on his loans, and posted scans of his loan statements. Or, as is more likely, his wife left him because he's stupid and a deadbeat. In his words: quote:Divorcing was kind of like me cutting the rope, lest I drag her down the side of the cliff along with me. At least she is free now.
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Feb 10, 2011 16:10
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Trash Can Man posted:Columbia worth it at sticker? If you're going to law school it's probably a much better bet than lower-ranked schools with a scholarship. Depends on the alternatives but - as long as you want/will tolerate a firm job - probably as you've got a very good shot at getting one.
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Feb 10, 2011 16:21
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10-8 posted:There's nothing whatsoever in that paperwork about the spouse being legally liable for payment; the government just wants to know how much your spouse makes so they can accurately determine a payment amount that is based on how much your family makes. This poo poo makes no god drat sense to me. Hypothetically, if you went were working for the government your loans would get discharged after 10 years without you having paid off the balance, but if you marry someone rich suddenly you are on the hook for way more money? As an extreme example, this could work out to $1000 a month or $120,000 over 10 years. Looked at from another angle that is the government giving you 120k to not get married (or get a sham divorce if you are already married). Surely I am missing something here?
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Feb 10, 2011 17:01
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nm posted:I have horrible non-confirmed news (source: former Managing Partner of larger CA lawfirm) That's not really a big deal, Kaplan University already has one http://www.concordlawschool.edu/index.asp
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Feb 10, 2011 17:09
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_areaman posted:That's not really a big deal, Kaplan University already has one http://www.concordlawschool.edu/index.asp "Traditional brick-and-mortar legal education has often forced prospective law students to make tough choices—move to a new state or city, or leave a job—in order to get their law degree." I want to take out a quarter million dollars to go to a crappy law school, in light of the current situation with law school graduation rates and the legal economy, and then spend the rest of my life in a single very serious career. Woah, wait, I have to move? Chakron fucked around with this message at 17:23 on Feb 10, 2011 |
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Feb 10, 2011 17:21
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Jaytan posted:This poo poo makes no god drat sense to me. Hypothetically, if you went were working for the government your loans would get discharged after 10 years without you having paid off the balance, but if you marry someone rich suddenly you are on the hook for way more money? I thought you didn't have to count spousal income for IBR purposes so long as you file separately, although I'm probably wrong. Maybe 10-8 or another tax person can explain. Also, nobody would be stupid enough to marry a lawgoon, especially not anyone with money, so who cares?
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Feb 10, 2011 17:40
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Got to love how they market nationally, but graduates are only able to take the bar in one state. I wonder how many people don't read the fine print until it's too late.
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Feb 10, 2011 17:43
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Konstantin posted:Got to love how they market nationally, but graduates are only able to take the bar in one state. I wonder how many people don't read the fine print until it's too late. If only there was some professional type guy whose primary job duties include reading and understanding the really fine print.
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Feb 10, 2011 17:49
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poofactory posted:If only there was some professional type guy whose primary job duties include reading and understanding the really fine print. I wanted to make a joke about how law school doesn't actually teach this, but got bogged down when I caught myself starting to expand the joke to account for the 500 edge cases and qualifying it with a few 'almosts' here and there.
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Feb 10, 2011 18:11
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Jaytan posted:This poo poo makes no god drat sense to me. Hypothetically, if you went were working for the government your loans would get discharged after 10 years without you having paid off the balance, but if you marry someone rich suddenly you are on the hook for way more money? You can marry but you must check the "Married Filing Separately" box when you file your taxes. So essentially you're sacrificing your marriage tax breaks for IBR. Oh, if you don't qualify for the 10 year forgiveness then your forgiven amount is taxed as any income greater than the fair market value of your assets. If you're doing 25 year IBR then you're punished for owning cars, houses, investments, or savings.
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Feb 10, 2011 18:16
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10-8 posted:I'm starting to lose sympathy for these people. Every time we see these stories of people drowning in debt, there's always some little nugget of information to show that these are not exactly very bright people. In this dude's case, he claims that his marriage ended because his wife was afraid of being on the hook for his gargantuan student loans, and to evidence this he posts copies of the ICR documentation that asks you to report your spouse's income. I don't feel sorry for them either. However, he is an excellent example of how law schools have been accepting everyone with a pulse for the last 10-20 years. I'm sure somewhere on his blog he claims to have failed the bar. Can you imagine if people of his caliber were accepted to med school?
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Feb 10, 2011 18:26
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Jaytan posted:This poo poo makes no god drat sense to me. Hypothetically, if you went were working for the government your loans would get discharged after 10 years without you having paid off the balance, but if you marry someone rich suddenly you are on the hook for way more money? I thought the point of discharging loans after 10 years for gov/public interest jobs was that they wanted to encourage and give an incentive to people who otherwise wouldn't be able to afford to become government or public interest attorneys (because of lower salaries and high student loans) and allow them to choose those opportunities over more lucrative opportunities like firm jobs. If a person/couple has a high salary and can actually afford to pay off their tuition in full or more of their tuition, why wouldn't they make them do that? Tuition rates and those interest rates are pretty ridiculous but I don't see what's unfair about taking your spouse's income into account if you're using IBR and you want to accord yourself of the benefits of marriage. HooKars fucked around with this message at 19:26 on Feb 10, 2011 |
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Feb 10, 2011 18:28
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Konstantin posted:Got to love how they market nationally, but graduates are only able to take the bar in one state. I wonder how many people don't read the fine print until it's too late. Traditional brick-and-mortar legal education has often forced prospective law students to make tough choices—move to a new state or city, or leave a job—in order to get their law degree." But you'll have to move to California to get your bar card, and you're extremely unlikely to pass one of the hardest bars in the nation! I like that they brag that they are regionally accredited in North Central but you can only be a lawyer in CA.
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Feb 10, 2011 18:35
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10-8 posted:I'm starting to lose sympathy for these people. Every time we see these stories of people drowning in debt, there's always some little nugget of information to show that these are not exactly very bright people. In this dude's case, he claims that his marriage ended because his wife was afraid of being on the hook for his gargantuan student loans, and to evidence this he posts copies of the ICR documentation that asks you to report your spouse's income. There's nothing whatsoever in that paperwork about the spouse being legally liable for payment; the government just wants to know how much your spouse makes so they can accurately determine a payment amount that is based on how much your family makes. He's a lawyer and he couldn't figure this out. And instead of investigating it, he got divorced instead. He does say that his wife was being semi-irrational the whole time, but her viewpoint is understandable given that just over a decade ago loans were dischargeable until they suddenly weren't. I could even see that kind of bill passing. "Default rates are rising because deadbeats are hiding assets with their spouses!" is an annoyingly plausible one sentence explanation for it. e: also, very bright people don't go to law school e again: he apparently went to Touro (the Cooley of the Eastern Seaboard)/just because everyone going there is an idiot is not a reason to saddle them all with a requirement to leave the country in order to ever own a < 20 year old car. Adar fucked around with this message at 18:40 on Feb 10, 2011 |
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Feb 10, 2011 18:36
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JudicialRestraints posted:Campus newspaper gettin in on the law school scam reporting industry! I was wondering when my tier 2 shithole's administrative gently caress-up was going to make it to this thread. To be honest, I don't think it's going to hurt students as much as our already abysmal employment prospects, but seriously gently caress our former dean.
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Feb 10, 2011 18:39
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nm posted:I have horrible non-confirmed news (source: former Managing Partner of larger CA lawfirm) This can't possibly get accreditation can it? Wait what am I saying, of course it will.
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Feb 10, 2011 19:25
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blar posted:Oh, if you don't qualify for the 10 year forgiveness then your forgiven amount is taxed as any income greater than the fair market value of your assets. If you're doing 25 year IBR then you're punished for owning cars, houses, investments, or savings. Can you explain this?
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Feb 10, 2011 19:29
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Roger_Mudd posted:Can you explain this? If I owe you $100k, and you forgive that debt, I have just gotten $100k in income. This is to avoid some fairly obvious tax evasion schemes. This does not apply, however, to any debt I couldn't pay: if I'm broke, I had $0 in income. If I have $50k in assets, I could have paid $50k, so I have $50k in income, but the $50k I couldn't have paid isn't income.
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Feb 10, 2011 19:32
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evilweasel posted:If I owe you $100k, and you forgive that debt, I have just gotten $100k in income. This is to avoid some fairly obvious tax evasion schemes. This does not apply, however, to any debt I couldn't pay: if I'm broke, I had $0 in income. If I have $50k in assets, I could have paid $50k, so I have $50k in income, but the $50k I couldn't have paid isn't income. Still a good deal, I'd rather pay tax on 50k than pay the whole 100k I owed. 
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Feb 10, 2011 19:39
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sigmachiev posted:This can't possibly get accreditation can it? Well it all depends on if Phoenix will have bookshelves, legal volumes, a couple professors, and a fax machine. Otherwise they may be in trouble.
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Feb 10, 2011 19:52
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blar posted:Well it all depends on if Phoenix will have bookshelves, legal volumes, a couple professors, and a fax machine. Otherwise they may be in trouble. And toilets or they won't even get a mention in the Cooley rankings.
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Feb 10, 2011 20:13
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poofactory posted:And toilets or they won't even get a mention in the Cooley rankings. If their library is solely on the internet, their library is of infinite size with infinite seats! Since these two factors weigh heavily in the Cooley rankings, the University of Phoenix is all but guaranteed a #1 ranking! How can you not attend?
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Feb 10, 2011 21:04
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evilweasel posted:If you're going to law school it's probably a much better bet than lower-ranked schools with a scholarship. Depends on the alternatives but - as long as you want/will tolerate a firm job - probably as you've got a very good shot at getting one. Two no's and a probably... Is it really HYS or bust? Worth a year to retake the LSAT? I've been considering that. Feces Starship posted:Probably not. But you'll go. A bit presumptive?
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Feb 10, 2011 21:47
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Trash Can Man posted:Two no's and a probably... Is it really HYS or bust? I mean I got a job and most of my friends here who wanted a firm job got one. But you have to want the firm job, because getting a good government job is much more of a crapshoot. The question, standing alone, isn't answerable: what do you want to do when leaving, what are the other options you're considering, what are your other choices? What is it you want to do out of law school? Columbia isn't a guarantee of a job. It is, however, a very good chance at a firm job (PI/gov jobs are much harder and I know less about them). It's just worse than it was 3 years ago.
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Feb 10, 2011 22:04
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evilweasel posted:Columbia isn't a guarantee of a job. It is, however, a very good chance at a firm job Judging by my experiences and the experiences of the people I know here, I have some real serious doubts about this, although I don't really know any 1Ls and very few 2Ls so maybe the situation really has "improved" for new students; I guess a quarter to a third of Columbia's class of 2011 just sort of has to live out the rest of their lives as unemployed or underemployed pariahs. It doesn't really matter though, Trash Can Man--if you want to work for a law firm and you decide to attend Columbia Law School, either way, you'll be getting the outcome you deserve. So go nuts! prussian advisor fucked around with this message at 22:48 on Feb 10, 2011 |
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Feb 10, 2011 22:42
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evilweasel posted:I mean I got a job and most of my friends here who wanted a firm job got one. But you have to want the firm job, because getting a good government job is much more of a crapshoot. The question, standing alone, isn't answerable: what do you want to do when leaving, what are the other options you're considering, what are your other choices? What is it you want to do out of law school? I don't know what I want to do, but I think I could handle working at a firm and don't care particularly about social justice. I was thinking about taking a year off to do something I enjoy that does not pay well. That would leave me additional time to study for and retake the LSAT. I'm in at most of the t14 below Columbia, but from as much as I know now I want to work at a big firm and die alone. prussianadvisor posted:
That is terrifying -- 200k is not worth a 66% shot at a job. prussianadvisor posted:It doesn't really matter though, Trash Can Man--if you want to work for a law firm and you decide to attend Columbia Law School, either way, you'll be getting the outcome you deserve. So go nuts! What the hell is this "you'll get yours" comeuppance bullshit? I know you're really getting off from the schadenfreude but I am trying to avoid a terrible life decision here. Is it really HYS or bust?
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Feb 11, 2011 00:17
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Well, from the sound of things around here the Class of 2012 has done much better summer-wise than the year before it. Almost everybody I know has a job. Whether that translates to offers in the same rate as the year before is as of now unclear. It's not all doom and gloom around here, though. Edit: HooKars posted:Have any of the T14 schools offered you money? Good question. Has Columbia actually DENIED you money? If not, and you have an offer from elsewhere, leverage that poo poo. It works. shirts and skins fucked around with this message at 00:44 on Feb 11, 2011 |
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Feb 11, 2011 00:35
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I got a really great settlement for my client (a defendant) in Federal court today and I know it's a huge victory but it doesn't feel like one. 
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Feb 11, 2011 00:41
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Trash Can Man posted:I'm in at most of the t14 below Columbia, but from as much as I know now I want to work at a big firm and die alone. Have any of the T14 schools offered you money? I think the economy is improving. My cousin who went to Golden Gate (T4) just landed a real lawyer job though she had to switch her practice area from environmental to trust and estates. Oddly, my cousin who went to Columbia is still unemployed. I think HYS or bust is pretty extreme.
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Feb 11, 2011 00:42
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Trash Can Man posted:I don't know what I want to do. Then don't go to law school. Only go to law school if you have a specific, articulable reason for going to law school.
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Feb 11, 2011 00:46
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Trash Can Man posted:What the hell is this "you'll get yours" comeuppance bullshit? I know you're really getting off from the schadenfreude A bit presumptive?
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Feb 11, 2011 00:47
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Trash Can Man posted:I'm in at most of the t14 below Columbia, but from as much as I know now I want to work at a big firm and die alone. Question is, how much money did you get and how good is that school? If you got a good package from NYU, for example, take that. Georgetown, that's a little more iffy. Trash Can Man posted:That is terrifying -- 200k is not worth a 66% shot at a job. You are not guaranteed a job at Columbia, no. However, the odds are good, and were still good (though not good by Columbia's standards) in the worst of the recession. However, the issue is, that's a lot of money to not have a job: it's not a simple risk/reward calculation. That said, even if you don't go for/get a firm job, you still have a reasonable shot at others, but as I didn't go that route I can't tell you much about it. evilweasel fucked around with this message at 00:51 on Feb 11, 2011 |
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Feb 11, 2011 00:47
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Hey evilweasel, serious question, I thought Columbia basically didn't admit anyone as a 1L without giving them at least a relatively modest scholarship (like at least 15-20% off tuition). Obviously I've never like comprehensively canvassed the student body--do you know anyone who was admitted with nothing at all? Outside of transfers I mean (but that's how it works for transfers at every law school.)
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Feb 11, 2011 00:51
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prussian advisor posted:Hey evilweasel, serious question, I thought Columbia basically didn't admit anyone as a 1L without giving them at least a relatively modest scholarship (like at least 15-20% off tuition). Obviously I've never like comprehensively canvassed the student body--do you know anyone who was admitted with nothing at all? Outside of transfers I mean (but that's how it works for transfers at every law school.) I really don't like asking people questions about their personal finances, so I don't have any clue. I know one person has loans, and one person does not, but that's the extent of my knowledge (and that's only because they mentioned it unprompted). This is also why I've got like no clue what my friend's grades are - hell, I don't even know what my girlfriend's are. Basically, I have family who are very keen on knowing exactly what everyone's net worth is so I really try to avoid anything that even hints at that, heh. evilweasel fucked around with this message at 00:56 on Feb 11, 2011 |
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Feb 11, 2011 00:53
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HooKars posted:Have any of the T14 schools offered you money? Just Michigan, they gave me half tuition. Not sure this is something CLS would care about. Columbia didn't DENY me money, but I was under the impression scholarships came with admittance letters.
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Feb 11, 2011 01:11
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Trash Can Man posted:That is terrifying -- 200k is not worth a 66% shot at a job. If you really, truly believe this, then no school except MAYBE Yale is worth sticker.
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Feb 11, 2011 01:13
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prussian advisor posted:Hey evilweasel, serious question, I thought Columbia basically didn't admit anyone as a 1L without giving them at least a relatively modest scholarship (like at least 15-20% off tuition). Obviously I've never like comprehensively canvassed the student body--do you know anyone who was admitted with nothing at all? Outside of transfers I mean (but that's how it works for transfers at every law school.) According to the guide on LSAC [http://officialguide.lsac.org/Release/SchoolsABAData/SchoolPage/SchoolPage_PDFs/ABA_LawSchoolData/ABA2163.pdf] 40.9% received grants of less than 1/2 tuition, 9.1% received half to full, 2.4% received full tuition, 2.1% received more than full.
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Feb 11, 2011 01:15
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Stop fucked around with this message at 05:48 on Jan 30, 2013 |
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Feb 11, 2011 01:32
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