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Vergeh posted:If people cannot place a phone call because the network is too busy, you add more towers and upgrade the network. You don't piss and moan that people are talking too much. No, you cap their phone usage and charge ridiculous amounts for overages to encourage less phone use so you don't have to invest in infrastructure. Geez, haven't you listened to the Bell guy at all?  I really hope this poo poo backfires on them and we end up with legislation that moves us towards what other countries already have. I mean, I've lived with a lovely enough connection (satellite) that Teksavvy's 5 mbit down, 200 gb limit was heaven while I was in Waterloo, but even a (relatively, within Canada) large bandwidth limit like that is going to gradually become less, and I know a lot of people are already dissatisfied with 5/1 connections. Especially when everyone else is getting more for less.
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Feb 11, 2011 14:55
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quote:No, you cap their phone usage and charge ridiculous amounts for overages to encourage less phone use so you don't have to invest in infrastructure. Geez, haven't you listened to the Bell guy at all? Awhile back I priced out overages on cable versus DSL after UBB and it was literally a $5 difference for 16/1 cable with $30 unlimited overages vs 5mbit DSL with 300GB. Even compared to their local competitors it's ludicrous, let alone other countries. Assuming UBB is somehow defeated, everyone is still stuck with the same 5mbit DSL they've had for the past ten years. Where are all of those infrastructure investments?
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Feb 11, 2011 15:14
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The Gunslinger posted:Assuming UBB is somehow defeated, everyone is still stuck with the same 5mbit DSL they've had for the past ten years. Where are all of those infrastructure investments? God I loving hope not. I love Teksavvy to death, and I know their hands are tied, but 5mbit is not cutting it here at home anymore now that I work here most of the time. I have Tomato QoS with like 20 different rules now just to prioritize things like VOIP and GoToMeetings over HTTP downloads. Our connection is at capacity for most of the business day. I feel as bad as Bell breaking the news to my wife that I'm throttling her iTunes downloads so it doesn't interfere with my VNC. You have congestion issues Bell? gently caress you, I have congestion issues. Give up those sweet higher speed tiers to Teksavvy so I can use even more.
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Feb 11, 2011 15:34
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The Gunslinger posted:Assuming UBB is somehow defeated, everyone is still stuck with the same 5mbit DSL they've had for the past ten years. Where are all of those infrastructure investments? Isn't that why there's been talk about separating wholesale and retail? I'm not really sure if I'm understanding it correctly, but I thought the idea was that if they were separate, the wholesale side (and its respective shareholders) would have to rely on increased wholesale sales to make profits, which would mean providing better infrastructure for the small ISPs buying from them to provide to their own customers.
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Feb 11, 2011 15:44
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Yeah same story here except that I went to Cogeco. I won't lie, it sucks paying $30 for overages but at least there's no ceiling on them (for now) and we needed the speed, we were pretty much running our 5mbit full bore after work straight til 9pm. I had to start letting Steam games and PSN stuff download over night.
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Feb 11, 2011 15:44
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Armor-Piercing posted:Isn't that why there's been talk about separating wholesale and retail? I'm not really sure if I'm understanding it correctly, but I thought the idea was that if they were separate, the wholesale side (and its respective shareholders) would have to rely on increased wholesale sales to make profits, which would mean providing better infrastructure for the small ISPs buying from them to provide to their own customers. Yeah its not a bad system as long as the wholesaler is regulated pretty closely. Otherwise you'd be in the same situation a few years from now except with "Wholesale Internets Canada" in place of Bell. If one for-profit company holds the keys to the car then they'll eventually see that ripping off their customers is a great way to increase profits without messy investment. I think Australia figured this out, which is why they're busy rolling out a national broadband network. Its good that the conversation is moving in this direction though. I don't think we'd ever see a wholesaler situation happen but the more the argument moves in that direction the more likely it is that Bell will get nervous enough to back down completely. I believe a similar situation happened around 1990-92 with long distance and it resulted in the lines being opened for competition. Of course thats when the CRTC had brains and balls.
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Feb 11, 2011 16:04
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Well, after much stumbling Bibic very clearly admitted that (a) there isn't any congestion on the last mile and (b) their primary goal in this whole thing is to force independent ISP's to not be able to differentiate their pricing. If the CRTC refuses to reverse their decision at this point, then there is no argument that they are misinformed but merely corrupt.
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Feb 11, 2011 16:12
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kuddles posted:Well, after much stumbling Bibic very clearly admitted that (a) there isn't any congestion on the last mile and (b) their primary goal in this whole thing is to force independent ISP's to not be able to differentiate their pricing. If the CRTC refuses to reverse their decision at this point, then there is no argument that they are misinformed but merely corrupt. That last hearing was pretty loving damning I'd say. More damning is the fact that the CRTC apparently went through this process already creating UBB and either didn't ask these very simple and very important questions, or did and just decided to side with Bell anyways.
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Feb 11, 2011 16:52
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Also, Michael Geist brought up a good point: That some independents like Teksavvy have been trying to get ADSL-CO approved by the CRTC and Bell has been fighting tooth and nail to avoid that from happening. So in other words, Bell complains that independents are "leeches" who are congesting their infrastruture, after tons of effort to ensure those independents are forced to use it in the first place.
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Feb 11, 2011 17:15
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Okay, this Current interview is pissing me off. Not because of Waverman, who is just doing his (apparent) job of repeating standard pro-Bell talking points, but because Steve Anderson isn't directly correcting or responding to him. Though, honestly, I would have interrupted the fucker. He's clearly trying to shotgun the interview by putting in so many bullshit lines that Anderson can't respond to them all, and Tremonti is letting him get away with it. It's a standard Republican tactic, and the best/only way to sort it is to not give them the opportunity. But Steve just let too many things slide, and didn't counter by pointing out that the Finnish example is more representative of the country as a whole. But, anyway, yeah, Bibic is probably hosed. I think Bibic was trying to say that the congestion was between the DSLAM and the central office in order to get around the IPTV thing (which is pretty damning) but it's going to get interpreted as "congestion for Internet access"...with has nothing to do with the resellers. Edit: Wait, no, he's saying it's between the central office and the hub, if I'm getting the ADSL-CO thing right. Honestly, that would seem to be a solution that everybody (except Bell) could go with. Let companies like TekSavvy get access to the Central Offices and the un-congested connections to the DSLAMs. If Bell whines about IPTV, screw em; the customers can be told that you can't have IPTV without Bell Internet and make up their own minds. Nomenklatura fucked around with this message at 20:52 on Feb 11, 2011 |
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Feb 11, 2011 17:20
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This just showed up in my inbox. Teksavvy posted:Dear TekSavvy Customer,
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Feb 11, 2011 21:27
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Bell and Rogers CEOs are doing a doubletake. "Y--y-you can RAISE a cap?  "
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Feb 11, 2011 21:29
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Martytoof posted:Bell and Rogers CEOs are doing a doubletake. This is pretty good. I occasionally would go over my 200gig cap (although never got charged for it) but with 300gig I won't go over unless my usage habits change significantly.
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Feb 11, 2011 21:34
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The beginning of the end? If enough small operators get together to expose what the pricing model is really like can the days of tiny caps now be numbered? I've actually been really impressed with TekSavvy have been handling themselves through this whole thing.
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Feb 11, 2011 22:01
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It makes me think back to the iStop meltdown. I don't remember the exact circumstances, but it was a matter of Ralph protesting an increased levi by simply not paying it. With six months, iStop owed something like 700K to Bell and had their cards yanked. It's what pushed us to Teksavvy in the first place. I've got to say, Teksavvy has shown a lot of class. George "GB" Burger has been stellar in debates and other public affairs shows, and they consistently put on a good show. On that note, Burger and Bibic were supposed to be on The Agenda last night, but I missed it. Anyone catch whether and where it might have been posted?
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Feb 11, 2011 22:17
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Whimsy posted:It makes me think back to the iStop meltdown. I don't remember the exact circumstances, but it was a matter of Ralph protesting an increased levi by simply not paying it. With six months, iStop owed something like 700K to Bell and had their cards yanked. It's what pushed us to Teksavvy in the first place. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pOPl4_YsTzg
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Feb 11, 2011 22:22
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jizzpowered posted:http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pOPl4_YsTzg This Bell guy is driving me crazy. "For only $15 you can buy 600 hours of content" "If you spend 30 minutes browsing a website it's less capacity than 30 minutes of video" Either time is a valid metric here or it isn't. You can't use it to justify your pricing and then tell us it's highly variable. Hint: It's not a valid metric.
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Feb 11, 2011 22:42
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Martytoof posted:This Bell guy is driving me crazy. But the heavy users!! They're killing the internet, we need more money to charge the users more money!
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Feb 11, 2011 22:46
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Martytoof posted:This Bell guy is driving me crazy. He's a well oiled spin machine. Its like every slimy PR conversation tactic of the last 10 years rolled into one person. His speech is in some sort of uncanny valley of almost normal human conversation and it makes me uncomfortable just listening to how he puts words together to wriggle out of difficult questions. He may actually be a serpent. Either way he's getting drilled pretty hard in the hearings and by the likes of George Burger which is nice to see.
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Feb 11, 2011 23:05
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Apparently he also only has two facial expressions:  Is there a part 3 to this interview? Part 2 just kind of cuts off and I can't find the last one.
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Feb 11, 2011 23:11
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Martytoof posted:Apparently he also only has two facial expressions: Part 2 Part 3 Whimsy fucked around with this message at 23:18 on Feb 11, 2011 |
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Feb 11, 2011 23:13
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Awesome, thank you! Youtube needs to revamp their layout so you can see more of the description when browsing through this stuff.
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Feb 11, 2011 23:16
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Everytime I see and hear Mirko talk I just want to  him non stop. Fairness, fairness, fairnes.... uuugh... more like MONEY MONEY OMG I WANT SWIMMING POOLS OF MONEY....
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Feb 11, 2011 23:46
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8ender posted:God I loving hope not. I love Teksavvy to death, and I know their hands are tied, but 5mbit is not cutting it here at home anymore now that I work here most of the time. I have Tomato QoS with like 20 different rules now just to prioritize things like VOIP and GoToMeetings over HTTP downloads. Our connection is at capacity for most of the business day. I feel as bad as Bell breaking the news to my wife that I'm throttling her iTunes downloads so it doesn't interfere with my VNC. Have you looked into their MLPPP service? From what I've read you can supposedly connect up to 8 5M dsl lines together but you need a separate modem for each and possibly dry loop costs and a router or custom pc box that can balance them. In case anyone missed the closing statements on The Agenda last night it's worth a watch http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=IlHpHxRhNs0
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Feb 11, 2011 23:57
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Stanley Pain posted:Everytime I see and hear Mirko talk I just want to In the first part of that interview he flat out says that TekSavvy users are using much more data than Bell users for less money (that I can believe due to established Bell caps). What's his answer to this? Charge those users more. gently caress being competitive. I really hope that's the way anyone who watched that show understood it, because it seemed pretty clear to me.
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Feb 12, 2011 00:13
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Ya he's pretty consistent with his "messaging." So much so that I can't stand to watch the interview, I also want to slap the poo poo out of the little toad. The thing is, when someone just tries to spin you need to treat him like a prosecutor. Make him either lie to you or admit that his premise is wrong. Did GB do any of that on the interview? Did the host?
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Feb 12, 2011 00:23
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I want to hug George Burger if I ever see him. Dude keeps his cool and always fires off the good questions/rebuttals.
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Feb 12, 2011 00:38
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Did anybody else get an email from Tony Clement?Tony Clement posted:Thank you for your email regarding Internet traffic management practices http://openmedia.ca/blog/net-neutrality-clement-confirms-he-still-out-step-rest-canada
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Feb 12, 2011 00:59
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Stanley Pain posted:Everytime I see and hear Mirko talk I just want to Plus, it's a divide-and-conquer strategy. If Bell can successfully pit users against each other, it'll be that much more difficult for people to actually say "wait a second, it's BELL that's getting all this money". If this money were going towards some sort of upgrade fund, or if users were getting rebates for the bandwidth they didn't use, or if BCE weren't making MASSIVE profits as of the last quarter, they might have a more credible case. But since none of those things are true, Bell has to change the focus away from themselves at all costs. That's mostly what Bibic's trying to do, along with muddying the waters as to costs and usage. VERY disappointed with Paikin in that interview. He routinely gave Bibic a chance to respond to Burger without providing the same opportunities in turn, he gave too much time to James Cowen, who was absolute dead weight, and he jumped all over Burger's comments about bandwidth costs while letting Bibic's absolute horseshit over the Quebec/Ontario thing slide. It really feels like Paikin was in Bell's camp there, which is rather surprising considering how sharp a guy he is. Edit: If he had given Burger enough chances to speak, Burger might have challenged that whole "people need to be punished for using the Internet" line that Cowen was pushing. Bibic is excusable; it's just his job, and he's doing it to the best of his ability. Cowen had no excuse for his dipshittery. Re-Edit: Closing statement was awesome, though. Nomenklatura fucked around with this message at 01:50 on Feb 12, 2011 |
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Feb 12, 2011 01:41
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The ITMP thing is unsurprising. Both the CRTC and Government are in favor of throttling. Fortunately the solution to throttling is the same as to UBB: to ensure that retail ISPs get to make their own decisions about how to use the bandwidth they buy. You could kill both birds with one stone. (Especially if the outcome of this is to open the door for ADSL-CO. Geist has done everybody a massive favour by bringing that up. By admitting that there's no serious congestion on the Last Mile, Bell has opened the door pretty wide for relocating independent ISPs' entry point.)
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Feb 12, 2011 01:49
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l33t HAXOR posted:In case anyone missed the closing statements on The Agenda last night it's worth a watch http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=IlHpHxRhNs0
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Feb 12, 2011 02:14
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Backov posted:The thing is, when someone just tries to spin you need to treat him like a prosecutor. Make him either lie to you or admit that his premise is wrong. Did GB do any of that on the interview? Did the host? George Burger is pretty good at this, and he has a much different style than Mirko. While Bibic has that slick super-executive vibe Burger comes across as a honest, grizzled veteran executive who may or may not smell faintly of whisky. I think Burger wins for everyman appeal and it was a brilliant move for Teksavvy to take him on, especially since Teksavvy's CEO, Rocky, comes across like a Truck Driver. <3 George Burger 8ender fucked around with this message at 02:30 on Feb 12, 2011 |
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Feb 12, 2011 02:28
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8ender posted:George Burger is pretty good at this, and he has a much different style than Mirko. While Bibic has that slick super-executive vibe Burger comes across as a honest, grizzled industry veteran who may or may not smell faintly of whisky. I think Burger wins for everyman appeal and it was a brilliant move for Teksavvy to take him on, especially since Teksavvy's CEO, Rocky, comes across like a Truck Driver. Can we call him... the Burger King?
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Feb 12, 2011 02:30
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drcru posted:Can we call him... the Burger King? Just to reinforce Burger's excellence, behold this angry super slam from him in the comments section of this horrible Financial Post article: http://opinion.financialpost.com/2011/02/01/terence-corcoran-billing-reversal-would-be-bad-policy/ quote:Hello Terry,
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Feb 12, 2011 02:52
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8ender posted:Just to reinforce Burger's excellence, behold this angry super slam from him in the comments section of this horrible Financial Post article: George Burger should be the king of the world. edit: Is that really him though? jizzpowered fucked around with this message at 03:07 on Feb 12, 2011 |
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Feb 12, 2011 03:04
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Nomenklatura posted:VERY disappointed with Paikin in that interview. He routinely gave Bibic a chance to respond to Burger without providing the same opportunities in turn, he gave too much time to James Cowen, who was absolute dead weight, and he jumped all over Burger's comments about bandwidth costs while letting Bibic's absolute horseshit over the Quebec/Ontario thing slide. It really feels like Paikin was in Bell's camp there, which is rather surprising considering how sharp a guy he is.
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Feb 12, 2011 03:21
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Perhaps. My experience with letting someone "hang themselves" is that it usually doesn't work, though. Talking points generally work if they aren't countered, and Bibic's talking points ARE superficially convincing, which is one of the reasons why he uses them. A lot of the reason Bibic isn't effective isn't because of his talking points, but because the man is just...unpleasant. I'm not sure why, I couldn't put it into words, but he doesn't come across well. Burger comes across VERY well, so much so that it's honestly surprising that their positions aren't reversed. You'd think that Bell could/would be able to hire someone that effective to be their spokesman. By the by, anybody else noticed how silent ROGERS has been on all this? Supposedly TekSavvy has had a better relationship with them, but it's still somewhat surprising that they've been much quieter than Telus, Shaw, and Bell. Might be because they know that cable can carry a ridiculous amount of data, and that "network upgrades" for their last mile is pretty much just rolling out a new DOCSIS version every so often. Even so. Edit: And "hang himself" doesn't explain why Cowen got so much screen time, or why Paikin was so aggressive towards Burger. Maybe it was the video link thing.
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Feb 12, 2011 03:31
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jizzpowered posted:George Burger should be the king of the world. There was disbelief on DSLReports but Rocky from Teksavvy confirmed it.
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Feb 12, 2011 03:42
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Nomenklatura posted:A lot of the reason Bibic isn't effective isn't because of his talking points, but because the man is just...unpleasant. I'm not sure why, I couldn't put it into words, but he doesn't come across well. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Uncanny_valley
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Feb 12, 2011 03:44
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Bibic has at least once gloated about screwing independent ISPs on his Facebook page. This was a few years ago, so if anyone is able to dig up the story it might be an opportune time for some character assassination.
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Feb 12, 2011 03:52
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