|
Well, some of those things are a bit troubling. I think someone (Autoblog?) pointed out that GM is basically running on the fumes left over from Bob Lutz's time right now - every good car they have right now came from him, there's nothing in the pipeline for at least a few years and the Impala is going to be in production in 2014. Let's just say that if you asked Marchionne where the engine was in any of his cars he'd beat the poo poo out of you. http://blogs.forbes.com/joannmuller/2011/02/10/qa-sergio-marchionne/ quote:Q&A: Sergio Marchionne Went out for dinner tonight and saw new Grand Cherokees everywhere. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=as6ix0OhZak Throatwarbler fucked around with this message at 07:37 on Feb 13, 2011 |
# ? Feb 13, 2011 07:29 |
|
|
# ? May 27, 2024 02:56 |
|
Oh hey some meta car commercials. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QWy6A6bLSW0 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mkUdQtINflw
|
# ? Feb 13, 2011 07:55 |
|
Throatwarbler posted:Well, some of those things are a bit troubling. I think someone (Autoblog?) pointed out that GM is basically running on the fumes left over from Bob Lutz's time right now - every good car they have right now came from him, there's nothing in the pipeline for at least a few years and the Impala is going to be in production in 2014. Especially now that Ackerson got rid of his Chief of Product Development for being lippy. As a replacement for this very important and technical position, previously held by Bob Lutz, longtime car guy, and then by Tom Stephens, serious engineer and enthusiast? Some lady from HR. Whaaaa Marchionne on the other hand knows his poo poo. The only question is what's going to come out in the next few years. The new Grand Cherokee is good and all, but that was already a done deal before FIAT came in, as were the rest of the refreshes. We'll have to see if the plan to combine platforms and technology will work. And the question is, in the worst-case scenario that Chrysler doesn't succeed, what is his tolerance for losing money to the Chrysler side of the business before pulling up stakes and gutting the company or bailing like Daimler did?
|
# ? Feb 13, 2011 09:38 |
|
|
# ? Feb 13, 2011 19:27 |
|
Cream_Filling posted:And the question is, in the worst-case scenario that Chrysler doesn't succeed, what is his tolerance for losing money to the Chrysler side of the business before pulling up stakes and gutting the company or bailing like Daimler did? Not sure how that's relevant -- Chrysler's success or failure will come from all the work and marketing before that. Why is it important what his breaking point is? From his frank admission of how hard it's been to make Alfa work, I'd say he's pretty realistic about needing to hit numbers to make Chrysler contribute to the company. The same question is probably more pressing for GM, since their pipeline is much more vague and now in unsure hands.
|
# ? Feb 13, 2011 20:06 |
|
Cream_Filling posted:
|
# ? Feb 13, 2011 20:24 |
|
Preoptopus posted:I just realized, imagine getting a small ding in that door..... The major creases on that door strengthen the metal and help make the panel more resistant to door dings.
|
# ? Feb 14, 2011 20:22 |
|
travisray2004 posted:Wow, thank you for introducing me to that site. Every observation is spot on. The G-Wagen point is possibly the most retarded point in the history of points.
|
# ? Feb 14, 2011 20:39 |
|
Embargoes are down for the new McLaren MP4-12C: Evo: http://www.evo.co.uk/carreviews/evocarreviews/263737/new_mclaren_mp412c_review.html (includes Chris Harris video) Car: http://www.carmagazine.co.uk/Drives/Search-Results/First-drives/McLaren-MP4-12C-supercar-CAR-review-2011/ http://www.carmagazine.co.uk/Drives/Search-Results/First-drives/McLaren-MP4-12C-watch-CARs-video-review-here/ Autocar: http://www.autocar.co.uk/CarReviews/FirstDrives/McLaren-MP4-12C-3.8-V8/255434/ Autocar video with Jenson Button: http://www.autocar.co.uk/car-video/mclaren-mp4-12c-driven-jenson-button-video/ I do not understand how people say it's boring to look at and doesn't look special in the way a 458 does, but then I don't like Ferrari and I do like McLaren. Looks like the car has moved the game on from the 458, makes me wonder what they're going to do for their next car, which will be a replacement for the mighty F1. The really interesting one will be the final car, which is going to be aimed at the 911 and be a car you can drive every day (and possibly afford, too).
|
# ? Feb 14, 2011 21:08 |
|
KYOON GRIFFEY JR posted:The G-Wagen point is possibly the most retarded point in the history of points. Why? It's a 6-figure automobile that I absolutely love the outside of, but whenever I actually look at it closer or compare it to say a Range Rover, it's loving atrocious what MB is trying to sell in terms of features. Or are you upset because the G-Wagon is supposed to be some ubar-utilitarian man vehicle and the idea of someone making fun of a terrible design decision is an affront to the cars manliness factor?
|
# ? Feb 14, 2011 21:27 |
|
The MP4-12C is a great looking car, but in a very cookie cutter paint by numbers sort of way. Generic, agreeable, super car styling - nobody can call it ugly. That is disappointing for a car that's not meant to sell 50k units.
|
# ? Feb 14, 2011 21:38 |
|
Morphix posted:Why? It's a 6-figure automobile that I absolutely love the outside of, but whenever I actually look at it closer or compare it to say a Range Rover, it's loving atrocious what MB is trying to sell in terms of features. Or are you upset because the G-Wagon is supposed to be some ubar-utilitarian man vehicle and the idea of someone making fun of a terrible design decision is an affront to the cars manliness factor?
|
# ? Feb 14, 2011 22:22 |
|
Dr JonboyG posted:Embargoes are down for the new McLaren MP4-12C: ??? Wasn't this revealed to the public like half a year ago?
|
# ? Feb 14, 2011 22:28 |
|
Yes, but it's only going on sale, a combination of (I believe) making sure production testing was very thorough and also taking time to have the dealer network in place (McLaren have been making a big thing about the dealer experience and how it won't be the same sort of "you better be in the club" way Ferrari work. I can sort of attest to this - the nice man from McLaren called me last week to tell me the car was about to go on sale. I had to tell him that I don't think I'm going to be buying one any time soon. Hopefully by the time the 911-rival goes on sale that will change.
|
# ? Feb 14, 2011 22:34 |
|
InitialDave posted:I don't think a G-Wagen needs stupid bodykits or bling wheels, true enough. I'd view the sweet spot as being the mechanicals and exterior of a challenge truck combined with the full-luxury interior accoutrements. Does the European model even have cupholders? If it does I'll bet they're only there because the US market demanded them anyway.
|
# ? Feb 14, 2011 22:34 |
|
quote:Look, that Grand Cherokee platform that we have deserves a Ferrari engine. Welp, I dunno about a Maserati SUV but I don't really want to argue with that logic.
|
# ? Feb 14, 2011 22:39 |
|
dissss posted:Does the European model even have cupholders? If it does I'll bet they're only there because the US market demanded them anyway. Why wouldn't you have cupholders in an luxury suv though? Especially at the price MB is charging for the ridiculous thing. I mean, I really really like the exterior of the loving thing, but than you goto http://www.mercedes-amg.com/#/g55-overview and just glance at what an AMG badge for this particular model gives you and you can only really shake your head in disappointment. It's like they're being the laziest of assholes in trying to 'luxury' it up. I don't know if anyone even cares about this car (amg or not) over at MB. edit- and the loving exhausts, good lord. Why does MB hate the G-Wagon so much? Morphix fucked around with this message at 22:43 on Feb 14, 2011 |
# ? Feb 14, 2011 22:41 |
|
Here's my theory on stuff like the Hummer and the G-wagon. They are originally designed as specialized fleet(military or otherwise) vehicles. There is virtually no civillian market for them, and the total fleet volume isn't enough to warrant a capital intensive production line. According to wikipedia the G-wagon line rolls out about 5,000 units per year. So basically they are all "hand made" trucks, because it would be too expensive to set up a modern automated production line. Whatever their actual unit production cost, which must be high but probably not $100k per, MB rekons it can at least sell a few a year to rappers and movie stars who for whatever reason want to sit in an uncomfortable body-on-frame box held up by 2 live axles, so they throw in some minimal creature comforts and price it accordingly. They know very few people are going to buy it and they don't care, because it's all just a sunk cost at this point. Do any serious off-roaders actually buy them? I can't imagine why, since I'm pretty sure $100k can buy you a jeep with as many differentials as you want. EDIT: I guess what I'm saying is that the cartoon has a pretty good point. With something like a Range Rover or Escalade, you are at least getting a hefty amount of equipment for your dollar, even if most of it is useless for the people who actually drive them, buta G-wagon is basically a $100k barely furnished tractor, you don't actually *get* anything other than the marketing, Mercedes isn't even trying to pretend its anything else. Throatwarbler fucked around with this message at 23:53 on Feb 14, 2011 |
# ? Feb 14, 2011 23:45 |
|
Throatwarbler posted:Here's my theory on stuff like the Hummer and the G-wagon. They are originally designed as specialized fleet(military or otherwise) vehicles. There is virtually no civillian market for them, and the total fleet volume isn't enough to warrant a capital intensive production line. According to wikipedia the G-wagon line rolls out about 5,000 units per year. So basically they are all "hand made" trucks, because it would be too expensive to set up a modern automated production line. Whatever their actual unit production cost, which must be high but probably not $100k per, MB rekons it can at least sell a few a year to rappers and movie stars who for whatever reason want to sit in an uncomfortable body-on-frame box held up by 2 live axles, so they throw in some minimal creature comforts and price it accordingly. They know very few people are going to buy it and they don't care, because it's all just a sunk cost at this point. They say the new Range Rover is actually a better off roader now than a Defender, on the same tyres.
|
# ? Feb 14, 2011 23:53 |
|
Throatwarbler posted:Oh hey some meta car commercials. I just saw this post and oh my. I have generally hated most of the newer Dodge commercials but this is fantastic. When the Charger revs towards the end of the first video, it sounds like an orgasm.
|
# ? Feb 15, 2011 00:04 |
|
Dr JonboyG posted:They say the new Range Rover is actually a better off roader now than a Defender, on the same tyres. I'd disagree now that the Defender has traction control and anti-stall, but there's no way a Defender could also combine tarmac performance, comfort and ease of use.
|
# ? Feb 15, 2011 00:04 |
|
Throatwarbler posted:Mercedes isn't even trying to pretend its anything else. Check out the AMG link I posted, the features they list and the whole 'hand-made' craftsmanship bullshit makes it all so disappointing. I think you're right on the points, but the G-wagon seems more like a combo of the H1 and the H2 if we're going to make analogies. Is the G-Wagon seriously that old in terms of suspension tech though? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LYVPNoTd2Qo Makes it look competent, but I can't understand moon-language. edit- I think I understand G-Wagons http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=663TaJ2AQSY&NR=1&feature=fvwp It's just assumed you're going to throw another 50-90k at it, check.
|
# ? Feb 15, 2011 00:08 |
|
InitialDave posted:The trouble is, that's one of those "it depends" statements. On certain terrain it's true, but given a different scenario, it's not. There are a lot of circumstances where the Range Rovers sheer size (particularly width) and weight count against it. Its somewhere around 250mm wider than a Defender remember.
|
# ? Feb 15, 2011 00:09 |
|
travisray2004 posted:I just saw this post and oh my. I have generally hated most of the newer Dodge commercials but this is fantastic. When the Charger revs towards the end of the first video, it sounds like an orgasm. No it doesn't. It sounds like a sound engineer played around with a recording of a v8.
|
# ? Feb 15, 2011 00:17 |
|
If they're going to be so smug about the "real cars for real drivers" attitude they've got going on there, let's see the manual shifter in the thing.
|
# ? Feb 15, 2011 00:40 |
|
oxbrain posted:No it doesn't. It sounds like a sound engineer played around with a recording of a v8. Yep, my point. InitialDave posted:If they're going to be so smug about the "real cars for real drivers" attitude they've got going on there, let's see the manual shifter in the thing. hahah so true.
|
# ? Feb 15, 2011 01:30 |
|
InitialDave posted:If they're going to be so smug about the "real cars for real drivers" attitude they've got going on there, let's see the manual shifter in the thing.
|
# ? Feb 15, 2011 02:10 |
|
InitialDave posted:If they're going to be so smug about the "real cars for real drivers" attitude they've got going on there, let's see the manual shifter in the thing. Hertz, National, Avis, and Budget told them not to bother.
|
# ? Feb 15, 2011 06:53 |
|
Anyone else see the new Camaro ZL1 due out in 2012? I am a big fan of the car and wow the new model is exactly what I wanted, with an upgraded interior etc. Check it out: http://www.autoblog.com/photos/2012-chevrolet-camaro-zl1-chicago-2011/ And the official Chevrolet images: http://www.chevrolet.com/camaro-zl1/#image8 Standard is a 550 HP surpercharged V8. Sick.
|
# ? Feb 15, 2011 13:43 |
|
Morphix posted:Why? It's a 6-figure automobile that I absolutely love the outside of, but whenever I actually look at it closer or compare it to say a Range Rover, it's loving atrocious what MB is trying to sell in terms of features. Or are you upset because the G-Wagon is supposed to be some ubar-utilitarian man vehicle and the idea of someone making fun of a terrible design decision is an affront to the cars manliness factor? If I'm buying a G-Wagen I fundamentally am not going to give a poo poo about the goddamn cupholder. As obnoxious as it is, the G is a statement vehicle - if you want an actual good luxury SUV for driving around and holding your drinks, you get a Range Rover, like you said. The G is a niche vehicle for a really specific image projection. It's not a sound value prop and it's not supposed to be one. I also think that the idea of putting cupholders in it at all is totally loving dumb but americans am i right
|
# ? Feb 15, 2011 15:00 |
|
oribiasi posted:Anyone else see the new Camaro ZL1 due out in 2012? I am a big fan of the car and wow the new model is exactly what I wanted, with an upgraded interior etc. Check it out: You'll never see the hedge you end up on the wrong side of.
|
# ? Feb 15, 2011 15:40 |
|
KYOON GRIFFEY JR posted:I also think that the idea of putting cupholders in it at all is totally loving dumb but americans am i right Don't you mean people in the US? American's encompass people from two different continents, surely all of them don't think that way.
|
# ? Feb 15, 2011 16:08 |
|
KYOON GRIFFEY JR posted:I also think that the idea of putting cupholders in it at all is totally loving dumb but americans am i right Why dumb Americans? It's a luxury SUV, I'm not sure what 'image' it's supposed to be projecting that the Range Rover doesn't, they're both 'gently caress off I'm driving here' status mobiles with various levels of utility and comfort. Either way I don't understand the anger, are you just dumb and get angry at whatever? It's not like we're talking about a GT3 RS or some other purpose built sports car. All I'm saying is, I think MB is loving retarded with that vehicle. It it was priced better, or better equipped, people might actually be interested in picking it up. Granted if god was real they'd be mandated to remove all those awful chrome accents before production and just leave them as an optional extra.
|
# ? Feb 15, 2011 16:35 |
|
Imperador do Brasil posted:You'll never see the hedge you end up on the wrong side of. Nah, that car is safe. I test-drove the 2SS model a few months ago and it's slick but holds the road. I didn't push it to the limit but its no Corvair.
|
# ? Feb 15, 2011 16:38 |
|
Morphix posted:All I'm saying is, I think MB is loving retarded with that vehicle. It it was priced better, or better equipped, people might actually be interested in picking it up. Granted if god was real they'd be mandated to remove all those awful chrome accents before production and just leave them as an optional extra. I agree with all of this which is why I think complaining about the cupholder is dumb as poo poo when it's like 9 millionth on the list of things that are wrong with the vehicle.
|
# ? Feb 15, 2011 17:47 |
|
If they're selling all the units they're making, that's probably reason enough to keep it as-is.
|
# ? Feb 15, 2011 17:55 |
|
kimbo305 posted:If they're selling all the units they're making, that's probably reason enough to keep it as-is. In any event the tooling was paid off probably decades ago so it's basically a small money-printing press.
|
# ? Feb 15, 2011 18:13 |
|
Coredump posted:Don't you mean people in the US? American's encompass people from two different continents, surely all of them don't think that way. No, he means Americans, because it's a perfectly acceptable term for US-specific people.
|
# ? Feb 15, 2011 18:41 |
|
Cream_Filling posted:And the question is, in the worst-case scenario that Chrysler doesn't succeed, what is his tolerance for losing money to the Chrysler side of the business before pulling up stakes and gutting the company or bailing like Daimler did? Because its an entirely different scenario. Daimler was a failing company that took over a healthy (but much smaller) Chrysler. Daimler raped and pillaged what they could from Chrysler and ran them into the ground, and then dumped them off as a write-off to further help Daimler seems like they were ahead. When the full story gets out years from now, I wouldn't be the least suprised if that was the plan from day 1. Fiat took over the carcass that Daimler left behind and is trying to help it recover as a means to grow its overall business. I honestly think they are operating in the best interests of both companies, unlike Daimler that shifted all of the losses of the Mercedes brand to Chrysler.
|
# ? Feb 15, 2011 18:59 |
|
|
# ? May 27, 2024 02:56 |
|
KYOON GRIFFEY JR posted:I agree with all of this which is why I think complaining about the cupholder is dumb as poo poo when it's like 9 millionth on the list of things that are wrong with the vehicle. Aaah, ya I can concede to that point. Just seems like US automakers level of laziness when compared to how much development seemingly goes into their other platforms. Least it's not spread through the whole product line I guess...
|
# ? Feb 15, 2011 18:59 |