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NinjaTech
Sep 30, 2003

do you have any PANTIES
I've actually taken the battery out and cleaned all the terminals. I haven't been able to induce the symptoms at all.

I also just rode it 5mi after deciding that the neighborhood was boring. It might have just been what you said about not wanting to sit around. It's kind of boggling my mind now. I might just ride around this weekend with my friend ready to pick me up with his truck if the bike dies.

As a note, this bike gets up to 70mph incredibly fast.

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sirbeefalot
Aug 24, 2004
Fast Learner.
Fun Shoe
Got the Pitbull rear stand today. Gonna pull the SV1 rear tire and maybe try and change it myself, I dunno if I'll have the motivation come the weekend.

I had the stand delivered to work for some reason, when the bike it is intended for is at home. With a flat. Which I need the stand to pull off. :doh: Guess I'm taking the van home tomorrow.

Gweenz
Jan 27, 2011
Got the master for my 360 rebuilt and painted as well as the controls. On a more personal note; to the Honda engineer who designed the placement for the snap ring holding the master cylinder piston: die, die, DIE! I had to destroy a pair of normal snap ring pliers to get them to fit in there, and even then, it wasn't easy.

Frozen Pizza Party
Dec 13, 2005

Gweenz posted:

Got the master for my 360 rebuilt and painted as well as the controls. On a more personal note; to the Honda engineer who designed the placement for the snap ring holding the master cylinder piston: die, die, DIE! I had to destroy a pair of normal snap ring pliers to get them to fit in there, and even then, it wasn't easy.

Yeah.. I had the same thoughts while doing the MC on my 79 CX500... it was turrible.

Ola
Jul 19, 2004

I have not yet found peace with any snap rings. I think mostly because I have cheaped out on tools. I remember how glad I felt I had bought some redundant parts when swapping fork seals. When I was trying to put the old (and essentially perfect) snap ring back on, it made that PING! noise you never want to hear, flew away never to be seen again. Some time in the future it will likely ruin the neighbor's lawn mower.

NinjaTech
Sep 30, 2003

do you have any PANTIES
Well I decided to take the ninja on a little longer ride. It died on me again. I went about as far as I did last time but at a slower pace. So I'm posting from the side of the road while waiting for it to cool off.

henne
May 9, 2009

by exmarx
Went to rejet and clean the carb today. Discovered that yes you do need JIS screw drivers and that the jetting kit the PO threw in is not only for the wrong bike, It has 4 of the same sized set of jets. Awesome.

Tang_
May 8, 2007
Rode the poo poo out of it, got so bogged that 2 average sized guys took 30 mins to get the bike out of the mud, broke the seat, snapped the RHS tank shroud and then dropped it off to have the suspension re-sprung, re-valved/shimmed and telescopic needles fitted.

Should be even more fun next time!

Gnaghi
Jan 25, 2008

Is this a good first bike?
Rode the Husky and flushed the brakes on the Ninja.

Ahhh, that's some satisfaction right there.


Click here for the full 800x600 image.

GanjamonII
Mar 24, 2001
Bled the front brakes on the sv. Made a huge difference - stopping power is improved and the lever is much firmer. I bought a 'lil bleeder' but I honestly don't trust it I think it was letting air back into the system so I did it with tightening/loosening the bleed nipple the while time.
I still want to do the back but the effort seems not to be worth it considering how little I use that brake and it seems to work fine.

WildWanderer
Nov 14, 2007
10 on tha Gnar-scale
Installed new pressure plate on my Monster, I expect some compatibility issues with shoelaces.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2TwKw-ghe3U

MrZig
Aug 13, 2005
I exist onl because of Parias'
LEGENDARY GENEROSITY.
Pulled the engine from GSXR A) and put it on the ground to be rebuilt, then pulled and put the engine from GSXR B) into frame A). Its been a long day.

Turns out I can lift an '89 oil cooled 750 I4 engine all by myself!

....I might need some advil.

Drache
Aug 26, 2000
Long time lurker, first time poster.
Slippery Tilde
It was in the 60's here so I was finally able to ride the drat thing. Man do I ever love the first ride of the season.

the walkin dude
Oct 27, 2004

powerfully erect.

Click here for the full 789x591 image.


Two Brothers slip-on install: check
Oil drailed & replaced with fresh oil: check
Battery installed: check
Finding a chain o-ring rusted, with horror: check

The SV rides on. I forgot how fast a bike was.

Gnaghi
Jan 25, 2008

Is this a good first bike?
drat it is 66 degrees here. I got the Ninja back together and rode it basically around the block repeatedly cause I never heard the fuel pump prime. Seems to be getting fuel fine, though.

Also this, with an evil laugh flying across town.

the walkin dude posted:

I forgot how fast a bike was.

FuzzyWuzzyBear
Sep 8, 2003

50 degree weather (again), 150 odd miles and 17 wheelies. I only got to have fun on one decent turn, the rest were wet from melting snow. It's nice being able to ride more than 20 miles before stopping to regain warmth.

Schlieren
Jan 7, 2005

LEZZZZZZZZZBIAN CRUSH
Before: 2-into-1 Screamin' Eagle exhaust. Not really my style. It's quicker off the line with 2-into-1, but turns into a gutless wonder in the middle band. I had it completely open going up hills at 70 mph, with no reserve power and no acceleration.



After: BUB Staggered Chrome Sidecutters, and I removed the tool box to clean it up a bit. I miss seeing the lines off the oil tank, but I like the somewhat unorthodox routing right underneath the air cleaner. In terms of sound it's got more powerful low glugging at idle - not quite so tinny - but retains the same throaty, valvetrain-y sounds the other pipes had. Kicks off car alarms at start-up, but only if the car is in the next spot. Performance-wise, I'd say it's not got quite the torque at a stop light that it had, but much more consistent horsepower from idle to wide-open.



I took the scoop off as well to see how it looked, but strangely enough the lines look cleaner with it on there.

Also, the two bolt holes you can see, where the tool box mount affixed to the body (one is hidden by the exhaust, they're just forward the passenger pegs) have now been covered up by a chrome washer and a chrome torx-drive button head socket cap screw; I'll have to photograph it at some point. They sell the flat chrome pieces in a kit to cover those up, but I like the bolts there better. Also I'm not taking that exhaust off again as I had to twiddle with it a few times and the studs to which the exhaust flanges are nutted to the heads are ridiculously inaccessible.

Next steps: extended forward controls so my knees don't come up around my ears, and finding a car tire for the rear that will fit with the swingarm. 15/32" clearance on the belt side... we'll see. Also I've got to get that helmet lock off the bike; who is going to put a helmet up against the heat shield and the head? Somebody who wants a screwed-up, melted helmet, that's who.

Note: it's always that clean because I wash it in the garage when I get home when it rains. Since it's Seattle, that means it gets washed one or two times a week :)

Deeters
Aug 21, 2007


Schlieren posted:

finding a car tire for the rear that will fit with the swingarm.

You're not serious about this, are you? A Deuce doesn't have great handling to begin with, and you'll lose most of it by putting a car tire on.

mutt2jeff
Oct 2, 2004
The one, the only....
My plan to ride my new CR stock for a while lasted a whole 4 days. It start with just a little carb tuning this morning, and finished off with dropping in a fully race modified Keihin carb off of Jimmy Lamastus's old 125 race bike and tuning that.

The old poo poo.


New carb is fully polished and opened up, shaved spring, custom made needle, all sorts of trick poo poo.


Dialing it in.


After the carb was dialed in it really woke the engine up. This carb was made for a fully modified engine, so I cant take full advantage of it yet, but baby steps.

FuzzyWuzzyBear
Sep 8, 2003

Deeters posted:

You're not serious about this, are you? A Deuce doesn't have great handling to begin with, and you'll lose most of it by putting a car tire on.

Seconding this, how the hell is a motorcycle supposed to work with a squared-off car tire? Do you literally travel everywhere in straight lines? :iiam:

Schlieren
Jan 7, 2005

LEZZZZZZZZZBIAN CRUSH

FuzzyWuzzyBear posted:

Seconding this, how the hell is a motorcycle supposed to work with a squared-off car tire? Do you literally travel everywhere in straight lines? :iiam:
Car tires have a rounded profile, just not as rounded as a motorcycle tire. The secret is in the radial construction. Strangely enough, people report better braking ability with CT over bias ply motorcycle tires.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xaIj1XrmvLM
As you can see, the tire flexes with the angle of lean. This guy probably has too much pressure in his tire, as it doesn't quite flex enough. But it takes some experimenting to get it right. The recommendation is to start at 40 PSI for 500 miles, then work your way down 2# at a time until you find the "sweet spot" for your bike, weight, riding position and riding style.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QwSSXHanpv0
That guy didnt have problems either, and certainly wasn't being bashful. What most riders do once they put a CT on their rear (after 500 miles of breaking-in or so) is go out in snow and rain. Also, riders routinely spark up their pegs just like with a motorcycle tire. The sidewalls never touch the road.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jQtlt-HFFoo
Here's someone starting out on dirt and grass.

Really, it's more "controversial" than controversial, and there are certainly a few brands and models of tire to avoid (no-flat tires especially do not work on motorcycles without tire pressure monitoring), but this sort of thing is gaining in popularity, especially with people putting thousands of miles on their bikes each year.

In any event, if there's a tire that can fit the relatively tight space in my swingarm, I'll let y'all know how it goes! 25,000 miles on one tire instead of 7000 certainly is worth giving it a shot.

Schlieren fucked around with this message at 08:23 on Feb 18, 2011

Kyon
Dec 19, 2006

brap
Bought and fitted some Pazzo levers today:

FuzzyWuzzyBear
Sep 8, 2003

Schlieren posted:

25,000 miles on one tire instead of 7000 certainly is worth giving it a shot.

I can see where you're coming from, and why somebody would do this. Obviously this is a solution for heavy bikes that don't do a lot of leaning, and in that purpose they may work fine. I still, personally, would not trust a tire designed to go 30,000+ miles on my bike. I break traction all the time in my car and it's not a big deal since I have four tires, but on a bike I'd be highsiding to the moon every day.

Also, I don't see how a rear car tire can improve braking at all. When I'm braking, all the weight gets transferred to the front and the rear unloads a lot. Even if I'm using some rear brake (almost never), it's only like 10% of the braking force being applied compared to the 90% of the front brake. So, how would a rear car tire make this better, somehow? Even if, theoretically, the rider only used rear brake (which is not the fastest way to brake), a less-grippy car tire seems like it would lock up before a grippy bike tire, regardless of contact patch.

In any case, I'm interested to see how this works out for you, and how it changes the feel of the bike both at speed and going slow.

Endless Mike
Aug 13, 2003



Went to go ride the DRZ, but I think the battery is toast since it won't charge above 15% according to my charger. :(

Z3n
Jul 21, 2007

I think the point is Z3n is a space cowboy on the edge of a frontier unknown to man, he's out there pushing the limits, trail braking into the abyss. Finding out where the edge of the razor is, turning to face the darkness and revving his 690 into it's vast gaze. You gotta live this to learn it bro.

FuzzyWuzzyBear posted:

I can see where you're coming from, and why somebody would do this. Obviously this is a solution for heavy bikes that don't do a lot of leaning, and in that purpose they may work fine. I still, personally, would not trust a tire designed to go 30,000+ miles on my bike. I break traction all the time in my car and it's not a big deal since I have four tires, but on a bike I'd be highsiding to the moon every day.

Also, I don't see how a rear car tire can improve braking at all. When I'm braking, all the weight gets transferred to the front and the rear unloads a lot. Even if I'm using some rear brake (almost never), it's only like 10% of the braking force being applied compared to the 90% of the front brake. So, how would a rear car tire make this better, somehow? Even if, theoretically, the rider only used rear brake (which is not the fastest way to brake), a less-grippy car tire seems like it would lock up before a grippy bike tire, regardless of contact patch.

In any case, I'm interested to see how this works out for you, and how it changes the feel of the bike both at speed and going slow.

Cruiser. If you're not leaning above 20-25 degrees, and your bike is incapable of transferring a lot of weight to the front under braking, then the almost completely flat rear contact patch will help the tire avoid lockup.

But having seen one of these setups in action, there is absolutely no way I would EVER do it. I watched a cruiser rider with this setup and even at relatively low levels of lean he was rolling the tire up on the sidewall very heavily and almost riding off the edge of the tire. Plus you could visibly see him fighting the rear tire around every corner, the bike didn't want to steer and hold a line, it wanted to go straight.

Porkchop Express
Dec 24, 2009

Ten million years of absolute power. That's what it takes to be really corrupt.
I did only some minor things to my bike today.

    Noticed the one of the seat bolts didn't have any washers, and had eaten through the fairing to the point where the bolt doesn't even hold it down very well. I threw a washer on there, and will probably take it in to work to repair the hole in the plastic.

    Took out the stock headlight and put one of those Phillips "Ultra Vision" bulbs. Its not as good as a HID setup, but it still gives off more light. Now I just have to adjust the headlights tonight or tomorrow.

SlightlyMadman
Jan 14, 2005

Z3n posted:

Cruiser. If you're not leaning above 20-25 degrees, and your bike is incapable of transferring a lot of weight to the front under braking, then the almost completely flat rear contact patch will help the tire avoid lockup.

But having seen one of these setups in action, there is absolutely no way I would EVER do it. I watched a cruiser rider with this setup and even at relatively low levels of lean he was rolling the tire up on the sidewall very heavily and almost riding off the edge of the tire. Plus you could visibly see him fighting the rear tire around every corner, the bike didn't want to steer and hold a line, it wanted to go straight.

Yeah, I mean I know you can usually improve a bike well beyond the manufacturer's specs through modding, but it strikes me that there's several drat good reasons why car tires are CAR tires and not motorcycle tires. Even if a car tire was better just for heavy cruisers, wouldn't they sell something like them as a "heavy cruiser tire?"

n8r
Jul 3, 2003

I helped Lowtax become a cyborg and all I got was this lousy avatar
*Owns $15,000 motorcycle*

*Buys tires not designed for the purpose to save a couple hundred bucks*

SlightlyMadman
Jan 14, 2005

n8r posted:

*Owns $15,000 motorcycle*

*Buys tires not designed for the purpose to save a couple hundred bucks*

You can't finance tires, I guess.

Schlieren
Jan 7, 2005

LEZZZZZZZZZBIAN CRUSH

SlightlyMadman posted:

Yeah, I mean I know you can usually improve a bike well beyond the manufacturer's specs through modding, but it strikes me that there's several drat good reasons why car tires are CAR tires and not motorcycle tires. Even if a car tire was better just for heavy cruisers, wouldn't they sell something like them as a "heavy cruiser tire?"
Why would they start selling something like that when they have years of ingrained habits keeping people shelling out cash? Motorcycle tires are a niche market and they have everybody by the short and curlies and are happy keeping everyone uninformed.

For my wheel and tire size, there are exactly two brands each with one make of tire. Two tires total from which to choose. There is no impetus for competition because the inertia of "motorcycle tires for motorcycles" and "car tires for cars" is the path of least resistance greasing the pathway from your wallet to tire manufacturers' executive bonuses.

All I can say is your (and my) theoretical knowledge and common wisdom are balanced out against hundreds of years of experience and tens of thousands of hours of gals and guys commuting daily using car tires on the rears of their cruisers and so far the few universals are "symmetrical, unidirectional tires work best", "don't use ride-flat tires because they definitely will blow out no matter the manufacturer" (due to the structure of their construction) and "not really intended for sport bikes because unlike cruisers they CAN and WILL get flatter car tires up on the sidewall."

There's lots of literature out there on why riders decided to start doing this, and a couple of forums as well. To a certain extent each person trying this out is a test pilot. So far the most troubling thing I've read is that, until a rider figures out the best PSI on their tire for their weight, the bike's weight and their riding style, at speed the bike might tend to get "squirrely". Some of that likely is simply the tire getting broken in and the placebo effect of not being used to the different riding surface, and some of it is the tire itself.

There are a couple of English-speaking forums out there for this sort of thing, and a few threads on the various V-Twin-related forums as well; http://mcdarksiders.forumotion.com/ is the first example I found.

n8r posted:

*Owns $15,000 motorcycle*

*Buys tires not designed for the purpose to save a couple hundred bucks*
I bought it used so it wasn't quite that expensive, but I'm not planning on increasing its cost by $1000 a year if I don't have to do so. That's just throwing money away.

Edit: other than that, I'd suggest you watch the videos I posted and make up your mind after that. Those bikes have as much or more road contact with their C/T than they would with a M/T; on one the guy keeps scraping his pegs. But it's definitely for cruisers only, so you probably don't have to worry about trying this out.

Schlieren fucked around with this message at 06:24 on Feb 19, 2011

Z3n
Jul 21, 2007

I think the point is Z3n is a space cowboy on the edge of a frontier unknown to man, he's out there pushing the limits, trail braking into the abyss. Finding out where the edge of the razor is, turning to face the darkness and revving his 690 into it's vast gaze. You gotta live this to learn it bro.
I've read all the forums, watched the videos, and seen it in real life, and I still don't think it's a good idea. The biggest issues in my mind are 2 fold. The farther you lean it over, the more you're reducing the contact patch, and secondly, the siping is not designed for motorcycle applications.

If you've never dragged pegs in your life, it's probably not going to hurt you too much, but I'd be concerned about those situations where you're leaned over going through a corner and you hit something slick, or if the tire starts spinning, the back end steps out, and it keeps rolling off the edge of the tire.

It's gonna make the bike way stable when you're riding upright though. I'd also be concerned about swerving on such a flat tire.

What size is the stock tire and rim?

kylej
Jul 6, 2004

Grimey Drawer

Schlieren posted:

I bought it used so it wasn't quite that expensive, but I'm not planning on increasing its cost by $1000 a year if I don't have to do so. That's just throwing money away.

$1000 a year in cruiser tires?

Schlieren
Jan 7, 2005

LEZZZZZZZZZBIAN CRUSH

Z3n posted:

I've read all the forums, watched the videos, and seen it in real life, and I still don't think it's a good idea.
O.K., so then don't bother? I certainly respect your making a well-informed decision. :)

quote:

If you've never dragged pegs in your life, it's probably not going to hurt you too much, but I'd be concerned about those situations where you're leaned over going through a corner and you hit something slick, or if the tire starts spinning, the back end steps out, and it keeps rolling off the edge of the tire.
How many cruiser riders have much experience with any of those situations? What is the likelihood of that situation? Is the risk of encountering that situation worth the savings on the tire?

Remember, compared to driving a car, crossing an intersection at any time of day under any circumstances is radically more lethal on a motorcycle than in an automobile. Do you really believe the sort of specific hypothetical scenario you've drawn is relevant to the average cruiser rider's experience? I've seen enough video of motorcycle tires hitting gravel patches and poo poo getting eaten to know that it's simply impossible to account for all variables. And do you really believe that anyone for whom such a circumstance might be a common occurence might not be able to make an informed decision for themselves, perhaps experience enough - one way or the other - to decide they've had enough, and go back to whichever method they feel is safer?

Honestly, I think you're dealing with small enough numbers that those who do not survive are worth a tip of the hat and a fare-thee-well. As with anything of this sort, the only real regrets are those directed towards any innocents who might otherwise have avoided such circumstances: innocent bystanders, people caught in the wrong place at the wrong time. For them alone, really, are our concerns justifiably voiced.

quote:

It's gonna make the bike way stable when you're riding upright though.
Radials become more round as speeds increase, so their handling characterstics much more resemble motorcycle tires at, say, highway speeds.

quote:

I'd also be concerned about swerving on such a flat tire.
From what I've read, the only new technique to learn is to keep a consistent oversteer at middle to low speeds in turns (the bike wants to roll out of these turns even more on a C/T). In any event, if I find a tire that fits my swingarm, I'll be sure to report on my findings! Luckily, if it turns out to be something completely insane or obviously unsafe, it's not expensive to undo it one time.

quote:

What size is the stock tire and rim?
180/60B17 (it's not stock though). The wheel is 4.5 inches wide. I've seen C/T with 5.0" or 5.5" minimum rims recommended; from my research so far, these two are the closest I'm going to find. It's a question of fitting the tire without it grinding against the belt guard; I thought I'd found a 185/75R17 Dunlop, but either it was a typo or it's out of production.

If I switched to a 16 inch wheel it'd be much easier, but this is a cost-cutting measure, so I'll explore modifications to the current wheel before I consider swapping it for a different one.

kylej posted:

$1000 a year in cruiser tires?
http://www.amazon.com/Dunlop%C2%AE-Screamin-Eagle%C2%AE-GT502-Blackwall/dp/B003WTS2Y2

This one's at 6500 miles and needs to be replaced. Factor in ~20,000 miles per year (sometimes more) and installation costs, and $1000 / year is a rough, perhaps slightly conservative estimate.

Schlieren fucked around with this message at 10:19 on Feb 19, 2011

ReelBigLizard
Feb 27, 2003

Fallen Rib

Schlieren posted:

O.K., so then don't bother? I certainly respect your making a well-informed decision.

You know what a discussion board is, right?

Schlieren posted:

Remember, compared to driving a car, crossing an intersection at any time of day under any circumstances is radically more lethal on a motorcycle than in an automobile.

"Making this dangerous activity more dangerous is ok because it's already dangerous, right?".

Schlieren posted:

http://www.amazon.com/Dunlop%C2%AE-Screamin-Eagle%C2%AE-GT502-Blackwall/dp/B003WTS2Y2

This one's at 6500 miles and needs to be replaced. Factor in ~20,000 miles per year (sometimes more) and installation costs, and $1000 / year is a rough, perhaps slightly conservative estimate.

There are tires with much better wear characteristics to fit your bike, you don't have to replace it with the same overpriced OEM that HD used, you know. You could look at a few different options like the Metzler 880 Marathon if you want more miles. Online reviews, for what they're worth often put the 880s down for 10k+. Oh and they're cheaper than that "Screamin' Eagle" bullshit.

Schlieren posted:

Do you really believe the sort of specific hypothetical scenario you've drawn is relevant to the average cruiser rider's experience?

Z3n wasn't giving the specific situation where this is a bad idea, he was giving a specific example of one of the thousands of possible cases where the quality of your rear tire is relevant. Tires have many responsibilities, but a primary one is safety. They need to flex in the right geometries for your bike, to maximise your contact patch while cornering.

Your argument, applied to helmets posted:

You know what's cheaper than motorcycle helmets? fuckin' cycle helmets man. They're lighter, they're better ventilated. What? oh yeah sure, in that specific case of my head hitting something if I come off it won't be as safe as a proper helmet but how relevant is that to your average cruiser rider?

The general attitude on this forum is that cheaping out on gear at the unnecessary expense of safety is a bad idea. Some here are more ATGATT than others, I'd place myself at the very moderate end of that spectrum, but even I think this is a bad idea.

You're going to do it anyway, I can tell. And you know what? that's fine. I bet the tire will be fine, because as you put it, the likelihood of you needing that extra contact patch is very small but don't expect to get much support here.

Schlieren posted:

Why would they start selling something like that when they have years of ingrained habits keeping people shelling out cash? Motorcycle tires are a niche market and they have everybody by the short and curlies and are happy keeping everyone uninformed.

Amen, good luck stickin' it to 'The Man', brother.


EDIT: I guess what I actually meant to say, after all that is; If you're going to do stupid poo poo to your motorcycle either acknowledge that it's stupid, and that you're stupid for doing it (not exactly a loving stretch on a motorcycle forum) or keep quiet.

ReelBigLizard fucked around with this message at 11:50 on Feb 19, 2011

Schlieren
Jan 7, 2005

LEZZZZZZZZZBIAN CRUSH

ReelBigLizard posted:

You know what a discussion board is, right?
Do you?

quote:

"Making this dangerous activity more dangerous is ok because it's already dangerous, right?".
After careful consideration, I don't believe it's making it more dangerous.

quote:

There are tires with much better wear characteristics to fit your bike, you don't have to replace it with the same overpriced OEM that HD used, you know. You could look at a few different options like the Metzler 880 Marathon if you want more miles. Online reviews, for what they're worth often put the 880s down for 10k+. Oh and they're cheaper than that "Screamin' Eagle" bullshit.
Metzeler 880 Marathon doesn't currently come in a 180/60R17. 200/55R17 would likely fit. But, I'm pretty sure that I'd rather take a tire at half the cost with twice the mileage.

quote:

Z3n wasn't giving the specific situation where this is a bad idea, he was giving a specific example of one of the thousands of possible cases where the quality of your rear tire is relevant. Tires have many responsibilities, but a primary one is safety. They need to flex in the right geometries for your bike, to maximise your contact patch while cornering.
Are you a tire engineer? I mean, you seem to be writing from such a place of authority. Have you done actual comparisons, or are you simply writing from your own theoretical experience?

quote:

The general attitude on this forum is that cheaping out on gear at the unnecessary expense of safety is a bad idea. Some here are more ATGATT than others, I'd place myself at the very moderate end of that spectrum, but even I think this is a bad idea.
I'd place myself at the very conservative end of that spectrum - part of the reason I chose a cruiser over something with a more generous powerband - and I think this is an idea well-worth trying! What do you think of that?

quote:

You're going to do it anyway, I can tell. And you know what? that's fine. I bet the tire will be fine, because as you put it, the likelihood of you needing that extra contact patch is very small but don't expect to get much support here.
"Extra contact patch"? From what I've seen, the C/T have more contact than a M/T. The first-hand experience of years-long riders who instantly feel more secure with a tire specifically not designed for their application certainly holds more weight than your attempts at persuasion.

The best part is that if something like this feels unsafe in the slightest, it's going to be very apparent very quickly, and even an ounce of self-preservation will mean I'm only out a few hundred dollars. It's worth the risk; if I find a tire that fits, I'll let you know!

quote:

EDIT: I guess what I actually meant to say, after all that is; If you're going to do stupid poo poo to your motorcycle either acknowledge that it's stupid, and that you're stupid for doing it (not exactly a loving stretch on a motorcycle forum) or keep quiet.
Actuarials cover C/T on a motorcycle the same as a motorcycle tire. I think I'll accept their judgement over yours. So far, it seems fitting a C/T on the swingarm of a H-D 17" wheel without it hitting the swingarm or the belt drive is pretty difficult. However, with any luck, I'll be able to let you know how it turns out! :)

FuzzyWuzzyBear
Sep 8, 2003


Why are you paying this much for a rear tire? Here, I just saved you a ton of money.

http://www.motorcycle-superstore.com/3/31/401/14232/ITEM/Pirelli-Night-Dragon-Rear-Tire.aspx

FuzzyWuzzyBear fucked around with this message at 15:19 on Feb 19, 2011

Crayvex
Dec 15, 2005

Morons! I have morons on my payroll!
This is a cruiser troll right? I mean it has the troll elements:

- I'm going with the most forward controls ever!
- I'm gonna go with the fattest tire I can. I'd put a truck tire on if I can find a way to fit her on.
- I ain't got no sport bike. Leaning ain't important to me.
- Your opinion don't matter. I'm a tire engineer.

:hurr:

blugu64
Jul 17, 2006

Do you realize that fluoridation is the most monstrously conceived and dangerous communist plot we have ever had to face?
Best of luck with the car tire, not something that I'd try personally, but hope it works out. The ME880 on my Ninja 250 lasted for 15-17k miles :)

Porkchop Express
Dec 24, 2009

Ten million years of absolute power. That's what it takes to be really corrupt.
Hey guys I put these car tires on my bike, what do you think?

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Z3n
Jul 21, 2007

I think the point is Z3n is a space cowboy on the edge of a frontier unknown to man, he's out there pushing the limits, trail braking into the abyss. Finding out where the edge of the razor is, turning to face the darkness and revving his 690 into it's vast gaze. You gotta live this to learn it bro.

Schlieren posted:

How many cruiser riders have much experience with any of those situations? What is the likelihood of that situation? Is the risk of encountering that situation worth the savings on the tire?

Every single one? Skill doesn't determine road conditions, nor does riding style, or anything else. If you turn your motorcycle, you have the possibility of hitting gravel or something slick while in the corner.

quote:

Remember, compared to driving a car, crossing an intersection at any time of day under any circumstances is radically more lethal on a motorcycle than in an automobile. Do you really believe the sort of specific hypothetical scenario you've drawn is relevant to the average cruiser rider's experience? I've seen enough video of motorcycle tires hitting gravel patches and poo poo getting eaten to know that it's simply impossible to account for all variables. And do you really believe that anyone for whom such a circumstance might be a common occurence might not be able to make an informed decision for themselves, perhaps experience enough - one way or the other - to decide they've had enough, and go back to whichever method they feel is safer?

This is a flaw argument for 2 reasons: First, while it's impossible to account for all variables, that doesn't mean you shouldn't stack the deck in your favor as much as possible.

Second: Riding by it's very nature contradicts much of what we hold as "common sense". Countersteering, leaning off to the inside (rather than staying upright and feeling stable), the front brake being the majority of the braking power, all of these things are contrary to our instincts. The truth is you cannot trust your instincts as a new rider because more often than not they are wrong. And there are many riders out there who have racked up a lot of miles without ever getting any sort of training, and have been reinforcing bad habits for years or even decades.

quote:

Honestly, I think you're dealing with small enough numbers that those who do not survive are worth a tip of the hat and a fare-thee-well. As with anything of this sort, the only real regrets are those directed towards any innocents who might otherwise have avoided such circumstances: innocent bystanders, people caught in the wrong place at the wrong time. For them alone, really, are our concerns justifiably voiced.

All it takes is one low speed tip over that wouldn't have happened on normal tires to justify, costwise, the cost of normal tires, regardless of the consequences of injuries to the rider or others.

quote:

Radials become more round as speeds increase, so their handling characterstics much more resemble motorcycle tires at, say, highway speeds.

Irrelevant, as the average speed of accidents is 27mph and the 1/1000 accident speed is 80mph.

quote:

From what I've read, the only new technique to learn is to keep a consistent oversteer at middle to low speeds in turns (the bike wants to roll out of these turns even more on a C/T). In any event, if I find a tire that fits my swingarm, I'll be sure to report on my findings! Luckily, if it turns out to be something completely insane or obviously unsafe, it's not expensive to undo it one time.

Constantly having to steer the bike into the corner the bike is not a good thing. You shouldn't be wrestling with the bike midcorner, you should be able to smoothly set one lean angle for a corner and have the bike respond. If you're constantly having to oversteer the bike and something happens that causes you to panic or lock up for a second, the bike will run wide, potentially putting you off the road or into oncoming traffic. That goes double if you have to brake or swerve midcorner.

quote:

180/60B17 (it's not stock though). The wheel is 4.5 inches wide. I've seen C/T with 5.0" or 5.5" minimum rims recommended; from my research so far, these two are the closest I'm going to find. It's a question of fitting the tire without it grinding against the belt guard; I thought I'd found a 185/75R17 Dunlop, but either it was a typo or it's out of production.

If I switched to a 16 inch wheel it'd be much easier, but this is a cost-cutting measure, so I'll explore modifications to the current wheel before I consider swapping it for a different one.

http://www.amazon.com/Dunlop%C2%AE-Screamin-Eagle%C2%AE-GT502-Blackwall/dp/B003WTS2Y2

This one's at 6500 miles and needs to be replaced. Factor in ~20,000 miles per year (sometimes more) and installation costs, and $1000 / year is a rough, perhaps slightly conservative estimate.

You have a rim size that is one of the most available on the planet, as SV650s, Supermotos, and loads of other small displacement standards run. Basically every tire maker out there makes a 170/60 or 170/70 -17 that you could put on the back of your bike. A 4.5 inch rim should be taking a 160 or 170, not a 180. The new PR2s are lasting 10k+ on high powered, heavy sport touring rigs, so your argument is really pretty much invalid across the board, and based out of the sort of ignorance that made people deny the existence of countersteering and the wives' tale that the front brake will toss you over the bars.

PS: You're getting poo poo mileage out of your tires because you're pinching a larger tire on to the rim, mushrooming it out and causing it to flatspot prematurely. If you mount the proper sized tires on your bike, and you will discover that they last a lot longer. You are having clearance issues with the belt drive because you are pinching too fat a tire on the rim.

Z3n fucked around with this message at 17:55 on Feb 19, 2011

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