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GOOD NEWS Nine access holes and a sock later, I found it. It wasn't plumbing related. The radon pipe was actually the cause. Guessing melting snow inside or just condensation from how cold it is caused water to flow back down slowly. One of the 4" PVC 90-degree bends has a poor seal, so when water dripped passed that part it exited and ran down the pipe exterior until it hit another 90-degree bend and emptied into my basement. Really glad it wasn't sewage  Now that I have found the cause, looking to see who to assign blame and make pay. It sounds like the builder is willing to make right since it was a construction defect, and there is enough calcium buildup to show this leak has been going for a long time. I will need a large hole cut into my kitchen wall and utility room ceiling to replace this segment, all the access holes patched, and the damaged basement drywall fixed. That plus the water logged insulation still needs to get removed before mold is an issue to be on the safe side. Already turned up the heat in the house and opened all the vents in the basement to increase airflow. The damp drywall in the basement is already turning white again and feeling solid. Nothing is bulging or messed up outside of some corners I will need to re-mud and a wall/ceiling seam that partially came undone from getting wet.
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Feb 10, 2011 23:38
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dietcokefiend posted:GOOD NEWS Thats good that the builder will cover it.
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Feb 11, 2011 00:28
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Rd Rash 1000cc posted:Thats good that the builder will cover it. Yea, well stuff is finally drying out, my sock is holding back the torrent, and things don't look as doom and gloom as they were last night. The bastard that started this all  Do you have socks in your house?  The exit point    
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Feb 11, 2011 00:47
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 Well there's your problem. I'm sorry. It was the first thing that came to mind when he sent me the pics.
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Feb 11, 2011 01:09
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Wait how is snow getting in the radon pipe. Do you have an abundance of snow on your roof. I really doubt a ton would fall into it. I mean if its still constantly dripping and your roof isnt covered with snow. There could be another problem here. Turd Herder fucked around with this message at 02:45 on Feb 11, 2011 |
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Feb 11, 2011 02:43
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Rd Rash 1000cc posted:Wait how is snow getting in the radon pipe. Do you have an abundance of snow on your roof. I really doubt a ton would fall into it. It averages about one small drip per 2-3 minutes. A bulk of snow just melted around the time all the started, and we also had an ice storm. Its not like cups of water are pouring out. Its a 4" pipe sticking straight up out of the roof, some stuff is going to get in. Add in warm moisture from a heated source (house) and you got a constant source of condensation inside.
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Feb 11, 2011 02:51
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dietcokefiend posted:It averages about one small drip per 2-3 minutes. A bulk of snow just melted around the time all the started, and we also had an ice storm. Its not like cups of water are pouring out. While not knowing the exact amount of snow fall you got in your region. Sources say 10 inches of snow equals an inch of water. Heavy wet snow may contains as much as 16 percent more meltwater by volume. So for this study will just say its average snow. So the cross sectional of that 4" pipe is 12.56. 12.56 x 1 inch = 12.56 cubic inches of water. 12.56 Cubic inches / 231 =0.054 gallons. .054 x 16 = .864 of a cup of water. In theory that radon pipe should be graded. But since mouth breathers install the pipe usually it may be run flat. So with that little of water running into a flat pipe With that little of water in your drywall, it wouldn't really be noticeable. So before you call out the builder I would be positive. Also what makes you sure thats a radon pipe?
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Feb 11, 2011 04:55
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Rd Rash 1000cc posted:Also what makes you sure thats a radon pipe? The permanent market letters drawn on it in the basement  . It was also marked in the blueprints as the Radon pipe. Outside of arguing about what might be inside that pipe, the main fact is a joint on said pipe is leaking. Its bone dry above the pipe around the entire circumference, with the only drip coming from inside the crevasse of the female fitting. Besides someone being an rear end in a top hat and hooking up like a mini water line to that pipe... how else could water get inside of it and build up outside of a natural occurrence. From looking at the amount of drywall damage caused by the water, it could have very well been under a cup. That entire stretch was sealed, and the path goes drip from 90-degree bend, straight onto a flat surface between the ceiling drywall and joist, to the V where the ceiling and wall meet, then the first wet corner is at another V where two vertical surfaces meet, then it follows the path of the metal edge of the drywall corner to the other two V's. It pretty much had a perfect dry riverbed to follow. Now with all the snow melting, humidity increasing, lots of heat picked up inside the house along the pipe path, It seems logical to think that air would follow a path of convection from the basement floor up to the top of the roof and exit. Its going to be bringing moist air from beneath the slab with it, and once it hits that last 8 feet of pipe inside the attic and above the roof, its going to have the humid air condense on the wall and drip back down. It probably takes a perfect set of conditions to get this to form during certain parts of the year. It was just my luck that I found it happen. My theater got the brunt of it from how I setup the walls and ceiling. Insulation is packed everywhere in the joist spaces and wall cavities to help deaden sound. That traps air and moisture so any water that goes in stays put. I also had garage mildew resistant 5/8" fireblocking drywall in two layers for that entire room, so the paper didn't just absorb it right away, it just followed the path of the joints till it hit those low spot corners and dripped. But regardless, builder is already coming out and will be here in the morning. If they don't play ball, I go with insurance. At this point all I know is its happening, I am pretty sure I found the water source, and it needs to get fixed by a professional. 
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Feb 11, 2011 06:33
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dietcokefiend posted:The permanent market letters drawn on it in the basement My point is it could be the radon but water can wick in weird ways. Capillary action can make water travel up hill. The reason I asked if it you were positive if it was radon or not. Was because As builts can be wrong, but if they labeled the pipe them self it should be right.
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Feb 11, 2011 07:32
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Rd Rash 1000cc posted:My point is it could be the radon but water can wick in weird ways. Capillary action can make water travel up hill. 100% positive it is the radon pipe. No pipes connect to it, it is just a single stack that goes to the roof. The sewer/waste line is 3-4 feet over.
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Feb 11, 2011 08:15
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Back to more plumbing work on the basement! I'm planning to rent the pex expander tool this weekend and finish up the rough-in for my full bathroom. Any tips on performing the rough-in? Right now the builder left me with 2 1/2" hot stubs off these mini-plastic manifolds in the joist-space and 1 1/2" cold stub. I need to add 2 more 1/2" cold stubs for the additional toilet and sink lines. I was intending to tap into the 3/4" line with a new manifold, any tips before I tap in or what to buy? Since I'll be tapping into the main, I plan to shut the house water off and then try to bleed off the pressure through turning on the kitchen taps upstairs, would this be a wise choice? Would it be smarter to bleed off through the washing machine line in the basement? For the toilet line, I plan to run a 1/2" cold line down the warm side of a wall space and then put a 90 degree pex elbow on and have a small stub of pex sticking out of the wall horizontally. What kind of fitting should I buy so I can close off the Pex and have a valve there ready to accept a standard toilet braided line? Same question, what would you recommend I do for closing off the pex stubs for the shower valve body? I have the rough-in valve body on order and it accepts 1/2" copper sweat joints, but I plan to attach those later and have the pex running to the shower wall-space and closed off with some kind of valve. This valve would likely be a temporary install and then I would transition to copper about 12" from the valve body once it arrives. The key is that I don't plan to rent the pex expander again and I need to be done with all pex work this weekend. Thanks!
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Feb 11, 2011 15:34
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Ahz posted:Back to more plumbing work on the basement! drat this is a lot of questions. Hopefully I answer them all. First off its a crimp tool you would rent from home depot. Unless you have found a place that rents out a wirsbo expander that I am unaware of. Personally I think it may be just as quick to skip the manifolds. And cut in 2 3/4 pex tee's. Then run 3/4 lines to your first fixture and branch a 1/2 inch line off. Then if you only have 1 fixture left to hit run. Reduce down to half inch and run your other pipe to that. Turn off the water coming into the house. Shut the valve at the water heater so you don't accidentally siphon it. Open any fixture from upstairs to relief the pressure. Then go down stairs and drain it down at the washer box. For that toilet, is the wall you plan on running it in, on an outside wall? If it is you will want to take caution. Because depending on your climate it may have a chance of freezing. To stub it out you will need to get an angle stop at home depot to connect. http://www.pexsupply.com/Watts-H160500-1-2-PEX-Angle-Stop-1-4-Turn-3769000-p Also you can choose many ways to support it. Hold Rite makes many different ways to support it. What I usually do is through a 2x4 in the wall and drill out an 1 3/8th inch hole. I stub out my one then put a suspencurlater in it to hold the pex rigid. Shown here: http://www.siouxchief.com/Support/Supply-Hangers/Suspensulator.V847I To adapt to the shower you have many options. You can use some pex sweat adapters. Shown here: http://www.google.com/products/cata...ved=0CEoQ8wIwAQ I usually will stub out a decent amount of copper so I can strap that to a 2x4 that I installed to support my shower valve. Let me know if I missed any questions.
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Feb 11, 2011 16:47
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Thanks! Actually it is a Wirsbo expander. My whole house is done with Wirsbo so I figure it would be easier to rent the tool (at a plumbing suppply shop) for $25 and run with the same system throughout. I also intended to go with manifolds because my 3/4" trunk is only about 6' from the bathroom and extending the 3/4" would mean buying some 3/4" pipe I may not need to save a few feet of 1/2". I forgot to mention though, I actually am running a tankless 200k btu unit instead of a tank. I was planning to shut down the power to the tankless unit and then cut off the house main supply. Would I also want to shut out the tankless unit via the isolation valves that are installed to it? Also should I buy 90 angle pieces for the pex turns in a 2x4 wall? I see that 1/2" pex seems to bend fairly easily but I'm worried about the flex in the line within the wall and possibly leaning up against the other side of drywall (which could get nails or something down the road).
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Feb 11, 2011 17:35
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Ahz posted:Thanks! Thats cool you can rent the expander. You will need some 3/4 pipe to cut in the manifold too. Its your choice on that, they both work. Yes you should get the 90's for the pex in the walls. If you pound in the suspenserlators on a verticle 2x4 that is drilled the 90 won't move. Also get the wirsbo angle stops not the pex ones I linked. And get the swt wirsbo adapter not the crimp one i showed. When you turn the water back on to test. Make sure you bleed the hot water line so there is no air in the tankless water heater. Since I don't think it heating an air pocket would be good at all for it.
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Feb 11, 2011 18:23
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I've got a mice problem and I think they're coming into my cabinets from holes around the sink water pipes (whoever built the house put in the flooring of the cabinets and then drilled holes for the pipes). I am going to re-do the floor of the sink cabinet this weekend, but I wanted to check one question. Is it safe to use spray foam insulation directly on/surrounding water pipes?
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Feb 11, 2011 20:23
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Bigass Moth posted:I've got a mice problem and I think they're coming into my cabinets from holes around the sink water pipes (whoever built the house put in the flooring of the cabinets and then drilled holes for the pipes). I am going to re-do the floor of the sink cabinet this weekend, but I wanted to check one question. Yes, but the little fuckers will just chew through the foam.
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Feb 11, 2011 20:54
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Richard Noggin posted:Yes, but the little fuckers will just chew through the foam. How about stuffing steel wool around the pipes?
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Feb 11, 2011 21:24
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Bigass Moth posted:I've got a mice problem and I think they're coming into my cabinets from holes around the sink water pipes (whoever built the house put in the flooring of the cabinets and then drilled holes for the pipes). I am going to re-do the floor of the sink cabinet this weekend, but I wanted to check one question. You could always just drill the right hole for the water line. And then have wood almost touching the pipe. This would require you taking off the old angle stop.
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Feb 11, 2011 22:17
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Tackled replacing the overflowing ineffecient water softener with a new GE today. First time really getting into plumbing, the most I've done before this is a couple of sharkbites and a vanity drain reorientation. I think I did well, no leaks!
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Feb 12, 2011 23:18
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Messadiah posted:Tackled replacing the overflowing ineffecient water softener with a new GE today. First time really getting into plumbing, the most I've done before this is a couple of sharkbites and a vanity drain reorientation. I think I did well, no leaks! Only think I could suggest that could be done differently is. Well PVC isn't the best material but regardless of that. I would have installed some ball valves on in inlet and outlet side. So if you have to replace it you can do it with ease. Also does that have a bypass? I can't tell from the picture. But if it doesn't , installing one can be handy.
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Feb 12, 2011 23:26
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Rd Rash 1000cc posted:Only think I could suggest that could be done differently is. It came with a sliding plastic bypass yes. Also provided for connections to the water were 1" plastic NPTs so I had to come up with a way to get from 1/2" copper to 1" threads and using PVC was the cheapest (and easiest for me, I've got lots of PVC experience) solution I could come up with. Any better suggestions on how I could've got from 1/2" copper to the 1" male threads on the softener? I was undecided on whether I should add in the ball-valve bypass and decided not to. The old softener lasted 14 years, so 6 hours of work isn't a lot compared to how long this thing hopefully works for.
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Feb 12, 2011 23:56
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Messadiah posted:It came with a sliding plastic bypass yes. Also provided for connections to the water were 1" plastic NPTs so I had to come up with a way to get from 1/2" copper to 1" threads and using PVC was the cheapest (and easiest for me, I've got lots of PVC experience) solution I could come up with. Any better suggestions on how I could've got from 1/2" copper to the 1" male threads on the softener? That would be a perfect way to bypass. But if it has the plastic bypass then you should fine. Now pvc isnt legal for water lines. I'd use Cpvc atleast but even that after 10 years becomes brittle. If you are scared of soldering you can use crimp pex fittings.
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Feb 13, 2011 01:56
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I wasn't scared of soldering, and it turned out to actually be really easy to do so I'm glad I learned it. My problem with copper was that I couldn't find any with 1" female NPT, I found one that was 1/2" to 3/4" NPT but then I couldn't get from that to 1" NPT which was why I went with PVC. Also didn't know that PVC wasn't legal for water anymore.
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Feb 13, 2011 04:49
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Well the builders came by and inspected the leaking radon pipe. Turns out the joint was barely sealed and able to be slipped apart with the help of knocking it with a screwdriver. At first all they wanted to do was slip it apart, slather it with blue PCV cement, and then try to slide it back together. Well they got it maybe 1/8" back into the fitting and jizzed about a bucket of goop over the loose fitting in the hopes that would work. It didn't.   It was leaking water more than it did before they broke the joint apart, cause before it was a lovely joint fully seated. This time it was a super lovely joint seated maybe 1/8". Since none of this poo poo was in writing, I started snapping pictures of the group of three guys doing the work. Two are home builder reps trying to do the cheapest and quickest fix, the third was a competent plumber overruled cause he wasn't the one in charge. Called them back shortly after they left the first time, told them they hosed up, and would need to actually fix it. This time they cut the opening up further, pried the joint apart again, realized that there was dirt and sand in it from a lovely guy first installing the line, and did what I hope was a permanent fix. It consisted of chopping out about a foot, sanding the inside of the female joint lightly to clean it, get a new section of PVC, and a heavy duty rubber boot to connect the sections. End result is below, no more leaks, yay!  This one the plumber guy actually said was the right way to fix this, and would completely stand behind the repair if it ever hosed up ever again. What do you guys think?
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Feb 13, 2011 06:28
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dietcokefiend posted:Well the builders came by and inspected the leaking radon pipe. Turns out the joint was barely sealed and able to be slipped apart with the help of knocking it with a screwdriver. It looks like it should do fine. Only think that they could have done differently was if they used a shielding fernco.
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Feb 13, 2011 22:14
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Rd Rash 1000cc posted:It looks like it should do fine. Only think that they could have done differently was if they used a shielding fernco. I guess I can say I wasn't surprised by the first repair... but who in their right mind would have that it would have held as-is?
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Feb 13, 2011 23:06
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Thanks again! So I opted not to go with Wirsbo because they only sell the tubing in 300' lengths and I only need 120'. I went with sharkbite transitions from Wirsbo to crimp pex and I have some questions. So I'll be water testing everything tonight, but I was wondering about my crimp joints. I have some crimp joints that aren't totally straight when they got crimped and now they're crimped at a slight angle. Let's say they water test ok, do you think they could be an issue down the road? If I seal everything up and I get leaks in 3 months I'd be worried of course. Also for copper at my shower valve, I did my first time solder work and it's kind of ugly, but seems sealed. I used plenty of flux and they are kind of lumpy joints, but if they water test ok, even if some parts are black and rough looking, do you think they could break up in time? Also for the showerhead chrome nipple, since it doesn't screw all the way into the fitting, I assume teflon tape and tighten to the correct angle owuld be suffice? Or would I want to use putty? or something else?
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Feb 16, 2011 20:12
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Ahz posted:Thanks again! Get rid of the shark bite. That could be the first thing that fails. Because it solely relys on a rubber o-Ring to seal it. You can use crimp pex in pex-A (wirsbo). On the crimp joins you should be fine. As long as the crimper is calibrated right there shouldn't be a problem. Test it and find out if you don't have a gauge to slip over the ring to text it. To much flux is not a good thing. You only need a thin layer on the fitting. If you put to much flux , you can get a flux pocket. If a fitting leaks you wont be able to resolder it. You will have to bleed the pressure down, unsweet the fitting. Reclean and flux it and solder it again. On the chrome nipple, put teflon tape and dope on the straight piece going into the wall. screw it in hand tight then put a screw driver in the angled part and tighten it the rest of the way. Its only half inch so tightening it decently snug is all you need. Be mindful of how big of a screw driver you use so you don't over tighten it and tweak the nipple. On the side that attaches to the head just put dope on the first 3 threads and then put the shower head on. Use a crescent wrench to tighten it on. Don't put teflon top on it because it will show and it looks tacky.
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Feb 16, 2011 20:46
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Awesome, you saved me $80 in sharkbites! The crimp went well and I tied in to the Pex-A fine, no leaks so far! I'll check in the morning and see how it goes. There was one crimp that didn't turn out, I got lazy and didn't cut the pex on a good angle in a tight spot, attached the coupling and crimped it to my new hot shower line. Well it's crimped, but the crimp ring is literally at the edge of the burr fitting so the ring is just over 1/4, maybe close to 3/8 away from the inside of the fitting. It's dry and running, any thoughts? Thanks
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Feb 17, 2011 06:48
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Ahz posted:Awesome, you saved me $80 in sharkbites! Hold up another fitting next to it. If the ring is not fully over the barbed fitting then it could give you problems years down the road. If the entire ring is on the barbed fitting and the pipe. It should be fine.
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Feb 17, 2011 15:01
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Yeah I held up another fitting and the ring is still over 100% of the end of the fitting, right at the edge of the barb. The morning after and everything is still tight and dry! I was wondering if you could do me a huge favour? I have this valve for my shower kit: http://www.deltafaucet.ca/bath/details/R18222-XO.html There are some installation instructions and spec sheets in PDF on that page for the R18222 XO valve that I bought, but it's not entirely clear as to what depth I install the valve in regards to the finished wall before I install the cartridges etc. It does mention the wall, but it's not really clear. I'm paranoid I'll install it and it'll be a big issue after I'm done tiling.
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Feb 17, 2011 20:30
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[[ Please wait, retrieving information... ]]Ahz posted:Yeah I held up another fitting and the ring is still over 100% of the end of the fitting, right at the edge of the barb. Good valve, I don't remember the exact measurement. But just make sure that black plastic piece is against the shower wall.
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Feb 18, 2011 05:17
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So the black plaster guard would be flush with the front of the finished wall?
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Feb 18, 2011 05:30
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Ahz posted:So the black plaster guard would be flush with the front of the finished wall? What are you putting on your wall. How thick is the greenboard and how thick is your tile?
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Feb 18, 2011 06:02
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The wall is a 2x4 wall and I'm putting in 1/2" drywall, then a waterproof schluter kerdi membrane set in thinset, then some 3/8" tile over thinset. I'm thinking that the wall including drywall thickness will be about 1-1/8" thick.
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Feb 18, 2011 17:31
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If you make the plastic piece touch the dry it should be fine.
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Feb 18, 2011 18:14
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Cool, so you mean the further out sticking part of the plastic piece touching the outermost part of the drywall?
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Feb 18, 2011 22:43
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Ahz posted:Cool, so you mean the further out sticking part of the plastic piece touching the outermost part of the drywall? Either or, you have a ton of space to mess with it. Just make the black piece flush with the dry wall. So you will have to cut the dry wall around the black piece. If that made no sence you can ask me on AIM: Rd Rash 1000cc
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Feb 18, 2011 23:09
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vwman18 posted:I need some help with some plumbing issues, starting with the toilet leak from hell. We just moved into a house and knew that one of the toilets was wobbly. I didn't know that the taink had a slow leak causing it to refill periodically. I couldn't get the floor bolts tight so I yanked the toilet. The flange was broken, no problem, replaced it. Toilet mounted solid now. Replaced the flapper, still dribbling into the bowl. Ok, went ahead and replaced the whole flush valve assembly, fixed that problem. What's this water on the floor? There was now a leak at the fill line/fill valve coupling. Crap. Ran out and got a new supply line, seemed ok but still leaked slightly where the line runs through the coupling nut. Argh. Replaced the fill valve, no leaks! Come back an hour later, what's this water on the floor? Crap! There is the smallest drip coming from the fill valve. I can see water drops slowly forming on one wing of the coupling nut that secures the valve to the porcelain. I pulled it apart, cleaned the porcelain and reassembled it but I still have that tiny drip. What else is there to do? Everything not porcelain has been replaced. Quoting myself because it's been a while since I had asked the question. Rd Rash, you had suggested I run a snake/bladder thingy to fix my washing machine issue. I didn't have a bladder, but I did run a standard plumbing snake down the washing machine drain - no result. Later that week I did go and buy a bladder, and still the same issues crop up. Any further advice? Should I make another extension using bigger piping? Honestly, its not a lot of water being spilled on the floor. Its barely enough to make the grout damp, but it does spread out and I know eventually it will be a problem. Also, regarding my toilet, that seems to have fixed itself without any interference from me. Thank goodness for small miracles.
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Feb 21, 2011 23:20
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| # ? May 19, 2024 13:39 |
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vwman18 posted:Quoting myself because it's been a while since I had asked the question. Rd Rash, you had suggested I run a snake/bladder thingy to fix my washing machine issue. I didn't have a bladder, but I did run a standard plumbing snake down the washing machine drain - no result. Later that week I did go and buy a bladder, and still the same issues crop up. Any further advice? Should I make another extension using bigger piping? Honestly, its not a lot of water being spilled on the floor. Its barely enough to make the grout damp, but it does spread out and I know eventually it will be a problem. Extending the stand pipe may or may not fix it. It all depends what they did in the wall. If they put a really short stand pipe then it will fix it. But if its over 30 inches then it will be fine.
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Feb 22, 2011 01:49
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