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My vote: 1: Federated Suns: Hanse wears the pants. 2: Lyran Commonwealth: Melissa might not wear the pants, but she can starve Hanse's nation of stuff it needs to be awesome with. 3: Draconis Combine: Theodore is getting into stride here. 4: Free Worlds League: still not over the latest civil war. 5: Capellan Confederation: Max is circling the drain at this point.
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Feb 25, 2011 05:41
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PoptartsNinja posted:Well, it's that time of the week again. Time for me to work another back-to-back shift. I'm working on the update now, but I doubt I'll be done tonite. Sorry, everyone. :C Personally: 1. FedSuns - competent military, healthy economy and Hanse is a force multiplier by himself 2. Shared rank by the Lyran Commonwealth and Draconis Combine - They're almost exact opposites. The Elsies have a mammoth economy but a cumbersome and often badly commanded military. The Dracs have an economy that is utter shite for the size of their realm, but the DCMS is fast, mean and competent. 3. FWL - No, YOU shut up.  4. The Cappies - Still the smallest kid on the block and burdened with Mad Max. Magni fucked around with this message at 16:51 on Feb 25, 2011 |
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Feb 25, 2011 06:49
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Longinus00 posted:Lord Macaulay completes his epic history:  Yes, I know where you got your format from.
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Feb 25, 2011 07:19
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ZeeToo posted:
Wanted to make this comment as well. Also, I'm finally caught up with this thread. As one who never played a BattleTech or MechWarrior game in my life, I find this a very compelling thread. All I know about BattleTech is what I've picked up by nerd osmosis on another message board and some wiki binging on Sarna, so...
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Feb 25, 2011 07:40
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GhostStalker posted:Wanted to make this comment as well. All I know about
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Feb 25, 2011 08:54
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Generally speaking, the heirarchy goes counter-clockwise starting from the FedSuns: Davion, Kurita, Steiner, Marik, Liao. It might get upset occasionally but it's the basic rule. Historically all time, I think Steiner has lost the most territory overall, though. Economically, though, there's only two states (Steiner and Marik) that are even worth mentioning. Liao's too busy getting smacked around to keep their economy intact, Kurita's entire GNP goes towards military production, and House Davion guts its economy every time it goes to war. Defiance Industries fucked around with this message at 11:04 on Feb 25, 2011 |
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Feb 25, 2011 11:01
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I would say in order of power: 1. Fed Suns (Hanse  )2. Draconis Combine (The biggest baddest military and Theodore is starting to get his poo poo together.) 3. Lyran Commonwealth (the biggest and best economy, an alliance with the fed suns and Katrina won't put up with any of that social general poo poo) 4. Free Worlds League (Janos is an old has been, Duncan is an idiot and FakeThomas Marik is nowhere to be seen). 5.Cappellan Confederation (Max is mad, Romano is madder the military is shot to poo poo and Sun Tzu is not even a gleam in Papa Hanse's and his mothers eye)
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Feb 25, 2011 12:59
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In order of power? 1. Lyran Commonwealth: while most of their COs are known to be useless, it's still the richest Successor State and has greatest number of working battlemech factories. As such, on paper, they can field an incredibly large and powerful force 2. Federated Suns: Hanse Davion. The Fox, while not reaching Marty Stu levels, is still a political and tactical genius, the FedSun is not a poor State and has the New Avalon institute, although the resources avaiable are inferior to the LC 3. Draconis Combine: there's a reason the DC have always been considered a threat by Hanse. Although the DC lacks the resources of the Commonwealth or Hanse's genius, they have still got a top-notch army, great leadership and some toys from Comstar which can act as force multipliers 4. Free World League: their economy is better than the Cappellans'...? 5. Cappellan Confederation: economy in shambles, insane leaders, crap army (with the exception of the Death Commandos)
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Feb 25, 2011 14:32
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Ahh, but what we must account for is the vector of each nation; their potential energy, if you will. Snapshots in history are rarely indicative of the truth. As we know what happens in the future of the 3028 world, we can use later events to assess the actual trend direction of each state at that time. Thus: 5) Federated Suns - Do not win much of anything after the 4th War. Despite using RCTs, are frequently trounced by opponents who do not, including pieces of the Northwind Highlanders and Camacho's effing Caballeros. Best units suffer from cut-scene incompetence. Cannot even evict the Taurian Concordat from the Pleiades. 4) Lyran Commonwealth - Lack the political will to keep the spoils of the 4th War. Nondi Steiner far too close to command for anyone's good. The DCMS exterminated the Smoke Jaguars, while the aptly-named LAAF and friends cannot hold a world against the Jade Falcons. If you look closely at the mailed fist of Steiner, you can see bits of the Commonwealth (Tamar, Skye, Lyons, Ark-Royal) leaking through the fingers, as though it were crushing a pudding. 3) Draconis Combine - A largely DCMS operation wipes out an invader Clan's presence in their territory. See above. Win the War of 3039 against both Steiner and Davion, seizing one of the FedSuns' most cutting-edge production facilities in the process, even after a civil war in 3034. Conjure a dozen Mech Regiments from the Dragon's rear end. 2) Free Worlds League - An economy so strong, it can not only refit the armed forces of the League AND provide refit kits for the other Successor State armies, it can support secret programs to build whole regiments for the Word of Blake, not to mention the quantities of vastly expensive WarShips sailing from League yards. 1) Capellan Confederation - Beneficiaries of the Davion backlash. Combined with long-standing strengths like McCarron's Developer-Armored Cavalry, the inertia of the CapCon's rebirth is so strong that by the time of the Jihad, even the weakest elements of their military (7th Confed Reserve Cavalry; Light and Green) can destroy the best of the FedSuns (180th Dragoons of the Lexington Combat Group; Elite Assault Reg't, plus two regiments of heavy armor).
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Feb 25, 2011 15:58
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The Merry Marauder posted:Ahh, but what we must account for is the vector of each nation; their potential energy, if you will. Snapshots in history are rarely indicative of the truth. As we know what happens in the future of the 3028 world, we can use later events to assess the actual trend direction of each state at that time. Thus: Well, well. Merry, merry... quite contrary, aren't you? oh god someone help me I can't stop punning
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Feb 25, 2011 16:43
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Depends. If the writer's just knocking one out for cash (or is Michael Stackpole) then FedCom can do no wrong. But if they've become entranced by the films of Akira Kurosawa, then the Dracs are supreme. And if they're poo poo nuts Alex Jones listeners, the Word of Blake craps out three regiments of mechs and a Death Star.
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Feb 25, 2011 16:53
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The Merry Marauder posted:Ahh, but what we must account for is the vector of each nation; their potential energy, if you will. Snapshots in history are rarely indicative of the truth. As we know what happens in the future of the 3028 world, we can use later events to assess the actual trend direction of each state at that time. Thus: Of course the Capellans take the largest Republic of the Sphere chunks, and their star has been on the rise for a while now, but look at the Free Worlds League post-Jihad. Oh that's right, it no longer exists.
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Feb 25, 2011 17:36
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Arquinsiel posted:You're neglecting to continue the trend into the Dark Ages, where the Fedsuns start to kick the Taurian's asses, poke the Capellans and Dracs a bit more, take some chunks out of the Republic of the Sphere (like everyone else did) and generally go back to being dicks. What madness is this? History ends in 3076! Besides, only a blind fool would consider the FedSuns to be strong with the juggernaut of the Filtvelt Coalition hanging over them like the Feather of Damocles. Ahem. Slightly more seriously, what you mention could be construed as a corrective reaction to the nadir of 3068, in much the same way as the FedSuns' decline from 3030's zenith was inevitable and predictive. Combining the two trends would be a mistake. In my initial (joke) post, I considered discussing the Waltzian bandwagoning that followed the epic victory that was the 4th War, so strong as to force the hand of the principal non-state actor, etc etc, until I realized I was basically writing one of those sidebar pieces from a Handbook.
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Feb 25, 2011 17:59
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Arquinsiel posted:Ylook at the Free Worlds League post-Jihad. If you take it still further, the reformation in 3139 means that, having gone from zero back to full existence, the FWL has infinite potential.
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Feb 25, 2011 18:02
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I posted:until I realized I was basically writing one of those sidebar pieces from a Handbook. For the record, this is not a good thing. On that note, here is my favorite in-universe fake-text, because it is hilariously distorted. (from Brush Wars) The Marian Hegemony on the Ronin War: "In 3033, the Respublica dur Free Rasalhague was born. In 3034, covert units from the nearby Draconis Combine invaded the new nation to retake it by force after diplomatic relations broke down. Over seventy-five regiments invaded the small nation, which barely survived only after the Lyran Alliance stepped in to beat back the Dragon's elite troops. Trying to save face, the Coordinator had the commanders of many of the participating regiments executed for their failure to follow their duty. In 3036, more Combine troops under the guise of pirates from the Oberon Confederation again attempted to seize worlds, but failed after the Lyran-built First Thunder Regiment demolished their probing attacks. Content to maintain the status quo, the Combine stayed away from Rasalhague until the 3050s, when they enticed the Clans to hit the Republic instead of the Combine."
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Feb 25, 2011 19:42
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The Merry Marauder posted:3) Draconis Combine - A largely DCMS operation wipes out an invader Clan's presence in their territory. Might be overstating it a bit considering that while their forces made up the biggest chunk of the forces in the operation, they had logistical support from other states, and the other %60 of Op. Bulldog contained a good portion of the Comguard and two separate Clan forces.
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Feb 25, 2011 22:48
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Speaking military-only, I'd say: 1. Federated Suns - Good leadership, strong tactical skill and an economically strong realm behind the army. Not to mention holding their own just fine against... 2. Draconis Combine - Unsurprisingly for a realm that worships soldiers and has been aggressively expansionist since about their begining, they have seriously skilled troops. Some issues with overly rigid strategies and the death-before-dishonor lunacy, but it's pretty telling that once Theodore started working against that kind of crap the DC managed to pull out a victory against the Federated Commonwealth at drat near its height in 3039. They do also currently have the Rasalhague issue ongoing, which causes its own issues, and of course their economy is not so hot at the moment for them either. 3. Tie between Lyran Commonwealth/Free Worlds League. Both fairly wealthy, but with two different issues affecting their militaries. For the Lyrans, the "social general" and other military politics hurt them badly once the fighting leaves Tharkad for the actual frontlines. The Free Worlds League has a competent military on paper, but in reality it's something of a question WHOSE military they are given the general factionalism that nation suffers. Minus a clear threat (and sometimes not even then) marching their forces against something is an exercise in herding cats. Both nations also have significant civil unrest to worry about in the existence of Skye/Andurien for the LC and FWL respectively. Though the FWL may be worse off for unrest depending on what happened to Anton Marik's rebellion in this timeline (no Wolf Dragoons to aid him then kill him in this one). 4. Cappellan Confederation - Though ol' Maxie is more competent than generally given credit for, and in this timeline he apparently is much better advised, the fact does remain that the CC is the smallest of the nations in both size and army. That doesn't count them out as a power of course, but it does make anything they do an uphill struggle compared to the other Successor States.
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Feb 26, 2011 00:03
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PoptartsNinja posted:So, to start a new discussion: How would you personally rate the 5 successor states (Draconis Combine, Federated Suns, Lyran Commonwealth, Capellan Confederation, Free Worlds League) in order of power, and why (3025-3028 era)? 1. Draconis Combine: There's a reason that Hanse wanted to team up with the Lyrans- the DCMS, in this era, is the most effective military around. Solid 'mech production, combined with an excellent Aerospace arm and effective use of mercenaries makes for a hell of a hard target. (The 'Death to Mercs' order crippled the Snakes in many ways, especially the fact that they could no longer use small merc units to secure their rear areas.) 2. Federated Suns: Though usually badly split by the eternal struggle for control between the March Lords and the First Prince, the AFFS is not far behind the Dracs in capability. The fact that the Sandovals are pretty much in line with Hanse's stated goals (the destruction of the Combine) and that Michael Hasek-Davion has been neutered by the co-opting of his son has permitted Hanse Davion to have a degree of freedom in military planning that is rare in FedSuns history. The conversion away from pure 'Mech regiments and towards Regimental Combat Teams is an innovation that also greatly improves the ability to project force and then hold the ground they take. 3. Lyran Commonwealth: The Thundering Herd is crippled by the abundance of so-called 'political generals', but the staggering economy that the Steiners have so carefully tended gives them an ability to absorb punishment that is unmatched. The Dracs can run rings around them, and Marik can match them face to face, but the Lyrans are hard to put down permanently. The hidden strength of the Steiners is the vicious specops capabilities of Loki - though they are usually kept muzzled by overly-soft House leaders. 4. Free Worlds League: "I against my brother, my brother and I against my cousin, my cousin and I against the outsider" does not make for effective force projection. Nonetheless, the FWLM, when all pointed in the same direction, are probably on par with the AFFS - they've used combined arms tactics to a greater degree than most Houses for centuries. It takes a serious external threat to really pull them together, though. 5. Capellan Confederation: Extremely limited 'mech production, mostly confined to Tikonov, combined with structural changes to the CCAF to avoid internal rebellion (the lack of any rank above colonel, for example) have left the Confederation the militarily weakest of the Great Houses. The CCAF is a largely defensive institution, spread out in battalion strength across the densely packed systems of House Liao. The only thing that has really kept the Confederation in the running is the fact that they have a robust economy, and the Maskirova is the best intelligence service in the Sphere - when they are not crippled by Liao infighting.
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Feb 26, 2011 00:49
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Mary Annette posted:One of the things I love about Battletech is that it inverts the "Gundam Golden Rule", which states that for any given technology, one-off, cobbled-together prototypes are exponentially more powerful than mass-production models. Really? I don't think Gundam has any of those, just 'proof-of-concept' mechs that are too expensive to mass-produce properly. 
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Feb 26, 2011 02:39
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Son Ryo posted:Really? I don't think Gundam has any of those, just 'proof-of-concept' mechs that are too expensive to mass-produce properly. Alright, maybe "cobbled-together" is a bit harsh. But still, http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4w1oqAHa_gA&t=742s "...it has no legs."   That's a joke, I say, a joke, son. Anyway, derail over. My bad.  VVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVV Mary Annette fucked around with this message at 05:03 on Feb 26, 2011 |
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Feb 26, 2011 04:09
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Mary Annette posted:Alright, maybe "cobbled-together" is a bit harsh. But still, Ah, but that wasn't a 'cobbled-together prototype', it was a mass production unit that hadn't been completely assembled yet (and, as the technician mentioned, the legs were purely cosmetic). I can provide a link to further information if you like, but we should take any further discussion out of this thread.
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Feb 26, 2011 04:39
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Mary Annette posted:Alright, maybe "cobbled-together" is a bit harsh. But still, FOOL! The Zeong is at 100% combat capacity!  Although clearly, the real reason Char lost was his inability to kick Amuro.  Back on topic, my rankings go like so: 1) The Lyran Commonwealth: Say what you like about their tendency to promote incompetent leadership, but the Lyrans are the only nation with the economic or production capacity to fight an extended war. While the rest of the Inner Sphere is still struggling to find mechs to put pilots in, the Lyrans have multiple major, operational mech factories and the economy and resources to churn them out en masse if need be. Add in the able command of leaders like Caesar Steiner and the fact that a war would quickly remove the wheat from the chaff in terms of commanders, and the Lyrans are the elephant in the room everyone is trying not to talk about. 2) The Draconis Combine: Despite being the polar opposite of the Lyrans, with limited production ability and resources, the sheer skill and logistical efficiency of the DCMS makes them a serious threat. So intimidating did Hanse Davion find the notion of DCMS soldiers in Star League mechs that he called off his invasion of Dieron before even confirming how many soldiers they had. THAT is telling beyond mere words. 3) The Free Worlds League: By virtue of simply not being targeted by anyone else, despite their divided loyalties the FWL has the infrastructure to fight major wars. However, the 'divided' bit is why they're only third. 4) The Federated Suns: Not because of incompetence, but overextension of resources is the FedSun ranked fourth. As history would show, they were unable to hold their Capellan gains from the Fourth Succession War, even after being far from the Clan fighting and thus having ample time to recover militarily. Put simply, Hanse gambled a little too often and lost a little too much in terms of materiel. 5) The Capellan Confederation: Space Chinese get no love.
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Feb 26, 2011 05:14
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Really, the primary problem that the Commonwealth had was already being combatted by Katrina Steiner, who rushed promising young officers like Caesar Steiner and Christian Campbell up the ranks quickly (while repeatedly extending them royal pardons for their shenanigans out of combat, because those dudes were party animals and fighting machines) while removing incompetent officers from positions of battlefield leadership by moving them in to positions like Brigade commanders, theater XOs, procurement/quartermaster/transport/whatever. The thing that brought it back was ironically the alliance with House Davion, which everyone claimed would "fix" it. Rather than continue on with Katrina's course, Hanse just brought in a bunch of Davion officers and installed them in leadership positions through the 3040s, after Katrina died and he was in charge. As a result, backlash began to stir up among Steiner officers, and attitudes that Katrina Steiner and her circle had opposed became once more acceptable in many circles. Then when Katherine seceded from the FedCom, she put these people in positions of importance because she could count on their loyalty and they were held in regard by other officers as "traditional Lyrans who opposed Davion imperialism." So had the FedCom stayed as two separate states with two separate armies, Archon Melissa probably would have had General of the Armies Caesar Steiner commanding for her the meanest fighting force in the Inner Sphere backed up by the best logistical base there is. Sure eventually ComStar gets threatened, but that's when Steiner and Campbell high five because, poo poo, this is the excuse they've been waiting for. Defiance Industries fucked around with this message at 05:42 on Feb 26, 2011 |
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Feb 26, 2011 05:38
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I'm kinda surprised how many think the Draconis Combine lacks a manufacturing base. Benjamin, Pesht, Deiron, New Samarkand, Luthien, Hachiman, Alshain, Rasalhague... What the Draconis Combine lacks, in the 3025-3028 era, is innovation.
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Feb 26, 2011 06:50
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So what books should I start by getting? I just realiezed I loved reading about huge robots slugging it out.
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Feb 26, 2011 09:49
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The Warrior series by Michael Stackpole is good pulpy fun and all about the 4th Succession War and the events leading up to it (3026-3029).
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Feb 26, 2011 10:50
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And if you want Clan stuff(as you should, ristar), Blood of Kerensky is as good as it gets.
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Feb 26, 2011 11:39
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PoptartsNinja posted:I'm kinda surprised how many think the Draconis Combine lacks a manufacturing base. Here is the list of 'Mechs produced in the Combine in 3025: Stinger LAM Panther Dragon Quickdraw Charger Here is the list of 'Mechs produced in the Taurian Concordat in 3025: Locust (x2 factories) Stinger (x3 factories) Wasp (x2 factories) Commando Hatchetman Griffin Thunderbolt (x2 factories) Archer Warhammer (x2 factories) Marauder (x3 factories)
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Feb 26, 2011 16:02
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Carbolic posted:Here is the list of 'Mechs produced in the Combine in 3025: Is the Taurian Concordat really that powerful 3025?
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Feb 26, 2011 16:04
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Affi posted:Is the Taurian Concordat really that powerful 3025? Well, they sure as hell don't have the Hatchetman. Taurians do have a couple big military manufacturers, on Taurus, Pinard, and New Vandenberg that make the classics. As for the Combine, I don't have my books handy, but I can tell you off the top of my head that Al Na'ir makes the Atlas, and I believe there is a P-Hawk facility in the DC as well. Most of the DC's newer Mech lines were captured from the FedSuns in the 4th War (Marduk) and 3039 (Quentin). The Merry Marauder fucked around with this message at 16:47 on Feb 26, 2011 |
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Feb 26, 2011 16:44
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The Merry Marauder posted:Well, they sure as hell don't have the Hatchetman. According to the Periphery SB, yes they did. I believe TR:3050 retconned it out as "bad intelligence." The Merry Marauder posted:As for the Combine, I don't have my books handy, but I can tell you off the top of my head that Al Na'ir makes the Atlas, and I believe there is a P-Hawk facility in the DC as well. Most of the DC's newer Mech lines were captured from the FedSuns in the 4th War (Marduk) and 3039 (Quentin). My list was from the Kurita House book. By the time TR:3050 came out there was an Atlas factory on Al Na'ir but it's not clear when it was built. The Jarett plant of GK&T Enterprises, which produced only the Panther in 3025, appears to have expanded to include a Phoenix Hawk line before its capture by the Clans (TR:3050). The House Kurita book refers to plans by GK&T to create new Panther factories in coming years, and sure enough, the 20 Year Update refers to the New Oslo plant of GK&T (which produced no 'Mechs in 3025) as a "BattleMech facility" that was inherited by the FRR and which was subsequently expanded to produce Archers and Panthers. By TR:3050 this plant was relocated to Satalice in an ultimately unsuccessful attempt to flee the Clan invasion, and was producing Panthers, Phoenix Hawks, and Archers. But none of these existed in 3025, at least, not unless they were subsequently retconned in books I haven't read (I lost interest in the story around the FedCom Civil War, and stopped playing the game at the Jihad). To me it's pretty clear that they didn't coordinate the House books to give the Great Houses production roughly proportionate to each other. Thus the Combine has far less 'Mech production (or at least, fewer factories) than the other Great Houses, even in proportion to their supposed economic strength. Giving them Marduk in the 4thSW and Quentin in the War of 3039 (!), and many new lines of 'Mechs on Luthien, seems to have been an attempt to catch them up to the rest of the Inner Sphere in production. Of course, taking Quentin and Marduk away from House Davion meant that that House ended up with far fewer 'Mech lines after 3039 than you'd expect of the strongest military power in the Inner Sphere.
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Feb 26, 2011 18:35
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Now you made me fish my books out.Carbolic posted:According to the Periphery SB, yes they did. I believe TR:3050 retconned it out as "bad intelligence." Right. It was silly, given that it was a proprietary Mech design first fielded in 3023. TRO:3050 is sufficiently embarrassed that it devotes more than half the page to explaining it. Carbolic posted:By the time TR:3050 came out there was an Atlas factory on Al Na'ir but it's not clear when it was built. The original TRO:3025 lists Al Na'ir as an Atlas production location. Carbolic posted:The Jarett plant of GK&T Enterprises, which produced only the Panther in 3025, appears to have expanded to include a Phoenix Hawk line before its capture by the Clans (TR:3050). It's Alshain Weaponry that's on Jarett. I have no source for how long it's been there. Carbolic posted:To me it's pretty clear that they didn't coordinate the House books to give the Great Houses production roughly proportionate to each other. Thus the Combine has far less 'Mech production (or at least, fewer factories) than the other Great Houses, even in proportion to their supposed economic strength. Giving them Marduk in the 4thSW and Quentin in the War of 3039 (!), and many new lines of 'Mechs on Luthien, seems to have been an attempt to catch them up to the rest of the Inner Sphere in production. Of course, taking Quentin and Marduk away from House Davion meant that that House ended up with far fewer 'Mech lines after 3039 than you'd expect of the strongest military power in the Inner Sphere. I think the House Books are pretty drat slapdash, as you'd expect from the initial sketchings of a new universe, and they've been retconning them ever since. You're right about there being few demonstrated major production lines in Combine space, as far as I know. Factories changing hands is another way to diversify the TO&E of various States. Do remember that Davion took most of Liao's production lines in the 4th War, and so losses to the Combine were not disastrous. Really, it comes down to a shift in developer philosophy. The 3025 era was supposed to be predominated by centuries-old Mechs, handed down through families. When they (the developers) realized it was a good business decision to introduce different designs, the Sphere had to undergo a totally ridiculous level of reindustrialization, which they have been struggling to explain/retcon/justify ever since. So it goes.
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Feb 26, 2011 19:03
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Carbolic posted:Here is the list of 'Mechs produced exclusively in the Combine in 3025: Fixed. They lack the innovation to get most of their facilities up and working, because the average work-day in the Combine is 14 hours. No free time means no time to think. No time to think means no innovation occurs... but I'll get into this when I post my version. VVVV Probably sometime soon, yeah. Really, most of the big changes are mentioned briefly in the first few posts. PoptartsNinja fucked around with this message at 20:09 on Feb 26, 2011 |
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Feb 26, 2011 19:52
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Hey Poptarts, will you gather all your revealed changes to the inner sphere somewhere for easy browsing? All I can recall is that Katrina Steiner got assassinated in your universe and that Allard guy is working for Liao.
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Feb 26, 2011 20:06
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The Merry Marauder posted:Right. It was silly, given that it was a proprietary Mech design first fielded in 3023. TRO:3050 is sufficiently embarrassed that it devotes more than half the page to explaining it. Yes. It's also silly that the TC has more production lines than 3 Great Houses. Particularly when the MoC only has 4 production lines, a fraction of the TC, and they're in the same book. The Merry Marauder posted:The original TRO:3025 lists Al Na'ir as an Atlas production location. Hmm. The fluff on p. 122 refers to Quentin and Hesperus but not Al Na'ir. The tech readout page does mention Na'ir as well as those other two as a production point. I guess you could argue it was always there and was accidentally omitted from HB:HK, or you could argue that most of the manufacturers listed in TR:3025 are defunct and so was the Al Na'ir plant. TR:3050 says "The Draconis Combine was already making plans for a new model to be produced at the Yori Mech Works plant on Na'ir, and designers simply expanded their plans to include Independence Weaponry," which doesn't make it clear whether the "new model" was an upgrade of a model already under production, or a completely new production line. The Merry Marauder posted:It's Alshain Weaponry that's on Jarett. I have no source for how long it's been there. I believe we are still talking about the same thing, because Alshain is a subsidiary of GK&T. HB:HK groups them together under the same header. The Merry Marauder posted:I think the House Books are pretty drat slapdash, as you'd expect from the initial sketchings of a new universe, and they've been retconning them ever since. By far the worst is House Liao, which uses a completely different system for categorizing the morale of units and listing factories in the CC. And is heavy on the distant past but devotes ridiculously little time to the most recent in-game centuries. The Merry Marauder posted:Really, it comes down to a shift in developer philosophy. The 3025 era was supposed to be predominated by centuries-old Mechs, handed down through families. When they (the developers) realized it was a good business decision to introduce different designs, the Sphere had to undergo a totally ridiculous level of reindustrialization, which they have been struggling to explain/retcon/justify ever since. So it goes. Yeah. I didn't mind the introduction of a couple of new 'Mech designs every few game years per faction, but after a while it got ridiculous. I think it would have been more realistic (but would have sold less minis) if they had just kept tinkering on the same basic designs -- for which, in game, the militaries already have a stockpile of spare parts -- and kept upgrading them. Of course the whole Unseen fiasco, and the decision to pretend those 'Mechs didn't exist anymore, would have made that hard. I get the impression BT really polarizes loyalty to a particular era, often based on when you started playing the game. I started paying after the Clans hit, so when I got into the game and the backstory I already knew about the Clans and didn't complain about them ruining the "classic" game. But I can't stand the Jihad because it completely defies the in-universe logic I was used to up until that time.* I can see older BT players feeling the same way about the rapid gearing up of Level 2 technology and the Clans. *Well maybe not entirely. The whole "massive secret Comstar army suddenly appears after the 4th SW" thing was ridiculously implausible but I stomached it, particularly since one of my first exposures to the game was the really entertaining Tukayyid scenario pack and I really liked the Com Guards. When the same massive secret army trick happened, and was pulled by a schism group of original Comstar (so there's even less reason why they'd be able to keep things secret), I checked out. PoptartsNinja posted:'Mechs produced exclusively in the Combine Are you referring to the house universe in this thread? HB:HK refers to its list of 'Mech factories as "the surviving plants" after "the Draconis Combine ha[d] lost many weapons manufacturers to the wars."
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Feb 26, 2011 20:15
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Carbolic posted:Are you referring to the house universe in this thread? HB:HK refers to its list of 'Mech factories as "the surviving plants" after "the Draconis Combine ha[d] lost many weapons manufacturers to the wars." I've gotta double-check that. But yeah, I'm assuming a heavier industrial base still exists (because reindustrialization is stupid), otherwise the clans can and will steamroll everything. Edit: Oh, and another possible idea is that the Draconis Combine 'subcontracts' 'Mech part production to individual families, who say... specialize in constructing one specific piece of a 'Mech; which would explain their bizarre ability to have (according to Phelan Kell) nearly as many 'Mech regiments as the Federated Suns and Lyran Commonwealth put together (assuming you take into account all the regements that got outright taken by or were destroyed fighting the Free Rasalhague Republic). Edit: As a sidenote, the update is waiting on a player since two of them tried to move into the same hex with the same idea (kick the Goblin). I decided to let the 'Mech with the weight advantage take the hex. PoptartsNinja fucked around with this message at 20:28 on Feb 26, 2011 |
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Feb 26, 2011 20:22
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PoptartsNinja posted:Edit: As a sidenote, the update is waiting on a player since two of them tried to move into the same hex with the same idea (kick the Goblin). I decided to let the 'Mech with the weight advantage take the hex. ...Oops. Uh, hey Skinwalker, sorry for the bodycheck?
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Feb 26, 2011 20:28
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What did that poor Goblin ever do to you guys?
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Feb 26, 2011 20:30
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PoptartsNinja posted:Edit: As a sidenote, the update is waiting on a player since two of them tried to move into the same hex with the same idea (kick the Goblin). I decided to let the 'Mech with the weight advantage take the hex. Right, I see. New orders have been sent in.
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Feb 26, 2011 20:32
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PoptartsNinja posted:I've gotta double-check that. But yeah, I'm assuming a heavier industrial base still exists (because reindustrialization is stupid), otherwise the clans can and will steamroll everything. I always wanted to know how the hell Phelan Kell would know that. The guy was on his first mission with his unit and it was for Rasalhague. I mean, unless he just got to see all the intelligence reports and TO&E for both sides because hey, he's Archon Melissa's second cousin, once removed, by marriage.
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Feb 26, 2011 20:48
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