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Sam. posted:The fight with Gunther was the only time I used a fire extinguisher. But speaking of pepper spray: Holy crap. I spent so long experimenting with jumping on top of the emitters and this was right there.
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Feb 26, 2011 12:28
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I thought that was a Shifter feature? fake edit: Looked it up, and it works in vanilla too! DX Wiki posted:It can also be used on certain laser-beam tripwires to bypass them without triggering them: the spray can block the beam without triggering the security device, allowing you to crouch, spray, and slide past undetected. Unfortunately, only a minority of triggers are susceptible to this trick and there's no way to tell without risking setting the trap off.
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Feb 26, 2011 12:59
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I have no idea why Tong thinks that destroying the internet means going back to villages. 1950 wasn't exactly the best time to be alive, but it was hardly the Dark Ages. Unless Bob Page has been systematically murdering everyone who understands computers, networking, or poo poo math, the world's going to be just fine, and the net's going to be rebuilt along lines that are less vulnerable to being completely disabled because one facility somewhere blew up. So basically we go back to before the implementation of the internet (though retaining all the knowledge of how it works, and with more and better knowledge than when it was designed and implemented), we get a new internet that's more robust and resilient to central control, and the backs of the conspiracies that have been running the world are broken? Sounds pretty good to me, especially compared to the transhumanist hell of the Helios ending or the "hey we may be the biggest bastards on earth but we'll let you join up so that's okay" of the Illuminati ending. Are lots of people going to die? Sure. Lots of people are going to die and live lives of misery in the Illuminati status quo ending, and the Helios ending is basically the end of human freedom and dignity, so gently caress, pick your poison.
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Feb 26, 2011 13:09
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It only works on certain ones. I remember figuring it out the first time I played and then trying it on another one years later without it working. I assumed memories of it working were a fever dream or something.
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Feb 26, 2011 13:31
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Pope Guilty posted:Unless Bob Page has been systematically murdering everyone who understands computers, networking, or poo poo math, Bob Page ith a mathmurderer
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Feb 26, 2011 14:20
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Getting my boyfriend to play Deus Ex for the first time. He's currently on the training level, despite my warning that it's the worst tutorial ever and not indicative of anything in the main game. He managed to chuck a LAM instead of planting it on the wall and badly hurt himself, then instead of going up to a medical bot he instead threw another LAM by accident, blew his legs up and the medical bot. He then went through the "Disarm the LAMs" section while crawling, not before getting yet another LAM to the face. After visiting a medical bot, he's currently struggling through the forced stealth bit which he says is ridiculously hard. I don't remember it being that hard, but still, so bad that it's forced upon you - I mean, the sealth in the game is pretty intuitive it didn't need a section in the tutorial.
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Feb 26, 2011 14:32
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Pope Guilty posted:I have no idea why Tong thinks that destroying the internet means going back to villages. 1950 wasn't exactly the best time to be alive, but it was hardly the Dark Ages. Unless Bob Page has been systematically murdering everyone who understands computers, networking, or poo poo math, the world's going to be just fine, and the net's going to be rebuilt along lines that are less vulnerable to being completely disabled because one facility somewhere blew up. Except you're forgetting that the economy then will be reliant on computers. 1950 wasn't. Without computers you'd still get food in 1950, for example.
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Feb 26, 2011 14:37
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Furret Basket posted:
The stealth section is horrible, yes. drat hard. And everyone has run most of the tutorial without legs, it's one of histories greatest gaming moments. Also, RE: Tong, internet: Every single branch of industry, almost all communication (even phones, except some emergency backup lines) and almost all banking are reliant on the internet now. Add some decades to get to the DX universe, and I bet you can imagine that the removal of internet will pretty much destroy society.
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Feb 26, 2011 15:07
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The stealth section isn't so bad, but it's the kind of thing that's completely out of place in a tutorial because it's so much less forgiving than the actual game. Deus Ex's stealth has a lot of oddities to it and the best way to learn them is by trial and error in the game when you have the opportunity to just shoot guys if you gently caress up.
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Feb 26, 2011 15:13
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I've played through the game about 5 times throughout the years and I've never been able to pass the stealth section in the tutorial without using that stealth suit you can find.
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Feb 26, 2011 16:06
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Pope Guilty posted:I have no idea why Tong thinks that destroying the internet means going back to villages. 1950 wasn't exactly the best time to be alive, but it was hardly the Dark Ages. Unless Bob Page has been systematically murdering everyone who understands computers, networking, or poo poo math, the world's going to be just fine, and the net's going to be rebuilt along lines that are less vulnerable to being completely disabled because one facility somewhere blew up. I know it's a stretch, but it's a major part of the plot that due to Page's scheming everything is extremely dependent on the Aquinas Hub. Destroying it fucks up the entire human civilization for the same reason merging with Helios lets you control the entire human civilization. People wake up the next day and it's like the worst case scenario from the Y2K hysteria (remember that the game came out in 2000), except even worse: no power, no communications, supply lines gone, food shortages in cities, planes crashing, nuclear reactors melting down, digital currency going *poof*, and so on. You wouldn't even be able to prove your identity. Your name, job, bank account, degree? All gone.
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Feb 26, 2011 16:14
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Pope Guilty posted:...and the Helios ending is basically the end of human freedom and dignity... Oh please, as if there was any dignity in the arrangements present prior to Helios/JC's takeover. At least the AI was getting poo poo done like reopening the streets of Hong Kong to traffic.
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Feb 26, 2011 16:23
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Did anyone else besides me feel the Illuminati were really untrustworthy and sketchy as gently caress? I mean what's up with Everett storing that dude in the meat freezer? Helios ending was the best ending.
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Feb 26, 2011 17:32
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Happy Bear Suit posted:Did anyone else besides me feel the Illuminati were really untrustworthy and sketchy as gently caress? I mean what's up with Everett storing that dude in the meat freezer? I'm pretty sure everyone felt that way. That's the fun thing, that every ending has a potential downside. JC basically has to make a snap decision about the entire fate of humanity, and none of them are sunshine and rainbows. EDIT: Except the hidden dance party ending.
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Feb 26, 2011 17:38
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I'm pretty 50/50 on the Helios ending but I still 'prefer' the Illuminati ending over the other two. Mostly because I think Everett has massive respect (and fear) of JC. Here's an augmented agent who pretty much took down MJ-12, took out half of UNATCO, blew up a loving supertanker whilst raiding a U.S. Navy dockyard, brought peace between the Triads, cleared out Area 51 and on and on and on... I imagine he would have second thoughts about loving JC over and he'd be very receptive to whatever JC proposes.
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Feb 26, 2011 17:51
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KillHour posted:It only works on certain ones. I remember figuring it out the first time I played and then trying it on another one years later without it working. I assumed memories of it working were a fever dream or something. I thought the blue ones could be blocked by inanimate objects without triggering the alarm, but the red ones will trigger if blocked by anything.
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Feb 26, 2011 17:53
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poo poo, Everett knows that if he fucks around on JC that reticle is going red before he can say "What a shame."
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Feb 26, 2011 17:55
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BattleMaster posted:I thought the blue ones could be blocked by inanimate objects without triggering the alarm, but the red ones will trigger if blocked by anything. That might be it. Honestly, I don't know.
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Feb 26, 2011 17:55
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Pope Guilty posted:Helios ending is basically the end of human freedom and dignity Helios governing optimally for the benefit of all as man has proven incapable of sounds pretty great.
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Feb 26, 2011 19:04
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Crappy Jack posted:Except the hidden dance party ending. The only true ending.
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Feb 26, 2011 19:04
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quote:Laser tripwire stuff I love it when systems in games are deep enough that things like this can emerge. Bugs that are indistinguishable from features are the best kind.
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Feb 26, 2011 20:13
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Hogburto posted:Perhaps by a standard that would also state that less than a percent of people alive today in the real world have any human freedom and dignity. You're a Heinlein fan, I'm guessing.
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Feb 26, 2011 20:55
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Can't say that I am. Don't ambiguously deflect. We're both here posting about an AI in a sci-fi themed game, so just reiterate your short phrases about how Helios would be bad or at least worse than anything else.
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Feb 26, 2011 21:30
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Come to think of it... the whole Helios thing reminds me of the Morpheous interrogation scene from The Matrix. Obviously not quite like the Matrix but would humans really be able to accept a "perfect, benevolent" ruler?
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Feb 26, 2011 21:50
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XausF1 posted:Come to think of it... the whole Helios thing reminds me of the Morpheous interrogation scene from The Matrix. Obviously not quite like the Matrix but would humans really be able to accept a "perfect, benevolent" ruler? I just like that Helios' thing is that it's a perfect omniscient machine, and it's aware that it needs a human influence. So for that human influence, it picks JC "What a Shame" Denton, paragon of human virtue.
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Feb 26, 2011 21:57
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XausF1 posted:Come to think of it... the whole Helios thing reminds me of the Morpheous interrogation scene from The Matrix. Obviously not quite like the Matrix but would humans really be able to accept a "perfect, benevolent" ruler? I had no trouble accepting the Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ as a perfect, benevolent ruler. Haven't you heard the good word? https://www.readthebible.com I suppose a perfect, benevolent ruler would go to the trouble of making its decisions as psychologically palatable as possible. A really smart one would probably present an illusion of choice just to keep people happy. Helios could rule for however many years it took until people got sick of it, then call an election for humanity's first global president. Surprise surprise, the winning candidate is one JC Denton! quote:I just like that Helios' thing is that it's a perfect omniscient machine, and it's aware that it needs a human influence. So for that human influence, it picks JC "What a Shame" Denton, paragon of human virtue.
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Feb 26, 2011 21:59
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Furret Basket posted:Getting my boyfriend to play Deus Ex for the first time. He's currently on the training level, despite my warning that it's the worst tutorial ever and not indicative of anything in the main game. I played the tutorial from the Deus Ex demo, the stealth section was really horrible, I only beat it by running through the door before the alarm sounded. Then the security bot shot my legs off without killing me, and the game crashed after I crawled into the next area. I never played the game again until now. This time I eventually figured out the confusing movements of the guards enough to sneak through, ad was actually able to avoid the robot.
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Feb 26, 2011 23:19
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You played it right the first time.
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Feb 26, 2011 23:26
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Every single person who plays through the tutorial botches the stealth and has their legs sawn off by the robot.
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Feb 26, 2011 23:33
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Ho Chi Minh Holiday Inn posted:Every single person who plays through the tutorial botches the stealth and has their legs sawn off by the robot. Hey, I had my legs blown off by seeing just how explosive TNT crates were. 
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Feb 26, 2011 23:35
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Now I'm kinda sad Human Revolution won't have an achievement for getting your legs blown off in the tutorial.
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Feb 26, 2011 23:37
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Rascar posted:I've played through the game about 5 times throughout the years and I've never been able to pass the stealth section in the tutorial without using that stealth suit you can find. Yeah, this is the only way I can pass it too. Run straight downstairs, grab the thermoptic camo, get seen, get chewed out by Anna, return to start over; turn on the camo and run through. Incidentally, the way that the stealth systems are explained/displayed in-game bugs me. Thermoptic camo: it's a vest. So I always picture JC's appearance when wearing it as a disembodied head, arms and legs flailing around in midair. Cloak aug: they describe it as electronic pigmentation molecules under JC's skin that basically turn it the same color as his background, like a chameleon. Shouldn't this only work on his skin? What about his clothes? Either JC is running around as a headless set of clothes like the invisible man, or he's naked whenever he has the cloaking on. 
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Feb 27, 2011 00:15
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The thermoptic camo bends light like a star trek cloaking field; I always thought it just projected the field a short bit away from his body. I got nothing on the cloak aug, but that's because I always chose Ballistic Protection and Radar Transparency.
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Feb 27, 2011 00:23
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Post poste posted:Hey, I had my legs blown off by seeing just how explosive TNT crates were. That's how I and most of my friends did it too. Or rather, I chucked a TNT crate not realizing how far JC could throw it, and it landed close enough that it blew my legs clean off.
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Feb 27, 2011 01:44
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Man, you guys were pros to make it that far without being dismembered. I hosed up the LAM disarming (multiple times) and had to crawl to the next medbot. Then lost them again to the bot in the last segment.
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Feb 27, 2011 02:19
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404notfound posted:That's how I and most of my friends did it too. Or rather, I chucked a TNT crate not realizing how far JC could throw it, and it landed close enough that it blew my legs clean off. Exactly what happened to me, I threw it at that robot but I was too close and it took my legs with it. I crawled to that fuckin' secret room 
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Feb 27, 2011 02:24
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orange lime posted:Yeah, this is the only way I can pass it too. Run straight downstairs, grab the thermoptic camo, get seen, get chewed out by Anna, return to start over; turn on the camo and run through. My jacket is augmented.
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Feb 27, 2011 02:27
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XausF1 posted:Come to think of it... the whole Helios thing reminds me of the Morpheous interrogation scene from The Matrix. Obviously not quite like the Matrix but would humans really be able to accept a "perfect, benevolent" ruler? Humans can accept basically anything
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Feb 27, 2011 02:30
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Governments are in themselves a regulation of base human instincts for a collective benefit. Democratic governments such as the United States' hope to achieve social justice by making it so no one person or system can hold absolute power (via the internal checks and balances), and via term limits prevent corrupt or inept regimes from staying in power. Such institutions are supposed to represent the interests of the body as large while at the same time defending itself from internal corruption. Governments are supposed to work because they're machines, they're systems, and no one person or group is supposed to be able to "game" them. In the Helios ending, you're basically fulfilling the ultimate element needed for a truly fair government: the creation of a truly non-partial check on its human leadership. The AIs in Helios have no personal desire, no greediness to fulfill. They merely want to deal out a fair system to the world; they were created to help humanity, and that's what they aim to do. All they lack is a deep understanding of the human condition, of what humans define as being human and thus what is their comfort zone. The capacity for empathy and sympathy. And so they absorb JC Denton. All governmental systems are an attempt to create God, to create a notion of justice on Earth. Even if there's a theological basis to the government itself (as many governments are), it's an attempt to met out a high-minded justice in accordance to a sense of the collective benefit of humanity. So, what does Helios become when it becomes the government? Well, that depends. Let's ignore Invisible War because gently caress it. You can look at the interaction in two ways: Helios becoming government and becoming the political "God" overseeing humanity and maintaining justice, or Helios could become the "God" who judges and looks over the works of man, preserving and maintaining justice in our human government established under his "blessing", as it were. So it's whether Helios becomes Government-as-God, or whether he becomes God-who-watches-the-Government. Does Helios simply become government in and of itself, or does it become the ultimate check on the sins of those who would misuse government?
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Feb 27, 2011 02:58
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I just can't get behind an all-powerful AI who chooses JC Denton as a moral framework. Guy's not exactly known for his sense of sympathy. "Oh, your dad's dead. Man, that blows. Welp, good luck"
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Feb 27, 2011 03:02
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