davidb posted:

oh right, that is something I read in this topic but it slipped my mind since until then I thought it was the more troubled of the population who are doing this.

So even worse, its the people who have more going for them. Who have the means to devote time for

1) getting sucked into the idealogy that makes you want to suicide bomb
2) organize/train

too bad, at least with the poor I can sympathise on some level.

e_angst posted:

Where exactly are you getting your information

davidb posted:

my gut

freebooter posted:

I don't think it's particulaly outrageous to say that Islam, in general, is a harsher and more uncompromising religion than Christianity. Liberals (including myself) have a tendency to stick up for Muslims in Western countries simply because they're a widely disliked minority, but compare nations like Pakistan, Iran, Afghanistan etc. with the West, and, well, it's unfavourable. David is not wrong to be criticising the stonings, beaheadings, beatings and acid throwings which are a daily part of life in these parts of the world.

davidb posted:

oh right, that is something I read in this topic but it slipped my mind since until then I thought it was the more troubled of the population who are doing this.

So even worse, its the people who have more going for them. Who have the means to devote time for

1) getting sucked into the idealogy that makes you want to suicide bomb
2) organize/train

too bad, at least with the poor I can sympathise on some level.

John Cole posted:

When you bomb people and kill their family, friends, and neighbors, burn down their homes and burn down their businesses and kill their livestock, spewing unexploded ordnance and munitions in fields where they work and their children play, it pisses them off. Many of them even get pissed off enough to fight back against the people they think are responsible for the bombing. They probably even form lifelong grudges when they find their mother and children in thousands of bloody pieces in their former homes.

Again, this is not rocket surgery. If they were not sympathetic to the Taliban and Al Qaeda before, after you bomb the poo poo out of them, they will be.

freebooter posted:

I don't think it's particulaly outrageous to say that Islam, in general, is a harsher and more uncompromising religion than Christianity. Liberals (including myself) have a tendency to stick up for Muslims in Western countries simply because they're a widely disliked minority, but compare nations like Pakistan, Iran, Afghanistan etc. with the West, and, well, it's unfavourable. David is not wrong to be criticising the stonings, beheadings, beatings and acid throwings which are a daily part of life in these parts of the world.

edit - I'm not saying Islam is an evil religion populated by woman-hating monsters, I just do think it's generally the strictest and most patriarchal of all the major religions. I find it odd how liberal atheists (which I am, and which I'm sure many other posters in this thread are) will attack Christianity yet defend Islam simply because they perceive it to be the underdog. They both suck.

freebooter posted:

edit - I'm not saying Islam is an evil religion populated by woman-hating monsters, I just do think it's generally the strictest and most patriarchal of all the major religions. I find it odd how liberal atheists (which I am, and which I'm sure many other posters in this thread are) will attack Christianity yet defend Islam simply because they perceive it to be the underdog. They both suck.

quote:

General William Odom, formerly President Reagan's NSA Director, who wrote:
"As many critics have pointed, out, terrorism is not an enemy. It is a tactic. Because the United States itself has a long record of supporting terrorists and using terrorist tactics, the slogans of today's war on terrorism merely makes the United States look hypocritical to the rest of the world.

The 1965-66 anti-Communist purge in Indonesia which was carried out by the Indonesian Army, was assisted by the United States government. The common estimate of the death toll of the anti-Communist purge is 500,000, although higher, more unreliable estimates put the death toll at or above 1,000,000.[23] At the height of the bloodbath, Green assured General Suharto: 'The US is generally sympathetic with and admiring of what the army is doing.'[24] As for the numbers killed, Howard Federspiel, the Indonesia expert at the State Department's Bureau of Intelligence and Research in 1965, said 'No one cared, as long as they were communists, that they were being butchered. No one was getting very worked up about it.'[25]
Senior US diplomats and CIA officials compiled lists of Communist operatives and provided a list of approximately 5,000 names to the Indonesian Army

Also, according to an FBI report, of all terrorist attacks against the United States between 1985 and 2005, only 8% were Islamic in origin. [Has the argument over that been settled yet? Am I allowed to bring that chart up, or is that going to start another bitch-fest about Puerto Rican nationalists and mailboxes?]

quote:

What 'league' is this? Do you think every muslim is a terrorist wifebeater?

Do you not see the difference between critizing a religion and asserting that all adherants of that religion are violent misogynists?

quote:

Have you even considered that there are actually a wide variety of different nations and cultures that are majority-Muslim? For example, the treatment and rights of women (one of the most common anti-Muslim bugaboos) in the nation with the largest number of Muslims, Indonesia, is a lot different than in Saudi Arabia, which is a lot different than it is in Pakistan, and so on

quote:

Also, going back to the police coercion topic (where you were displaying another case of wild ignorance), take the time to watch this -- http://video.pbs.org/video/1637166286

davidb posted:

I believe a higher PERCENTAGE of muslims are compared to other cultures/religions

davidb posted:

I have EXPERIENCED unpleasant muslims

davidb posted:

I have been EXPOSED to frequent rhetoric about muslims

quote:

What is this based on? Rather than your gut feelings?

quote:

There are unpleasant people in every culture or society. Sounds like you're experiencing this.

quote:

Why do you think you have been exposed to more anti-Muslim rhetoric than say, anti-Christian rhetoric? Could it be that the media is a right-wing mouthpiece that wants its viewers to support invasions of other countries and the 'war' on terror? And also because you live in a predominantly Christian country which has increasingly polarised views on nationalism and religion?

davidb posted:

I think it would be nice to hear about muslims trying to feed the poor in Africa. Or something like that. Something to make them seem more humane

davidb posted:

thank you. Are there any others, possibly some from the middle east? Westernized muslims are decent folk. Its the acid throwing region Im troubled by.

Hell, I cant understand the language. But If there was a news station that was for Arabs like Al jazeera(spelling?) Id watch it. Im sure they show good will stuff like we do here in the US. where some arab fireman was trying to save a drowning dog or something along those lines.

davidb posted:

thank you. Are there any others, possibly some from the middle east? Westernized muslims are decent folk. Its the acid throwing region Im troubled by.

Hell, I cant understand the language. But If there was a news station that was for Arabs like Al jazeera(spelling?) Id watch it. Im sure they show good will stuff like we do here in the US. where some arab fireman was trying to save a drowning dog or something along those lines.

Dr. Arbitrary posted:

Looking at Al Jazeera's website makes CNN look so crappy, I can't even find any advertisement!

davidb posted:

crime fighting hog posted:

So here's this:

From 2002 posted:

YES, I'M A BAD AMERICAN

by George Carlin


I Am Your Worst Nightmare. I am a BAD American. I am George Carlin.

I believe the money I make belongs to me and my family, not some mid
level governmental functionary be it Democratic or
Republican!

I'm in touch with my feelings and I like it that way, drat it!

I think owning a gun doesn't make you a killer, it makes you a smart
American.

I think being a minority does not make you noble or victimized, and
does
not entitle you to anything.

I believe that if you are selling me a Big Mac, try to do it in
English.

I think fireworks should be legal on the 4th of July.

I think that being a student doesn't give you any more enlightenment
than working at Blockbuster. In fact, if your parents are
footing the bill to put your pansy rear end through 4 years plus, of
college,
you haven't begun to be enlightened.

I believe everyone has a right to pray to his or her God when and
where
they want to.

My heroes are John Wayne, Babe Ruth, Roy Rogers, and whoever canceled
Jerry Springer.

I don't hate the rich. I don't pity the poor.

I know wrestling is fake and I don't waste my time arguing about it.

I think global warming is a big lie. Where are all those experts now,
when I'm freezing my rear end off during these long winters and
paying, paying, paying?

I've never owned a slave, or was a slave, I didn't wander forty years
In
the desert after getting chased out of Egypt. I haven't
burned any witches or been persecuted by the Turks and neither have
you!
So, shut-the-Hell-up already.

I want to know which church is it exactly where the Reverend Jesse
Jackson practices, where he gets his money, and why he
is always part of the problem and not the solution. Can I get an AMEN
on
that one?

I think the cops have every right to shoot your sorry rear end if you're
running from them.

I also think they have the right to pull your rear end over if you're
breaking the law, regardless of what color you are.

I think if you are too stupid to know how a ballot works, I don't want
you deciding who should be running the most powerful
nation in the world for the next four years.

I dislike those people standing in the intersections trying to sell me
crap or trying to guilt me into making "donations" to their
cause. These people should be targets.

I believe that it doesn't take a village to raise a child, it takes
two
parents.

I believe if she has her lips on your Willie, it's sex, and this
applies
even if you are President of the United States.

And what the hell is going on with gas prices... again?

If this makes me a BAD American, then yes, I'm a BAD American.

If you are a BAD American too, please forward this to everyone you
know.

We need our country back!

King Ramses posted:

I'm cheating on this one. I didn't receive this email, I found it while having to dig through a stack of backup floppies.

XyloJW posted:

God bless Snopes. http://www.snopes.com/politics/soapbox/carlin.asp I know Carlin can be pretty "gently caress you" towards any position but still. "Can I get an AMEN to that?"

King Ramses posted:

I'm cheating on this one. I didn't receive this email, I found it while having to dig through a stack of backup floppies.

quote:

I'm in touch with my feelings and I like it that way, drat it!

unitedwithisrael.org posted:

Many festive words had been written and uttered this past month in respect to “democracy” and “popular uprisings.” We were told about the downfall of Middle Eastern tyrants as if this is the 1989 Eastern Europe. A more realistic view may seek new democracies yet discover anarchy, death, aggressive rulers and radical political Islam waiting to take over.

A hypocrite posted:

I think people forget a key concept of a democracy is the will of the people, but when the will of the majority is anti-US...democracy is not necessarily a good thing.

ought ten posted:

gently caress you, got [my democracy]. That jackass is/was border patrol agent, too.

13Pandora13 posted:

Living next door to your grandparents...sometimes less than great.

Blarghalt posted:

I've recently been hearing a phrase that gets tossed around a lot between arch-conservatives that the US isn't a democracy, it's a republic.

Disregarding everything that's wrong with that statement, it's kind of telling in a very disturbing way what many right wing people in this country actually think of popular government.

quote:

Friends, would you believe that Lee Iacocca is 82 years old and is still kickin’ butt? Check out his latest rant.

Just as true today as it was when his book first came out.

He was, and still is, a brilliant businessman!

Often we need to be reminded of Iacocca's words.


Remember Lee Iacocca, the man who rescued Chrysler Corporation from its death throes? He's now 82 years old and has a new book, 'Where Have All The Leaders Gone?'.

Lee Iacocca Says:
'Am I the only guy in this country who's fed up with what's happening? Where the hell is our outrage with this so called president? We should be screaming bloody murder! We've got a gang of tax cheating clueless leftists trying to steer our ship of state right over a cliff, we've got corporate gangsters stealing us blind, and we can't even run a ridiculous cash-for-clunkers program without losing $26 billion of the taxpayers' money, much less build a hybrid car. But instead of getting mad, everyone sits around and nods their heads when the politicians say, 'trust me, the economy is getting better..' Better? You've got to be kidding. This is America , not the damned 'Titanic'. I'll give you a sound bite: 'Throw all the Democrats out, along with Obama!'

You might think I'm getting senile, that I've gone off my rocker, and maybe I have. But someone has to speak up. I hardly recognize this country anymore..

The most famous business leaders are not the innovators but the guys in handcuffs.. While we're fiddling in Afghanistan , Iran is completing their nuclear bombs and missiles and nobody seems to know what to do. And the liberal press is waving 'pom-poms' instead of asking hard questions. That's not the promise of the ' America ' my parents and yours traveled across the ocean for. I've had enough. How about you?

I'll go a step further. You can't call yourself a patriot if you're not outraged. This is a fight I'm ready and willing to have. The Biggest 'C' is Crisis! (Iacocca elaborates on nine C's of leadership, with crisis being the first.)

Leaders are made, not born. Leadership is forged in times of crisis. It's easy to sit there with thumb up your butt and talk theory. Or send someone else's kids off to war when you've never seen a battlefield yourself. It's another thing to lead when your world comes tumbling down.

On September 11, 2001, we needed a strong leader more than any other time in our history. We needed a steady hand to guide us out of the ashes. A hell of a mess, so here's where we stand.

We're immersed in a bloody war now with no plan for winning and no plan for leaving.. But our soldiers are dying daily.

We're running the biggest deficit in the history of the world, and it's getting worse every day!

We've lost the manufacturing edge to Asia , while our once-great companies are getting slaughtered by health care costs.

Gas prices are going to skyrock again, and nobody in power has a lucid plan to open drilling to solve the problem. This country has the largest oil reserves in the WORLD, and we cannot drill for it because the politicians have been bought by the flea-hugging environmentalists.

Our schools are in a complete disaster because of the teachers' union.

Our borders are like sieves and they want to give all illegal's amnesty and free healthcare.

The middle class is being squeezed to death every day.

These are times that cry out for leadership.

But when you look around, you've got to ask: 'Where have all the leaders gone?' Where are the curious, creative communicators? Where are the people of character, courage, conviction, omnipotence, and common sense? I may be a sucker for alliteration, but I think you get the point..

Name me a leader who has a better idea for homeland security than making us take off our shoes in airports and throw away our shampoo?

We've spent billions of dollars building a huge new bureaucracy, and all we know how to do is react to things that have already happened.

Everyone's hunkering down, fingers crossed, hoping the government will make it better for them. Now, that's just crazy.. Deal with life.

Name me an industry leader who is thinking creatively about how we can restore our competitive edge in manufacturing. Who would have believed that there could ever be a time when 'The Big Three' referred to Japanese car companies? How did this happen, and more important, look what Obama did about it!

Name me a government leader who can articulate a plan for paying down the debt, or solving the energy crisis, or managing the health care problem. The silence is deafening. But these are the crises that are eating away at our country and milking the middle class dry.

I have news for the Chicago gangsters in Congress. We didn't elect you to turn this country into a losing European Socialist state. What is everybody so afraid of? That some bonehead on NBC or CNN news will call them a name? Give me a break. Why don't you guys show some spine for a change?

Had Enough? Hey, I'm not trying to be the voice of gloom and doom here. I'm trying to light a fire. I'm speaking out because I have hope - I believe in America .. In my lifetime, I've had the privilege of living through some of America 's greatest moments. I've also experienced some of our worst crises: The 'Great Depression,' 'World War II,' the 'Korean War,' the 'Kennedy Assassination,' the 'Vietnam War,' the 1970's oil crisis, and the struggles of recent years since 9/11.

Make your own contribution by sending this to everyone you know and care about. It's our country, folks, and it's our future. Our future is at stake!!

Bobby Digital posted:

This one is doing the rounds again.
Where are the people of character, courage, conviction, omnipotence, and common sense? I may be a sucker for alliteration, but I think you get the point..

Bobby Digital posted:

This one is doing the rounds again.

quote:

This country has the largest oil reserves in the WORLD, and we cannot drill for it because the politicians have been bought by the flea-hugging environmentalists.

Blarghalt posted:

Is a straight-up lie.

the posted:

All of those negatives accurately describe the Bush administration and most Republicans.

quote:

On September 11, 2001, we needed a strong leader more than any other time in our history. We needed a steady hand to guide us out of the ashes. A hell of a mess, so here's where we stand.

quote:

In 1997, 400 African-American farmers sued the United States Department of Agriculture, alleging that they had been unfairly denied USDA loans due to racial discrimination during the period 1983 to 1997.

The case was entitled "Pigford vs. Glickman" and in 1999, the black farmers won their case.

The government agreed to pay each of them as much as $50,000 to settle their claims.

But then on February 23, 2010, something shocking happened in relation to that original judgment: In total silence, the USDA agreed to release more funds to "Pigford".

The amount was a staggering...... $1.25 billion. This was because the original number of plaintiffs - 400 black farmers had now swollen, in a class action suit, to include a total of 86,000 black farmers throughout America.


There was only one teensy problem:

The United States of America doesn't have 86,000 black farmers!!!!

According to accurate and totally verifiable Official USDA 2007 Census census data, the total number of black farmers throughout America is only 39,697.

Hmmm... by the Official USDA 1992 Census data the US had only 18,816 black farmers!! Oops!!

Well, gosh - how on earth did 39,697 explode into the fraudulent 86,000 claims??

And how did $50,000 explode into $1.25 billion??

Well, folks, you'll just have to ask the woman who not only spearheaded this case because of her position in 1997 at the "Rural Development Leadership Network", but whose family received the highest single payout (approximately $13 million) from that action - Shirley Sherrod. Oops again!!


Yes, folks it appears that Ms. Sherrod had just unwittingly exposed herself as the perpetrator of one of the biggest fraud claims in the history of the United States; a fraud enabled solely because she screamed racism at the government and cowed them into submission.

And it gets even more interesting... Ms. Sherrod has also exposed the person who aided and abetted her in this race fraud.

As it turns out, the original judgment of "Pigford vs. Glickman" in 1999 only applied to a total of about 16,000 black farmers.
But....in 2008, a junior US Senator got a law passed to reopen the case and allow more black farmers to sue for funds.

The Senator was Barack Hussein Obama..

Because this law was passed in dead silence, and because the woman responsible for spearheading it was an obscure USDA official, American taxpayers did not realize that they had just been forced in the midst of a worldwide recession to pay out more than $1.25 billion to settle a race claim.

quote:

This country has the largest oil reserves in the WORLD, and we cannot drill for it because the politicians have been bought by the flea-hugging environmentalists.

CDOR Gemini posted:

I want to know where the environmentalists got all this money.