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Goddamn, what a loving idiot. I love how his indictment of the Malazan books is based on ONE user comment from somewhere (he neglects to mention where).
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# ? Feb 14, 2011 09:55 |
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# ? May 11, 2024 09:47 |
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John Charity Spring posted:I've not read it but one of my friends - whose opinion on books I trust completely, and hasn't steered me wrong yet - read it due to all the praise it was getting and completely loathed it. Said it was one of the worst-written books he'd read, bankrupt of any virtues. I liked Heroes die, but I think the other 2 books (The blade of Tyshalle & Caine Black Knife) were better. It's bloody, fun and interesting enough to keep me waiting for the next book.
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# ? Feb 14, 2011 11:49 |
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It seems this dude has a huge hard-on for what he calls True Myth.quote:my guess is that you read fantasy not for the prose poetry or the air of myth, but for the soap opera element so common in virtually all writing in all genres today. You want lots of characters all filled to the brim with Oprah/Dr. Phil emotional drama, along with lots of modern dis-concordant jokes and dialogue, and enough twists and turns in the plot to keep you guessing as what's going to happen next on "Days of Our Lives." So... plot, characters, and conflict are bad? Dude just wants to read ancient purple 'prose poetry'. Also, themes of the futility of civilization in the face of barbarism sounds pretty negative to me.
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# ? Feb 14, 2011 23:11 |
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anathenema posted:The comments section is a rabbit hole of conservative extremist wank resembling an overlong rant from a crotchety old man, going from "kids these days" to "women tryin' to take away my freedom." I just started reading The Blade Itself yesterday, and I just got to the part 80-odd pages in where Arch Lector Sult and Glotka, who are currently the most evil morally bankrupt bastards in the book are discussing their preferential replacement for the dead member of The Closed Council. They remark about their intended choice being a "good conservative", which in that context seemed to mean willing to be an evil lawless fascist with a hatred of common people.. The usage of the word Conservative makes sense in the context of the book's universe, but I remember thinking when I read it that a large number of modern-day Conservatives probably took it at as a direct attack on them and decided to hate the book from that moment onwards simply for likening them to an ugly toothless cripple rather than the mental image they have of themselves as a dashingly handsome bare-chested conservative hero.
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# ? Feb 15, 2011 10:32 |
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Joe has posted a lengthy rejoinder on his blog. A choice extract:quote:If you feel your mind and culture might collapse under the weight of a surprising ending involving an unpleasant wizard, a rubbish king and a couple of swear words, it seems to me you really need to dig them some deeper foundations.
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# ? Feb 15, 2011 15:53 |
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Just read that and commented...Great rebuttal.
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# ? Feb 15, 2011 20:30 |
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Bizob posted:The simple fact that "Heros Die" is cited along with the First Law and Malazan in that article is almost enough to get me to overcome the shame that would come with buying something with that awful cover. Can anyone tell me if its any good? The currently sold version has a slightly better cover. Still a bad painting, but better design: http://www.amazon.com/Heroes-Die-Matthew-Woodring-Stover/dp/0345421450 I quite liked Heroes Die, and also like Mieville, Abercrombie, GRRM, Lynch, Rothfuss (goonhate notwithstanding), etc. It's different than those books -- much more obviously the product of a particular personality, for one. It's a bit over the top: Stover's personal writing motto is "I Swear by the Power of All Dark Gods that I Will Write Every loving Word Balls-Out for Glory." But it's not *bad* writing - as far as writing every loving word etc etc goes, I think it's about as good as it gets. Great fight scenes (Stover's a pretty good martial artist), actual surprises, actual themes (among them, Stover says "It's a piece of violent entertainment that's a meditation on violent entertainment"), and so on. Certainly not as inventive as Mieville, and earlier in the "gritty" "revolution" than Abercrombie (and therefore, perhaps, a bit less careful about the way he does "grit"), but this is basically stuff you won't find anywhere else. And, I mean, I don't know if Abercrombie's read him, but doesn't "Heroes Die" sound like the title Abercrombie's book might have had if Stover hadn't gotten there first? If you like Scott Lynch, Lynch has acknowledged a very deep debt to Stover. Oh, and John Scalzi loves his books, too: http://whatever.scalzi.com/2008/10/14/tgbstover/. In any event, I really wish Stover sold better, because I would like to read more Overworld books. Blade of Tyshalle was a bit baggy for me (though it had some great parts), but Caine Black Knife was a pure shot of angry energy with some depth to it.
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# ? Feb 17, 2011 18:27 |
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I made "Best Served Cold" as my return to Fantasy after a year of reading other genres. Feels good to read a totally awesome, unapologetic Fantasy book again that actually has some awesome prose and characters that are interesting. I probably should have waited until The Wise Man's Fear, because now I have a suspecting feeling that as soon as I am done I will order The Heroes...and then I will have two books to read at the same time and I always get distracted and forget what the heck is going on when I do that.
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# ? Feb 18, 2011 02:08 |
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How does everyone feel about Abercrombie's fellow nihilist/corruptor of fantasy Richard K. Morgan? I ask because it looks like Morgan is almost done with the sequel to the Steel Remains and just posted a new sample chapter on his blog. It is... gross.
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# ? Feb 18, 2011 16:24 |
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Bizob posted:How does everyone feel about Abercrombie's fellow nihilist/corruptor of fantasy Richard K. Morgan? I ask because it looks like Morgan is almost done with the sequel to the Steel Remains and just posted a new sample chapter on his blog. It is... gross. Morgan's always had a bit of an odd focus on torture and practically all his books have a couple of nasty scenes. I remember the torture machine in the Kovac's series where it would literally strip your flesh/nerves down bit by bit while keeping you alive, and it's hard to forget hot poker penetration.
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# ? Feb 19, 2011 03:00 |
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Where were all the Shanka? I kept expecting them to show up at some point.
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# ? Feb 19, 2011 07:54 |
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KillRoy posted:Where were all the Shanka? I kept expecting them to show up at some point. Far to the north, while the battle was very much in the south of the Northlands. Not much reason for them to show up just yet, although I'm sure we will see them again in a later book.
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# ? Feb 19, 2011 08:51 |
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I was disappointed we saw so little of the Dogman in this one. It was odd for such a major protagonist from the past to just wander in briefly at the end.
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# ? Feb 19, 2011 19:45 |
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Grand Prize Winner posted:And I feel sorry for Craw. I hoped he'd quit for realsies I thought his ending was paired perfectly with Beck's for a great contrast. The only way to get out of the violent life is to stop before you start.
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# ? Feb 20, 2011 13:00 |
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keiran_helcyan posted:I was disappointed we saw so little of the Dogman in this one. It was odd for such a major protagonist from the past to just wander in briefly at the end. That seems to be the MO for these standalone books though. Cosca, Shivers and Eider were all minor players in the original trilogy. Not to mention cameos by Jezal, Gorst, and mentions of the Cripple. I wonder who the next book will involve? Hopefully Shekt. He's great. I always thought TerezJezal's queen, daughter or Duke Orso would be a great POV character. She'd have a great insight on Adua as well as Talins, and every chapter might bring in Glokta
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# ? Feb 21, 2011 00:49 |
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KillRoy posted:might bring in Glokta Anything that will bring more Glokta, he is one of my favorite characters in any book now and I just want to see more from his PoV. I just finished The Heroes and my only complaint is now I have nothing to read. I feel Abercrombie has ruined fantasy for me since nothing else seems as good. I need more hosed up flawed characters.
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# ? Feb 22, 2011 23:24 |
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Whirrun's loving cheese-trap. This guy is alright.
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# ? Feb 23, 2011 08:26 |
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I don't know why it was Whirrun's destiny that did it for me, but his death really rammed home how pointless and senseless it all is more than any other characters' for me. Also where are you getting the idea that the Father-of-Swords is one of the Maker's blades?
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# ? Feb 23, 2011 13:37 |
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Yadoppsi posted:I don't know why it was Whirrun's destiny that did it for me, but his death really rammed home how pointless and senseless it all is more than any other characters' for me. They mention a mark on the blade just above the hilt just like Logen's sword had.
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# ? Feb 23, 2011 14:52 |
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Yadoppsi posted:Also where are you getting the idea that the Father-of-Swords is one of the Maker's blades? A very big, impossibly sharp sword made of dull grey metal with a silver letter stamped at the hilt. Am I talking about Logen's blade or Whirrun's? The description fits both.
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# ? Feb 23, 2011 21:37 |
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Finree is pretty rad too. There's something about a power hungry, sociopathic officer's wife that just works.
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# ? Feb 23, 2011 22:39 |
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I'm not far in but I'm already seeing how Abercrombie copy/pasted Gettysburg into his world for The Heroes. Not necessarily a bad thing but boy is it transparent.
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# ? Feb 23, 2011 23:07 |
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Not really? The battle is pretty much a composite of Hastings, Waterloo, Arnhem, and any number of other famous battles. With a bunch of other stuff added in too.
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# ? Feb 24, 2011 02:26 |
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I got a big Hastings feel myself, what with an elevated shieldwall holding against a technologically superior foe. I suppose it comes down to where you were brought up, these kinds of battles have been fought throughout all history. Absolutely cracking read by the way, Abercrombie's one of the few authors I get the hardbacks for, just don't want to wait on anything that good.
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# ? Feb 24, 2011 04:13 |
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Smoky Bandana posted:Absolutely cracking read by the way, Abercrombie's one of the few authors I get the hardbacks for, just don't want to wait on anything that good. I read that as "Abercrombie's one of the few authors I get the hardons for" and I didn't really think to confirm what I read. I, too, get the hardons for Abercrombie's work. vvv I don't remember that either, but I'm only about 47% through the book. Bummey fucked around with this message at 20:36 on Feb 24, 2011 |
# ? Feb 24, 2011 04:17 |
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Clinton1011 posted:They mention a mark on the blade just above the hilt just like Logen's sword had. I must have missed that then. I don't remember reading about any mark.
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# ? Feb 24, 2011 08:01 |
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its when gorst is sizing up wirrun and describes the father of swords kinda snuck in there.
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# ? Feb 25, 2011 20:20 |
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Yadoppsi posted:I must have missed that then. I don't remember reading about any mark. I remember reading it, but for some reason I had forgotten all about Kanedias, so it didn't make any sense to me at the time either.
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# ? Feb 25, 2011 21:12 |
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Black Dow reminds me a lot of Al Swearengen in The Heroes. I'm just waiting for him to call someone a cocksucker.
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# ? Feb 28, 2011 11:15 |
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Pretty sure I do remember him calling someone a cocksucker at some point.
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# ? Feb 28, 2011 17:34 |
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I finished The Heroes the other night. Very good on the whole, would put it over Best Served Cold and near the trilogy. There were a few loose plot threads here and there but those may have been intentional. One thing that did bug me (fairly big ending spoiler) The whole bit with Calder and ha! ha! Bayaz runs everything (AGAIN) bit was a bit lame. Bayaz' influence is getting a bit ridiculous if half the warriors on the Northern side answer to him. It also makes the point of the war a lot less clear. Also it doesn't really address Ishri and the whole larger conflict But it didn't ruin the book really. Bremer van Gorst is still a badass motherfucker.
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# ? Mar 2, 2011 19:06 |
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silly posted:One thing that did bug me (fairly big ending spoiler) The whole bit with Calder and ha! ha! Bayaz runs everything (AGAIN) bit was a bit lame. Bayaz' influence is getting a bit ridiculous if half the warriors on the Northern side answer to him. It also makes the point of the war a lot less clear. Also it doesn't really address Ishri and the whole larger conflict As others have speculated, everything in these books seems to be building up to a major war between Bayaz and Kanedias. Maybe now that Bayaz has control over Calder, the Union and the North will be forced to become allies against the South in the next book or in the upcoming trilogy.
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# ? Mar 2, 2011 19:18 |
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Daveski posted:As others have speculated, everything in these books seems to be building up to a major war between Bayaz and Kanedias. Maybe now that Bayaz has control over Calder, the Union and the North will be forced to become allies against the South in the next book or in the upcoming trilogy. I get that everything is building toward a climactic showdown. But hell Bayaz could have just done this same trick on Black Dow. Or hell had Bethod killed and replaced. Bringing in the whole deus ex machina again kind of weakens the overall plot structure if you ask me.
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# ? Mar 2, 2011 19:48 |
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Joe (we are on first name basis) has a new post up on his blog, concerning material for his next novel. I cannot wait. http://www.joeabercrombie.com/news/
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# ? Mar 3, 2011 00:55 |
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silly posted:I get that everything is building toward a climactic showdown. But hell Bayaz could have just done this same trick on Black Dow. Or hell had Bethod killed and replaced. Bringing in the whole deus ex machina again kind of weakens the overall plot structure if you ask me. Calder is a better puppet than Black Dow. The north is now set up like the Union was at the end of the 3rd book. Scale is the figurehead king that people will follow, Calder is the actual power behind him, and Bayaz controls Calder. Just how Bayaz controls Sand, while Sand controls Jezal.
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# ? Mar 3, 2011 01:33 |
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Hughmoris posted:Joe (we are on first name basis) has a new post up on his blog, concerning material for his next novel. I cannot wait. The New Adventures of Nicomo Cogburn.
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# ? Mar 3, 2011 05:03 |
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Audio book for The Heroes is out, read by Michael Page (the guy who read Best Served Cold). audio sample below cover art http://www.audible.com/pd/ref=sr_1_5?asin=B004N1OHD8&qid=1299131327&sr=1-5
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# ? Mar 3, 2011 06:50 |
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no pantsu posted:Audio book for The Heroes is out, read by Michael Page (the guy who read Best Served Cold). audio sample below cover art Gross, it almost sounds like a synthesized voice. That voice from those stupid videos that are all over the place now. edit: This poo poo. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CGgVY6Ref4I Audio books are for retarded people. Bummey fucked around with this message at 07:22 on Mar 3, 2011 |
# ? Mar 3, 2011 07:18 |
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Bummey posted:Gross, it almost sounds like a synthesized voice. That voice from those stupid videos that are all over the place now. Hahaha, that's spot on. Really interested in finding out what Abercrombie is going to do with a Western theme in this fantasy universe. It doesn't seem to be the best fit, at first sight.
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# ? Mar 3, 2011 10:09 |
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# ? May 11, 2024 09:47 |
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John Charity Spring posted:Really interested in finding out what Abercrombie is going to do with a Western theme in this fantasy universe. It doesn't seem to be the best fit, at first sight. I give not a gently caress; I trust it will be awesome.
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# ? Mar 3, 2011 10:39 |