A Song of Ice and Fire - Spoiler-Free Book Discussion

The Something Awful Forums > The Finer Arts > The Book Barn > A Song of Ice and Fire - Spoiler-Free Book Discussion

Yeah I read books.: Feb 28, 2006; uhh yeah dude

scr0llwheel posted:

I just finished A Storm of Swords. Last chapter: "Who the hell is this guy and why do I ca-- HOLY poo poo OH MY GOD"

I'll post more detailed thoughts tomorrow. Amazing series.

Yeah it took a minute for that to actually sink in and click for me, as in me completely understanding it, and when I did it was so good.

I really wish I could read this series over again from the start without knowing anything. Maybe when book 7 gets released( :smugbert:

)I'll sustain a massive head injury and get to read all of them while recovering.

Just kidding but they're almost as good to re-read.

# ? Jan 19, 2011 08:32

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# ? Jun 11, 2024 08:29

Zombie Lincoln: Sep 7, 2006; The master of all things GRRM!

"His manhood glistened wetly..."

Yeah I read books. posted:

Yeah it took a minute for that to actually sink in and click for me, as in me completely understanding it, and when I did it was so good.

I really wish I could read this series over again from the start without knowing anything. Maybe when book 7 gets released( )I'll sustain a massive head injury and get to read all of them while recovering.

Just kidding but they're almost as good to re-read.

At least one re-read is warranted. If only because you pick up on stuff immediately as you read it that you might have breezed by the first time.

# ? Jan 19, 2011 08:39

scr0llwheel: Sep 11, 2004; ohelo

Through A Storm of Swords, I'm enjoying these books more than the Harry Potter series. Don't laugh.

The plot is deep, the world is detailed, and the backstory is so complicated it boggles my mind that GRRM was able to create it so flawlessly. The POV-style chapters are very interesting and add a new dynamic to the series. Do many other books use this same structure? After many thousands of pages, it's still feels new and is exciting to read.

So, onto some ASoS thoughts and questions:

- I'm always interested in how the books were conceived, written, and actively developed over the years. I've briefly read that the series was originally created as a trilogy, later expanded to four books, and then seven while A Feast for Crows was written and re-written. Can anyone expand on this? It's especially obvious with Rickon's age and him effectively vanishing in ASoS. Has GRRM talked about how he created the series and backstory? Is everything already planned out?

- Dany's chapters were awesome, answered a few questions from the earlier books, and followed her transformation into a proper queen. I'm really looking forward to her dragons fully grown.

- Stannis, oh Stannis. He is both awesome and frustrating. His plan to legitimize Jon and restore him as Lord of Winterfell was genius and I was actually grinning when I read that. It would have been awesome to see Jon back at Winterfell until I realized that would be boring and Jon as Lord Commander is a lot better. I hope Stannis continues to listen to Davos although the idea of raising a dragon isn't half bad...

- Sansa is hosed. Literally. Her final chapter in ASoS was awesome for the reader (snow-castle of Winterfell is going to be great on the HBO series) and terrifying for her.

- The Lannisters should have their own Real Highborns of the Seven Kingdoms series. Whilethe series is primarily a narrative focused on the Starks, the Lannisters are a very close second. Furthermore, I see Cercei gets some POVs in AFfC which should be quite illuminating.

I could go on and on and on but I'm preaching to the choir. I'll just get back to starting AFfC.

Would anyone be interested in me doing a first-time-reader readalong to AFfC? We skipped ASoS which is a great loss to future readers of the thread but it might otherwise die.

# ? Jan 24, 2011 17:25

Zombie Lincoln: Sep 7, 2006; The master of all things GRRM!

"His manhood glistened wetly..."

scr0llwheel posted:

Through A Storm of Swords, I'm enjoying these books more than the Harry Potter series. Don't laugh.

The plot is deep, the world is detailed, and the backstory is so complicated it boggles my mind that GRRM was able to create it so flawlessly. The POV-style chapters are very interesting and add a new dynamic to the series. Do many other books use this same structure? After many thousands of pages, it's still feels new and is exciting to read.

So, onto some ASoS thoughts and questions:

- I'm always interested in how the books were conceived, written, and actively developed over the years. I've briefly read that the series was originally created as a trilogy, later expanded to four books, and then seven while A Feast for Crows was written and re-written. Can anyone expand on this? It's especially obvious with Rickon's age and him effectively vanishing in ASoS. Has GRRM talked about how he created the series and backstory? Is everything already planned out?

- Dany's chapters were awesome, answered a few questions from the earlier books, and followed her transformation into a proper queen. I'm really looking forward to her dragons fully grown.

- Stannis, oh Stannis. He is both awesome and frustrating. His plan to legitimize Jon and restore him as Lord of Winterfell was genius and I was actually grinning when I read that. It would have been awesome to see Jon back at Winterfell until I realized that would be boring and Jon as Lord Commander is a lot better. I hope Stannis continues to listen to Davos although the idea of raising a dragon isn't half bad...

- Sansa is hosed. Literally. Her final chapter in ASoS was awesome for the reader (snow-castle of Winterfell is going to be great on the HBO series) and terrifying for her.

- The Lannisters should have their own Real Highborns of the Seven Kingdoms series. Whilethe series is primarily a narrative focused on the Starks, the Lannisters are a very close second. Furthermore, I see Cercei gets some POVs in AFfC which should be quite illuminating.

I could go on and on and on but I'm preaching to the choir. I'll just get back to starting AFfC.

Would anyone be interested in me doing a first-time-reader readalong to AFfC? We skipped ASoS which is a great loss to future readers of the thread but it might otherwise die.

There are a few notes here and there on the how's and why's of GRRM's ASoIaF creation. After you wrap up AFfC, check out the "Thus Spoke Martin" section of https://www.westeros.org where they keep a log of his correspondence with fans. A couple notes that may be of interest:

He started the series by writing a single scene, not having any idea of what would spring forth from there: finding the direwolf pups.
Actual medieval history was a large inspiration for GRRM. In particular, the War of the Roses. There is no 1 to 1 correlation, though.
The series was indeed originally a trilogy, but GRRM is a self described gardener, rather than an architect. He had ideas for the beginning, middle, and end, but the story grew in the telling.
Following A Storm of Swords, GRRM originally planned for a five year gap. The young would age a bit, the dragons would grow some, and some details could be glossed over to get to the action. However, while writing the fourth book, GRRM found he was over utilizing flashbacks to fill in some of the happenings. Wishing to avoid this, yet recognizing the importance of the information, he opted to scrap his initial idea, and fill in the events that would have occurred during those five years.
This led to a large number of manuscript pages -- too many to actually publish as one book. Not wanting to have a book without a wholly contained arc, he decided to isolate what was now A Feast for Crows into POV's only dealing with certain storylines and locations, saving the other POV's running through the same time period for an additional book. This created further rewrites in Feast, and complicated the telling of the existing material for A Dance with Dragons.
GRRM thought Dance would be wrapped up relatively quickly, but it turns out he had to rethink the existing material, since the time lines overlap so much, and information that might have once been a surprise would be no longer. (Fun fact, Cersei's chapters in Feast were originally written to juxtapose Dany's chapters, showing two different takes on "queening"). GRRM is also distracted a lot, and slow.

A Feast for Crows tends to split the fan base, in terms of liking it or not. Part of the reason is the absence of some favorite POV's: Jon, Dany, Tyrion. Part of that is the introduction of new characters with POV chapters. While this gives us action in the Iron Islands, and in Dorne, fans are split on if exploring these storylines is a worthwhile effort, bloat, or distractions from the main storylines. This doesn't go for all new POVs, as most would agree, Jaime's are definitely worthwhile, and Cersei's provide an interesting glimpse into her mindset, along with some interesting past events that helped to mold her.

I think a large reason for some of the... drag, is that the chapters are roughly twice as long in Feast than in other books. Where the other books usually left you wanting more as you reached the end of a POV, these may overstay your interest from time to time.

Anyway, by all means, take point in the discussion on Feast if you like. Been meaning to ask a mod if they could change the title of this thread to "A Song of Ice and Fire - No Spoilers Discussion", or something like that, but I'm lazy.

# ? Jan 24, 2011 19:07

scr0llwheel: Sep 11, 2004; ohelo

Awesome overview. I'll love reading "Thus Spoke Martin" once I finish AFfC.

I'd love to lead the AFfC discussion/overview. Can someone divide the chapters into logical groups (especially if some chapters are related to the same event) based on the chapter numbers from here. I'll post chapter reviews/thoughts/questions once I finish with the group. I'll probably get through it quickly but I don't want to promise updates every X days and then not deliver.

# ? Jan 25, 2011 05:00

Yodzilla: Apr 29, 2005; Now who looks even dumber?

Beef Witch

scr0llwheel posted:

I just finished A Storm of Swords. Last chapter: "Who the hell is this guy and why do I ca-- HOLY poo poo OH MY GOD"

I'll post more detailed thoughts tomorrow. Amazing series.

Having just gotten some more reading time with A Storm of Swords down in the Caribbean I had that same reaction after Frey's murder party and subsequent Arya chapter.

200 pages left, I can't wait to plow through it.

# ? Jan 25, 2011 17:17

Jolo: Jun 4, 2007; ive been playing with magnuts tying to change the wold as we know it

scr0llwheel posted:

Awesome overview. I'll love reading "Thus Spoke Martin" once I finish AFfC.

I'd love to lead the AFfC discussion/overview. Can someone divide the chapters into logical groups (especially if some chapters are related to the same event) based on the chapter numbers from here. I'll post chapter reviews/thoughts/questions once I finish with the group. I'll probably get through it quickly but I don't want to promise updates every X days and then not deliver.

I'd totally support a readalong to a AFfC. I just finished A Storm of Swords last night, and it'd be really interesting to hear other people's thoughts as they make their way through the fourth book for the first time also. It might not be a bad idea to start a new thread to gather some new eyes, or to have the title of this one changed so that people know its current status.

I'm bummed to learn that their aren't any Tyrion chapters in the next book. I looked forward to his more than any others as the books progressed.

# ? Feb 11, 2011 20:04

Yodzilla: Apr 29, 2005; Now who looks even dumber?

Beef Witch

Yeah I'm ordering the fourth book right now so I should have it to start sometime next week. After how the third one ended I can't wait.

# ? Feb 12, 2011 13:38

Anders: Nov 8, 2004; I'd rather score...

... but I'll grind it good for you

Yodzilla posted:

Yeah I'm ordering the fourth book right now so I should have it to start sometime next week. After how the third one ended I can't wait.

You won't find out either. That's why were bad in the bad thread. 10 loving years since the last Tyrion chapter

# ? Feb 12, 2011 14:12

bengraven: Sep 17, 2009; by VideoGames

First of five Maester puzzles up on HBO.com. Each will give a reward. This time it's a video.

http://www.themaesterspath.com

Hints here:

http://www.westeros.org/GoT/News/Entry/The_Maesters_Path_Begins/

You will win the scene where jon gives arya needle..

# ? Feb 28, 2011 19:24

Yodzilla: Apr 29, 2005; Now who looks even dumber?

Beef Witch

I don't know if I'm dense as hell or what but I don't understand what this puzzle is supposed to be at all. Is this written in some language that's not mentioned in the first three books?

e: oh all of the letters in "Seak out" go to different links. hrmm...

Yodzilla fucked around with this message at 19:39 on Feb 28, 2011

# ? Feb 28, 2011 19:36

Shadalator: Oct 22, 2005; I hate her so much. Vince could've married some young hot gold digger, bought her everything she ever wanted, and still saved tens of millions of dollars. Instead he married an old dumb zombie woman who kicked JR in the nuts. What a bitch

Can someone post the answer? I'm not wasting half an hour doing this poo poo

# ? Feb 28, 2011 20:20

bengraven: Sep 17, 2009; by VideoGames

Shadalator posted:

Can someone post the answer? I'm not wasting half an hour doing this poo poo

http://i.imgur.com/7pz07.png

And it's actually kind of fun to use the websites to correlate. Jesus, takes like 15 minutes.

The actual video itself is not on Youtube yet, before anyone asks. I say make people work for it.

# ? Feb 28, 2011 21:18

bengraven: Sep 17, 2009; by VideoGames

Oh and the stupid book is coming out.

http://georgerrmartin.com/if-update.html

So the re-read can continue.

# ? Mar 3, 2011 15:46

Yodzilla: Apr 29, 2005; Now who looks even dumber?

Beef Witch

Looks like a swarm of angry needs has taken down his server.

# ? Mar 3, 2011 15:54

bengraven: Sep 17, 2009; by VideoGames

Yodzilla posted:

Looks like a swarm of angry needs has taken down his server.

No. Sorry. Not done yet.

I'm close, though. Watch this space. When the book is done, you will read it here.

Meanwhile... there is news. Big news. The end is in sight, at long long last, and we're close enough so that my editors and publishers at Bantam Spectra have set an actual publication date.

A DANCE WITH DRAGONS will be in your favorite bookstore on

TUESDAY, JULY 12, 2011

Yes, I know. You've all seen publication dates before: dates in 2007, 2008, 2009. None of those were ever hard dates, however. Most of them... well, call it wishful thinking, boundless optimism, cockeyed dreams, honest mistakes, whatever you like.

This date is different. This date is real.

Barring tsunamis, general strikes, world wars, or asteroid strikes, you will have the novel in your hands on July 12. I hope you like it.

(For what it's worth, the book's a monster. Think A STORM OF SWORDS.)

The dragons are coming. Prepare to dance.

And hey... thanks for waiting.
―George R.R. Martin, March 3, 2011

# ? Mar 3, 2011 15:55

Yodzilla: Apr 29, 2005; Now who looks even dumber?

Beef Witch

Oh poo poo. :pwn:

Guess I've gotta start and finish Feast For Crows before then!

# ? Mar 3, 2011 15:57

Jolo: Jun 4, 2007; ive been playing with magnuts tying to change the wold as we know it

Ha. I'm excited and I'm still not even through AFFC. However, the fourth book has been considerably less engaging than the previous three. I'm close to 200 pages in and I feel like almost nothing interesting has happened. I keep falling asleep while reading it and taking several days to get through a single chapter.

# ? Mar 3, 2011 16:44

Gimmedaroot: Aug 10, 2006; America and Islam are not exclusive and need not be in competition. Instead, they overlap, and share common principles of justice and progress, tolerance and the dignity of all human beings.
-Barack Obama

Jolo posted:

Ha. I'm excited and I'm still not even through AFFC. However, the fourth book has been considerably less engaging than the previous three. I'm close to 200 pages in and I feel like almost nothing interesting has happened. I keep falling asleep while reading it and taking several days to get through a single chapter.

Wow, well that is not encouraging. I just finished GoT for the first time (the night before the DwD date announcement), am jumping into CoK and was ready to read all the way thru AFFC...to find out its not as good as the first three. That breaks my heart.

# ? Mar 3, 2011 19:08

Yadoppsi: May 10, 2009

Gimmedaroot posted:

Wow, well that is not encouraging. I just finished GoT for the first time (the night before the DwD date announcement), am jumping into CoK and was ready to read all the way thru AFFC...to find out its not as good as the first three. That breaks my heart.

That's really only because it's half a book and everybody's favorite characters weren't in it. Ten years waiting for the next Tyrion chapter will take the shine out of anything, but both problems will be rectified July 12th :razz:

# ? Mar 3, 2011 19:16

Gimmedaroot: Aug 10, 2006; America and Islam are not exclusive and need not be in competition. Instead, they overlap, and share common principles of justice and progress, tolerance and the dignity of all human beings.
-Barack Obama

Yadoppsi posted:

That's really only because it's half a book and everybody's favorite characters weren't in it. Ten years waiting for the next Tyrion chapter will take the shine out of anything, but both problems will be rectified July 12th

Oh that makes me feel better about not reading half a book (at how many goddamn pages?). I'm jumping into "A Clash of Kings" right now.

As for GoT, I pretty much agree with this reviewer.

# ? Mar 3, 2011 21:07

Cartouche: Jan 4, 2011

Yodzilla posted:

Oh poo poo. Guess I've gotta start and finish Feast For Crows before then!

Don't bother hurrying. You may as well read them simultaneously.

# ? Mar 3, 2011 21:40

Yodzilla: Apr 29, 2005; Now who looks even dumber?

Beef Witch

I hope this new book is All Bran All The Time.

# ? Mar 3, 2011 21:45

9-Volt Assault: Jan 27, 2007; Beter twee tetten in de hand dan tien op de vlucht.

All Hodor All The Time.

# ? Mar 4, 2011 00:11

CaptainJuan: Oct 15, 2008; Thick. Juicy. Tender.

Imagine cutting into a Barry White Song.

Charlie Mopps posted:

All Hodor All The Time.

A Hope of Hodor

# ? Mar 4, 2011 00:14

For Loop: Apr 12, 2005; The Word on the Street.

A Hodor for Hodor

# ? Mar 4, 2011 03:07

Cartouche: Jan 4, 2011

Yodzilla posted:

Oh poo poo. Guess I've gotta start and finish Feast For Crows before then!

The more I think about this, the more I wish I were in your shoes, so I could read them together for the first time.

Someone needs to go through both books (not that I actually believe it is actually coming out, mind you... just dreaming here) and put the POV/chapters in proper order.

# ? Mar 4, 2011 15:11

Jolo: Jun 4, 2007; ive been playing with magnuts tying to change the wold as we know it

Hodor Hodor? (smashes Bran's head into the top of a doorway)

# ? Mar 4, 2011 15:12

Bizob: Dec 18, 2004; Tiger out of nowhere!

A Glistening of Manhood

# ? Mar 4, 2011 17:22

Cartouche: Jan 4, 2011

Bizob posted:

A Glistening of Manhood

A Dance with Deadlines

# ? Mar 4, 2011 17:32

Bizob: Dec 18, 2004; Tiger out of nowhere!

Cartouche posted:

A ~~Dance with~~ Missing of Deadlines

# ? Mar 4, 2011 17:42

Montalvo: Sep 3, 2007; Fun Shoe

I refuse to believe it.

# ? Mar 4, 2011 17:54

Megera: Sep 9, 2008

I thought I was in the bad thread for a minute.

How marvelous.

A Dream for Dance :allears:

# ? Mar 5, 2011 03:21

Meefy Bread: Apr 4, 2005; lol i can cast spells

How many preview chapters have been released for Dance? There's a Daenerys in the back of my copy of Feast, and I found a Jon and Tyrion on GRRM's website. Is that all of them? Does the order in which I read them matter?

# ? Mar 6, 2011 03:52

For Loop: Apr 12, 2005; The Word on the Street.

I'm having a hard time reading Feast. There just isn't anything to really get excited about yet (but I'm not very far). I guess I just want more Tyrion.

# ? Mar 6, 2011 09:29

Asbury: Mar 23, 2007; Can't post for 6 years!; Hair Elf

The best parts of Feast happen in dialogue. Take that for what you will.

# ? Mar 6, 2011 22:47

bengraven: Sep 17, 2009; by VideoGames

Meefy Bread posted:

How many preview chapters have been released for Dance? There's a Daenerys in the back of my copy of Feast, and I found a Jon and Tyrion on GRRM's website. Is that all of them? Does the order in which I read them matter?

I believe it's 4.

You can see all of them, plus summaries of other chapters he's read here:

http://asoiaf.westeros.org/index.php/forum/14-a-dance-with-dragons/

# ? Mar 6, 2011 22:56

Kainser: Apr 27, 2010; O'er the sea from the north
there sails a ship
With the people of Hel
at the helm stands Loki
After the wolf
do wild men follow

Meefy Bread posted:

How many preview chapters have been released for Dance? There's a Daenerys in the back of my copy of Feast, and I found a Jon and Tyrion on GRRM's website. Is that all of them? Does the order in which I read them matter?

You missed out on the best preview chapter.

Poor Theon :smith:

# ? Mar 6, 2011 23:05

Asbury: Mar 23, 2007; Can't post for 6 years!; Hair Elf

(double post, sorry)

# ? Mar 6, 2011 23:25

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# ? Jun 11, 2024 08:29

Mr_Companie: Jul 4, 2003; ARE YOU INTERESTED IN AN EXCITING BUISNESS OPPROTUNITY?

bengraven posted:

I believe it's 4.

You can see all of them, plus summaries of other chapters he's read here:

http://asoiaf.westeros.org/index.php/forum/14-a-dance-with-dragons/

There are a few more chapters that martins read at fan events and conventions that've made it onto the westeros forums, too. However, they're mostly transcripts/recollections of fans who went to the events several years ago so who knows how much of it will actually be in the books.

# ? Mar 7, 2011 01:17

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