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gvibes
Jan 18, 2010

Leading us to the promised land (i.e., one tournament win in five years)

Chouzan posted:

I have a rather simple question... How do motions and briefs work? Are they usually filed together? Do you have to include a brief in support when you file a motion? I'm in Idaho, if it matters.
It depends on local rules. Some places allow just a motion, some require a motion and memo in support of motion.

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Abugadu
Jul 12, 2004

1st Sgt. Matthews and the men have Procured for me a cummerbund from a traveling gypsy, who screeched Victory shall come at a Terrible price. i am Honored.

some texas redneck posted:

Dude in a car

That would be a private investigator the insurance company's attorneys hired to take pictures of any activity that would suggest there's no actual injury.

Queen Elizatits
May 3, 2005

Haven't you heard?
MARATHONS ARE HARD
Wanted to pop in with a big thank you to everyone in this thread who helped me with my landlord issues awhile back, and an especially big thank you to Incredulous Red for all the links and such he found for me. We went to small claims today and the judge ordered them to pay back our security deposit, filing fee, and prorated rent for the rest of the month after we moved out. Our landlord tried to argue with the judge which was the best part of the entire thing.

Cormack
Apr 29, 2009

Robo Olga posted:

Our landlord tried to argue with the judge which was the best part of the entire thing.

If I have learned nothing else about court I've learned that if the other guy is an rear end in a top hat the absolute easiest way to win is to shut the hell up and let him dig his own grave.

BigHead
Jul 25, 2003
Huh?


Nap Ghost

Chouzan posted:

I have a rather simple question... How do motions and briefs work? Are they usually filed together? Do you have to include a brief in support when you file a motion? I'm in Idaho, if it matters.

I don't know how Idaho works, but where I work you need to file them separately at the same time. The motion usually states in a paragraph or two what you want the court to do. "I now move the court to do make the landlord gimme my money." The memo is usually several pages long, and contains the factual and legal basis for why the court should do something. "According to Idaho Statute 43.42.022(b), the landlord needs to gimme my money if this happens. This happened, and here's the proof I have of it. Therefore, he owes me money."

BigHead fucked around with this message at 22:49 on Mar 11, 2011

Komisar
Mar 31, 2008
New York resident here. I live in a university-affiliated apartment complex with a friend. A few days ago we had a severe storm, which blew open our outer (storm) door and actually managed to rip the door apart. When the worker came by to fix the door today, he informed me that we would be billed for the door because "clearly" we failed to close it properly. Now I'm fairly sure that the door was closed properly but obviously I have no way to prove this. It seems far more likely to me that what happened was caused by faulty construction (I mean, the door actually fell apart, even if we hadn't closed the door properly the same thing would have happened if anyone tried to.....open the door). Do we have any footing on which to stand here or are we just stuck paying up?

Busy Bee
Jul 13, 2004
I was recently involved in a hit and run where I was pushed off the road into the shoulder and then into a pole. The police officer had the nerve to give me a $124 dollar ticket for "driving on the shoulder" when my car was pretty much totaled. He said that he could tell by my "body language" that I was lying.... I am obviously going to dispute it, but I am curious on whether I should get the usual traffic lawyer for $300 or if I should fight it myself.

Busy Bee fucked around with this message at 21:29 on Mar 12, 2011

Choadmaster
Oct 7, 2004

I don't care how snug they fit, you're nuts!
I guess this is a family law sort of question. This is in California:

A friend of mine (no, really!) has parents who are going through a divorce. He is still a minor. His mom is a bit of a psycho (hence the divorce) and has apparently always done anything she could to take money from him. For example, he has always claimed that whenever he got a gift gard for his birthday or Christmas, his mom would take it "for safekeeping" and he'd never see it again. I found these stories of his hard to believe at first, but the more I've dealt with his mother, the more believable they got. On to the specific issue at hand:

A few months ago, she told him she was tired of paying for the data plan on his phone. He's always paid the voice charges himself, since he got his first phone, but when he got a smartphone a couple years back she offered to cover the data charges. She came up with a long contract with things she wanted him to do in exchange for continued payment of the data charges, or he could just pay her X dollars a month. Now, the concept behind this is actually pretty reasonable (do your chores and I'll pay $X) but some of the specifics of the contract were not so reasonable, so he attempted to negotiate.

Long story short, she cut off his data plan without warning. When he called to have it reactivated and pay for it himself, he discovered the plan only cost about 60% of the $X his mom had tried to charge him. She claimed this was just a mistake, and (embarrassed either to be caught or to have made the mistake depending on your POV) started paying for his data plan again.

Fast forward a couple of months, and the divorce is getting nastier and he's moving in with his dad*. His mom informed him that she has pulled out $(12*X) out of his bank account (which she has cosigned to since he is a minor) to cover the past year's worth of data charges. Does be have any recourse here? It seems to both of us that she has flat out stolen his money.

*Also, his mom wants 50% custody, presumably so she can collect child support (up until today I was still hesitant to believe this theory). He wants to live with his dad full-time. Both his parents are idiots who think he (at age 16) should have no say in the matter, and we know that despite his dad's willingness to have him full-time, his dad is likely to cave to his mom. Is there any way he can look up what (if any?) family court judge is working on his parents divorce case so he can make his wishes known? I have no idea how this process works (my parents also got divorced when i was a teen but they listened to my wishes from the start) and as one can imagine it is pretty awkward getting involved in someone else's divorce. I suppose this question is sort of vague, but any advice would be much appreciated.

Choadmaster
Oct 7, 2004

I don't care how snug they fit, you're nuts!

Busy Bee posted:

I was recently involved in a hit and run where I was pushed off the road into the shoulder and then into a pole. The police officer had the nerve to give me a $124 dollar ticket for "driving on the shoulder" when my car was pretty much totaled. He said that he could tell by my "body language" that I was lying.... I am obviously going to dispute it, but I am curious on whether I should get the usual traffic lawyer for $300 or if I should fight it myself.

Not legal advice, but a friend of mine was in a similar situation where the CHP took a disliking to him and totally made up a story in their report that made him at fault for a similar accident. He proved his case with lots and lots of pictures. Go back to the scene immediately and see if there are any skid marks or debris that show what actually happened/that your car couldn't have been on the shoulder to begin with. Get lots of photos of the damage to your car so you can prove the angle at which you were hit supports your version of the events. If you think there were witnesses it also wouldn't hurt to post a notice in the paper (and craigslist) asking if anyone saw the accident and to call you if so.

ChubbyEmoBabe
Sep 6, 2003

-=|NMN|=-

Choadmaster posted:

I guess this is a family law sort of question. This is in California:

...

IANAL but I emancipated myself (long ago, not in CA) and one thing I learned through the process is that unless you are actually an emancipated minor you have little to no recourse in those kinds of things.

As to the custody...that is where it gets messy. It sounds like they are doing an "uncontested divorce" in which they pretty much make all of the decisions between themselves and a judge rubber stamps it. In that case a minor has little to no say in the matter because they are not a part of the process, nor can they inject themselves into it without a whole ton of circumstances requiring it.

Long story short: If dad wants the kid to stay with him and the kid wants it too it will happen if dad is willing to "fight" for it. It sounds like it's still hot in the frying pan so things will change drastically from day to day on what who wants and how hard they are going to go to get it.

Side note: Jesus christ that is sad. gently caress parents who can't even treat an (semi)adult working child with some sort of respect.

ChubbyEmoBabe fucked around with this message at 05:35 on Mar 13, 2011

BigHead
Jul 25, 2003
Huh?


Nap Ghost

Choadmaster posted:

:words:

In most jurisdictions, the preference of a 16 year old holds great weight with the judge in custody matters, especially if said 16 year old shows up to court in nice clothes and pretends to be mature.

In terms of "letting his wishes be known," he needs to get onto whatever the internet resource is for his local court (my jursidiction uses "CourtView," available at the state court website) and follow his parents' case there. But I don't know why neihter of his parents would tell him when their hearings are. Technically, the judge should only modify custody at a custody hearing, but he can show up whenever. If he can't figure that out, he needs to go to the courthouse's customer service desk and ask for the file. Once he has the court dates he can just show up.

Sending a letter to the judge will get him a canned response saying "show up at a hearing."

Edit: there is another option. There are a few jurisdictions (very very few) who have what's called a "Family Law Self-Help Center" or something. Have him call that.

BigHead fucked around with this message at 06:23 on Mar 13, 2011

Logistics
Mar 7, 2009

Most users here don't react too well to gay posts!
Short version: My tenant is storing their crap all over the walkway between our two apartments and cluttering the place up and the landlady won't do anything about it. Can I use legal action to extract sweet justice in my favor, such as Blight ordinances?

Long version: I live on the upstairs floor of an apartment complex, at the end of a walkway where I am on one corner of the building and there is a tenant directly across from me which is the other corner of the building. This tenant has decided to sub-lease to MANY people; at least three. Even before they started sub-leasing, they decided to take it upon themselves to turn the walkway in front of their door and the larger portion of the walkway near the stairs into their own personal storage space for anything from an industrial sized mixer like you might find in a bakery, to all their shoes, plant-life, random belongings and the 5 or 6 bicycles that all the people living there ride.

Before they moved in, even before I moved in, there had been a couch which someone had left near the stairs. They had been parking their bikes on the side of this couch near the railing, which looks horrendous and mildly obstructs the walkway to the rest of the apartments. A couple days ago the bikes had another baby and now there is a 6th or 7th bike over there, including some other junk they've stored there. Because the this need for increased storage space, they moved the couch closer to the stairs so that I came up the stairs one day with 5 or 6 bags of groceries hanging from my hands and I was suddenly running into something, THE COUCH.

Now, I told the landlady when I moved in that I would throw this couch away for her, but I haven't gotten to it. I especially plan on doing it, now. Regardless, I can't handle this tenants crap being all over the place, anymore. I've spoken to the landlady about it and she even knows they are sub-leasing, but because the owner just wants to keep tenants in the place, she doesn't want to bother them about this.

GRRR!!! It doesn't help that these are the strangest tenants I've ever had in any complex. It started out being two Arabic-speaking guys, one of which went everywhere with a sailors hat on. (we call him the captain) Then some other guy started staying there, then some woman, then the woman tried to slash one of the dudes with a knife (supposedly) so the woman was replaced with some random fat guy. Now there is also this new chick who looks and dresses like an extremely feminine black man.

Also, they are very loud, always stomping across the walkway, even in the wee hours of the morning (2am, 3am, 4am, whatever) bringing their bikes up or down the stairs. They smoke cigarettes and weed outside their apartment so it comes into our bedroom window which is unfortunately along the walkway. These tenants are just a complete nuisance and need to go! But at the very least I want to keep them from storing all this crap along the walkway.

Is there any legal action I can take against them for storing all this crap in the apartment walkway? From the research I've done I believe I could use Blight ordinances against them.

I live in San Jose, California in case that is needed for locale-specific residential code advice.

FrozenVent
May 1, 2009

The Boeing 737-200QC is the undisputed workhorse of the skies.

Logistics posted:

Is there any legal action I can take against them for storing all this crap in the apartment walkway? From the research I've done I believe I could use Blight ordinances against them.

Standard A / T question when dealing with neighbors:

Have you tried asking them nicely? "Can you please move that poo poo? And give me a hand throwing out that old couch?"

And IANAL, but I have a feeling most of your legal recourses will be toward the landlady. They're not your tenants.

Javid
Oct 21, 2004

:jpmf:
I would examine the lease and what it says about common areas.

Choadmaster
Oct 7, 2004

I don't care how snug they fit, you're nuts!

ChubbyEmoBabe posted:

As to the custody...that is where it gets messy. It sounds like they are doing an "uncontested divorce" in which they pretty much make all of the decisions between themselves and a judge rubber stamps it. In that case a minor has little to no say in the matter because they are not a part of the process, nor can they inject themselves into it without a whole ton of circumstances requiring it.

I got some more information out of him this afternoon (up until the situation went nuts I just wanted to stay out of their business) and you are right; they were trying to do this themselves, on the cheap. So at the moment, there's no official case and no judge to talk to. However, his mom has apparently lawyered up since things went south, so I guess that situation will be changing soon.

BigHead posted:

Edit: there is another option. There are a few jurisdictions (very very few) who have what's called a "Family Law Self-Help Center" or something. Have him call that.

Thanks. I looked into it and sure enough, we have such a thing. They also do mediation and stuff. We'll be stopping in there on Monday afternoon (really, they can only bother to be open on weekdays during standard work/school hours? *&#@ convenient).


This advice helps for the custody question, but what of the theft? I don't know enough to know if what his mother did was technically illegal or not. It was from a joint account (in fact he doesn't have the ability to make withdrawals without his mom co-signing. He can't even move his remaining money somewhere that is safe from her).

Choadmaster
Oct 7, 2004

I don't care how snug they fit, you're nuts!

Logistics posted:

Short version: My tenant is storing their crap all over the walkway between our two apartments and cluttering the place up and the landlady won't do anything about it. Can I use legal action to extract sweet justice in my favor, such as Blight ordinances?

Here's a random related idea: If the landlord refuses to do anything about it, you can try calling the fire marshal or whoever is in charge of doing safety inspections. I bet having the walkway partially blocked is some kind of code violation (it's definitely an issue if you had to evacuate the building during a fire). They could then force the landlord to do something about it. Do get rid of that couch first though, so as not to be a douche.

Holy Diver
Jan 4, 2006

by angerbeet
Exactly what limitations are there for pretrial discovery? If a plaintiff's complaint involves IP infringement, can they subpoena all of the defendant's personal computers, hard drives, personal journals, text messages, etc?

Essentially, what prevents the discovery phase from turning into an investigation and violating the defendant's right to privacy?

Solomon Grundy
Feb 10, 2007

Born on a Monday

Holy Diver posted:

Exactly what limitations are there for pretrial discovery? If a plaintiff's complaint involves IP infringement, can they subpoena all of the defendant's personal computers, hard drives, personal journals, text messages, etc?

Essentially, what prevents the discovery phase from turning into an investigation and violating the defendant's right to privacy?

There is no easy answer to that, and it is somewhat jurisdiction-specific, but most states' civil rules allow a party to make requests that are "reasonably calculated to lead" to relevant information. How broad or narrow that "reasonably calculated" standard is is something that lawyers spend lots of time fighting over. Discovery is supposed to be an investigation, and a general "privacy" objection will get you nowhere.

Generally, if you can articulate a reasonable basis why, for example, the target's diary may contain some recorded recollections regarding his or her IP theft, then you are entitled to ask for the diary. The burden then shifts to the target to demonstrate that discovery should not be had, for various reasons such as attorney-client privilege, the burdensome or oppressive nature of the request, etc.

Holy Diver
Jan 4, 2006

by angerbeet

Solomon Grundy posted:

There is no easy answer to that, and it is somewhat jurisdiction-specific, but most states' civil rules allow a party to make requests that are "reasonably calculated to lead" to relevant information. How broad or narrow that "reasonably calculated" standard is is something that lawyers spend lots of time fighting over. Discovery is supposed to be an investigation, and a general "privacy" objection will get you nowhere.

Generally, if you can articulate a reasonable basis why, for example, the target's diary may contain some recorded recollections regarding his or her IP theft, then you are entitled to ask for the diary. The burden then shifts to the target to demonstrate that discovery should not be had, for various reasons such as attorney-client privilege, the burdensome or oppressive nature of the request, etc.

The more I learn about our legal system the more sympathetic I become towards the tort reform camp. I don't see anything stopping a determined and sufficiently resourced plaintiff from filing a baseless lawsuit and then using the discovery phase to bankrupt the defendant or force them to settle.

If they're sufficiently malicious it seems like they could use the phase to demand private/compromising information; in the case of the IP infringement case, what stops them from demanding a hard drive which also has proprietary source code and customer records/credit card numbers on it? The hope that a judge will agree on the oppressive nature of that request?

And then if you manage to make it through a purposefully expensive and lengthy discovery phase and go on to win your trial you might be able to recoup your legal fees on the basis that the plaintiff knowingly filed a malicious lawsuit-- something that will cost even more in legal fees to pursue.

In closing, I propose we solve everything with sword fights.

Solomon Grundy
Feb 10, 2007

Born on a Monday

Holy Diver posted:

The more I learn about our legal system the more sympathetic I become towards the tort reform camp. I don't see anything stopping a determined and sufficiently resourced plaintiff from filing a baseless lawsuit and then using the discovery phase to bankrupt the defendant or force them to settle.

If they're sufficiently malicious it seems like they could use the phase to demand private/compromising information; in the case of the IP infringement case, what stops them from demanding a hard drive which also has proprietary source code and customer records/credit card numbers on it? The hope that a judge will agree on the oppressive nature of that request?

And then if you manage to make it through a purposefully expensive and lengthy discovery phase and go on to win your trial you might be able to recoup your legal fees on the basis that the plaintiff knowingly filed a malicious lawsuit-- something that will cost even more in legal fees to pursue.

In closing, I propose we solve everything with sword fights.

First, what does tort deform have to do with IP litigation? IP litigation is almost all federal statutory law. Torts are typically state common law. IP litigation is usually well-resourced company v. well-resourced company, while tort litigation is usually joe sixpack v. sam stooge's insurance company (by proxy).

Second, the United States Court system is based upon the premise that anybody, whether rich, poor, giant company, or your next door neighbor, can have access to a court system that treats everyone the same. It is the one place to take greivances, big or small, and address injustice. Tort reform necessarily changes the playing field, by arbitrarily restricting access to the courts, or capping the remedies available, without relation to the facts of the case. This disproportionally favors the wealthy, who benefit from caps and restricted court access the most. The wealthy get enough breaks as it is.

Third, tort reform is premised upon a big lie. Thousands of lawsuits are filed every day, and, by and large, they are handled in a professional, and relatively efficient way. Every once in a while, you get a nut who sues for millions of dollars over a pair of pants, and the story is so odd that it gets reported in the media. You get media reports of abberational lawsuits once a month or so, and all of a sudden everyone thinks that there is an epidemic of nutty lawsuits when there really aren't. And the insurers foster this belief and smile all the way to the bank, because when you pass tort reform, the insurers no longer have to pay as much on the risks that they insure, and that they have collected premiums on for years.

Fourth, if someone issues discovery which seeks proprietary information, the target files a Motion for Protective Order, asking that the court not permit the discovery, or else only permit it on certain terms that will maintain confidentiality. Then a judicial officer hears the motion and the evidence and arguments submitted by the parties, and makes a decision that will hopefully balance all of the concerns and rights of the parties. Aww, but gently caress it, it is better that we just close the courthouse doors, pass tort reform and prohibit people from filing lawsuits or doing discovery.

Fifth, there is no objective way to measure what is, or is not, a baseless lawsuit prior to filing. What you may believe to be a baseless lawsuit is an opinion likely not shared by your opponent. And everyone who gets sued always thinks the lawsuit is baseless. That's human nature. But ultimately, there is a mechanism for determining what is, or is not, a baseless lawsuit once the case is filed. It is called a jury. But you have to go through the process to get there.

Feces Starship
Nov 11, 2008

in the great green room
goodnight moon

Solomon Grundy posted:

First, what does tort deform have to do with IP litigation? IP litigation is almost all federal statutory law. Torts are typically state common law. IP litigation is usually well-resourced company v. well-resourced company, while tort litigation is usually joe sixpack v. sam stooge's insurance company (by proxy).

Second, the United States Court system is based upon the premise that anybody, whether rich, poor, giant company, or your next door neighbor, can have access to a court system that treats everyone the same. It is the one place to take greivances, big or small, and address injustice. Tort reform necessarily changes the playing field, by arbitrarily restricting access to the courts, or capping the remedies available, without relation to the facts of the case. This disproportionally favors the wealthy, who benefit from caps and restricted court access the most. The wealthy get enough breaks as it is.

Third, tort reform is premised upon a big lie. Thousands of lawsuits are filed every day, and, by and large, they are handled in a professional, and relatively efficient way. Every once in a while, you get a nut who sues for millions of dollars over a pair of pants, and the story is so odd that it gets reported in the media. You get media reports of abberational lawsuits once a month or so, and all of a sudden everyone thinks that there is an epidemic of nutty lawsuits when there really aren't. And the insurers foster this belief and smile all the way to the bank, because when you pass tort reform, the insurers no longer have to pay as much on the risks that they insure, and that they have collected premiums on for years.

Fourth, if someone issues discovery which seeks proprietary information, the target files a Motion for Protective Order, asking that the court not permit the discovery, or else only permit it on certain terms that will maintain confidentiality. Then a judicial officer hears the motion and the evidence and arguments submitted by the parties, and makes a decision that will hopefully balance all of the concerns and rights of the parties. Aww, but gently caress it, it is better that we just close the courthouse doors, pass tort reform and prohibit people from filing lawsuits or doing discovery.

Fifth, there is no objective way to measure what is, or is not, a baseless lawsuit prior to filing. What you may believe to be a baseless lawsuit is an opinion likely not shared by your opponent. And everyone who gets sued always thinks the lawsuit is baseless. That's human nature. But ultimately, there is a mechanism for determining what is, or is not, a baseless lawsuit once the case is filed. It is called a jury. But you have to go through the process to get there.

A+++++ would read again

Great recap Solomon.

Fiendish Dr. Wu
Nov 11, 2010

You done fucked up now!
Here's one for you guys. I started a new topic in the ask/tell but it got closed :(. I thought it was good enough to warrant its own topic but alas, I was wrong and have been asked to post this in the Legal mega-thread. So, here I am.

I'm going to keep this as simple as I can.

I had a laptop that was under warranty.

I contacted the manufacturer for it to be repaired. They gave me an RMA# and I mailed it to them for repair.

Several weeks later, I got a similar laptop in the mail. Not my original laptop, nor a replacement laptop. It turns out, they lost my laptop and sent me somebody else's by mistake. After weeks of dealing with customer service, I finally got a real replacement laptop in the mail (to replace my actual laptop that they lost.) I asked them several times for a prepaid postage label so I can send back the laptop they sent me by mistake. After saying they will email it to me, they never have. I'm tired of dealing with them, and I will not pay to mail this laptop back.

So now here I am with my replacement laptop, and somebody else's laptop sitting in my closet waiting for a prepaid postage label so I can mail it back. From the looks of things, I'm not getting it any time soon.

How long before I can consider it mine / consider it safe to keep / you know what I'm getting at. I live in Maryland if that means anything regarding state laws.

Booklegger
Aug 2, 2008

Solomon Grundy posted:

Second, the United States Court system is based upon the premise that anybody, whether rich, poor, giant company, or your next door neighbor, can have access to a court system that treats everyone the same. It is the one place to take greivances, big or small, and address injustice. Tort reform necessarily changes the playing field, by arbitrarily restricting access to the courts, or capping the remedies available, without relation to the facts of the case. This disproportionally favors the wealthy, who benefit from caps and restricted court access the most. The wealthy get enough breaks as it is.

This is self-serving bullshit. Not that tort reform as generally presented is going to do any favors for the poor, but let's not pretend that the system as it is treats everyone the same. Unless you're wronged by deep pockets, the price of obtaining justice is far out of reach for too many citizens. Think about how often the advice in this very thread is "it's not worth it" because the costs of justice exceed the harm done. Most of those costs have been imposed not by wealthy litigants, but by lawyers, judges(who are virtually all lawyers), or legislators(the vast majority? lawyers).

I do take to heart the argument of not tilting the balance between potential litigants, it's something I'd not really considered before. But it'd be nice, if, once in a while, the volume of the legal trade was pruned back, so to speak.

Alaemon
Jan 4, 2009

Proctors are guardians of the sanctity and integrity of legal education, therefore they are responsible for the nourishment of the soul.

Choadmaster posted:

Thanks. I looked into it and sure enough, we have such a thing. They also do mediation and stuff. We'll be stopping in there on Monday afternoon (really, they can only bother to be open on weekdays during standard work/school hours? *&#@ convenient).


This is another jurisdiction-specific topic, but my state (for instance) provides for the appointment of a lawyer guardian ad litem. That attorney's duty is to the minor, not to the court, and it entails determining what is in the minor's best interests and acting as an advocate to that end.

Incredulous Red
Mar 25, 2008

Robo Olga posted:

Wanted to pop in with a big thank you to everyone in this thread who helped me with my landlord issues awhile back, and an especially big thank you to Incredulous Red for all the links and such he found for me. We went to small claims today and the judge ordered them to pay back our security deposit, filing fee, and prorated rent for the rest of the month after we moved out. Our landlord tried to argue with the judge which was the best part of the entire thing.

Rock on.

Solomon Grundy
Feb 10, 2007

Born on a Monday

Booklegger posted:

This is self-serving bullshit. Not that tort reform as generally presented is going to do any favors for the poor, but let's not pretend that the system as it is treats everyone the same. Unless you're wronged by deep pockets, the price of obtaining justice is far out of reach for too many citizens. Think about how often the advice in this very thread is "it's not worth it" because the costs of justice exceed the harm done. Most of those costs have been imposed not by wealthy litigants, but by lawyers, judges(who are virtually all lawyers), or legislators(the vast majority? lawyers).

I do take to heart the argument of not tilting the balance between potential litigants, it's something I'd not really considered before. But it'd be nice, if, once in a while, the volume of the legal trade was pruned back, so to speak.

So on one hand, the price of the legal system bars too many, but on the other hand, we should "prune back" the volume of lawsuits? I hope you didn't sprain your tongue speaking out of both sides of your mouth.

I am not a pollyanna who believes that the poor, practically speaking, have equal access to the legal system. But, ideologically, they should have equal opportunity to seek redress. If they can't afford it, that is a social ill that is separate from the court function. And if you think the problem is that lawyers make too much money, pay a visit to the lawyer and law school megathread to be disabused of that notion.

The problem with "pruning back" the volume of lawsuits is that I have never seen a proposal to do so that doesn't, in some way, prejudge the merits of a suit. The court's function is to find fact and apply law to the facts. How can you decide what suits have merit and which don't before that process is completed?

Holy Diver
Jan 4, 2006

by angerbeet

Solomon Grundy posted:

So on one hand, the price of the legal system bars too many, but on the other hand, we should "prune back" the volume of lawsuits?

Wouldn't a strict "loser pays" system address both of these problems by reducing the financial commitment required to file legitimate lawsuits while also discouraging frivolous long shot cases?

Abugadu
Jul 12, 2004

1st Sgt. Matthews and the men have Procured for me a cummerbund from a traveling gypsy, who screeched Victory shall come at a Terrible price. i am Honored.

Holy Diver posted:

Wouldn't a strict "loser pays" system address both of these problems by reducing the financial commitment required to file legitimate lawsuits while also discouraging frivolous long shot cases?

Three bad side effects from that:

1. Fewer settlements. Why settle if there's the chance that all your legal bills will be paid by the other side?

2. More gouging/inefficiency. Many legitimate attorneys pare down the bills that they issue to clients as a courtesy, in an attempt to provide a more reasonable amount. If they know the other side is probably footing the bill, why not engage in lengthy, pointless discovery to run up that tab?

3. Increase in bankruptcies and/or penniless plaintiffs. Want to screw with the other side? How about leaving them with a completely uncollectable judgment against someone who won't be able to pay their rent, much less the legal fees on top of whatever the other side happens to win? Some firms would probably come up with a deposit system to be used in case of uncollectable amounts that would just do an end-around your proposed system.

Other not-quite-good but not-quite-bad side effect: lawyers get more money.


Edit: There have been many attempts to compare the American system to the English system, and this article does a better job than my half-assed attempt to explain the positives and negatives - http://www.wcl.american.edu/journal/lawrev/35/toran.pdf

Abugadu fucked around with this message at 05:25 on Mar 14, 2011

Booklegger
Aug 2, 2008

Solomon Grundy posted:

The problem with "pruning back" the volume of lawsuits

Don't want to do that, actually. I said legal trade because I was trying to condense a paragraph of exposition to a one off sentence. Didn't work, I guess.

What I want, is to prune back the volume of... let's say billable hours. This thread frequently advises folks of the simple things they can do for themselves, and I'd like that answer to be more common. I wish folks could actually represent themselves pro se more often, without it being a horribly bad idea. I'd like it if companies didn't feel a need run things past their lawyers before doing them. I think that it's Kafkaesque that to prevent messy, lawyer infested divorces the solution is: lawyers before the wedding! I'd appreciate it if lawyers didn't have control over how many lawyers can practice law, both through the bar, and through control of law schools.

The whole situation just seems like a trap. The system as a whole keeps adding lawyers to things that aren't necessarily helped by legal thinking, and makes it harder for laymen to know whether they are obeying the law, and its precedents.

Does this seem less "talking out both side of my mouth?"

I'd also like to take a moment to say that this:

Solomon Grundy posted:

If they can't afford it, that is a social ill that is separate from the court function.
is also total bullshit. If the court system doesn't contemplate societal injustices, it doesn't address injustice.

baquerd
Jul 2, 2007

by FactsAreUseless

Booklegger posted:

I'd appreciate it if lawyers didn't have control over how many lawyers can practice law, both through the bar, and through control of law schools.

The last thing we need to be is less selective of our lawyer candidates. One huge problem with the US system is that effective representation is a function of available wealth more often than not. The bigger question in my mind is why some lawyers are so much better than others, and what can we do to increase equality of selection and ultimately representation? When fault is pre-determined and not by the facts of the case, but who has the pockets to bring the best manipulators of the court system and the other counsel, negative justice is being done.

A.s.P.
Jun 29, 2006

They're just a bunch of shapes. Don't read too deeply into it.
Edit: nevermind :)

A.s.P. fucked around with this message at 00:12 on Mar 15, 2011

roomforthetuna
Mar 22, 2005

I don't need to know anything about virii! My CUSTOM PROGRAM keeps me protected! It's not like they'll try to come in through the Internet or something!
Fairly simple legal question - if a company says they will charge "$15 plus parts", and then tries to charge $450 for a repair that uses parts which retail for $150, is there some legal recourse against this behaviour, or is it legally valid for them to argue "by 'parts' we meant whatever arbitrary amount we decide we charge for those parts"? (That basically is the argument they've given, though obviously not in those words.)

^^^^ Not-serious answer to the guy above - send the therapist an equal bill for your time. You didn't tell him what you charge per hour up front either, so it's exactly the same! (Also you don't use a sliding scale.)

roomforthetuna fucked around with this message at 18:37 on Mar 14, 2011

Leif.
Mar 27, 2005

Son of the Defender
Formerly Diplomaticus/SWATJester

Abugadu posted:

Three bad side effects from that:

1. Fewer settlements. Why settle if there's the chance that all your legal bills will be paid by the other side?

2. More gouging/inefficiency. Many legitimate attorneys pare down the bills that they issue to clients as a courtesy, in an attempt to provide a more reasonable amount. If they know the other side is probably footing the bill, why not engage in lengthy, pointless discovery to run up that tab?

3. Increase in bankruptcies and/or penniless plaintiffs. Want to screw with the other side? How about leaving them with a completely uncollectable judgment against someone who won't be able to pay their rent, much less the legal fees on top of whatever the other side happens to win? Some firms would probably come up with a deposit system to be used in case of uncollectable amounts that would just do an end-around your proposed system.

Other not-quite-good but not-quite-bad side effect: lawyers get more money.


Edit: There have been many attempts to compare the American system to the English system, and this article does a better job than my half-assed attempt to explain the positives and negatives - http://www.wcl.american.edu/journal/lawrev/35/toran.pdf

Wow, WCL is good for something!

Tort reform is a sham, premised in large part upon false statistics and cooked up numbers by republican backed doctors and insurance defense firms that are too stupid to work nicely with comp/PI attorneys.

Sorry, but tort reform does not benefit the poor at all. It benefits doctors, and their pocketbook, and insurance companies.

Schitzo
Mar 20, 2006

I can't hear it when you talk about John Druce

LLJKSiLk posted:

RE: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Consent_%28BDSM%29

STATE: AL

I am currently dating someone who is into bondage/sadomasochism and has requested that I incorporate certain things, i.e. slapping, spanking, restraints, etc. into our time together.

I mentioned some sort of consent form being signed/put into place so that there is not some sort of fallout in terms of being termed as abuse/assault/whatever.

Is consent a valid defense provided that it is informed consent and signed by both parties?

Not looking to inflict any actual bodily harm or anything, but she expressed an interest in being "used."

Any advice on how to handle?

A little late, but hey:

http://www.thestar.com/news/article/887272--can-an-unconscious-person-consent-to-sex

Schitzo
Mar 20, 2006

I can't hear it when you talk about John Druce

cassis posted:

Jurisdiction: Alberta, Canada

I’ve called the county property tax department; the account is still in old owners’ name. Land Titles Registry tells me that the old owner is still the legal registered owner of our property.

Is there any recourse I can take against the lawyer’s estate to recoup the costs I’m going to have to get the property into my name, and how the hell do I get the rest of the sales proceeds if the trust account is empty?

Short answer, probably. ALIA is the insurer for lawyers in Alberta. Call the number on this page and explain your situation:

http://www.lawsociety.ab.ca/lawyer_regulation/financial_claim.aspx

Konstantin
Jun 20, 2005
And the Lord said, "Look, they are one people, and they have all one language; and this is only the beginning of what they will do; nothing that they propose to do will now be impossible for them.

roomforthetuna posted:

Fairly simple legal question - if a company says they will charge "$15 plus parts", and then tries to charge $450 for a repair that uses parts which retail for $150, is there some legal recourse against this behaviour, or is it legally valid for them to argue "by 'parts' we meant whatever arbitrary amount we decide we charge for those parts"? (That basically is the argument they've given, though obviously not in those words.)

Any reputable mechanic will give you an estimate of all charges before they make the repair. If you didn't approve the repair and they performed it anyway, you are under no obligation to pay, although they may remove their parts at their expense. If they just give you a quote for $450 for a $150 part, there is nothing illegal about that, they can charge whatever they want. If you approved the repair based on the quote of "$15 plus parts" it's your own fault for not inquiring about the cost of the parts, although the mechanic is absolute scum for pulling that on you. However, I doubt it's illegal unless the cost of the part was so high that no reasonable person would have approved it, and $450 for a $150 part doesn't meet that standard.

roomforthetuna
Mar 22, 2005

I don't need to know anything about virii! My CUSTOM PROGRAM keeps me protected! It's not like they'll try to come in through the Internet or something!

Konstantin posted:

Any reputable mechanic will give you an estimate of all charges before they make the repair. If you didn't approve the repair and they performed it anyway, you are under no obligation to pay, although they may remove their parts at their expense. If they just give you a quote for $450 for a $150 part, there is nothing illegal about that, they can charge whatever they want. If you approved the repair based on the quote of "$15 plus parts" it's your own fault for not inquiring about the cost of the parts, although the mechanic is absolute scum for pulling that on you. However, I doubt it's illegal unless the cost of the part was so high that no reasonable person would have approved it, and $450 for a $150 part doesn't meet that standard.
Yeah, that's pretty much what I thought. Thanks. I'll just go the non-legal recourse route of filling the internet with "warning, this place is lying scum" then. (It's Lorenzo Walker Technical Institute - they portray it as "it will be cheap to get your car repaired because it's being repaired by students so we're getting a hands-on experience for them from it, and they're the ones paying - the downside for you is it may take a while", but that's basically just bullshit because the end price is the same as any mechanic would charge, only with the price shifted into "parts" instead of "hours" - plus they are also getting paid by the students who do the work, and they probably get a tax break for being an educational institution that teaches would-be mechanics how to be con-artists!)

They did give us a real quote before making the repairs, but at that point the vehicle was already towed there based on the lie, so there was already some locked in cost.

NarwhalParty
Jul 23, 2010
I just purchased renter's insurance but there is no information on any precautions I should take if I ever need to process a claim. I don't have any receipts for any of my belongings, so should I take pictures or write down serial numbers of my electronics just in case?

Abugadu
Jul 12, 2004

1st Sgt. Matthews and the men have Procured for me a cummerbund from a traveling gypsy, who screeched Victory shall come at a Terrible price. i am Honored.

NarwhalParty posted:

I just purchased renter's insurance but there is no information on any precautions I should take if I ever need to process a claim. I don't have any receipts for any of my belongings, so should I take pictures or write down serial numbers of my electronics just in case?

Yes. Both.

Edit: And hang on to any receipts if you have them.

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Adar
Jul 27, 2001

Adar posted:

Hi thread! I'm a lawyer asking a legal question that has stumped 3 attorneys and counting! Nothing can go wrong with this amirite?

The background is that I'm self-employed and self-insured through Atlantis Health Plan, a regional company in NY. My wife gave birth to our child in July at a hospital that took Atlantis, we gave our insurance information, Atlantis covered the birth* and we were fine.

*the plot thickens here

Since that point, we have received several bills from the hospital for over $2,000. Each time, we duly called the hospital and failed to get a human being (heh), then called Atlantis, who told us everything was fine and the bill was paid. After the fourth letter - that said the debt was going to collections - I speed dialed the hospital for two hours and finally managed to get a response.

The short version is that when my wife gave birth, Atlantis was nearly insolvent (http://www.crainsnewyork.com/article/20100830/PULSE/100829807) and is still having trouble paying claims. Since then, they've gotten a cash infusion, but all claims prior to September are being treated under some settlement that Atlantis claims they've reached with the hospital - for $7,000. The hospital's version of this is that Atlantis made them a $7,000 offer on $185,000 of debt, they laughed at it and are now proceeding to send the individual patients to collections, at which point (the hospital says) Atlantis has said they'd pay up.

As far as the person answering the phones at Atlantis is concerned and told us, the hospital accepted the settlement, has written off the rest of the debt and everything is fine. Note that I believe this about as much as Iranian election results.

So, aside from "do I need a new insurance company?" (lol), my questions are:

1)Does the hospital actually have a claim against the patients? <--- nobody that I've talked to knows this one for sure argh
2)Assuming they don't, chances are no amount of yelling at them on the phone is going to keep them from following through. Do I have any legal recourse for what (in this case) amounts to a fraudulent debt collection? Against whom?
3)If I pay the bill and sue Atlantis for the money in small claims, can I get a judgment enforced before they inevitably go bankrupt? (I'm guessing no? What's a small claims docket look like in NY?)
4)Assuming this gets to collections and I dispute it, I would like my credit rating to not die. Can I take any preventative measures other than disputing the debt to do this?
5)gently caress the American health care system and everything it stands for

Thanks!

Followup: I slightly reworded the first half of this post and sent the updated version in as a complaint to the state insurance board. They replied within a week, Atlantis contacted me two days after that and I just got the second of two followup emails from them that they've re-renegotiated the settlement/the claim is paid.

That successfully marks the first time I've used this degree in four years (to send a threatening letter I could've written as a college freshman). lol law.

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