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Yeah I really undersold them sorry.
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Mar 14, 2011 14:55
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Orange Devil posted:It's not just magnets and prayers, they're willing to type up a story about applauding soldiers too, and maybe even wear a colour for a couple fridays. Requiring any more effort than this, however, and the LIBRUL GUBMENT is obviously overstepping its boundaries. The war would be over in a week if Congress announced that there would be WW2-style rationing and actual sacrifice required of the population. And a draft?!? All the kill-em-all chickenhawks would call their Senator pleading for the war to end if they faced the prospect of actually going to war and backing up their smack talk.
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Mar 14, 2011 16:00
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red19fire posted:And a draft?!? All the kill-em-all chickenhawks would call their Senator pleading for the war to end if they faced the prospect of actually going to war and backing up their smack talk. Yeah but don't worry, the government has fixed manpower problems with misguided appeals to patriotism in the case of the regular forces, and copious amounts of money for the PMCs. I loathe the whole concept of a draft, but it might actually be preferable at this point.
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Mar 14, 2011 16:12
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So I just found out my friend died of cancer recently, though they passed four months ago. I posted on my facebook, and my friend who... homeschools his children, and doesn't vaccinate them, and has 3 so far... responds... http://i.imgur.com/N1kxu.png FFS. Can't I just post my quirky RIP status post without being told IT'S THE GUVMENTS FAULT?
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Mar 14, 2011 20:00
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dphrag posted:So I just found out my friend died of cancer recently, though they passed four months ago. I posted on my facebook, and my friend who... homeschools his children, and doesn't vaccinate them, and has 3 so far... responds... You know what else drug companies and governments will never allow a cure for? Stupidity.
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Mar 14, 2011 21:05
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red19fire posted:Requiring any more effort than this, however, and the LIBRUL GUBMENT is obviously overstepping its boundaries. The war would be over in a week if Congress announced that there would be WW2-style rationing and actual sacrifice required of the population. What's really bizarre is how pervasive these memes are. I know plenty of Iraq war veterans, people who've spent years in Iraq, who still think that Saddam must have just buried the WMD's in the desert and that's why we didn't find them. I've also heard people complain with a straight face about us still being in Kosovo due to Clinton "playing world police" while not saying a thing about how much OIF/OEF have cost us. It's like they literally can't see their own experiences.
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Mar 14, 2011 22:23
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dphrag posted:So I just found out my friend died of cancer recently, though they passed four months ago. I posted on my facebook, and my friend who... homeschools his children, and doesn't vaccinate them, and has 3 so far... responds... (For the record, the public sector is the largest contributor to cancer research by almost 80%, if I recall correctly)
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Mar 14, 2011 23:08
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Armyman25 posted:What's really bizarre is how pervasive these memes are. I know plenty of Iraq war veterans, people who've spent years in Iraq, who still think that Saddam must have just buried the WMD's in the desert and that's why we didn't find them. I don't think it's necessarily that. I would bet money that many Iraq vets who still believe Saddam had WMD's and buried/transported them do so because they need to latch on to some justification for their presence. And I don't mean this in any scornful way or anything like that at all, as my guess is that many who fall into this category may do it subconsciously.
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Mar 14, 2011 23:18
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I'd imagine they were also being frequently informed and prepared for finding large quantities of WMD when they got in country and that there was a very widespread and concerted effort to uncover them too. In those sorts of conditions it's not hard to believe that there probably were some simply because it's being treated as fact by everyone around you with access to more information than you.
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Mar 14, 2011 23:30
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dphrag posted:So I just found out my friend died of cancer recently, though they passed four months ago. I posted on my facebook, and my friend who... homeschools his children, and doesn't vaccinate them, and has 3 so far... responds... Also "cancer" isn't one illness, it's 47 thousand or however many.
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Mar 14, 2011 23:41
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Dad just sent me a link to this article: 3 Essential Facts About the Current Moment: We're Out of Money, The Public Sector is Overpaid, & We Can't Tax Our Way Out of This. Thoughts, goons? Dad's pretty good at arguing (i.e. shouting over me) but maybe you can come up with some good ammunition for me. Edit: Also, he sent me a link to this blog post: Would You Let Your Daughter Fund This Man's Pension?  Well, why shouldn't I fund that man's pension, Dad? What's wrong with him?  Is it that he's fat? Because you are the last man who should be making fun of fat people. 
Pththya-lyi fucked around with this message at 02:20 on Mar 15, 2011 |
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Mar 15, 2011 02:04
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Pththya-lyi posted:Dad just sent me a link to this article: I don't understand your question... you know your Dad's wrong, but you don't actually know why? ljw1004 fucked around with this message at 03:08 on Mar 15, 2011 |
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Mar 15, 2011 02:18
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Well, we can never seem to agree on premises such as whether or not people deserve a living wage. He genuinely believes that the free market is the best way to do things, that American liberals are fascists, etc. He's actually an intelligent person, he's just so good at rationalizing. I just want something that would give him cognitive dissonance or something.
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Mar 15, 2011 02:23
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From that article:quote:Nationally, they make on average $14,000 a year more than private-school K-12 teachers, a gap that gets even bigger when benefits are added to the total. You could also read that as "public school teachers are underpaid, but they aren't paid as badly as private school teachers." Ask him where the mansions are that public school teachers live in, and where they park their mercedes.
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Mar 15, 2011 02:24
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Pththya-lyi posted:He genuinely believes that the free market is the best way to do things Counterpoint: The banking industry in the past 4 years, unless he believes that was the fault of the government. Also: Monsanto, Standard Oil. And ask him to define fascism. Wikipedia posted:Exaltation of violence, war, and militarism are central components of fascism, which fascists see as providing positive transformation in society, in providing spiritual renovation, education, instilling of a will to dominate in people's character, and creating national comradeship through the military service. Sounds more like modern conservatives to me. the fucked around with this message at 02:34 on Mar 15, 2011 |
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Mar 15, 2011 02:30
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ljw1004 posted:I don't understand your question... you know you're Dad's wrong, but you don't actually know why? The human brain treats information that contradicts self-identity as a physical threat, triggering the flight or fight response to the information. Actually addressing why his dad is wrong would have to be done in such a way not to trigger that flight or fight response, maybe by appealing to some other aspect of self-identity (teachers being Good People, or Christian charity, or maybe the concept of The American People if he is a nationalist). Besides, if his dad's imagination has atophied from exposure to too many thought terminating clichés, it would be more effective to reduce fact based arguments into a simple, abstract sound bite in turn.
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Mar 15, 2011 02:32
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the posted:Counterpoint: The banking industry in the past 4 years, unless he believes that was the fault of the government. Bingo. It's all the government's fault for forcing the banks to back those high-risk home loans. (I guess they also compelled Wall Street to invest in said loans, too.)
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Mar 15, 2011 02:33
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Pththya-lyi posted:It's all the government's fault Ask him to point out a time and place where capitalism has not been intimately linked with the state, ie property rights; if he thinks capitalist relations of production are "natural", that capitalism is emergent, point out the communal nature of pre-state life (the Pirahã are an awesome example because they are contemporary).
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Mar 15, 2011 02:39
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Pththya-lyi posted:Bingo. It's all the government's fault for forcing the banks to back those high-risk home loans. (I guess they also compelled Wall Street to invest in said loans, too.) It's all Clinton and Carter's fault for making banks give home mortgage loans to all them coloreds who were buying houses they couldn't afford. -This is literally and argument I've heard. Ask your dad if people didn't try to become rich in the 1950's, when tax rates were much higher than they are now.
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Mar 15, 2011 02:44
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the posted:From that article: Private school teachers aren't licensed either. . . .
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Mar 15, 2011 02:55
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Edit: ^ That may depend on the state; the posted:You could also read that as "public school teachers are underpaid, but they aren't paid as badly as private school teachers." This is definitely true. But there is a huge difference between teaching at public and private schools and it's the reason private schools can get away with paying less: it's a fuckload less work. Simply cutting the class size from ~32 kids (public school) to ~16 kids (private school) cuts a large portion of the workload (grading, preparing supplies, and individual attention) in half. Most private schools can afford additional teacher's aides to lighten this workload further. Throw in the fact that they can kick out and/or exclude the trouble students, kids with special needs, and (in many cases) low-performing students. Add to that that private school *parents* are inherently biased towards being more able and/or willing to invest and assist in their childrens' educations, and you end up with a student population that is MUCH easier to teach. I know a few teachers, and the "should I teach public or private" question was actually difficult for each of them despite the pay disparity. Only one of them ended up teaching public school, and it was a very difficult transition for him;. His initial training was done at a private school, so he went from teaching classes of 15 above-average upperclass kids with access to nearly unlimited supplies and high-end facilities to teaching 33 kids at a time, almost all of whom came to him below grade level in every subject and got little if no support at home, half of whom didn't speak English well (if at all), at a run-down school where he has to buy most of his classroom supplies out of his own pocket. Trying to equate the two situations is ludicrous beyond belief. Choadmaster fucked around with this message at 05:41 on Mar 15, 2011 |
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Mar 15, 2011 03:26
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Yeah this is why I teach in private school. (Besides not wanting to get an education degree.) I would much rather actually teach than be payed 30% more to deal with all the societal ills that are forced on our public school system because nobody else will deal with them. If society was really honest about the vast responsibilities placed on the school system they would also give it vastly more resources.
Arglebargle III fucked around with this message at 04:25 on Mar 15, 2011 |
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Mar 15, 2011 04:21
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The most recent crazy conservative email I was sent by my grandfather was one about Thomas Jefferson. It was all just facts and quotes that illustrated how Jefferson hated establishment and had an "up by his bootstraps" lifestyle, it was pretty tame when compared to some that I've received from him. It might have been interesting accept that it was obviously slanted to the conservative side. The part that pissed me off the most though was this:quote:Thomas Jefferson knew because he-himself studied the previous failed attempts at government. Nature of God? In an email about probably the most secular president the United States has seen, they include things about how Jefferson understood the nature of God and this was somehow a key to his success? I wanted so badly to reply to him with facts about Jefferson's rewritten Bible, but I didn't want to incite a religious debate as well as political.
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Mar 15, 2011 04:36
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How much more difficult is it to get a teaching job in a private school over a public school though?
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Mar 15, 2011 04:56
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It's much more of a crapshoot. There's no bureaucracy like the public school system, so it can be quite chaotic. It often depends a lot on being in the right place at the right time or knowing the right people. Private schools are usually looking for people with degrees in the fields they want to teach, rather than education. Therefore experience is a lot more important for private schools, because there's no guarantee a fresh graduate will have any idea how to teach. Job experience is very very important for a private school resume. Private school teachers start with less training in teaching per se, but more knowledge in their chosen subject compared to an education major. This meshes well with a self-selecting student population. Since private school teachers often don't have formal training in classroom management, they wouldn't necessarily do very well in a public school setting, but because they tend to have deeper knowledge of their subjects motivated students can get a lot out of them. Frankly it's a system that caters to the elite and rewards the best students more than anyone else, but that's what it's supposed to be. Arglebargle III fucked around with this message at 05:30 on Mar 15, 2011 |
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Mar 15, 2011 05:23
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I'd like to contribute the point that comparing private school to public school teachers is kind of pointless when you're not comparing 1) the relative non-financial benefits/costs (that people have mentioned) and 2) the relative qualifications of each. Public school teachers have pretty heavy required qualifications and comparing someone with a 4 year degree, a Masters and whatever other bits and pieces they have to someone with a degree in the subject they're teaching at a private school and showing how the former is paid more is kind of a duh thing. For the arguing about teachers' salaries, whenever the issue of "But they're pensions are funded by are taxes!" comes up it's worth pointing out that it no more comes out their taxes than the rest of the salary. The money they take in isn't amazing based on 1)The qualifications required and 2)The amount of work they have to do. Cutting pension payments is the same thing as cutting their salary but when people discuss it it's like pensions are some magical bonus that teachers are given totally unconnected to the work they do.
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Mar 15, 2011 11:45
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Drewsky posted:The most recent crazy conservative email I was sent by my grandfather was one about Thomas Jefferson. It was all just facts and quotes that illustrated how Jefferson hated establishment and had an "up by his bootstraps" lifestyle, it was pretty tame when compared to some that I've received from him. It might have been interesting accept that it was obviously slanted to the conservative side. The part that pissed me off the most though was this: Thomas Jefferson: (having slaves) pulling himself up by his own bootstraps.
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Mar 15, 2011 13:16
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The biggest thing that gets me with the whole public teacher salary thing is the fact that they almost always misrepresent the number somehow. Reciently, I heard something about the 'average' teacher costing around 100k (OMG!!) in some district. Yeah, if you look at any employee anywhere and add up all of the behind the scenes costs to the employer above and beyond compensation you will end up with a similiarly skewed number. Not to mention that an average is a pretty bad metric when looking at the wages of a large group of people anyway. I love the whole 'teachers get out of work at 3' thing too. Even IF trachers' days were done when the kids go home, it's clear that people are imagining what it would be like if they too got out at 3 and still started their workday at the same time as their own job. I seem to remember the school day starting around 7 and geting out at 3:30 at my high school. That's 8.5 hours if you sinpe the bell everyday...
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Mar 15, 2011 14:54
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Panzeh posted:Thomas Jefferson: (having slaves) pulling himself up by his own bootstraps. Jefferson was in favor of America being a land of small, largely independent farmsteads rather than cities and industry, which is probably what the email was misinterpreting. I hate how every time someone mentions Jefferson someone else HAS to call him out on slavery, though, as if everyone didn't already know, and having slaves somehow completely negates anything else he ever said or did. The better objection might be "Thomas Jefferson: inheriting a place in the colonial aristocracy and ending his life in enormous debt."
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Mar 15, 2011 14:55
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Armyman25 posted:It's all Clinton and Carter's fault for making banks give home mortgage loans to all them coloreds who were buying houses they couldn't afford. Can anyone provide some more information on this topic and how it's wrong? I was under the impression that Clinton did in fact make it easier to get home mortgage loans for lower income families. I'm not exactly sure how he "forced" banks to give out these loans, but I've certainly heard it from some conservative people I know.
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Mar 15, 2011 15:14
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Corbet posted:Can anyone provide some more information on this topic and how it's wrong? I was under the impression that Clinton did in fact make it easier to get home mortgage loans for lower income families. It's probably conflating two different things. A law was passed in the late 70's that said that banks couldn't discriminate on loan applications based on a person's address. They would routinely deny loans to anyone from certain neighborhoods regardless of the applicant's ability to pay. Those neighborhoods being predominately black.
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Mar 15, 2011 15:17
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berzerker posted:Jefferson was in favor of America being a land of small, largely independent farmsteads rather than cities and industry, which is probably what the email was misinterpreting. I hate how every time someone mentions Jefferson someone else HAS to call him out on slavery, though, as if everyone didn't already know, and having slaves somehow completely negates anything else he ever said or did. The better objection might be "Thomas Jefferson: inheriting a place in the colonial aristocracy and ending his life in enormous debt." I don't think people are really using slavery in that way. It more that they are trying to subvert the idea that founding fathers were perfect god-men whose literal words and actions should be the basis of everything we do in government. Obviously that is pointles here but it is very frustrating to consantly hear people talking about the founders literal intent as some higher authority that we ought to defer to. SmuglyDismissed fucked around with this message at 15:24 on Mar 15, 2011 |
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Mar 15, 2011 15:21
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My dad sent me this yesterday. I didn't reply because I honestly don't even know where to start.Scott Walker's website posted:Strange But True Provisions of Collective Bargaining
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Mar 15, 2011 15:48
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You could start with the fact that the reason so much of this poo poo is part of union collective bargaining is because so many of the normal and important aspects of bargaining (i.e. salary) are pretty much decided by local government budgets and so there's not a lot they can do regarding that. The result is that they put a lot of focus on stuff that schools can control like the working environment, etc. poo poo like the crossing guard stuff is an example of union rules that seem restrictive and lovely (this nice old man just wants to help!) but are there because if the union really did take a relaxed attitude towards it schools would soon be encouraging as many volunteers as possible and would probably just not hire crossing guards at all if they could help it to save money. Which is a lovely deal for members of the union, or does your dad think that employees just need to shut up and suffer for the benefit of others?
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Mar 15, 2011 17:09
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Thenipwax posted:My dad sent me this yesterday. I didn't reply because I honestly don't even know where to start. People working overtime and getting paid overtime pay. My word.  I love this one too. quote:A Year’s Worth of Pay for 30 Days of Work Let me try! I found a $1 bill on the ground. It took me one second to bend down and pick it up. This works out to an hourly rate of $3,600. Anually that amounts to 7.2 MILLION dollars. gently caress yeah! I don't know the details of that program but it sounds like an early retirement buyout. Private companies also have programs like that to encourage older, more expensive employees to leave. Every single one of those entires twists reality ever so slightly so that even if true, they are nowhere near as outrageous as they seem. Why is that always the pattern with these? 
SmuglyDismissed fucked around with this message at 17:34 on Mar 15, 2011 |
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Mar 15, 2011 17:31
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SmuglyDismissed posted:I found a $1 bill on the ground. It took me one second to bend down and pick it up. This works out to an hourly rate of $3,600. Anually that amounts to 7.2 MILLION dollars. gently caress yeah! If you're doing this you might as well say that code:
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Mar 15, 2011 17:48
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Everyone remember that Simpson episode where Bart and his class read through Principal Skinner's financial records and discover he makes like 15k a year? They multiply it by his 60 years of life and WHOAH he's a millionaire! This is what conservatives actually think.
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Mar 15, 2011 18:26
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SmuglyDismissed posted:
Ha, my work actually does this when we get raise. "Yeah, you only got a 3% raise this year, but look at this worksheet. It cost us 15% more to employ you this year because you took advantage of our tuition reimbursement!"
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Mar 16, 2011 00:35
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Pththya-lyi posted:Dad just sent me a link to this article: "We can't tax our way out of this, so therefore the rich shouldn't have to pay a dime more!"
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Mar 16, 2011 05:54
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XyloJW posted:About halfway down that list, someone said "Did japan help when katrina happened? Hell no, gently caress them" I know this was on the last page and a little off topic but I got really pissed when I got to Cuba's aid. Wikipedia posted:One of the first countries to offer aid, Cuba offered to send 1,586 doctors and 26 tons of medicine. This aid was rejected by the State Department.[17] Also, before the 2006 World Baseball Classic, Cuba said they would donate their share of the winnings to Katrina victims to ensure the United States embargo against Cuba was not violated. However, after the tournament, the U.S. government refused to allow the donation. 
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