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AbsentMindedWelder posted:An air acetylene torch will not produce any soot. Interesting. I had no idea that there was such a thing.
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Mar 13, 2011 03:16
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jovial_cynic posted:Interesting. I had no idea that there was such a thing. 
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Mar 13, 2011 03:18
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AbsentMindedWelder posted:If all you had was a regular propane or acetylene torch, you could stack up some fire bricks to make yourself a mini-forge, and then you could heat some steel. Someone made a kaowool/ITC-100 mini forge. But some firebricks will work as a temporary non-permanent thing too. If a propane/mapp gas torch will do it, an air-acetylene torch will too. 
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Mar 13, 2011 03:21
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AbsentMindedWelder posted:Plumbers have been using them to solder pipes for may years. Funny, this looks exactly like the torch setup I saw in the flea market today. Only difference is that the hose and torch are black, not red, and a little more beat up. But its ok, because I have my own acetylene-only torch setup (with even a regulator, I think) already which has thus far been entirely useless. Mostly would just be buying it for the bottle (If I did buy it). Also, I of course already have a propane torch. I'll have to experiment a little. Also, I gotta haggle with the flea market guy. He's pretty cool, talked me into some badass, good quality tap-wrenches, and smokes a cigar and drinks a six pack of some kind of beer that comes in a black can. Under what circumstances would a LWS be unwilling to fill a tank? Is there too bad a condition for them to want to fill it? I figure its an owner bottle, its not one of those 40 gallon ones; its small, but it has the sticker of a local welding gas supplier on it.
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Mar 13, 2011 03:50
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Acetylene cylinders are low pressure, so it's rare you'll ever have a problem.
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Mar 13, 2011 04:01
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Just take them the tank and let them fill it. if they bitch tell them that you got it from them a couple years ago and it took you that long to use up the gas. I believe that a tank is condemned if there is heavy rust/pitting or there is a gouge/dent deeper than 0.040 inches.
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Mar 13, 2011 04:42
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Man the stuff I've been making lately is almost bordering on good. Today I was at a guild meeting. We mostly just hung out in the shop working on little things and making sure everyone has paid their dues for the year. The most experienced member was making a chisel out of some spring steel. I'm not sure of the exact thickness of the coil spring we used, but it's at least an inch. Once he was done, I thought I would have a go.    I didn't get all the hammer marks out of it, obviously, but the blade is really the only important part. I think it turned out pretty well.  It's not perfect, but it's pretty good. A little time on the sander and on the buffers did a world of good for it. It's even tempered nicely (thing was able to split 1/4" cold flat iron easily enough, and it'll make a great hot chisel). Yesterday, I spent a couple hours sanding and buffing another railspike letter opener.  I think this one is the best yet.   I just noticed in that last picture some polishing compound left over. I need some more lights in my shop for when I'm working at 9-11pm.
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Mar 13, 2011 08:10
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Those are both awesome. Any particular reason you don't just push into 'knife' territory with those letter-openers, aside from the extra hassle of a nice handle/handguard/etc?
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Mar 13, 2011 16:17
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Mostly my limited skill level. I want a free floating belt sander first, too. Eventually I'll be good enough.
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Mar 13, 2011 18:44
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Going back to O/A cutting, if you have ever used propane and oxygen, it works great. Propane is a lot cheaper than acetylene (god I hate spelling that word). Propane doesn't burn as hot as acetylene, however it puts out higher BTU's ( ). Waaaay less smoke/sooty shullshit. I recommend propane to everyone. You do however have to buy a different tip for your torch so you don't end up running it and being like "omgwtf is this poo poo gently caress you duck hunt."
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Mar 13, 2011 20:44
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duck hunt posted:Going back to O/A cutting, if you have ever used propane and oxygen, it works great. Propane is a lot cheaper than acetylene (god I hate spelling that word). Propane doesn't burn as hot as acetylene, however it puts out higher BTU's ( You also need to know what kind of hose you have. Some are rated for acetylene ONLY so you have to make sure your hose can handle propane.
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Mar 13, 2011 21:01
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Ambrose Burnside posted:Those are both awesome. Any particular reason you don't just push into 'knife' territory with those letter-openers, aside from the extra hassle of a nice handle/handguard/etc? I bet you railroad spikes are bottom of the bottom line steel, and are from when steel smelting hadn't been refined like it has today. Kudos Slung on the chisel and letter openers. The chisel has some of that same pitting and imperfections going on in the steel itself that I've come across a lot recently; I'm wondering if it's not an inherent attribute of that kind of high-carbon steel. (I'm talking about the spongy[sic - having the appearance of a sponge, I'm having just as hard a time spelling it as you probably are reading it] looking areas) And also I second the need for a belt sander.
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Mar 13, 2011 21:05
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duck hunt posted:Going back to O/A cutting, if you have ever used propane and oxygen, it works great. Propane is a lot cheaper than acetylene (god I hate spelling that word). The one exception where propane is superior is demolition for scrapping purposes. You don't care about cut quality, just doing it as cheap as possible. Sometimes it's easy to lose a cut on dirty metal with a propane flame... that's where pre-heating the cut line ahead of time helps. If you plan to use a torch alot for cutting and shaping metal on finished pieces, consider propylene, and don't forget to get the right tip size for the job. As far as hoses are concerned... a grade R hose is for acetylene only. A grade T hose can run any fuel gas. Also, you have to get the correct tip for the fuel gas you intend to use. You can adapt an acetylene regulator to a propane or propylene bottle, however they do make torch regulators intended for those fuels. The only real difference is they don't have a 15 PSI limitation that acetylene regulators do. As long as you are using regular cutting tips this isn't much of an issue, but some rosebud tips these days are designed for a high fuel pressure. It's useful to have all 3 gases available in your shop, as many manufactures often make specialty purpose tips that are only made to run on one type of fuel gas. I still prefer acetylene for soldering and brazing. edit: 3 torches in 1: An old Presto-lite air-acetylene torch for soldering, Harris D85 oxy-acetyelne for welding/brazing, and Victor ST2600FC oxy-propylene for cutting (It's hidden behind the bottles). I rarely ever use propane so I don't leave it hooked it up. The Y adapters are worth the $ so you don't have to keep changing hoses when you want to do something. 
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Mar 13, 2011 21:41
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The Scientist posted:I bet you railroad spikes are bottom of the bottom line steel, and are from when steel smelting hadn't been refined like it has today. The spongy look is an effect from two things. First, the steel oxidizes in the forge unevenly, leading to the stuff that looks like a sponge. The other is from hammers. The biggest ones on the right side of the facets leading to the edge are from the power hammer. The ones along the shaft are just from my hand hammer, mostly from me attempting to straighten it out once I cut it off of the rest of the coil. I didn't get rid of the bigger ones along the facet, but not for lack of trying. I was sanding and grinding for an hour. I decided it wasn't worth bothering with, it'll work fine.
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Mar 14, 2011 00:19
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Slung Blade posted:I didn't get rid of the bigger ones along the facet, but not for lack of trying. I was sanding and grinding for an hour. I decided it wasn't worth bothering with, it'll work fine. I agree. My biggest struggle is knowing when to quit working on something.
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Mar 14, 2011 02:23
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Out of curiosity, how long/how many heats did it take to get the approximate shape of that chisel? Working really heavy stock is a huge pain in the rear end, and I more or less avoided it when I had forge-time because it was either a struggle to shape or I risked burning the work trying to get it sufficiently soft.
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Mar 14, 2011 14:22
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Ambrose Burnside posted:Out of curiosity, how long/how many heats did it take to get the approximate shape of that chisel? Working really heavy stock is a huge pain in the rear end, and I more or less avoided it when I had forge-time because it was either a struggle to shape or I risked burning the work trying to get it sufficiently soft. Actually, not that many. 4-6 to straighten it out enough off the coil, 3 or so to cut it, and only 2 or 3 to pound out the shape with the power hammer and true up the shaft. Had I been smarter about straightening it off the coil (I couldn't find the big bending fork that the club has, so I was using a hammer for part of it which isn't easy) that could be cut down by half at least. I actually prefer heavier stock because it holds its heat a lot longer, and you have more time to work it before you have to reheat. Also the guys there were telling me you want to heat high carbon (like spring) as little as possible, so the carbon doesn't burn out of iron.
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Mar 14, 2011 16:42
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Regarding hot work with an atmosphere-acetylene torch:  I was able to make this out of an old HF drift punch using only my MC prest-o-lite, didn't take that long. If anyone's wondering what the heck it is, its a anticlastic raising stake. Most jewelry supply houses sell them for big bucks so I figured it was worth a shot. Any advice on removing scale? I just grind them with an 80-100 grit wheel then hit them with ZAM.
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Mar 15, 2011 01:08
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Now that you've explained that its an anticlastic raising snake, I still have no idea what it is. Is that a 5" x 5" block of 4140 you're using as an anvil? How much did it cost? And how much does it weigh?
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Mar 15, 2011 02:01
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laylow posted:Regarding hot work with an atmosphere-acetylene torch: Very nice. Also, for scale, use an angle grinder with a braided wire cup (not wheel) for curved stuff, and an angle grinder with a flap disk for flat stuff. Unless you're really lucky and have one of those tumbler things filled with media. Or have the space to build one out of an old barrel.
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Mar 15, 2011 02:50
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The Scientist posted:Now that you've explained that its an anticlastic raising snake, I still have no idea what it is. http://www.oldworldanvils.com/anvils/4x4.html I've given serious thought to picking one up myself, but I'm a Canuck so shipping will suddenly start sucking a whole bunch. I haven't figured out if it'd be cheaper to just buy a chunk of 4140 locally and get it milled to a useful shape.
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Mar 15, 2011 16:07
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Ambrose Burnside posted:http://www.oldworldanvils.com/anvils/4x4.html Just go to Metal Supermarkets. They'll cut you any length of any type of metal that you want. An angle grinder and a big file will handle the radii for the sides, and you can make them any radius you want, or even a range of different sizes to suit different situations. Hell, you could get whatever size you want, too. 10x4x4, 12x5x5 (maybe, I dunno if anyone makes 5x5 in 4140).
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Mar 15, 2011 16:26
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I just woke up so excuse my [even greater than normal] incoherence. In the States the just introduced flat rate shipping where if you get the particular size parcel boxes the offer, anything the can fit in there, regardless of weight, is the same shipping price. "If it fits, it ships." Can you imagine ordering a hunk of 4140 the size of the largest flat rate box and shipping it? That would be the ultimate abuse of the system. I imagine a dude bending over to pick it up and instantly herniating a disc. They have to get a dolly just to move a single flat rate shipping box. -------  If you don't care that much about files, you might not want to bother reading the following 3 paragraphs I seem to have written about them. This is a weird situation I haven't quite figured out. So the size of the teeth, rather than the number of them, varies with the size of a file, right? 'Cause there's this huge nicholson file I've had my eye on at home depot, I think it's like 12 or 14 inches maybe, or greater IDK, and its a bastard (I mean that literally, its a bastard file), but the package still says "for gradual removal of material". I think that's because its not double cut. But I got this smaller "handy" file of the same brand that says "for gradual to rapid removal of material", and I think that's because one side is double cut and the other is single. So in the instance of the bigass bastard file, when they say "gradual", is that relative? Because even though its a much bigger file and the teeth are clearly larger (if only apparantly single cut), if it wouldn't lessen my work any by virtue of being more aggressive/hungry, it doesn't seem worth it. I love those huge files that I see blacksmiths in videos using, and also that I've seen the farriers shoeing our horses use; incidentally my favorite "handy" file seems to be approaching the end of its life  even though I take such good care of it and keep it wrapped up in a cloth when I'm not using it.
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Mar 15, 2011 17:25
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It depends on the file manufacturer. The size of the teeth are also a function of the type of file it is. You can get really big files with very fine teeth. I've got little tiny files with very (well, relatively) aggressive tooth patterns, and very big ones with very fine teeth. Basically, there is a file for every occasion if you know where to look for them. Also, keep in mind that a large file with a fine tooth pattern can still do fairly rapid removal. You move a lot more teeth over the workpiece in a single stroke just because it's so large, making them a little more efficient in terms of time spent. Slung Blade fucked around with this message at 18:07 on Mar 15, 2011 |
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Mar 15, 2011 18:04
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I picked up a used trailer form my LWS today at a good price. They generally don't sell trailers but had a couple ones lying around unused and were willing to cut me a deal. The frame is 4'x6'. My engine driven welding machine is 20" x 4'. I'll probably have to weld in some extra steel depending on where I decide to locate the machine. I'll weld down a piece of plate and fabricate some type of rack to securely hold some torch and shielding gas cylinders. I should have enough room left over to put down some steel plate to act as a small welding table/work surface and bolt a vise to it. (It may not be the steadiest work surface, but it's better the nothing in the field!) I won't add any toolboxes as my van has plenty of storage space inside. I'll also be giving it a paint job and adding lights. (The welding shop used magnetic lights when they transported it.) If anyone has any suggestions feel free to speak them. 
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Mar 15, 2011 19:21
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The Scientist posted:In the States the just introduced flat rate shipping where if you get the particular size parcel boxes the offer, anything the can fit in there, regardless of weight, is the same shipping price. "If it fits, it ships." They have a 70 lb weight limit on those. The increased shipments and ease of use makes it worth while to put up with the few people that will abuse it.
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Mar 15, 2011 20:19
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http://www.appaltree.net/rusty/index.htm someone please take google away from me
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Mar 15, 2011 22:09
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The Scientist posted:... For maximum removal on softer materials the best files are said to be the Vixen-style/round tooth files. These are the type recommended for any metal softer than aluminum, or if a very smooth finish is desired. The whole file surface is flat, but the teeth are cut curved: (Vixen makes all kinds of files, but here is one example of curved teeth) http://www.simondsinternational.com/files/vix-babbitt.php?menu=mnuPFiles There are two varieties, normal (centered radius) and offset (radius offset to one side). This page shows both in the last image: http://woodworkerszone.com/wiki/index.php?title=Files_and_rasps quote:... incidentally my favorite "handy" file seems to be approaching the end of its life Look in your local phone book for places that do machine-tool sharpening, or call up local machine shops and ask them if they know anyplace that sharpens files.
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Mar 16, 2011 00:30
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No man, once a file is dull you use that poo poo as a blank for some other tool. Like a knife 
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Mar 16, 2011 01:18
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The Scientist posted:anticlastic raising is just forming with the curves in two different planes like this:  Heikki Seppa Wrote The Book on metalforming, literally http://www.amazon.com/Form-Emphasis-Metalsmiths-Heikki-Seppa/dp/0873382129 where a lot of words for describing formed shapes are coined are reasoned out, most of his stuff concerns flatware/holloware, not blacksmithy. and yeah thats the old world anvils one. Good size for jewelry stuff, if you are doing real blacksmithing you probably want a heavier one. Free shipping from those guys though.
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Mar 16, 2011 02:27
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oxbrain posted:They have a 70 lb weight limit on those. The increased shipments and ease of use makes it worth while to put up with the few people that will abuse it.
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Mar 16, 2011 04:32
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Bad Angus! Bad!
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It looks like our friend is banging out hard drive platter roses, they look pretty sweet, actually. http://forums.somethingawful.com/showthread.php?threadid=3381401
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Mar 16, 2011 21:05
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The Scientist posted:It looks like our friend is banging out hard drive platter roses, they look pretty sweet, actually. Yeah, I'm still using those Klenk snips I got and they're pretty great. Hopefully they can be sharpened when the time comes. Thanks blacksmithing thread!
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Mar 17, 2011 02:33
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Did one of you guys buy me this avatar? I don't think I'm ever gonna figure out who done it. Also, do you think I could anneal an old file, and cut bigass teeth into it with a different (new) file, then harden it again and use it as a rasp for wood?
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Mar 17, 2011 15:16
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One of the blacksmithing books I have mentioned that the easiest way to make rasps is to kludge together a... rounded-off pointy tool with one bevel, and then tap/hammer it into the hot rasp blank, kinda 'rolling' it upwards to lift up a rasp-point. I'm not describing it very well, but I don't have access to the book at the moment. The main point of that passage was describing one of case-hardening's neater/less time-consuming applications- heat up the more-or-less-finished mild-steel rasp, sprinkle on case-hardening compound, wait for it to burn off, and your rasp-tips are now carbon steel.
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Mar 17, 2011 15:56
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Think a center punch with one side left empty, and the full side somewhat hollowed out. Like a crescent. That what you mean? I read the same thing in on of my books, so I think I know what you're talking about. So, is it possible? Certainly. I wouldn't try to cut even an annealed file with another file though. That's just asking for trouble. New files are actually cut with chisels. Uh, modern ones may be done with wheels, I'm not 100% sure on that, but I know blacksmiths used to do it by hand with chisels. Someone even invented this neat little cogged gear system to automatically tap a hammer to make really nice and even teeth very close together.
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Mar 17, 2011 17:25
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Slung Blade posted:Someone even invented this neat little cogged gear system to automatically tap a hammer to make really nice and even teeth very close together. That was Leonardo Da Vinci! I just read that too, but I didn't know that they used to make files with chisels, that's awesome. I had always wondered how they used to do it. Especially how they could make a metal tool out of extremely hard metal that could scratch other metals (I mean in "the old days", especially before the industrial revolution). I'm gonna go look into that right now. 
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Mar 18, 2011 02:45
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AbsentMindedWelder posted:I picked up a used trailer form my LWS today at a good price. They generally don't sell trailers but had a couple ones lying around unused and were willing to cut me a deal. If you are really going to use it as a work space it might be helpful to attach trailer jacks to the rear corners to take some of the wobble and bounce out of it while using the vise etc.
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Mar 18, 2011 14:40
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Bogatyr posted:If you are really going to use it as a work space it might be helpful to attach trailer jacks to the rear corners to take some of the wobble and bounce out of it while using the vise etc. I'm still debating where to locate the cylinders and welding machine. I'd like to keep things as balanced as possible. The trailer is 4' wide and the welding machine is 4' long. I may mount the machine sideways right over the axle or so, and put the cylinder rack in front of it. That might give me just the right amount of tongue weight too.
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Mar 18, 2011 15:25
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It's an engine welder, right? You'd want to take into account where the exhaust and the radiator intake are, I guess. If you're looking at if from the front (so that it looks like its got a 20" cross section, which I think you specified) the exhaust/radiator isn't on the front or back of it, is it? Wouldn't want the wheel well's of the trailer to get in the way.
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Mar 18, 2011 17:10
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