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eggyolk posted:Either way I think it's ugly and sounds like rear end. Needs a few years. This forum has the biggest group of haters... Motec is one of the few US motorcycle companies trying to make a go at it not following the "lets make Harley-Davidsons even through there's already a Harley-Davidson in the US duurrr" strategies. Once again somebody tries something new and you guys just want to tear it down. Its no surprise I keep reading articles about the death of motorcycling in the US if this is the attitude of the riders here.
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Mar 16, 2011 22:31
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I'm not sure he actually goes full throttle in that video clip. It looks like he just dropped his wrist a bunch, but if you watch his knuckles they barely move around the grip.
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Mar 16, 2011 22:39
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Z3n posted:I might be crucified for this but I think it sounds rattley and crappy. It might sound okay in person. It didn't sound like the highest quality sound reproduction.
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Mar 16, 2011 22:46
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Coredump posted:This forum has the biggest group of haters... Motec is one of the few US motorcycle companies trying to make a go at it not following the "lets make Harley-Davidsons even through there's already a Harley-Davidson in the US duurrr" strategies. Once again somebody tries something new and you guys just want to tear it down. Its no surprise I keep reading articles about the death of motorcycling in the US if this is the attitude of the riders here. Sorry, I'm not going to say something is good just because it's American and new. That's stupid. Motus isn't bringing anything of note to the table. Great, you have a heavy, over displaced, under powered touring bike. Their selling point is "MADE IN AMERICA", and I think that's loving bullshit. Give us some goddamn innovation, the Roehr may be stupid expensive but at least it does something interesting. If it was just a touring bike, then it'd be alright, but if you're going to make a streetfighter it needs to stand up to the competition, which is a literbike with handlebars and no fairings, and it doesn't even come close. We hate on bikes that suck, and frankly, most American motorcycle companies can't design their way out of a wet paper bag. US companies seem to believe for some stupid reason (probably the success of Harley) that performance doesn't matter and that's just inane as Americans buy non cruisers based on performance alone. Doctor Zero posted:It might sound okay in person. It didn't sound like the highest quality sound reproduction. That's the hope. But I also bet it's going to be overpriced, underpowered, and heavy. If it's under 500 pounds, has good torque from low RPM, and is under 15k, then maybe they'll have something, but I doubt it's going to have any of those. Chopping a car engine in half typically makes for a poo poo motorcycle engine.
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Mar 16, 2011 22:53
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Z3n posted:We hate on bikes that suck, No you don't. You hate on anything that doesn't fit your narrow confines of what you think a motorcycle should be. I'm not asking you to say the motorcycle is good just because its from the US. I'm wanting you to give it a CHANCE. But you guys already think it sucks and its not worth anything when its still a prototype. First, you call it heavy. Umm, how heavy is it? I had to go look and the first weight I saw CLAIMED was around 500 lbs dry source. I go pull up the first sport touring motorcycle comparison I can find and look at the weights and the lightest one is 667 pounds. source. Which means Motus can be off by 167 pounds and still be at the lighter end of the scale for sport touring weight. So we can be pretty sure its not going to be heavy, so strike that off the list.  Next you say its underpowered. Checking my source for the comparison test between the Yamaha FJR1300, BMW K1200GT, Kawasaki Concourse 14, and Honda ST1300 the horsepower has a mean of roughly 120 horsepower. Motus claims a minimum of 160 bhp. So its not underpowered.  Then there's the comment about the over displacment. At this point I think you're just grasping at things to not like about the bike. Yes the engine displaces 1.6 liters, which is more than all the engines in the sport tourer test I linked. But what will that affect really? Its going to be a direct injection engine, so gas mileage shouldn't be any worse than other bikes in the 160 hp range. The only other thing I can see having a displacement that big on a bike being a negative is with engine weight, and the KMV4 is claimed to weigh just 130lbs source while a hayabusa engine weighs 200lbs source So I'm not sure what you're getting at unless you're afraid it will have too much torque off the line and that will make it hard to drive smooth? Plus it does bring some new stuff to the table. The engine they've paired with the bike is being made with accessibility to the aftermarket in mind. They want people to modify the engine from the outset as one of their goals. So that is something. Then you make a non point about them having a touring model and a naked model. HOW DARE THEY. So the reasons you give for this motorcycle sucking have no basis in reality. However, the fact that this bike does weigh less and make more power than its competition doesn't really matter because this bike doesn't even exist yet. Its still a pretty prototype. So its just a pointless for me to cheerlead for it as it is for you to say it sucks WHEN ITS STILL A PROTOTYPE. However, I'm willing to give it a chance and wait and see if it will succeed or fail on its own merits when you've already made your mind up about it with facts that are not based on reality. Edit: Ultimately I should know this is futile discussing something like this with you because you will argue till you're blue in the face and discard any evidence presented to you that doesn't agree to your point of view. Coredump fucked around with this message at 23:55 on Mar 16, 2011 |
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Mar 16, 2011 23:24
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Coredump posted:quote:If it was just a touring bike, then it'd be alright, but if you're going to make a streetfighter it needs to stand up to the competition, which is a literbike with handlebars and no fairings, and it doesn't even come close. I'll adjust that in light of your post to "it'd be good in the touring market if there's enough dealer support to make people feel comfortable riding them distance". As a streetfighter, it's still 100-150 pounds overweight, with marginal HP (160 crank HP is going to be ~140 at the rear wheel), down around 30-40 HP on any other proper streetfighter out there. Also: quote:Case says Motus will build just “hundreds of bikes per year, not thousands.” Bad news for those of us looking for performance and comfort. I’m guessing the bikes won’t be cheap, either. Nor should they be. It’s pretty clear that demand for a truly American sportbike is small, which means small numbers and big prices—just look at Erik Buell Racing, Roher and Fischer. Yay, another boutique maker of bikes that's going to live or die on rich people blowing money on toys they don't ride! Also  at the "demand for a truly american sportbike is small". The problem is that all the american sportbikes suck. You want a good sportbike, you buy japanese, again, see that American companies can't produce performance motorcycles to save their lives. And from your own source: quote:Even better, the 'Busa's little bundle of power is a bantamweight 135 lbs. Uhh...did you even read your references? Goddamn dude. Z3n fucked around with this message at 00:14 on Mar 17, 2011 |
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Mar 17, 2011 00:04
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Coredump: I don't know what you're arguing about with z3n because I've had him on ignore for a while, but I think you're right.
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Mar 17, 2011 00:08
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Coredump posted:Next you say its underpowered. Checking my source for the comparison test between the Yamaha FJR1300, BMW K1200GT, Kawasaki Concourse 14, and Honda ST1300 the horsepower has a mean of roughly 120 horsepower. Motus claims a minimum of 160 bhp. So its not underpowered. Honda shipped a V4 Sport tourer and claims 170hp. Sadly it too is pretty ugly. Weighs in at 580-590 I believe. Call me when they get to market, and have a decent dealer network.
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Mar 17, 2011 00:13
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blugu64 posted:Honda shipped a V4 Sport tourer and claims 170hp. Sadly it too is pretty ugly. Weighs in at 580-590 I believe. Call me when they get to market, and have a decent dealer network. Or you could buy a Ducati Multistrada 1200 and have a bike that weighs 478 pounds wet, makes basically the same wheel HP, has ABS, traction control, touring options, electronically adjustable suspension, and every feature under the sun. And it'll probably be the same price or cheaper than the Motus. And to take this back full circle, Suzuki already made this bike:  It bombed for all the same reasons a Motus streetfighter will bomb. Their touring model needs to have the issues of dealer network dealt with before it can be taken seriously, so...as blugu64 says, get it to market and get a decent dealer network and we'll still have an expensive, boutique bike that none of us will ever buy or own or probably even see in person. Z3n fucked around with this message at 00:20 on Mar 17, 2011 |
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Mar 17, 2011 00:15
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Z3n posted:Ablooablooabloo, an American manufacturer's first entry isn't the best thing on the market. It's a first-entry bike from a new company, this is hardly unimpressive given that. Give the company some credit, hopefully they can grab a niche and get some time to develop something really neat. I'm just glad to see someone from the U.S. at least trying to compete. Or maybe I should just  over numbers and post about it on the internet?
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Mar 17, 2011 00:18
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NipplesTheCat posted:It's a first-entry bike from a new company, this is hardly unimpressive given that. Give the company some credit, hopefully they can grab a niche and get some time to develop something really neat. I'm just glad to see someone from the U.S. at least trying to compete. Like Roehr, Fischer, Buell, Confederate, Magpul, or any of the other wonderful American motorcycle makers and hot rodders that have brought absolutely nothing to market but overpriced boutique bikes? Don't feel too bad though, I made that same argument when Fischer first started releasing press info.
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Mar 17, 2011 00:25
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Z3n posted:Yay, another boutique maker of bikes that's going to live or die on rich people blowing money on toys they don't ride!
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Mar 17, 2011 00:26
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Rev. Dr. Moses P. Lester posted:Doesn't that pretty much describe most Harleys, most Ducatis, most BMWs? They all make plenty of money. No, because all of those makers of bikes sell thousands of bikes a year? Motus has production goals in line with Bimota's yearly production, for comparison. Also, parts availability for bikes in 5-10 years. You know you can get parts for any of those in the future, but I wouldn't want to try and find parts from any of the small American companies in the next decade. Z3n fucked around with this message at 00:39 on Mar 17, 2011 |
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Mar 17, 2011 00:28
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Z3n posted:Like Roehr, Fischer, Buell, Confederate, Magpul, or any of the other wonderful American motorcycle makers and hot rodders that have brought absolutely nothing to market but overpriced boutique bikes? I am sorry that if small companies with small amounts of resources appeal to small audiences is an offending idea to you. I hope some day that you'll be able to deal with this. It's a neat bike, and they have a separate package for it if somebody wants it that way. The bike was obviously designed to be a sport-tourer, which as Coredump showed, it fits the bill quite fine. I hope you didn't get this upset when Suzuki offered the Busa as the B-king too.
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Mar 17, 2011 00:31
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I actually saw a Bimota the other day. Too dark to get a good photo though. I've got nothing against Motus, Best of luck to them, and I hope they do well. If its going to have a boutique price it's got to justify it. If its priced reasonably, then hell yes. As it stands though, there is no product and this is all idle speculation. blugu64 fucked around with this message at 00:35 on Mar 17, 2011 |
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Mar 17, 2011 00:32
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^^^ Yup. Idle speculation is always fun though, especially when it drags the trolls out of the woodwork  NipplesTheCat posted:I am sorry that if small companies with small amounts of resources appeal to small audiences is an offending idea to you. I hope some day that you'll be able to deal with this. Say hi to the guys in IRC for me, especially n8r. I know that him constantly posting about having me on ignore is how he shows his love.
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Mar 17, 2011 00:37
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The unit contribution margin is always higher for a more expensive product, at least in the road vehicle business. That's why every loving car brand in the world tries to get into the luxury market segment, even though most of them clearly have nothing new to bring to the market. And that's why every new car or motorcycle brand today only sell expensive poo poo. They don't WANT to appeal to small audiences, but that's the way they've got to play it being a new brand.
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Mar 17, 2011 00:39
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Nidhg00670000 posted:The unit contribution margin is always higher for a more expensive product, at least in the road vehicle business. That's why every loving car brand in the world tries to get into the luxury market segment, even though most of them clearly have nothing new to bring to the market. Hyosung tried to break into the market with reasonably priced bikes and would have actually probably done very well if their bikes hadn't totally sucked. The second gen of their bikes were much better, but it was too little, too late. When your first generation of bikes is poo poo, you can't expect to build enough trust in the customer base to convince people it's a good idea the second time around. They even had their own spec race series...but the bikes bombed because of the consistent issues they had. I honestly believe they could have been contenders if they hadn't had such a lovely product, they had everything else lined up from dealer support to racing for exposure.
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Mar 17, 2011 00:44
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Z3n posted:Say hi to the guys in IRC for me, especially n8r. I know that him constantly posting about having me on ignore is how he shows his love. I am assuming this is intellectual deferment. In the hopes of explaining to you why it works this way, I am quoting this guy's post so that you can read it again. Nidhg00670000 posted:The unit contribution margin is always higher for a more expensive product, at least in the road vehicle business. That's why every loving car brand in the world tries to get into the luxury market segment, even though most of them clearly have nothing new to bring to the market. Though I suppose labeling someone on the forum a troll if they disagree with you is a solid A+ effort too.
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Mar 17, 2011 00:45
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Mar 17, 2011 00:48
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SaNChEzZ posted:Thank you for the first picture in billions of posts. God damnit all! I want your new gold speed rocket.
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Mar 17, 2011 00:49
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schreibs posted:Thank you for the first picture in billions of posts. God damnit all! I want your new gold speed rocket. You're welcome, and yes the gold speed rocket is quite fun
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Mar 17, 2011 00:51
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NipplesTheCat posted:I am assuming this is intellectual deferment. In the hopes of explaining to you why it works this way, I am quoting this guy's post so that you can read it again. Your last reply to me was 2 ad hominem attacks and then agreeing with what I said. I didn't bother to point out anyone directly as a troll but it's so nice of you to step up. As I said, say hi to the #bieks crew for me Anyways, as some others have pointed out, that's quite enough of that.  IMG_0912sized by SaNChEzZ, on Flickr Friend's SV650 racebike. Recently wadded, unfortunately. 
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Mar 17, 2011 00:53
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Z3n posted:Hyosung tried to break into the market with reasonably priced bikes and would have actually probably done very well if their bikes hadn't totally sucked. The second gen of their bikes were much better, but it was too little, too late. When your first generation of bikes is poo poo, you can't expect to build enough trust in the customer base to convince people it's a good idea the second time around. They even had their own spec race series...but the bikes bombed because of the consistent issues they had. I honestly believe they could have been contenders if they hadn't had such a lovely product, they had everything else lined up from dealer support to racing for exposure. I'm not talking about breaking into new markets, I'm talking about completely new brands. When you don't have a lot of money to back up your effort, you have to reach the break even point faster. One way to do that is by increasing your products price. EDIT: Sorry, should've previewed. Posting videos and pictures seems much nicer, yes? Instruction video with "unusual" narrative. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ft1IkFZkJts Nidhg00670000 fucked around with this message at 01:16 on Mar 17, 2011 |
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Mar 17, 2011 01:03
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Z3n posted:Your last reply to me was 2 ad hominem attacks and then agreeing with what I said. I don't think ad hominem means what you think it does. In order for that to be true, I'd have to say that your intellect was insufficient or that you were incapable of reading. I don't believe I said either. At any rate, I'll join in the picture posting fun with some bike porn: 
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Mar 17, 2011 01:05
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Thread turned into this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VYlKXcuxlOM The Motus is an unspectacular bike that's going to have an exotic price. There isn't much to argue about.
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Mar 17, 2011 01:25
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Slim Pickens posted:And the bike switches from the sport-tourer to the R version midway in, which is why the fenders disappear. The R version isn't the naked, it's still faired but has Ohlins and Brembo monoblocs. The naked one was something they knocked up to better show off the frame and motor, but are now potentially thinking about building a proper one because they've had a good response to it.
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Mar 17, 2011 01:34
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My buddy took my Indian out for a ride, said it's all good to go! 3 weeks till I can get home and take her for a ride. Do you think Indian motorcycles offend Native Americans or is it probably too far down on the list to worry about?
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Mar 17, 2011 01:35
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poo poo me, what the gently caress happened? I clearly had no idea what I was unleashing with that video.
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Mar 17, 2011 02:32
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AncientTV posted:The Motus is an unspectacular bike that's going to have an exotic price. There isn't much to argue about.  You're not allowed to have an opinion!
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Mar 17, 2011 03:03
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Coredump posted:No you don't. You hate on anything that doesn't fit your narrow confines of what you think a motorcycle should be. I'm not asking you to say the motorcycle is good just because its from the US. I'm wanting you to give it a CHANCE. But you guys already think it sucks and its not worth anything when its still a prototype. This shouldn't really be shocking to you as you've posted in the electric motorcycle thread. The same opinions posted there are being reposted here.
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Mar 17, 2011 04:02
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frozenphil posted:This shouldn't really be shocking to you as you've posted in the electric motorcycle thread. The same opinions posted there are being reposted here. CA only has enough love to care for new riders, not lovely bikes. 
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Mar 17, 2011 05:50
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How/why is a bike that only exists in the form of two prototypes lovely. Also they weren't even going to build that streetfighter one, it was built only to showcase the engine/frame but apparently they got a lot of positive feedback on it in Daytona and are now thinking about it.
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Mar 17, 2011 07:49
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So back in January I started on an entry level Motorcycle class, the class is pretty awesome and everyone either is a rider or really wants to ride, we can do work on our own bikes and use the shops lifts, tire changers, borrow tools, etc. Can also work on the school's own donated bikes, or other peoples bikes, working in teams. It's at San Francisco city college, pretty drat awesome class for about ~125$, textbook is around 50$ on amazon, i'm learning a lot and it's cool to be able to take apart other bikes and do compression tests and other things I have yet to do. Some dude's Kawasaki 125 I think, not sure what they were trying to do to it though, messing with the ignition system or something.  This girl has the cutest CB360 and it's even cuter with her on it. She was removing her somewhat ugly rear end fairing and putting on the original round headlamp on, the wiring was kinda ugly and still needs some tweaking but it was fine and ridable after.   My project for the day was to remove the GS500 wheel and put a new tire on it! Wheel removed.  Having one of these is REALLY nice, the thing on the right side breaks the bead hydraulically. It was a little tricky getting the new tire to seat in, using plenty of lube helped, definitely something you get better at if you do it a bunch of times, getting the tire off the wheel was super easy. I balanced the tire too via a static balancer but forgot to take pictures of that.  Old BT-45 on the left, new on the right, flattened to hell, about 9500 miles on it give or take, not bad, probably could have ridden it another 1000 miles easily but I tend to ride the GS500 in the rain pretty often so might as well spend the 89$ for the tire for my own safety.  This girl is cool on her 04 CBR600, it has like 46000 miles on it, still running strong, she lowslided it a few times so shes going naked on it. Girls on bikes are the hottest things ever, bonus points for Dainese jacket. Some dude's 22000$ Harley Night rod is behind the CBR  I wanted to take more pictures with all the bikes on lifts but I was kind of rushed to get my wheel/tires mounted/balanced/remounted before the end of the class so I could ride home. I'll take more next time.
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Mar 17, 2011 07:56
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1: I wanna take a class like that 2: That Dianese jacket is very flattering, if you catch my drift 3: JAVELIN SPOTTED
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Mar 17, 2011 09:51
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What the gently caress I want to take a Motorcycle maintenance class That tire balancer is more flattering than the chicks though  But most chicks I ever see on Motorcycles, especially on the back of Harleys, are pretty drat rough.   I really want to do this one day just to make people laugh. 
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Mar 17, 2011 10:35
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Z3n posted:And from your own source: Sorry, misread that one. So the kmv4 weighs just as much as the Hayabusa motor, which goes to reinforce the point there's nothing wrong with it. Either way, I like how you're argument shifts from the bike sucking because its overweight, underpowered, and over displaced to no dealer network, over priced yada yada yada. The fact is you made your mind up about this bike as soon as you heard about it.
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Mar 17, 2011 13:20
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Less moaning about how much things weigh, just lose an arm and a leg and call it even? http://vimeo.com/21101933 yea...
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Mar 17, 2011 13:26
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Coredump posted:Sorry, misread that one. So the kmv4 weighs just as much as the Hayabusa motor, which goes to reinforce the point there's nothing wrong with it. Jesus christ, shut the gently caress up. Why does it bother you so much that some people already have an opinion of it? edit: Don't actually give me an answer to that because I don't care. content: This might have been posted here I can't remember https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4Iy4DLp0WQU def snow leppard fucked around with this message at 13:58 on Mar 17, 2011 |
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Mar 17, 2011 13:47
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Clank posted:Jesus christ, shut the gently caress up. Why does it bother you so much that some people already have an opinion of it? Because for the most part they are opinions without substance.
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Mar 17, 2011 14:02
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