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The absolute worst thing you can do on a two-wheeled vehicle is to hug the sidewalk like a lot of people tend to. This sends drivers a message that you are planning on going slow and are inviting them to pass you. If you ride in the middle of the lane or even a bit to the left, you claim your place as rightful owner of that lane, and deprive them of the space to pass you even if they wanted to.
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Mar 15, 2011 16:12
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SlightlyMadman posted:The absolute worst thing you can do on a two-wheeled vehicle is to hug the sidewalk like a lot of people tend to. This sends drivers a message that you are planning on going slow and are inviting them to pass you. If you ride in the middle of the lane or even a bit to the left, you claim your place as rightful owner of that lane, and deprive them of the space to pass you even if they wanted to. I get told off for this by some cyclists. On the grounds that if you're dead it doesn't matter if you're right. At least around here, it really pisses off car drivers if you take any lane position other than "in the gutter" and they have to pass you safely and properly and not simply bulldoze through you. By that I mean not in a good way, given that you're riding a bicycle (or a scooter or something lame like that hurr) and they have a 1300+kg shitbox-cum-deadly weapon and a boundless sense of personal entitlement. So I agree with you that this works if you don't mind getting run over and/or being abused on a daily basis.
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Mar 15, 2011 16:41
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The way I see it is that if a driver is super pissed off at you, then he's at least aware you exist. I feel far more at risk of being hit accidentally by somebody who's not fully aware of me, than by getting actively murdered by somebody mad at me. On a motorcycle or scooter though, I can't see any argument against it, because you you're going fast enough to not be a major inconvenience.
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Mar 15, 2011 18:33
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Saga posted:I get told off for this by some cyclists. On the grounds that if you're dead it doesn't matter if you're right. From a decent amount of time spent bicycle riding on the road I'd say you don't ride in the gutter but maybe a metre off it, so car drivers only have to get half out of their lane to pass you. Also if you're riding a bicycle on the street make sure you're riding fast enough that you're not holding cars up too much, most drivers will understand when you slow a bit on the hills. If you can't do this, ride on the footpath (I mean who gives a flying gently caress about pedestrians really?).
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Mar 16, 2011 06:07
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Saga posted:IME this tends to happen a lot with scooters and slower bikes. Are you on a 250? It's happened to me only when riding my TY250 and my old KDX220 (top speed 45-50 on both I reckon) on open roads.. Yes I'm on a 250, though at the times when it's happened I haven't really been holding anyone up except those impatient types for whom the speed limit isn't enough. I have noticed that if drivers see an L or P plate (for learner or provisional riders) they will fall over themselves to get around you to avoid being held up by you. Again, even if you're doing the speed limit anyway. I have also had 5 or 6 cars deny me a lane change on the on-ramp of a motorway when my lane was ending - presumably so they wouldn't get held up by me. By the time I was able to merge my lane had disappeared and I was riding on the shoulder.
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Mar 16, 2011 07:19
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Here4DaGangBang posted:By the time I was able to merge my lane had disappeared and I was riding on the shoulder. Failing to see why this an issue, I would've just kept going up the shoulder (That's the only thing that makes the M5 bearable).
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Mar 16, 2011 08:08
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2ndclasscitizen posted:Failing to see why this an issue, I would've just kept going up the shoulder (That's the only thing that makes the M5 bearable). It was an issue because I was very green and 5 or 6 pricks sped up to stop me from changing lanes, despite the yellow plate on the back of my bike telling them that I'm new to this and they might want to factor that in to their behaviour. I did keep going up the shoulder until I had the space to merge, I just didn't appreciate the actions of those other drivers.
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Mar 16, 2011 09:23
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Aargh posted:From a decent amount of time spent bicycle riding on the road I'd say you don't ride in the gutter but maybe a metre off it, so car drivers only have to get half out of their lane to pass you. Also if you're riding a bicycle on the street make sure you're riding fast enough that you're not holding cars up too much, most drivers will understand when you slow a bit on the hills. If you can't do this, ride on the footpath (I mean who gives a flying gently caress about pedestrians really?). No, they like it even less around here if you're actually breaking the speed limit on a bicycle instead of riding in the gutter. When you pass them down a hill it really gets their backs up! 
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Mar 16, 2011 12:14
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Saga posted:No, they like it even less around here if you're actually breaking the speed limit on a bicycle instead of riding in the gutter. Fastest way to piss someone off in this town is to filter past them while they're stuck in rush minute traffic in the CBD.
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Mar 16, 2011 15:41
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Ephphatha posted:Fastest way to piss someone off in this town is to filter past them while they're stuck in rush minute traffic in the CBD. /\/\/\ Holy god people are weird. There's an on ramp a couple minutes from where I used to live--a huge interchange deal that people park on in the morning for no other reason than being spectacularly incompetant at merging. I lanesplit (I know it's not ok, but it's parked cars, and the commuter lane is totally empty *every* single time--there's no downside to me getting through the parking lot and on my merry way in my own lane on the other side) and at least *two* motherfuckers deliberately wiggled around in the 3 feet of space they had to try to squish me. Passive Aggressive northwesterners.
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Mar 16, 2011 17:48
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TheCosmicMuffet posted:/\/\/\ Holy god people are weird. There's an on ramp a couple minutes from where I used to live--a huge interchange deal that people park on in the morning for no other reason than being spectacularly incompetant at merging. I lanesplit (I know it's not ok, but it's parked cars, and the commuter lane is totally empty *every* single time--there's no downside to me getting through the parking lot and on my merry way in my own lane on the other side) and at least *two* motherfuckers deliberately wiggled around in the 3 feet of space they had to try to squish me. It is OK, it's just not legal in your jurisdiction! And yeah, they're being dicks. Because they obey all traffic laws, right?
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Mar 16, 2011 18:17
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I obey all traffic laws all of the time* *When my mom is following me in a car.
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Mar 16, 2011 18:23
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Saga posted:It is OK, it's just not legal in your jurisdiction! And yeah, they're being dicks. Because they obey all traffic laws, right? They maliciously tried to kill me. That's a proportional response in your mind to someone causing no threat or inconvenience whatsoever, except in some kind of abstract world where, if someone gets away with something then god turns his eyes from your land and your crops wither?
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Mar 16, 2011 18:27
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I think he meant they are being dicks cause they are trying to kill you for breaking a law when they themselves break it all the time
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Mar 16, 2011 18:39
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Bondematt posted:I think he meant they are being dicks cause they are trying to kill you for breaking a law when they themselves break it all the time I used to work with a guy and he stated that if he was stuck on the highway and a motorcyclist split lanes he would 100% without a doubt throw open a car door to stop him, even if it meant putting the motorcyclist's life in danger. It wasn't a good thing for him to say considering he sat right next to three motorcyclists.
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Mar 16, 2011 21:06
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Haha, so how many doors did his car have left by the end of the day?
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Mar 16, 2011 21:09
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SlightlyMadman posted:Haha, so how many doors did his car have left by the end of the day? I'm in Metro Detroit. You don't lane split here unless you want to eat a car door. (or be shot, or run off the road, or chased, or...)
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Mar 16, 2011 21:15
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Clearly the solution is to just eliminate lane markings so everyone can make their own lanes.
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Mar 16, 2011 21:20
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Crayvex posted:I used to work with a guy and he stated that if he was stuck on the highway and a motorcyclist split lanes he would 100% without a doubt throw open a car door to stop him, even if it meant putting the motorcyclist's life in danger. It wasn't a good thing for him to say considering he sat right next to three motorcyclists. And despite sticking his foot in his mouth and being asked "So you would try to murder someone just because they were lane splitting" he wouldn't back down.  And then there was the guy who claimed he raced and beat motorcycles in his stock Miata.
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Mar 16, 2011 22:31
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Doctor Zero posted:And despite sticking his foot in his mouth and being asked "So you would try to murder someone just because they were lane splitting" he wouldn't back down. Maybe he meant the army diesel.
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Mar 17, 2011 03:24
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Russian Bear posted:Clearly the solution is to just eliminate lane markings so everyone can make their own lanes. Welcome to Thailand.
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Mar 17, 2011 03:25
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Crayvex posted:I used to work with a guy and he stated that if he was stuck on the highway and a motorcyclist split lanes he would 100% without a doubt throw open a car door to stop him, even if it meant putting the motorcyclist's life in danger. It wasn't a good thing for him to say considering he sat right next to three motorcyclists. I don't understand this. They open their door and then what? They've got a pissed-off rider right next to them, wearing a helmet and amoured gloves and clothing, and have just removed the barrier stopping said rider throttling them for sheer idiocy.
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Mar 17, 2011 03:41
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2ndclasscitizen posted:I don't understand this. They open their door and then what? They've got a pissed-off rider right next to them, wearing a helmet and amoured gloves and clothing, and have just removed the barrier stopping said rider throttling them for sheer idiocy. Not to mention that a motorcycle moving 10-20mph doesn't stop instantly. What are you going to do when the door funnels the bike and/or rider into your lap?
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Mar 17, 2011 05:48
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Bondematt posted:I think he meant they are being dicks cause they are trying to kill you for breaking a law when they themselves break it all the time Yup. "How dare you filter past my car!" *changes lane without indicating or checking blind spot* *fails to maintain safe following distance* *fails to obey priority rules at junction due to lack of clue* etc etc.
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Mar 17, 2011 13:10
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2ndclasscitizen posted:I don't understand this. They open their door and then what? They've got a pissed-off rider right next to them, wearing a helmet and amoured gloves and clothing, and have just removed the barrier stopping said rider throttling them for sheer idiocy. You have to understand that this guy is an ex-army intelligence officer who was as conservative as they come. It was a really weird discussion that stopped being civil pretty quickly. Hey, I get pissed off by people who ignore traffic laws all the time regardless if I'm in a cage or on my bike, but I don't run people off the road or whatever. I have to admit that many bikers do poo poo that piss people off: - Loud baby waking ear bleeding pipes - Darting through traffic - Popping wheelies - Being all around awesome which fills the cagers with jealousy
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Mar 17, 2011 14:01
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Crayvex posted:I have to admit that many bikers do poo poo that piss people off: Check... check... check... check... gently caress, I'm a squid 
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Mar 17, 2011 14:11
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Crayvex posted:You have to understand that this guy is an ex-army intelligence officer who was as conservative as they come. It was a really weird discussion that stopped being civil pretty quickly. Hey, I get pissed off by people who ignore traffic laws all the time regardless if I'm in a cage or on my bike, but I don't run people off the road or whatever. The thing that frustrates me about that argument is that nothing is stopping anyone from riding a motorcycle. If you are capable of driving a car, you are capable of riding a motorcycle. There's a whole group of people out there who are dedicated riders with assorted physical disabilities. If they're so pissed about it, why don't they buy a bike and lane split? I'm convinced that some people just feel like they're being called pussies by every rider that splits by, because they always wanted to ride but figure they can't for some reason.
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Mar 17, 2011 18:30
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Z3n posted:The thing that frustrates me about that argument is that nothing is stopping anyone from riding a motorcycle. If you are capable of driving a car, you are capable of riding a motorcycle. There's a whole group of people out there who are dedicated riders with assorted physical disabilities. Many are bitter because their wives "won't let them" and they don't have the stones to man up and do it.
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Mar 17, 2011 19:15
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Z3n posted:The thing that frustrates me about that argument is that nothing is stopping anyone from riding a motorcycle. If you are capable of driving a car, you are capable of riding a motorcycle. There's a whole group of people out there who are dedicated riders with assorted physical disabilities. I don't think this is true. Yes, it's in the realm of possibility, but you can be 3 sheets to the wind stoned and drunk and drive for years before it catches you (not that I advocate it, just that there's a pile of hammered people in pickups streaming out of bars every night, but not a consistent smoking pile of wreckage near aforementioned bars), just because a car is a big stable, heavy thing that can slide around and doesn't care about your posture much in comparison to the whole vehicle. You can even afford to get hit by someone if you're the dumbass who's nominally in 'front' since as far as everyone is concerned, it's the fault of the person who ran into you if you're facing vaguely away from them. It's even true, which just means you can be pretty physically aggressive with your car and people have to give way. You can't half rear end riding a bike. Even completely sober alot of people wipe out more than once over basically nothing. It's not a great value proposition. At least half the reason I got into it was because I thought it was more involving and required more skill and care than driving a car (which was getting boring--especially with all the speed traps). I get that it's not a realistic option to tell people 'if you don't like it, give up power, safety, and comfort to get persecuted just like you're doing to me'. It's just a prisoner's dilemma, except the people in the cages are in control.  heh. K. I'm done.
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Mar 17, 2011 19:24
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TheCosmicMuffet posted:I don't think this is true. Yes, it's in the realm of possibility, but you can be 3 sheets to the wind stoned and drunk and drive for years before it catches you (not that I advocate it, just that there's a pile of hammered people in pickups streaming out of bars every night, but not a consistent smoking pile of wreckage near aforementioned bars), just because a car is a big stable, heavy thing that can slide around and doesn't care about your posture much in comparison to the whole vehicle. You can even afford to get hit by someone if you're the dumbass who's nominally in 'front' since as far as everyone is concerned, it's the fault of the person who ran into you if you're facing vaguely away from them. It's even true, which just means you can be pretty physically aggressive with your car and people have to give way. Yeah but if you're driving drunk or whatever you're a loving retard anyways. And it's amazing how many people halfass riding a motorcycle yet somehow get away with it anyways. I see where you're going with your post and honestly, if people aren't willing to take responsibility, raging out against those who do is just childish...but I guess that's expected.
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Mar 17, 2011 19:33
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Sure. But it's a fundamental mechanism of human nature. The natural tyranny of talent (and I'm not claiming I'm ultra talented, but, in the abstract, the reactions of a child drunk on beer could conceivably be equivalent to the reactions of a 70 year old--and there is enough variation between people that two identical adults could have the same disparity in their competence at dealing with a vehicle--they can get away with it in a car, and not on a bike (past some certain arbitrary threshold--you get my point)) can create an upside down world where its the majority's interest to marginalize the exceptional and employ all the tools that people use to push down and consume minorities. Like it's not childish. It's actually universal and impossible to fix. One of the reasons the upper classes engages in this bullshit mindwar about 'class warriors' being commie pinko whackjobs, is because, at any moment, if the greater population could really nail down the wealthy as a monolithic group, and recognize their difference and numerical advantage, they'd lose all the permission they have right now that allows them to lead ludicrously opulent lifestyles (subsidized by the majority). On a bike, you never make it more obvious how different you are than when you do something that a car can't do. What's funny is that, even given that there is a real power-differential here, it's always the minority who gets hosed--for instance, bus drivers and semi drivers are always pissed at how much they get hosed with by cars. They get cut off or prevented from changing lanes, until they have to force the issue, and then the car plays the victim. I think 'pretend you're invisible' cuts both ways. Count on being impossible to see, and do your best not to be noticed too much, or you might trigger an rear end in a top hat episode. Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles.
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Mar 17, 2011 20:45
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quote:I think 'pretend you're invisible' cuts both ways. Count on being impossible to see, and do your best not to be noticed too much, or you might trigger an rear end in a top hat episode. And that's why I run a stock exhaust. Viva la revolution!
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Mar 17, 2011 21:10
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Z3n posted:And that's why I run a stock exhaust. Viva la revolution! I've got a stock pipe bike and a loud pipe bike and I've never been run into. My results prove motorcycling makes you invulnerable to idiot drivers.
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Mar 17, 2011 21:23
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I have found that mentioning how long you've ridden without being hit by a car or truck is bad luck...
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Mar 17, 2011 22:00
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Shiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiit. Looks like mostly just fairing damage, I hope? You ok?
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Mar 17, 2011 22:36
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Crayvex posted:I have found that mentioning how long you've ridden without being hit by a car or truck is bad luck... I didn't say how long I've been riding, only that I'm impervious to cars. Totally different. 
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Mar 17, 2011 22:57
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My accident happened several years ago, but it did follow shortly after a self righteous comment about how a conspicuous bike + conservative riding would make me less likely to crash. I repaired my old Copasaki and sold it after I bought my Yamaha R6 and never looked back. All I'm trying to say is that don't anger the motorcycle gods.
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Mar 18, 2011 02:04
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Had my first "Crash" tonight. Old people ran right into me at a stoplight. I was in the right lane at a red light about to turn right, waiting for traffic perpendicular to me to clear. I was watching the rear mirrors and saw them not looking, but couldn't go anywhere. I tried to hop off the bike, but only got halfway off before the impact...throwing me off slightly to the right side. It's a ninja 250, and doesn't really stop well at all anymore. Also...doesn't exactly go straight either  I was in full leathers so no rash or anything. There's not really a lesson here...just me venting at people who don't look in front of them when driving a big SUV. I really hope insurance doesn't total out the bike .
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Mar 18, 2011 04:42
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Good to hear that you made it out unscathed, but that's a shame about the bike How fast were they going when they hit you?
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Mar 18, 2011 05:24
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About 15 MPH. I got chucked off a good bit. Neither of them spoke English well...and when the police arrived they tried to blame it on me. They said "He was coming from the (perpendicular street) and shot right in front of us. I just about said "Liar!"...but the cop pulled me aside and said "Don't worry...it's pretty obviously their fault..." Physically though, leathers and helmet did their job!
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Mar 18, 2011 05:44
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