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kimbo305
Jun 9, 2007

actually, yeah, I am a little mad

Mardragon posted:

125 lbs - A weight that is pretty wide open, the guys at the top are pretty established, one of whom has a gimmick that is pretty hard to train against. I'd pretty confident you will see the #2 or #3 seed out of the bottom, who knows about the top of the bracket.

#1 Anthony Robles Arizona State, Sr. - So we'll start with the most interesting story, and one that will sweep over the country if he wins. Anthony Robles is a one-legged wrestler, and a two time All-American. He has the upper body of a 185 lbs wrestler

I've been dwelling on this -- is the 185 a loose guess? Is it a pre-cut weight? Or is it really the case that his missing leg sheds 60lbs of weight, roughly 1/3 the body weight?

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Mardragon
Mar 4, 2004
Cinderella boy... Out of nowhere...
Yam Slacker

Xguard86 posted:

This is, this is my horse in the race. Go Guard Pulling Gophers!

Question: how much weight do these guys typically cut? Like if I weigh 155-165 what weight class is closest to my size?

Depends, probably 141 or 149. They are probably dropping 10ish pounds at that weight, although the extreme weight cutters will go as far as 15. By this point in the season the cuts are pretty easy though, your body is mostly used to it and you've settled alot of the weight cutting problems. Weight cutting in college wrestling is done quite a bit before the season to get ready, then during the season your body settles in and what was a 10 pound cut is now more like a 3 or 5 pound cut. Don't think for a moment it's healthy, but it's not as hard as say MMA or random jiu-jitsu tournaments where you are cutting just that one time. If you do it alot it becomes less of an issue.

Mardragon
Mar 4, 2004
Cinderella boy... Out of nowhere...
Yam Slacker

kimbo305 posted:

I've been dwelling on this -- is the 185 a loose guess? Is it a pre-cut weight? Or is it really the case that his missing leg sheds 60lbs of weight, roughly 1/3 the body weight?

Not having a leg is a huge deal, but his other leg also isn't that big. Take a look at the videos he has a very strong core and upper body. I don't know that he cuts weight at all. 185 is probably a loose guess but I'd say at least 165 here's a couple comparison shots against other 125's:



Here's Mack Lewnes (174):


Chris Honeycutt (184):

Thoguh
Nov 8, 2002

College Slice

Xguard86 posted:

This is, this is my horse in the race. Go Guard Pulling Gophers!

Question: how much weight do these guys typically cut? Like if I weigh 155-165 what weight class is closest to my size?

They have severely restricted weight cutting in the past decade or so, in the past you'd likely be looking at 125 or 133. Nowadays weight cutting has to be more gradual (You're only allowed to lose like 1.5% of your body weight in a week, or something like that) and they do hydration testing.

That being said, guys still do a lot of weight cutting, just not to the suicidal level people did in years past. It's pretty comparable to what an MMA guy will do. For example, our 165 pounder walks around at about 200 in the offseason.

Xguard86
Nov 22, 2004

"You don't understand his pain. Everywhere he goes he sees women working, wearing pants, speaking in gatherings, voting. Surely they will burn in the white hot flames of Hell"

Thoguh posted:

They have severely restricted weight cutting in the past decade or so, in the past you'd likely be looking at 125 or 133. Nowadays weight cutting has to be more gradual (You're only allowed to lose like 1.5% of your body weight in a week, or something like that) and they do hydration testing.

That being said, guys still do a lot of weight cutting, just not to the suicidal level people did in years past. It's pretty comparable to what an MMA guy will do. For example, our 165 pounder walks around at about 200 in the offseason.

Good lord. I'm 6ft 1, 160-ish with 6-8% body fat, I can't imagine the kind of diet and then water cutting it would take to reach a competitive weight. Granted I look more like a Wide Receiver or point guard than a wrestler or MMA fighter.

Side note: I wanted to wrestle as a kid, but my uncle was a college wrestler so my dad knew all about the weight shenanigans and said no way. If I ever have kids, I think I would make the same choice. Kind of sad since cutting weight is not actually related to grappling skill, but it's still a part of the sport.

Diquebutt
Feb 17, 2011

by Fistgrrl
I'm far from being familiar with collegiate wrestling, but do they have "inbetween" weight classes, i.e. having 185/195/205 as opposed to 185/205?

Thoguh
Nov 8, 2002

College Slice

Xguard86 posted:

Good lord. I'm 6ft 1, 160-ish with 6-8% body fat, I can't imagine the kind of diet and then water cutting it would take to reach a competitive weight. Granted I look more like a Wide Receiver or point guard than a wrestler or MMA fighter.

If you're already that low on bodyfat you wouldn't be able to cut too much. I'm not sure what the level is for college, but high school was right around 6 or 8 percent. I can't imagine it is much lower for college. So there is an absolute minimum you can get away with between your fat percentage and hydration level. So you'd probably be looking more at like 149. 20-30 years ago you would have been cutting a lot more though.

Thoguh fucked around with this message at 22:16 on Mar 16, 2011

Mardragon
Mar 4, 2004
Cinderella boy... Out of nowhere...
Yam Slacker

Xguard86 posted:

Good lord. I'm 6ft 1, 160-ish with 6-8% body fat, I can't imagine the kind of diet and then water cutting it would take to reach a competitive weight. Granted I look more like a Wide Receiver or point guard than a wrestler or MMA fighter.

Side note: I wanted to wrestle as a kid, but my uncle was a college wrestler so my dad knew all about the weight shenanigans and said no way. If I ever have kids, I think I would make the same choice. Kind of sad since cutting weight is not actually related to grappling skill, but it's still a part of the sport.

In all fairness there has been significant crackdown and elimination of the weight cutting in the last decade or so. But yea it's a problem and a stigma assoiciated with the sport. But if that's your body type you'd get to cut a little bit of body weight but probably not anything more than 5 pounds or so.

always be closing
Jul 16, 2005

Xguard86 posted:

This is, this is my horse in the race. Go Guard Pulling Gophers!

Question: how much weight do these guys typically cut? Like if I weigh 155-165 what weight class is closest to my size?

prob 135

Thoguh
Nov 8, 2002

College Slice

OrangeCrush posted:

prob 135

The weight classes in college (which you could also see from Mandragon's posts on this and the last page), are:
125/133/141/149/157/165/174/184/197/285

For High School they are:
103/112/119/125/130/135/140/145/152/160/171/189/215/275

Thoguh fucked around with this message at 00:37 on Mar 17, 2011

Chortles
Dec 29, 2008
Re: cutting weight -- I'm reminded of the infamous Michael Kirkham incident where a MMA fighter died in his pro debut... and quite a few people wondering what the commission was doing allowing him to compete at only 155 despite being 6-foot-9.

Thoguh
Nov 8, 2002

College Slice
Man, the night before NCAA's is like Christmas Eve. I can't wait for the next three days! This is far and away the biggest diseased innapropriate touching competition in the country.

Grifter
Jul 24, 2003

I do this technique called a suplex. You probably haven't heard of it, it's pretty obscure.
How tall is your typical 125er? I can only imagine them as micro-dudes.

the yellow dart
Jul 19, 2004

King of rings, armlocks, hugs, and our hearts

Grifter posted:

How tall is your typical 125er? I can only imagine them as micro-dudes.

If Benavidez is only 5'3" I imagine you are correct. Although I would love to see Corey Hill drop another 30 lbs.

Thoguh
Nov 8, 2002

College Slice
Here's how thing stand after Session 1 this morning. A few seeded guys went down, but no huge first round upsets. Since they haven't had the first round conselations yet these team scores are kind of misleading.

The ESPN3 streams worked really well this morning, I reccomend everybody give it a watch for Session 2 tonight. Wrestling starts at 6:30 EDT and will probably go for around 3 hours.


NCAA Wrestling Results posted:

Team Scores
1. Penn State: 20
2. Iowa: 18
3. Cornell: 16.5
4. Wisconsin: 15
5. Minnesota, Oklahoma State: 14

125
#1 Anthony Robles (Arizona State) v. US Steven Keith (Harvard)
#8 Jarrod Patterson (Oklahoma) v. US Mark Rappo (Penn)
#5 Zach Sanders (Minnesota) v. #12 Jarrod Garnett (Virginia Tech)
#4 James Nicholson (Old Dominion) v. US Ben Kjar (Utah Valley)
#3 Brandon Precin (Northwestern) v. US Joey Langel (Rutgers)
#6 Nic Bedelyon (Kent State) v. #11 Frank Perrelli (Cornell)
#7 Ryan Mango (Stanford) v. US Anthony Zanetta (Pittsburgh)
#2 Matt McDonough (Iowa) v. US Sean Boyle (Michigan)

133
#1 Jordan Oliver (Oklahoma State) v. US Levi Mele (Northwestern)
#8 Mike Grey (Cornell) v. #9 Devin Carter (Virginia Tech)
#5 Lou Ruggirello (Hofstra) v. #12 Kyle Hutter (Old Dominion)
#4 Tyler Graff (Wisconsin) v. US Fred Santaite (Boston)
#3 Andrew Long (Penn State) v. US David Thorn (Minnesota)
#6 Tony Ramos (Iowa) v. #11 Scott Sentes (Central Michigan)
#7 BJ Futrell (Illinois) v. US Flint Ray (Utah Valley)
#2 Andrew Hochstrasser (Boise State) v. US Kevin Smith (Buffalo)

141
#1 Kellen Russell (Michigan) v. US Michael Mangrum (Oregon State)
#8 Zack Bailey (Oklahoma) v. #9 Cole VonOhlen (Air Force)
#5 Montell Marion (Iowa) v. US Zack Kemmerer (Penn)
#4 Jimmy Kennedy (Illinois) v. US Chris Diaz (Virginia Tech)
#3 Boris Novachkov (Cal Poly) v. US Matt Bonson (Lock Haven)
#6 Andrew Alton (Penn State) v. #11 Matt Mariacher (American)
#7 Tyler Nauman (Pittsburgh) v. #10 Todd Schavrien (Missouri)
#2 Mike Thorn (Minnesota) v. US Nick Nelson (Virginia)

149
#1 Darrion Caldwell (NC State) v. US Eric Grajales (Michigan)
#8 Ganbayar Sanjaa (American) v. US Cole Schmitt (Wisconsin)
#5 Jamal Parks (Oklahoma State) v. US Eric Terrazas (Illinois)
#4 Kyle Dake (Cornell) v. US Torsten Gillespie (Edinboro)
#3 Kevin LeValley (Bucknell) v. US Scott Sakaguchi (Oregon State)
#6 Jason Chamberlain (Boise State) v. US Joey Napoli (Lehigh)
#7 Mario Mason (Rutgers) v. #10 Kurt Kinser (Indiana)
#2 Frank Molinaro (Penn State) v. US Derek Valenti (Virginia)

157
#1 Adam Hall (Boise State) v. US Colton Salazar (Purdue)
#8 Jason Welch (Northwestern) v. #9 James Fleming (Clarion)
#5 Jesse Dong (Virginia Tech) v. #12 Paul Young (Indiana)
#4 Bubba Jenkins (Arizona State) v. US Mark Lewandowski (Buffalo)
#3 David Taylor (Penn State) v. US David Bonin (Northern Iowa)
#6 Derek St. John (Iowa) v. #11 Walter Peppelman (Harvard)
#7 Bryce Saddoris v. #10 Daryl Cocozzo (Rutgers)
#2 Steve Fittery (American) v. US Johnny Greisheimer (Edinboro)

165
#1 Jordan Burroughs (Nebraska) v. US Justin Lister (Binghamton)
#8 Scott Winston (Rutgers) v. #9 Justin Kerber (Cornell)
#5 Colt Sponseller (Ohio State) v. US Eren Civan (Columbia)
#4 Josh Asper (Maryland) v. US Stephen Burak (Penn)
#3 Tyler Caldwell (Oklahoma) v. US Donnie Jones (West Virginia)
US Peter Yates (Virginia Tech) v. US Paul Gillespie (Hofstra)
#7 Shane Onufer (Wyoming) v. US Jim Resnick (Rider)
#2 Andrew Howe (Wisconsin) v. US Brandon Hatchett (Lehigh)

174
#1 Jon Reader (Iowa State) v. US Luke Manuel (Purdue)
#8 Mike Letts (Maryland) v. #9 Ethen Lofthouse (Iowa)
#5 Chris Henrich (Virginia) v. #12 Mike Benefiel (Oklahoma State)
#4 Colby Covington (Oregon State) v. US Jake Swartz (Boise State)
#3 Mack Lewnes (Cornell) v. US Nick Purdue (Ohio)
#6 Ben Bennett (Central Michigan) v. US Curran Jacobs (Michigan State)
#7 Nick Amuchastegui (Stanford) v. #10 Nick Heflin (Ohio State)
#2 Ed Ruth (Penn State) v. US Scott Glasser (Minnesota)

184
#1 Chris Honeycutt (Edinboro) v. US Luke Rebertus (Navy)
#8 Kevin Steinhaus (Minnesota) v. #9 Quentin Wright (Penn State)
#5 Joe LeBlanc (Wyoming) v. #12 Grant Gambrall (Iowa)
#4 Travis Rutt (Wisconsin) v. US Max Thomusseit (Pittsburgh)
#3 Steve Bosak (Cornell) v. US Jake Meredith (Arizona State)
#6 Ryan Loder (Northern Iowa) v. Diego Bencomo (Duke)
#7 Chris Perry (Oklahoma State) v. #10 Josh Ihnen (Nebraska)
#2 Robert Hamlin (Lehigh) v. US Dan Rinaldi (Rutgers)

197
#1 Cam Simaz (Cornell) v. US Andy Johnson (Nebraska)
#8 Matt Powless (Indiana) v. #9 Sonny Yohn (Minnesota)
#5 Luke Lofthouse (Iowa) v. #12 Zack Giesen (Stanford)
#4 Dustin Kilgore (Kent State) v. US Jay Hahn (Bucknell)
#3 Trevor Brandvold (Wisconsin) v. US John Hall (Boston)
#6 Micah Burak (Penn) v. #11 Jerome Ward (Iowa State)
#7 Zac Thomusseit (Pittsburgh) v. #10 Logan Brown (Purdue)
#2 Clayton Foster (Oklahoma State) v. US Joe Kennedy (Lehigh)

285
#1 Zach Rey (Lehigh) v. US David Marone (Virginia Tech)
#8 Tony Nelson (Minnesota) v. #9 Cameron Wade (Penn State)
#5 Dom Bradley (Missouri) v. #12 Eric Bugenhagen (Wisconsin)
US Levi Cooper (Arizona State) v. US Joseph Rizqallah (Michigan State)
#3 Ryan Flores (American) v. US Kevin Lester (Columbia)
#11 Tucker Lane (Nebraska) v. US Brendan Barlow (Kent State)
#7 Blake Rasing (Iowa) v. #10 Nathan Fernandez (Oklahoma)
#2 Jarod Trice (Central Michigan) v. US Ricky Alcala (Indiana)

dokomoy
May 21, 2004
The IBJJF Pan Jiu Jitsu Tournament(which is a stupid name btw) is streaming next weekend at budovideos.com(I think it's going to cost 10 bucks and there should be 10+ hours worth of matches). Does anyone have any interest in a write up like the one Mardragon did for the NCAA's?

Mardragon
Mar 4, 2004
Cinderella boy... Out of nowhere...
Yam Slacker
Darrion Caldwell lost by injury default, hurt his elbow.

fatherdog
Feb 16, 2005

dokomoy posted:

The IBJJF Pan Jiu Jitsu Tournament(which is a stupid name btw) is streaming next weekend at budovideos.com(I think it's going to cost 10 bucks and there should be 10+ hours worth of matches). Does anyone have any interest in a write up like the one Mardragon did for the NCAA's?

Absolutely.

Grab Your Foot!
Apr 24, 2007

The struggle itself towards the heights is enough to fill a man's heart. One must imagine Sisyphus happy.
Echoing interest in a writeup.

always be closing
Jul 16, 2005
my god these pan ams! so excited!!!!

Angora
Feb 16, 2009

by Ozmaugh
edit: wrong thread.


But I would definitely read a write-up.

dokomoy
May 21, 2004
Registration officially ended yesterday, but brackets won't be out until probably Tuesday, however in the interest of my sanity(I'm competing and am going to be a bit of a wreck by Tuesday or Wednesday) I'll do most of the write up over the next few days and then make my medal picks next week.

Xguard86
Nov 22, 2004

"You don't understand his pain. Everywhere he goes he sees women working, wearing pants, speaking in gatherings, voting. Surely they will burn in the white hot flames of Hell"
I think a couple guys from my academy are going as well. No one famous or at black belt though, so I doubt I'll see them in your writeup.

Mardragon
Mar 4, 2004
Cinderella boy... Out of nowhere...
Yam Slacker
The 184 semis have a #9 and #12 seed vs each other. Also Ed Ruth lost because his opponent used an illegal ride a couple times that the ref didn't call and he had an injury default, real shame.

fawker
Feb 1, 2008

ARMBAR!
Im looking to buy My Very First Gi.
Internet research so far has led me to two choices.

1) Padilla & Sons
2)Shoyoroll

For the Padilla and Sons gi, I've basically read that its best value for money spent, and the guy that runs the business at http://www.matrat.us/ loves to get in touch with customers personally to meet their needs etc...


Shoyoroll, I havent been able to find pricing/gis at all online anywhere. Does anyone have more information RE: where I could buy them or at least check out pricing?

Does anyone here have experience with any of these two companies, or experience with any brands they would LOVE to recommend to a noob? Thanks!

colonel_korn
May 16, 2003

I have a Padilla & Sons one, I bought it second-hand though so I don't have any experience dealing with the company. But I have heard that their customer service is top notch. It's a great gi, the only possible drawback I would mention is that it's pretty heavy with a really thick collar, so if you want a lighter-weight gi then it's probably not for you.

dokomoy
May 21, 2004

fawker posted:

Im looking to buy My Very First Gi.
Internet research so far has led me to two choices.

1) Padilla & Sons
2)Shoyoroll

For the Padilla and Sons gi, I've basically read that its best value for money spent, and the guy that runs the business at http://www.matrat.us/ loves to get in touch with customers personally to meet their needs etc...


Shoyoroll, I havent been able to find pricing/gis at all online anywhere. Does anyone have more information RE: where I could buy them or at least check out pricing?

Does anyone here have experience with any of these two companies, or experience with any brands they would LOVE to recommend to a noob? Thanks!

Except for during pre sale your not finding shoyoroll for less than 250 on ebay

Thoguh
Nov 8, 2002

College Slice

Mardragon posted:

The 184 semis have a #9 and #12 seed vs each other. Also Ed Ruth lost because his opponent used an illegal ride a couple times that the ref didn't call and he had an injury default, real shame.

Yeah, you hate to see guys go down to injury at the NCAAs

Lovecrusher
Sep 10, 2003
Leviathan

fawker posted:

Does anyone here have experience with any of these two companies, or experience with any brands they would LOVE to recommend to a noob? Thanks!

I've got the old cheapy white Padilla&Sons... Very durable, very washable. I wish the collar was a bit thicker, but for 60 bucks I wouldn't hesitate to buy it again. All good for going on 2 years now. I almost ordered a goldweave from them but by the time it came in I had moved miles from my gym. Joe Padilla was great at keeping me up to date and responded promptly to every request I had.

dokomoy
May 21, 2004
As I mentioned previously, the IBJJF Pan Ams is one of the biggest BJJ tournaments in the world. While the field has shrunken over the last few years both at the lower levels(2 years ago there were like 80 guys in the division I'm entering, this year it's closer to 40) and at blackbelt were many guys are either focusing on the World Championships in May(Roger Grace, Marcelo Garcia, Kayron Gracie etc) and some guys(Rodrigo Cavaca, Rafael Lovato, Cyborg Abreu and others) are saving themselves for next months Abu Dhabi World Pro which is considered by some to be less prestigous than the Pan Ams but is backed by a different prince than ADCC and offers real prize money. With all that said there are a lot of really good guys and the absence of some favorites means many divisions are wide open.

For each division I'll highlight some of the guys I think have a strong shot at a medal and the person I think will take home gold.

Note on weights: competitors weigh in with there gi right before the start of there first match

Rooster(up to 126.5 lbs)3 Competitors

Bruno Malfacine and Caio Terra have won every important tournament in this division over the last 3 or four years but both of them are competing at light feather this year. With those two out of the way former world champion Felipe Costa(Brasa team) is a heavy favorite.

Light Feather(up to 141 lbs) 11 competitors

This should be an exciting division with a handful of guys having strong shots at grabbing a medal or winning. Bruno Malfacine(Alliance), Caio Terra(Cesar Gracie), Laercio Fernandes(Lotus Club) and Carlos Vieira Holanda(Checkmat BJJ) have all taken home a medal from the worlds or pan ams over the last few years. Lets break them down a little

Bruno Malfacine: Bruno is a 3 time world champion at rooster, and this is his second time competing at light feather after taking a silver to Ary Farias at the European Open in January(part 1 part 2). Bruno is one of my favorite competitors to watch because in addition to having a strong guard like all the lighter weight guys have he is an incredible guard passer, unfortunately he's often one of the smaller rooster weights and I think his size will really hurt him here.

Caio Terra: Caio is a former world champion at rooster weight, but he's had some pretty good success at light feather(finishing second at last years Pan Ams) he also went on a tear last year winning multiple absolute divisions at some of the smaller IBJJF events last year. Caio's size isn't as big of a disadvantage as Bruno's but it's still there, however Caio's guard is basically unpassable and he has nasty leg locks. Caio drat near won this division last year and I think he's got a pretty good shot at doing it again.

Carlos Holanda Vieria is the guy who beat Caio Terra last year to win the light feather division at the pan ams. That match was really close and I wish I could find a copy of it online. Carlos is another guy best known for his guard(supposedly it's never been passed in competition at black belt, I've never seen anyone pass his guard).

Laercio Fernandes: To be honest I don't know much about him, but he beat Caio Terra in the finals of last years US Nationals, and to me thats enough to make him a real credible threat.

Here's some videos of these guys in action

Bruno Malfacine vs Laercio Fernandes from earlier this year: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OV1IC4a-aKM

Caio Terra 2009 Las Vegas Open Absolute highlights http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MPz6-GRyErs

Laercio Fernandes vs Sebastian Lalli http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KWTPuc6SHbo

And I couldn't find a single video of Carlos Vieira in action online.

Unless they meet up early in the division those are the four guys I expect to medal. All four guys are capable of beating each other, but I'm going to give a slight advantage to Vieira because he's not undersized like Terra and Malfacine and he's got more experience than Fernandes.

Thoguh
Nov 8, 2002

College Slice
NCAA Finals tonight. 7:30 EDT on ESPN. Everyone should watch this rather than the UFC pre-lims. It'll be way more fun. Penn State has the team title wrapped up, but there is a lot of action to watch anyways.

Here's the line-ups:

125: #1 Anthony Robles (Arizona State) v. #2 Matt McDonough (Iowa)

McDonough is the returning champion and Robles is the feel good story. Robles is undeafeated and McDonough has avenged his only loss. I think this one will come down to whether or not McDonough has the right gameplan to avoid Robles' upper body strength. My prediction is McDonough will get this one.

133: #1 Jordan Oliver (Oklahoma State) v. #2 Andrew Hochstrasser (Boise State)

Hochstrasser only one loss on the season... a 2-5 decision by Oliver in February. I give this one to Oliver.

141: #1 Kellen Russell (Michigan) v. #3 Boris Novachkov (Cal Poly)

Russel is undefeated and Novachkov has one loss, falling to Russel 2-3 back in December. This one is a tough call, but I have to give Russel the edge based on their last match. Wouldn't be suprised to see Boris pull it out though.

149: #2 Frank Molinaro (Penn State) v. #4 Kyle Dake (Cornell)

The only direct battle between the top two teams. Both guys have two losses, but Dake won 1-0 at the Southern Scuffle. This will be another close one, but I'll give it to Dake because I don't mind seeing Penn State lose a match.

157: #3 David Taylor (Penn State) v. #4 Bubba Jenkins (Arizona State)

Taylor is the anointed one, the heir to Cael Sanderson's legacy. Unless he gets Freshman jitters I can't see Taylor not winning this one.

165: #1 Jordan Burroughs (Nebraska) v. #3 Tyler Caldwell (Oklahoma)

Burroughs is a beast who has the best double leg in the country. Caldwell has lost twice to Burroughs this year but seems to have figured out how to defend against that shot. I give this one to Burroughs, but it'll likely be very close.

174: #1 Jon Reader (Iowa State) v. #7 Nick Amuchastegui (Stanford)

I'm an Iowa State guy, and Reader is carrying our flame, so I can't bet against him here. But Amuchastegui is very talented and is having one hell of a tournament and only has one loss all year. I'll be holding my breath the whole seven minutes. Go Cyclones!

184: #2 Robert Hamlin (Lehigh) v. #9 Quentin Wright (Penn State)

Hamlin won 3-2 when they met in December. Wright is another guy having a hell of a tournament though, so I have to give this one wo Wright.

197: #2 Clayton Foster (Oklahoma State) v. #4 Dustin Kilgore (Kent State)

I don't know much about either of these guys, so I'll go with the undefeated Foster.

285: #1 Zach Rey (Lehigh) v. #3 Ryan Flores (American)

These guys are pretty familiar with each other, in their 3 matches so far this season Rey has won twice. They've always been close but I have to give Rey the edge here.

dokomoy
May 21, 2004
Feather weight(up to 150 lbs)

Feather weight is traditionally one of the most exciting divisions because it's stacked with excellent competitors using aggressive jiu jitsu. This years division is going to own because it's going to piss a lot of people off for several reasons, one of which has a chance of being a major factor in how this division plays out.

The first thing that pisses people off is 50/50(if you're not aware of what 50/50 is it's the position the guy starts on the bottom with in this video. 50/50 pisses guys off for several reasons, all of them dumb. Some people don't like the position because they say it's not applicable to self defense, those people are mostly right, but a lot of tournament jiu jitsu isn't self defense applicable so I don't think this is a particularly good point. The other reason people don't like 50/50 is they consider it a stalling position to me there are two problems with this idea, the first is 50/50 is one of the strongest positions in terms of sweeping people in jiu jitsu, the second is that while people can stall in 50/50 you can stall in almost any position(sometimes when I'm really tired I pull spider guard and sit there for 5 minutes not trying to do anything, but that's my fault not spider guards fault). The 50/50 debate has been done to death and I'm not interested in having it again, but I feel like it's worth touching on because your going to see it a lot and it's still somewhat controversial.

The second issue has to do with team mates refusing to fight team mates. Just like in MMA many of the best fighters belong to the same team and many of them refuse to fight each other. However in Jiu Jitsu it's slightly more complicated for a couple reasons, first with most tournaments not paying competitors it's hard to force guys to compete against each other when they don't want to and secondly since jiu jitsu competitions work in a tournament format team mates are inevitably going to meet up. The IBJJF has made several rules to try and make this into a smaller issue, first each "team" can only place two competitors in each division(to get around this the teams will enter guys under slightly different team names, for instance this division features two guys from Atos and two guys from ATOS BJJ) and second guys from the same team(name) can only meet in the finals. This is critically important for this division because the 4 best competitors(Rafael and Guilherme Mendes, Eduardo Ramos and Bruno Fratzatto) are all teammates. Atos entered Rafael and Bruno under one team and Eduardo and Guilherme on the other(meaning Eduardo can only face Guilherme in the finals, and Rafael and Bruno can only meet in the finals). Like I said these are the four best guys so how they are seeded will go a long way to determine who gets what medal, if the brackets end up like they did at the European Open earlier this year with none of those competitors meeting until the medal round then I expect them all to medal with none of them fighting each other. If they meet earlier in the bracket than it's hard to say who will sit out for whom.

However, even though I think the four best guys are from Atos I do think there are two competitors who can make some noise in this division. I think Ryan Hall(Brasa) and Justin Rader(Ribeiro BJJ) are good enough that they have a decent shot of upsetting either Bruno or Ed(however both of them would be big underdogs to Rafael and Guilherme).

Now that we know who the main players are lets talk a little about each of them. I will list them starting from the guy I consider the best and working down from there.

Rafael Mendes: Rafael has not lost a match since loosing a referees decision to Cobrinha in the semi final of the 2009 world championships. Since then Rafael has gone on to win the European Open, the pan ams, the world championships, ADCC and Abu Dhabi World Pro. Doing so he's beaten Cobrinha(who was the king of this division for years and regarded as one of the very best players in the world) multiple times under multiple rule sets in a series of very close competitive matches, virtually everyone else who's stepped on the mats with Rafael has gotten steam rolled and in doing so established himself as not just the best feather weight in the world, but as one of the very best pound for pound(if you believe in such things). While many people think of Rafael as only a 50/50 a player the truth is he has an incredible de la riva/ reverse de la riva game and may well be the strongest guard passer in the division. It's also worth noting that Rafael has wins over both Ryan Hall and Justin Rader.

Rafael Mendes vs Theodoro Canal http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QhOU2um5MEA
Rafael Mendes vs Ryan Hall http://www.grappling-core.com/videos/_Rafael_Mendes_vs_Ryan_Hall_2010_Jiu_jitsu_World_C?vid=10002714
Killing some dude http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UF8LM82Dhgc

Guilherme Mendes: The older brother of Rafael, Guilherme is also well decorated with gold medals from the Pan Ams, World Championships, Brazilian Nationals and European Open(all of those coming at light feather). Guilherme came up through the belts at featherweight before dropping down to light feather to avoid being in the same bracket as his brother, he had a ton of success initially, before having trouble making weight at last years world championships and being upset in the first round. Like his brother, Guilherme has a very well rounded game, and while the consensus is that he's not as good as Rafael he's still a freaking monster.

Guilherme Mendes vs Justin Rader http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rTNXTxgWtJA
Guilherme Mendes vs Pablo Silva http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zLne0kiPfaE
Rafael and Guilherme highlight http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_RLz4V0YvPQ

Bruno Frazatto: Bruno is another highly decorated player(2 medals at the world championships, and 2 golds from the Brazilian Nationals among other things). Bruno was the first guy to really use 50/50 on the world stage, using it to slow down and nearly beat Cobrinha in a way no one else had done up to that point.

Bruno vs Theodoro Canal http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_Ryk5p9XEpY
Bruno vs Isaque Paiva http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IHG6Lo6xNnY

I don't know a ton about Eduardo Ramos so I'll just post some videos

Eduardo Ramosvs Ryan Hall http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EvlkAe5LUn4
Eduardo Ramos vs Rubens Camargo http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-yK101vkn0Y
Eduardo against some dude http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1dQf4s_8tho

Ryan Hall is one of the best known American BJJ players thanks to winning a lot of competitions at lower belts and being heavily promoted by Lloyd Irvin. Ryan left team Lloyd Irvin about two years ago and is now part of Brasa team. Since receiving his black belt before last years Pan Ams Ryan has had some good results(winning the IBJJF Houston Open and the Abu Dhabi World Pro Qualifiers) to go along with loosing to some of the top guys in the division(Ed Ramos, Rafael Mendes, Theodoro Canal). However Ryan looks better with each passing tournament and after looking really good so far this year I think he's got a decent shot at a medal. In addition to the tournaments I mentioned earlier Ryan also has a bronze medal from the 2009 ADCC.

Ryan Hall vs Bruno Rocha http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5qJuyLgl_yw
Ryan Hall vs Eduardo Silva http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wf_DTBNAODY
Ryan Hall highlight http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_G5rAsrkx8Q

Justin Rader has been competing at a pretty high level for quite some time(he did really well vs Cobrinha in a no gi match back in early 2009 before going to ADCC later that year) he received his black belt late last year and has since gone on to win the No Gi worlds and the IBJJF Houston open. Justin doesn't have as good a guard as some of the guys in this division but he's got great base and probably the best wrestling in the division.

Justin Rader vs Gustavo Carpio http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r3RqnbqLKvk
Justin Rader vs Michael Trasso http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B7-iD8TYvXA

Thoguh
Nov 8, 2002

College Slice
Reader won, woohoo! National Champion! It was a down year for Iowa State wreslting, so it's great to still be able to say that we crowned a national champion!

Konstantin
Jun 20, 2005
And the Lord said, "Look, they are one people, and they have all one language; and this is only the beginning of what they will do; nothing that they propose to do will now be impossible for them.
There was a discussion in the UFC thread about when fighters hit their 'prime'. Since grappling has a bit more history than MMA, I was wondering about what age fighters start to decline at in BJJ or wrestling?

awkward_turtle
Oct 26, 2007
swimmer in a goon sea
I'm really loving Ryan Hall lately, he's come a long way from being the inverted guard guy, aka, "Dr. Ryangle." Much more complete Jiu-jitsu while still retaining that smoothness that made him fun to watch. Rafa is still a freak monster though. Not looking forward to possibly seeing the the finals and semi's being entirely closed out with a handshake.

dokomoy
May 21, 2004

awkward_turtle posted:

I'm really loving Ryan Hall lately, he's come a long way from being the inverted guard guy, aka, "Dr. Ryangle." Much more complete Jiu-jitsu while still retaining that smoothness that made him fun to watch. Rafa is still a freak monster though. Not looking forward to possibly seeing the the finals and semi's being entirely closed out with a handshake.

Closing out brackets definetly sucks from a spectators point of view, however until the IBJJF starts paying people I don't think they should require team mates to fight(though obviously some guys do (Roger vs Romulo Barral in the absolute finals is probably the best example). For what it's worth I'm pretty sure Rafael Mendes has a win over Bruno Frzatto in no gi from a few years back, and Eduardo Ramos and Guilherme fought in the finals of the Abu Dhabi World Pro trials a few weeks back. Rafael also had a good match with Guilherme in the finals of last years Abu Dhabi World Pro. Apparently your not allowed to bow out to your teammates in that tournament, supposedly the organizers weren't super happy with Cyborg basically throwing the match to Vagner Rocha In the finals of the east coast trials.

MuonManLaserJab
Nov 6, 2010

- JIU-JITSU (18 Submissions)
- QUANTUM PHYSICS
What's the best way to watch these tournaments?

Also, is this the Michael Hall guard pull?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5WzHIc8Lkr8#t=8m20s

dokomoy
May 21, 2004

MuonManLaserJab posted:

What's the best way to watch these tournaments?

Also, is this the Michael Hall guard pull?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5WzHIc8Lkr8#t=8m20s

There are a couple of options for watching bjj tournaments(I have no idea about wrestling). Some of the big events(Pan Ams, World Championships, probably the No-Gi worlds, ADCC) will be streamed, probably for about 10 bucks each. All of those events will make there way to dvds(generally 50-100 bucks) and depending on the event they'll feature the finals plus some of the best fights, or the finals and previous rounds of the tournament. Unfortunately events that end up on dvd don't end up on youtube(and if they do they get taken down) however you can sometimes find them through google videos, and other events(Brazilian Nationals, European Open, Abu Dhabi World Pro etc) make there way to youtube in the days after the events you can search for them on youtube or if you read any of the popular jiu jitsu blogs/forums you'll find plenty of links.

MuonManLaserJab
Nov 6, 2010

- JIU-JITSU (18 Submissions)
- QUANTUM PHYSICS

dokomoy posted:

There are a couple of options for watching bjj tournaments(I have no idea about wrestling). Some of the big events(Pan Ams, World Championships, probably the No-Gi worlds, ADCC) will be streamed, probably for about 10 bucks each. All of those events will make there way to dvds(generally 50-100 bucks) and depending on the event they'll feature the finals plus some of the best fights, or the finals and previous rounds of the tournament. Unfortunately events that end up on dvd don't end up on youtube(and if they do they get taken down) however you can sometimes find them through google videos, and other events(Brazilian Nationals, European Open, Abu Dhabi World Pro etc) make there way to youtube in the days after the events you can search for them on youtube or if you read any of the popular jiu jitsu blogs/forums you'll find plenty of links.

I was starting to post about how nice it would be if Netflix had this stuff, and that we need NetFights.com, but then I googled it and http://www.mmavault.com/ maybe we do? Anyone try this or something similar? Is it kosher to joke about how big of a hard drive I'd buy if I ever signed up for this?

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fatherdog
Feb 16, 2005
Netflix actually does have two Best of ADCC dvds, although it doesn't have any of the full year sets unfortunately.

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