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Cry me a river. The right uses more abusive language toward the left all the time.
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Mar 22, 2011 18:38
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True, I understand Maher's a comedian and "dumb twat" aren't exactly the worst thing that could be said. I guess I'm coming from the angle that I'd like Palin to go the way of obscurity (finally), and any fake outrage from the right that could be avoided regarding her the better.
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Mar 22, 2011 19:06
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I think Palin was a boon to the left in that she took attention and votes away from the part of the right that actually has a good chance of being elected while not garnering enough support to get elected herself. I could say the same about most of the Tea Party but some of them actually got elected. I consider that good too. Yes, show America how retarded your ideas really are. That's fine. Have them rise up against you to demonstrate that as lazy as we are there is some poo poo we just won't tolerate.
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Mar 22, 2011 19:22
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I just received this from my mother. A friend of her's is a former citizen of Russia, and I think they were having an email correspondence back and forth about politics. I am upset to say this, but my mother is the tea party stereotype. Highest education is an AA in some useless liberal art study like social studies and humanities, several times she has been at the poverty line, unable to afford many of her bills, but vehemently defends tax cuts to the rich and supports all Republican guised movements such as the Tea Party, far right Christian movements, and their spokespeople such as Glenn Beck and Michelle Bachmann. We have not spoken on political ideologies in almost two years excluding a brief mention of taxing. It was too much of a strain between us. Here is the email from her friend: quote:I support all your worries about US. I'd like to tell you about USSR. My tax was It may not be some insane fw: fw: fw: email, but it scares me because she has no idea that I'm a registered democratic socialist and have coordinated campaigns and events for educating the modern definition of democratic socialist and how it does not mean you are a Leninist. It's really strange because she would be more supportive if I was gay.
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Mar 23, 2011 00:33
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Enjoy posted:The people aren't at fault, it's just their coping mechanism for living in, and therefore implicitly supporting, capitalism. If the defence industries have decided that America should purchase a trillion dollars worth of cruise missiles with which to throw against an arbitrary, easily isolated nation, then voters have to reconcile their implicit support of the system that allows that to happen by creating a narrative that gives a reason for that pointless destruction. To make things easier, capitalism often supplies narratives of its own accord that people can buy into without thinking too hard. Yep, this is why there are no war hawks or unnecessary military buildups in socialist or communist countries. Free of defense industry narratives, people are naturally peaceful, communally-minded and selfless.
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Mar 23, 2011 01:52
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That is excellent logic
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Mar 23, 2011 02:07
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Enjoy posted:That is excellent logic It's true, my formal logic was flawed. I'll now additionally suggest that the reduction of crazy forwarded political email opinions to capitalist brainwashing is itself less than logically rigorous and formally proven!
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Mar 23, 2011 02:57
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I love how the logic behind "socialism never works because Russia failed" never applies to democracy. There's corrupt democratic governments the world over, and no one says "Well scrap democracy it obviously doesn't work". It's like the idea that we could learn from the mistakes Russia made isn't even out there.
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Mar 23, 2011 03:27
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RagnarokAngel posted:I love how the logic behind "socialism never works because Russia failed" never applies to democracy. There's corrupt democratic governments the world over, and no one says "Well scrap democracy it obviously doesn't work". It's like the idea that we could learn from the mistakes Russia made isn't even out there. A few decades of propaganda will do that. Better dead, apparently.
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Mar 23, 2011 03:36
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Donkey Kunt posted:My freinds are traveling to Eurupe and they told me no good things about. I swear, every conservative believes this. Apparently Europe is full of 3rd world nations. I told my girlfriend's mom that I want to live in Great Britain and she looked at me as if I had just told her I wanted to live in Libya.
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Mar 23, 2011 04:20
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quote:My freinds are traveling to Eurupe and they told me no good things about. I could replace "Europe" with "America" and it would still ring true. Little known fact that you will find all these things anywhere in the world, and wealthy countries attracting wealth-seekers who have nothing else to lose? Well I never. It does make me wonder what they're doing exactly that they're travelling through Europe and have nothing good to say of it, and even make outrageous claims that there's a prostitute on every street corner and child porn everywhere. Either they have a really, really lovely travelling agency or he's pulling things out of his rear end.
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Mar 23, 2011 12:24
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Angry Avocado posted:I could replace "Europe" with "America" and it would still ring true. Little known fact that you will find all these things anywhere in the world, and wealthy countries attracting wealth-seekers who have nothing else to lose? Well I never. I've been deployed to Kosovo twice and it isn't that bad. Been to Germany, Bulgaria, Austria, Italy, Ireland, and Croatia. Never saw any places as bad as the inner cities in the US. There were a lot of homeless or beggars in places, but nothing worse than the US. And if there were prostitutes hanging out, I must have missed them. The lesson I took from my trips is the US isn't the end all be all of the world.
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Mar 23, 2011 12:38
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Armyman25 posted:I've been deployed to Kosovo twice and it isn't that bad. Been to Germany, Bulgaria, Austria, Italy, Ireland, and Croatia. Never saw any places as bad as the inner cities in the US. This might give us a hint as to where these people are coming from. You're comparing the bad places in Europe to US inner cities. These conservatives visiting Europe might have simply never been to a US inner city. They might be comparing the worst places they find to their small town, USA. On the other hand, it's a holiday, how many lovely places are you really going to see on a holiday? I've certainly never seen any during one. I suppose if prostitutes means the city is lovely and you go to visit the Amsterdam red light district or something then I guess that would explain it. Then again, the claim of finding child pornography everywhere gives away that they are just pulling poo poo out of their rear end.
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Mar 23, 2011 12:45
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Option 3: your friends were actively looking for prostitutes and child porn, thusly seeing it wherever they go ( to find sex and naked children )
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Mar 23, 2011 12:53
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I know this isn't quite a forwarded e-mail, but my mom just wrote a mini-rant on Facebook, in response to my sister applying for welfare due to not being able to find a job (she's been looking like crazy, by the way):My mother posted:Idk...never filed unemployment, would never dream of taking food stamps and making that a way of life, state insurance...nah...wouldn't want to be one of those poor souls sitting in a clinic with coughing people. Capable people should use their talents to the best of their abilities...examining the benefit package that comes along with the job. Heck, I am so gonna have a nice nest egg when I retire, whereas those that live off of those of us that work hard will have nothing...as it should be. She then followed up by saying: dear old mom posted:People that generally live off of others usually have this attitude of "I deserve it" and "they owe me". What do they owe you? You know how I feel going grocery shopping and seeing people with bling bling on using food stamps...trying to pretend to be something they are not...holding an image that truly isn't how it really is. They always have their hands out too wanting stuff that they don't deserve. Everyone in America is owed nothing...unless truly disabled like no arms...can't work.Everybody in America has the same opportunities to succeed. Gosh, I've had my own insurance since 18 1/2. Anyone can do it...just use your critical thinking skills. It reads like satire or something, but I know it isn't. There are plenty of things I can say to her, but where exactly do I start with this line of thinking? Also, I didn't omit anything; those ellipses are all her own.
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Mar 23, 2011 20:44
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Streets Ahead posted:Horrible mom... 
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Mar 23, 2011 20:50
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Streets Ahead posted:It reads like satire or something, but I know it isn't. There are plenty of things I can say to her, but where exactly do I start with this line of thinking? Also, I didn't omit anything; those ellipses are all her own. It's strange. Some people who are comfortably-off will think that it was their own hard work who put them there, and anyone can do the same through similar hard work. Some people who are badly-off will think that it was a set of unlucky circumstances or accidents that put them there, and anyone can suffer from similar ill luck. Which of the two has the humility and insight to know that they're correct? I know I don't.
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Mar 23, 2011 21:09
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Streets Ahead posted:Racist Mom Bling bling using foodstamps? Yeah, I wonder who she's talking about there. Also, she's had insurance since she's 18 and a half? Really? 18 and a half? Like, she literally counts her age in half-years, like a child? Seriously, the best way to discredit that entire line of thinking is to focus on the fact that she said people with bling bling on foodstamps. It's very apparent she's being a racist shitheel, and no one listens to racists once they're outed.
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Mar 23, 2011 21:12
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Streets Ahead posted:I know this isn't quite a forwarded e-mail, but my mom just wrote a mini-rant on Facebook, in response to my sister applying for welfare due to not being able to find a job (she's been looking like crazy, by the way): Does she want your sister to become a prostitute or something? Seems like the only option according to her rational. At least that's all I can figure out from this crazy bullshit.
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Mar 23, 2011 21:29
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XyloJW posted:Bling bling using foodstamps? Yeah, I wonder who she's talking about there. Also, she's had insurance since she's 18 and a half? Really? 18 and a half? Like, she literally counts her age in half-years, like a child? Accusations of racism are very much a thought terminating cliché. That wouldn't change her mind about anything. Creating empathy as a conduit around the attributional bias (as ljw1004 noted) would work better. But poo poo, if it's her daughter I don't even know what the gently caress
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Mar 23, 2011 21:32
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Enjoy posted:Accusations of racism are very much a thought terminating cliché. That wouldn't change her mind about anything. Creating empathy as a conduit around the attributional bias (as ljw1004 noted) would work better. But poo poo, if it's her daughter I don't even know what the gently caress Pretty much. If you really want to piss her off ask her why she failed your sister so much in childhood.
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Mar 23, 2011 21:38
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Enjoy posted:Accusations of racism are very much a thought terminating cliché. That wouldn't change her mind about anything. Creating empathy as a conduit around the attributional bias (as ljw1004 noted) would work better. But poo poo, if it's her daughter I don't even know what the gently caress I'm aware that accusing someone of racist basically ends the discussion, but some people are so broken in their viewpoints that one encounter isn't going to change poo poo. Only repeated encounters of people saying "Woah, what the gently caress" are going to slow her down. And the best way for other people to see that, in this public Facebook discussion, is to point out unequivocally that she's being a monster.
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Mar 23, 2011 21:40
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This is a very fitting flowchart I need to use whenever my girlfriend's dad tries to talk politics with me: Me: "The majority of economists agree that the stimulus helped save jobs" Girlfriend's Dad: "I just don't believe that" Me: "Good thing I believe economists over someone who has no education in economics"
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Mar 23, 2011 21:51
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XyloJW posted:Only repeated encounters of people saying "Woah, what the gently caress" are going to slow her down. And the best way for other people to see that, in this public Facebook discussion, is to point out unequivocally that she's being a monster. Yeah I guess so, if it's coming from someone she already empathises with that could work
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Mar 23, 2011 21:51
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ljw1004 posted:It's strange. Some people who are comfortably-off will think that it was their own hard work who put them there, and anyone can do the same through similar hard work.
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Mar 23, 2011 21:57
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Zwiftef posted:Pretty much. If you really want to piss her off ask her why she failed your sister so much in childhood. Children that generally live off of their parents usually have this attitude of "I deserve it" and "they owe me". What do they owe you?
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Mar 23, 2011 22:10
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Pornographic Memory posted:Children that generally live off of their parents usually have this attitude of "I deserve it" and "they owe me". What do they owe you? Apparently she failed to properly prepare her daughter for the worst US economy since the Great Depression. She's obviously a failure of a mother.
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Mar 23, 2011 22:19
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Corbet posted:This is a very fitting flowchart I need to use whenever my girlfriend's dad tries to talk politics with me: I like that flowchart, thanks. I used to have very similar conversations with my father-in-law, only I didn't speak that last part aloud, because it'd just get him mad and he'd delete me from Facebook, and then my wife would have to call him and guilt him into re-adding me. Basically, I let my wife, who is a former (reformed?) tea partier, talk to him to keep him from getting angry at me! From last week: Father-in-Law: The Tea Party is just concerned citizens who don't want to throw money out the window anymore. But the media tries to make us all look crazy. Wife: I get that there are people who really are concerned about that, dad, but the actual people who represent the Tea Party are pretty crazy. I mean, why even use the label if it doesn't fit you anymore? Father-in-Law: There aren't any Tea Party leaders, unless you count Sarah Palin. You don't think she's crazy, do you? Believe me, when it's not me that has to respond to that, it's so much less stressful. XyloJW fucked around with this message at 22:25 on Mar 23, 2011 |
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Mar 23, 2011 22:19
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I don't think anything is going to help here but pushing the "your daughter" angle. Calling her a racist certainly won't help. Her daughter probably doesn't fit the stereotype of the bling-bling having welfare queen she has in her mind. The fact that her girl is now among those people is pissing her off, which is why she's lashing out on Facebook. But at the same time it's something you can use as a handle to change her mind (probably not about people on welfare in general, though. Just her daughter). Usually it's personal arguments, things that really hit home and people can relate to that put things into perspective and are able to change minds. Streets Ahead posted:I know this isn't quite a forwarded e-mail, but my mom just wrote a mini-rant on Facebook, in response to my sister applying for welfare due to not being able to find a job (she's been looking like crazy, by the way): Her daughter applied for unemployment because she still needs to eat and pay the bills, because those things continue even without a source of income. Does this mean that now her daughter is selfish and entitled, or just down on her luck and getting help from a place she can get it? Angry Avocado fucked around with this message at 22:27 on Mar 23, 2011 |
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Mar 23, 2011 22:24
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My sister is stupid the same way too. When we were talking about UHC, she suggested that people that don't have health care just "get a job that has healthcare benefits". If only they knew it was that simple! The answer to our health care issues has been in front of our eyes this entire time!!!
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Mar 23, 2011 22:27
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Only the entitled complain about entitlements.
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Mar 23, 2011 22:29
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Corbet posted:This is a very fitting flowchart I need to use whenever my girlfriend's dad tries to talk politics with me: I love this chart. I admit that I can be just as guilty as breaking its rules as the rightwingers we're all complaining about, so it's good to be reminded of its values.
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Mar 23, 2011 22:35
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In response to an article about how the Japanese aren't rioting:quote:It's like Katrina. Most of the Gulf got pounded, but the majority of those affected rebuilt their homes and businesses and moved on, but the media focused for months on the whining residents of New Orleans exclusively, most of whom where on welfare and living in public housing and who didn't actually lose anything significant other than having to move to new public housing in other areas. Hell, we're still hearing about how they all have PTSD now...and nothing about the majority of the more self-reliant people around them on all sides who just sighed and began cleaning up with little help asked for or given. Poor people. What do they own that matters?
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Mar 23, 2011 22:51
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You mean a functional social safety net will prevent people from looting in a bid to keep from starving? Say it ain't so!
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Mar 23, 2011 22:59
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Angry Avocado posted:I don't think anything is going to help here but pushing the "your daughter" angle. Calling her a racist certainly won't help. Her daughter probably doesn't fit the stereotype of the bling-bling having welfare queen she has in her mind. The fact that her girl is now among those people is pissing her off, which is why she's lashing out on Facebook. But at the same time it's something you can use as a handle to change her mind (probably not about people on welfare in general, though. Just her daughter). I'd approach it like this: "I realize that there is a small portion of people on welfare who cheat the system, but there are hundreds of thousands like your daughter who fall on hard times who need it to survive. Should we punish those people who fall on hard times because of the small group who scam the welfare system?"
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Mar 24, 2011 00:26
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Corbet posted:I'd approach it like this: "I realize that there is a small portion of people on welfare who cheat the system, but there are hundreds of thousands like your daughter who fall on hard times who need it to survive. Should we punish those people who fall on hard times because of the small group who scam the welfare system?" "One bad apple spoils the bunch" I really got that as a counterpoint once to this argument.  EDIT: I just remembered something from a few years back, that's not an email. But fits the thread perfectly. In my high school sophomore "Intro to philosophy" class. Back when the gay rights movement in Cali was getting heated up again and before prop 8 had passed the first time. Our teacher made us read a couple of papers on homosexuality. http://www.iclnet.org/pub/resources/text/cri/cri-jrnl/crj0107a.txt http://www.iclnet.org/pub/resources/text/cri/cri-jrnl/web/crj0108a.html I've linked them in the order we read them in. I furiously hated that class and this made me grip my desk until my knuckles turned white that they would force a bunch of high schools to read this. Small Christian private schools in the south suck. Dotcom656 fucked around with this message at 03:07 on Mar 24, 2011 |
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Mar 24, 2011 03:01
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Dotcom656 posted:"One bad apple spoils the bunch" I really got that as a counterpoint once to this argument. Then tell them that due to the actions of the Catholic Church circa the Crusades all Christianity should now be thrown out the window, if that argument is true.
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Mar 24, 2011 03:03
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Dotcom656 posted:"One bad apple spoils the bunch" I really got that as a counterpoint once to this argument. Looks like we should throw out all free market principles/capitalism thanks to the financial crisis!
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Mar 24, 2011 03:06
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Corbet posted:Looks like we should throw out all free market principles/capitalism thanks to the financial crisis! No no guys, my logical fallacy only works for stuff that I agree with!
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Mar 24, 2011 03:45
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Streets Ahead posted:...my mom just wrote a mini-rant on Facebook "Everybody in America has the same opportunities to succeed." That's the line that sticks out to me. Only someone completely out of touch with reality would think that. A simple google search for "poverty in america" brings up countless government resources and simpler articles like this handy list. One out of every five children in the United States is now living in poverty. I mean, that alone sort of gives you an idea of just how rigged the game is for so many people. Someone out of touch would respond to that by saying "they can still choose to go to school and study hard and go to college on full scholarship..." etc etc, but we all know that there are many potential factors that make it very difficult to just choose to do well and be smart and make good decisions. Besides the fact that education costs are going through the roof (especially compared to average incomes which aren't doing much of anything), kids that grow up in poverty may not even have a properly-funded grade school or have access to opportunities to see what the right choices are. And when you live in poverty, you deal with crime, and you deal with joblessness and lack of healthcare, etc etc. Sorry, I could go on for days about this; it burns me up to hear people talk about bootstraps and just wave away all the problems in this country.
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