The Order of the Stick: T-Rex, Troll Sex and Will Checks

The Something Awful Forums > The Finer Arts > BSS: Bisexual Super Son > The Order of the Stick: T-Rex, Troll Sex and Will Checks

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LightWarden: Mar 18, 2007; Lander county's safe as heaven,
despite all the strife and boilin',
Tin Star,
Oh how she's an icon of the eastern west,
But now the time has come to end our song,
of the Tin Star, the Tin Star!

Update

# ? Mar 23, 2011 14:29

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# ? May 15, 2024 20:53

Affi: Dec 18, 2005; Break bread wit the enemy

X GON GIVE IT TO YA

holy poo poo

# ? Mar 23, 2011 14:56

Bobulus: Jan 28, 2007

Ouch.

...

All the guards are firing horizontally. I bet the kneeling one lives.

# ? Mar 23, 2011 15:14

CapnAndy: Feb 27, 2004; Some teeth long for ripping, gleaming wet from black dog gums. So you keep your eyes closed at the end. You don't want to see such a mouth up close. before the bite, before its oblivion in the goring of your soft parts, the speckled lips will curl back in a whinny of excitement. You just know it.

And that, apparently, is what we get for liking Tarquin.

# ? Mar 23, 2011 16:10

Eifert Posting: Apr 1, 2007; Most of the time he catches it every time.; Grimey Drawer

Rich writes "Evil, not stupid" better than anyone in Fantasy, and I'm including real authors.

# ? Mar 23, 2011 17:22

Kuno: Nov 4, 2008

Ffffuuuck

That was... brutal.

# ? Mar 23, 2011 17:22

Coolio: Nov 5, 2009; by Ozmaugh

Toussaint Louverture posted:

Rich writes "Evil, not stupid" better than anyone in Fantasy, and I'm including real authors.

Despite being genre savvy, cunning, and intelligent, he can't quite seem to grasp that his chaotic good bard son is in fact not okay with him doing awful things to people for awful reasons.

# ? Mar 23, 2011 17:32

Nilbop: Jun 5, 2004; Looks like someone forgot his hardhat...

Bobulus posted:

Ouch.

...

All the guards are firing horizontally. I bet the kneeling one lives.

I think that's more to do with the fact that if they aimed higher for greater distance they'd run an increased risk of firing into the crowd of awful, awful jerks.

# ? Mar 23, 2011 17:35

DrakePegasus: Jan 30, 2009; It was Plundersaurus Rex's dream to be the greatest pirate dragon ever.

CapnAndy posted:

And that, apparently, is what we get for liking Tarquin.

Times like this, Clopin said it best.

"Now here is a riddle, to guess if you can, sing the bells of Notre Dame! Who is the monster and who is the man?"

# ? Mar 23, 2011 17:51

Coolio: Nov 5, 2009; by Ozmaugh

I wonder how people on the official forums are enjoying this strip

quote:

Alright, let's do the math.

Let's say Gannji and Enor are 10th level. Gannji being a Lizardfolk (2 RHD, LA +1) Rogue 7 and Enor being a Half-Dragon Half-Ogre (LA +5) Fighter 5, using the Elite array.

Gannji puts the 15 into Dex, because he's a Rogue. Add 2 to that for the 9 HD. 17 Dex, +3 modifier. They are both wearing armor, but let's say it's crappy cheap armor and is only as good as Studded Leather. That's a +3. Lizardfolk have a NA bonus of +5. He has an AC of 21.

Enor puts his 13 into Dex, because he pretty clearly dumped the mental stats. No increases from HD, so that gives him a +1 Dex modifier. Same armor deal, so +3. He has a NA of +6 from the two templates. That's a total of 10, but subtract 1 for Large size. So Enor has an AC of 19.

Let's assume that the mooks are second-level Fighters. They have a BAB of +2. Using the non-elite array, they have a Dex of 13 or 12, so a +1 for Dex gives them an attack bonus of +3.

So, to hit Gannji, they have to roll an 18 or higher, and to hit Enor, they have to roll a 16 or higher.

I'll just go with 30 bolts, even though that's not the number of crossbowmen we see firing. 15 bolts apiece. The odds are stacked against the mooks even hitting them, but we'll say one bolt hits per round.

Assuming half HP for every HD past the first, with a Con of 16 for Enor and a Con of 14 for Gannji, Gannji has 51 HP, and Enor has 45 HP.

Again, assume one bolt apiece per turn. Light crossbows deal 1d8 damage. We'll ignore criticals, because that would require the mook that hit them to roll that lucky again. 4 damage per round on average.

Assuming all of the above, it will take the 15 mooks firing at each of them 12 rounds (1 minute, 12 seconds) to take Enor to the negatives, and it will take them 13 rounds (1 minutes, 18 seconds) to take Gannji down.

I'm sorry if I came off as insulting, and I apologize for any remarks that came across as demeaning to Rich or anyone else, but this completely and totally killed the drama in a scene I was quite enjoying until I thought about it. I would forgot about it and assume the law of drama is just being used, but Order of the Stick has always run on D&D rules, and they never seem to be "put on hold", barring maybe one or two comedic scenes. You could recreate almost all of the combat in the comic using D&D rules.

So again, apologies for the harsh tone I took in my earlier post.

Oh.

# ? Mar 23, 2011 17:56

Message: Jul 17, 2007; I have the best taste in this whole damn place

^^^^ Yikes

Poor Enor and Gannji

# ? Mar 23, 2011 18:01

Affi: Dec 18, 2005; Break bread wit the enemy

X GON GIVE IT TO YA

They are bolts of slaying. The end.

# ? Mar 23, 2011 18:02

Pope Guilty: Nov 6, 2006; The human animal is a beautiful and terrible creature, capable of limitless compassion and unfathomable cruelty.

Coolio posted:

Despite being genre savvy, cunning, and intelligent, he can't quite seem to grasp that his chaotic good bard son is in fact not okay with him doing awful things to people for awful reasons.

Or he doesn't care, and he's enjoying watching Elan suffer and playing to the role he's decided he'll be playing the tale of how Elan slew (or didn't!) his father.

# ? Mar 23, 2011 18:07

navyjack: Jul 15, 2006

Coolio posted:

Despite being genre savvy, cunning, and intelligent, he can't quite seem to grasp that his chaotic good bard son is in fact not okay with him doing awful things to people for awful reasons.

He knows. He just thinks the whole "there is good in him! I can save him from himself" scene is both tedious and demeaning, so he wants to make sure Elan knows that he's beyond redemption!

# ? Mar 23, 2011 18:08

Cabbit: Jul 19, 2001; _{Is that everything you have?}

Coolio posted:

Despite being genre savvy, cunning, and intelligent, he can't quite seem to grasp that his chaotic good bard son is in fact not okay with him doing awful things to people for awful reasons.

That's the thing: he does grasp that, remember? He knows he's the villain, and he's giving Elan more fuel for the fire.

# ? Mar 23, 2011 18:10

CapnAndy: Feb 27, 2004; Some teeth long for ripping, gleaming wet from black dog gums. So you keep your eyes closed at the end. You don't want to see such a mouth up close. before the bite, before its oblivion in the goring of your soft parts, the speckled lips will curl back in a whinny of excitement. You just know it.

Pope Guilty posted:

Or he doesn't care, and he's enjoying watching Elan suffer and playing to the role he's decided he'll be playing the tale of how Elan slew (or didn't!) his father.

No, this seems like legitimate concern for Elan's desires combined with a total inability to understand Elan's worldview. Elan says he doesn't enjoy watching people suffer, so Tarquin moves to end their suffering. From Elan's perspective, "I don't want them killed either" is so obvious it doesn't need to be said, and from Tarquin's perspective, "enemies must be killed" is so obvious it doesn't need to be said. So he has them killed, because that's what Elan just told him he wanted, a quick death for his foes.

# ? Mar 23, 2011 18:11

TampaTango: Apr 12, 2007; COMICS CRIMINAL

Coolio posted:

I wonder how people on the official forums are enjoying this strip

I run large RPG events at conventions and this drives me batty when people show up with spreadsheets complaining on how another players character is suboptimal.

I made a warforged bard once just because it was very suboptimal.

# ? Mar 23, 2011 18:11

Cabbit: Jul 19, 2001; _{Is that everything you have?}

TampaTango posted:

I run large RPG events at conventions and this drives me batty when people show up with spreadsheets complaining on how another players character is suboptimal.

I made a warforged bard once just because it was very suboptimal.

That's usually in bad form, yeah, though some people run with DMs who are absolute murderfiends that necessitate that level of precision. Different stroke.

# ? Mar 23, 2011 18:20

Eifert Posting: Apr 1, 2007; Most of the time he catches it every time.; Grimey Drawer

People on the forums talking about how they might survive a round of crossbow bolts like the evil dictator putting on a spectacle to demonstrate his power to his subjects will just say "Welp back in the pen with you" if his ordered execution doesn't take in six seconds.

How can people quickly and accurately work out complex math showing how the rules can allow certain situations to occur but be too stupid to realize big evil leader's gonna want him some dead lizards?

# ? Mar 23, 2011 18:52

CapnAndy: Feb 27, 2004; Some teeth long for ripping, gleaming wet from black dog gums. So you keep your eyes closed at the end. You don't want to see such a mouth up close. before the bite, before its oblivion in the goring of your soft parts, the speckled lips will curl back in a whinny of excitement. You just know it.

I don't know if they're too stupid to realize that a gun in a cutscene does different damage than a gun in combat, or too autistic.

# ? Mar 23, 2011 20:32

TampaTango: Apr 12, 2007; COMICS CRIMINAL

CapnAndy posted:

I don't know if they're too stupid to realize that a gun in a cutscene does different damage than a gun in combat, or too autistic.

"There is no saving throw vs boxtest." :colbert:

"You watch in horror as a single dart thrown by a blind halfling with senility and the shakes penetrates the visor of the heavily armored orge, and pokes through the back of his helm as he falls backward onto his hapless goblin standard bearer. The tip of the standard breaks off and disembowels the evil sorceress before shattering the artifact Ice Tongs of Improbability."

Calculate how many rounds that takes.

# ? Mar 23, 2011 21:11

The Chad Jihad: Feb 24, 2007

Toussaint Louverture posted:

How can people quickly and accurately work out complex math showing how the rules can allow certain situations to occur but be too stupid to realize big evil leader's gonna want him some dead lizards?

If they don't die in the first volley, there's time for something else to happen before they're finished off that could save them. But yeah, they're totally gonna bite it

# ? Mar 23, 2011 23:12

inthesto: May 12, 2010; Pro is an amazing name!

TampaTango posted:

I run large RPG events at conventions and this drives me batty when people show up with spreadsheets complaining on how another players character is suboptimal.

I made a warforged bard once just because it was very suboptimal.

A lot of people don't realize this, but RPGs (at least ones that have massive issues like D&D 3.X) really run a lot more smoothly when the entire group sits down and makes sure they're on the same page in terms of what they want out of the game. As a DM, this helps me a lot, because then I know not to throw difficult encounters at a sub-optimal party (regardless of whether the players don't know how to optimize, or just feel like goofing off).

I've never played an RPG at a convention, but my instinct tells me achieving this borders on impossible with a pick-up group.

Toussaint Louverture posted:

People on the forums talking about how they might survive a round of crossbow bolts like the evil dictator putting on a spectacle to demonstrate his power to his subjects will just say "Welp back in the pen with you" if his ordered execution doesn't take in six seconds.

How can people quickly and accurately work out complex math showing how the rules can allow certain situations to occur but be too stupid to realize big evil leader's gonna want him some dead lizards?

People do obsessive rules analysis poo poo like this because 1. it's fun for those of us who like to play with rules and 2. Burlew very often lets the rules dictate how the world works more often than not. However, I do think most OotS readers (even the rules spergy ones) are grounded enough to know when Burlew is going to ignore the rules in favor of good writing (and this is one of those times).

# ? Mar 23, 2011 23:23

HKR: Jan 13, 2006; there is no universe where duke nukem would not be a trans ally

inthesto posted:

People do obsessive rules analysis poo poo like this because 1. it's fun for those of us who like to play with rules and 2. Burlew very often lets the rules dictate how the world works more often than not. However, I do think most OotS readers (even the rules spergy ones) are grounded enough to know when Burlew is going to ignore the rules in favor of good writing (and this is one of those times).

Then of course there are the times where he uses the rules to further enhance his great story-telling.

I can see this being one of those times, especially with the comment of "30 crossbow bolts should be enough to take down even a half dragon"

# ? Mar 24, 2011 00:13

Mylan: Jun 19, 2002

Ok, I know I'm gonna come off as a shill, but I rarely check the actual website for updates anymore, preferring this thread. I just went there and saw there's a new book for sale with a limited print so I figured I'd give the heads up to anyone interested. It's all the dragon magazine strips plus some other bullshit. The part that sounds interesting to me is where the Order fights their evil 4th edition duplicates.

# ? Mar 24, 2011 00:50

Ashenai: Oct 5, 2005; You taught me language;
and my profit on't
Is, I know how to curse.

Ain't a single thing wrong with "shilling" stuff that's related to the comic and supports the dude making the comic. Thanks for the heads up :woop:

# ? Mar 24, 2011 01:34

navyjack: Jul 15, 2006

Mylan posted:

. The part that sounds interesting to me is where the Order fights their evil 4th edition duplicates.

That sounds awesome.

# ? Mar 24, 2011 02:38

CapnAndy: Feb 27, 2004; Some teeth long for ripping, gleaming wet from black dog gums. So you keep your eyes closed at the end. You don't want to see such a mouth up close. before the bite, before its oblivion in the goring of your soft parts, the speckled lips will curl back in a whinny of excitement. You just know it.

So, this just occurred to me. Tarquin knows what Draketooth looks like and has information on his whereabouts. The Champ has killed everyone put up against him, even a monster with PC class levels. To do that, you'd need... more PC class levels.

Who wants to bet that Draketooth is The Champ?

# ? Mar 24, 2011 03:32

Nilbop: Jun 5, 2004; Looks like someone forgot his hardhat...

navyjack posted:

That sounds awesome.

As a guy who doesn't know the main difference between the editions, someone walk me through what comedy tropes we could expect to see in this?

# ? Mar 24, 2011 03:34

Spiderdrake: May 12, 2001

CapnAndy posted:

Who wants to bet that Draketooth is The Champ?

Uh, isn't he a halfling Illusionist? I could swear he was, but maybe I'm confusing another member of the other party?

I wouldn't mind if it was related to him though or something. I like Tarquin and these strips have been decent, but I'd kinda like if I felt like the strip was moving towards either the plot, or the main characters becoming better suited to the end game.

Right now I'm just sad about lizard men

Spiderdrake fucked around with this message at 04:08 on Mar 24, 2011

# ? Mar 24, 2011 03:46

Mystic Mongol: Jan 5, 2007; Your life's been thrown in disarray already--I wouldn't want you to feel pressured.; College Slice

Nilbop posted:

As a guy who doesn't know the main difference between the editions, someone walk me through what comedy tropes we could expect to see in this?

The 4e party would be flashy and awesome and always doing amazing attacks.

Then V would kill them all with a single spell.

(I suppose Rich deserves more credit than this but I'm dubious it'll be super memorable)

# ? Mar 24, 2011 04:23

Cabbit: Jul 19, 2001; _{Is that everything you have?}

Nilbop posted:

As a guy who doesn't know the main difference between the editions, someone walk me through what comedy tropes we could expect to see in this?

God, where to start. 4E is to 3.5E what World of Warcraft is to, well, 3.5E. It's even a monthly fee to play. It is bloated to gently caress and back, yet somehow manages to generally only release two books for any given setting ('Player Book' 'Campaign Book'). Any spell that isn't what amounts to a huge nuke or a Reserve Feat from 3.5E takes about twenty minutes to cast; the difference between an illusionist and a 'war wizard' is the illusionist nukes you with psychic damage and you might take a -2 to your attack bonus or be dazzled or whatever.

Christ, I could go on.

Remember Tome of Battle? Imagine if everyone was a Swordsage, even the wizards.

# ? Mar 24, 2011 05:06

Misandu: Feb 28, 2008; STOP.
Hammer Time.

Cabbit posted:

God, where to start. 4E is to 3.5E what World of Warcraft is to, well, 3.5E. It's even a monthly fee to play. It is bloated to gently caress and back, yet somehow manages to generally only release two books for any given setting ('Player Book' 'Campaign Book'). Any spell that isn't what amounts to a huge nuke or a Reserve Feat from 3.5E takes about twenty minutes to cast; the difference between an illusionist and a 'war wizard' is the illusionist nukes you with psychic damage and you might take a -2 to your attack bonus or be dazzled or whatever.

Christ, I could go on.

Remember Tome of Battle? Imagine if everyone was a Swordsage, even the wizards.

And then we all stopped talking about this before people got angry!

# ? Mar 24, 2011 05:08

HKR: Jan 13, 2006; there is no universe where duke nukem would not be a trans ally

Cabbit posted:

God, where to start. 4E is to 3.5E what World of Warcraft is to, well, 3.5E. It's even a monthly fee to play. It is bloated to gently caress and back, yet somehow manages to generally only release two books for any given setting ('Player Book' 'Campaign Book'). Any spell that isn't what amounts to a huge nuke or a Reserve Feat from 3.5E takes about twenty minutes to cast; the difference between an illusionist and a 'war wizard' is the illusionist nukes you with psychic damage and you might take a -2 to your attack bonus or be dazzled or whatever.

Christ, I could go on.

Remember Tome of Battle? Imagine if everyone was a Swordsage, even the wizards.

Grognards.txt is that-a-way

# ? Mar 24, 2011 05:14

Mystic Mongol: Jan 5, 2007; Your life's been thrown in disarray already--I wouldn't want you to feel pressured.; College Slice

For those interested, consult grognards.txt.

# ? Mar 24, 2011 05:15

Bobulus: Jan 28, 2007

To head off any anger: yes, there are differences between the two editions. Many people prefer one edition or the other.

No one here cares which version you think is better. Shut up.

# ? Mar 24, 2011 05:31

crime fighting hog: Jun 29, 2006; I only pray, Heaven knows when to lift you out

Cabbit posted:

God, where to start. 4E is to 3.5E what World of Warcraft is to, well, 3.5E. It's even a monthly fee to play. It is bloated to gently caress and back, yet somehow manages to generally only release two books for any given setting ('Player Book' 'Campaign Book'). Any spell that isn't what amounts to a huge nuke or a Reserve Feat from 3.5E takes about twenty minutes to cast; the difference between an illusionist and a 'war wizard' is the illusionist nukes you with psychic damage and you might take a -2 to your attack bonus or be dazzled or whatever.

Christ, I could go on.

Remember Tome of Battle? Imagine if everyone was a Swordsage, even the wizards.

What's it like to be so wrong?

# ? Mar 24, 2011 05:33

Cabbit: Jul 19, 2001; _{Is that everything you have?}

What's funny is people are going to be saying the exact same thing to you guys when the next edition comes out and you don't agree with their assessment. In any event, this isn't a productive line of discussion.

# ? Mar 24, 2011 06:02

HKR: Jan 13, 2006; there is no universe where duke nukem would not be a trans ally

Cabbit posted:

What's funny is people are going to be saying the exact same thing to you guys when the next edition comes out and you don't agree with their assessment. In any event, this isn't a productive line of discussion.

I've been playing D&D since Advanced and no, I won't be. I actually like fun games.

# ? Mar 24, 2011 06:04

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# ? May 15, 2024 20:53

Mystic Mongol: Jan 5, 2007; Your life's been thrown in disarray already--I wouldn't want you to feel pressured.; College Slice

Cabbit posted:

What's funny is people are going to be saying the exact same thing to you guys when the next edition comes out and you don't agree with their assessment. In any event, this isn't a productive line of discussion.

You could join us over in Grognards, where we like unproductive lines of discussion!

# ? Mar 24, 2011 06:27

The Something Awful Forums > The Finer Arts > BSS: Bisexual Super Son > The Order of the Stick: T-Rex, Troll Sex and Will Checks

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