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That is the luckiest knockout ever. Vaporizing the poor little medium would definitely break zellbrigen, so maybe we leave that to the Rommel. Also, for all of the stupidity of having leader chosen by single combat, the bidding process does inject a lot of necessary political acumen into what would otherwise be an arm wrestling competition, as you need to be able to predict what your allies are going to feel comfortable working with and how to bait people into underbidding right after you so you can watch them fail horribly and then swoop in and steal their prize.
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Mar 28, 2011 20:01
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Angry_Ed posted:For what it's worth I thought the Ghost Bear Dominion could've been a pretty nice place for a non-warrior to live in. If I recall they basically left governance of the planets in the Dominion to the people already there and didn't interfere too much except in cases of defense. They also seemed to treat the lower castes with a degree of respect. And that is why I am Ghost Bear for Life  PoptartsNinja posted:
Oh my dear Leutnant, you have no idea. So, uh, what happends when a dezgra unit interferes in single combat and helps defeat one side? Did we just ensure the gloves come off?
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Mar 28, 2011 20:05
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That is some sweet sweet luck.
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Mar 28, 2011 20:07
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Gay Abortions posted:That is the luckiest knockout ever. Vaporizing the poor little medium would definitely break zellbrigen, so maybe we leave that to the Rommel. But they don't know that, and the Vipers might get in enough of a hissy just having an immobile mech fired upon to go crazy even if the Rommel does it, should be fun to watch.
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Mar 28, 2011 20:11
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Perhaps only the Cyclops should be shooting the unconscious pilot - wouldn't want to break the zelbringen or whatever unless we want to be obliterated by the three heavies in beta star.
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Mar 28, 2011 20:15
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Gay Abortions posted:That is the luckiest knockout ever. Vaporizing the poor little medium would definitely break zellbrigen, so maybe we leave that to the Rommel. We don't know that though, so should I run up and kick it next round?
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Mar 28, 2011 20:18
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enigma74 posted:Perhaps only the Cyclops should be shooting the unconscious pilot - wouldn't want to break the zelbringen or whatever unless we want to be obliterated by the three heavies in beta star. Either option breaks Zellbrigen. However, only the Cyclops (I think) will face retribution if it alone fires at the fallen Nova; that is, if my interpretation is right. In character though, the players wouldn't know that. V V V V VMaybe, maybe not. Imo, it makes sense from the Clan perspective. There is no glory killing a prone foe who can't even make an attempt at fighting back, quiaff? Besides, the article only has one reference anyway, a single page from the Total Warfare book. That's not exactly much to work with. landcollector fucked around with this message at 20:37 on Mar 28, 2011 |
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Mar 28, 2011 20:20
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Is that even Zellbringen? A lot of the stuff in that Sarna article was never mentioned in any of the source or rulebooks. Hell, some of it outright contradicts some stuff I've read about clan duels.
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Mar 28, 2011 20:24
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I was under the impression that a crippled 'mech or unconscious pilot is still very much fair game. You don't gain any great honour from killing a helpless warrior, but you don't lose any either, so long as the prior fight has been conducted honourably. Honestly I think the biggest problem wouldn't be shooting to finish him off, but him being brought down by a tank. That's likely to have pissed someone off.
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Mar 28, 2011 20:46
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If you don't kill that mech now, next turn he will stand up and do roughly a billion damage to the Cyclops. Kill him now.
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Mar 28, 2011 20:48
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Wow, talk about protagonist luck. That's a nasty series of bad rolls for that one mech. Now, I know almost nothing about Battletech beyond what I've read in this thread. What's the status of that mech right now? People are saying it's breaking zellbriggen to attack it while it's down, but it's not going to be getting up right away either. Can that pilot wake up and get up and just keep fighting like nothing's happened? Is he considered to have lost the duel since he's helpless and his opponent could pretty much just murder him? I'd appreciate if someone could clarify this for me. It seems like it would be pretty dumb if the clan honor rules forced one guy to sit around waiting for the other one to wake up and finish what they started.
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Mar 28, 2011 20:51
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God dammit. Quit with the unlikely series of rolls, would you? This'll be tight, once again. Cyclops has already lost quite a bit of armor, and I'm guessing there'll be a series of surprises on both sides. Let's see how it goes.
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Mar 28, 2011 20:53
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Tempest_56 posted:If you don't kill that mech now, next turn he will stand up and do roughly a billion damage to the Cyclops. Kill him now. I'm tempted to go Rocky on him (MLas, AC20, punch with left arm since there's no gun there anymore, and kick) because gently caress mechs made out of bullshit.
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Mar 28, 2011 20:54
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WarLocke posted:We don't know that though, so should I run up and kick it next round? YES, absolutely.
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Mar 28, 2011 21:01
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WarLocke posted:I'm tempted to go Rocky on him (MLas, AC20, punch with left arm since there's no gun there anymore, and kick) because gently caress mechs made out of bullshit. You can't punch and kick. You're limited to a single physical attack (no matter what MegaMek says--they can't program in that limitation for some reason).
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Mar 28, 2011 21:02
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WarLocke posted:We don't know that though, so should I run up and kick it next round? IIRC, Clanners don't freak out over a coup de grace, but who knows how the Steel Vipers might react.
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Mar 28, 2011 21:06
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Remember: These are the Steel Vipers. If anyone is going to call you out on a breach of honorable combat, it would be them. It would probably be worth it, but just know that you are likely turning the Cyclops, if not the entire force, into a huge target for the rest of the enemy.
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Mar 28, 2011 21:17
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PoptartsNinja posted:You can't punch and kick. You're limited to a single physical attack (no matter what MegaMek says--they can't program in that limitation for some reason). That's a new bug for me. It used to work properly.
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Mar 28, 2011 21:18
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Yakumo posted:Now, I know almost nothing about Battletech beyond what I've read in this thread. What's the status of that mech right now? People are saying it's breaking zellbriggen to attack it while it's down, but it's not going to be getting up right away either. What we're seeing here is that there's different levels of how strict zellbrigen is interpreted. At it's most absolute strictness, it includes rules like never firing on a fallen opponent (not unconscious, literally even if they fall over), not shooting an opponent in the back, not shooting an immobilized opponent... So by the utmost strict interpretations of zellbrigen, yes, that's exactly what should happen. The Cyclops will stand there and patiently wait for the Clanner to wake up, stand up and resume fighting. But that level of strictness is super-rare, even within the Clans. Under most circumstances they'd blow the mech away, or at least the pilot would wake up to the bore of an AC20 pressed against his mech's head and a radio request that he surrender. The problem that we're debating is that the Steel Vipers are one of those Clans that ARE super-strict about their interpretation of zellbrigen. So it's a guess on if shooting a man while he's down will piss them off or if they'll let it pass.
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Mar 28, 2011 21:20
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We'll be living dangerously either way. Either the Rommel shoots and maybe doesn't coup de grace it and it savages us next turn, or both shoot and maybe everyone goes melee on us.
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Mar 28, 2011 21:20
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Mukaikubo posted:We'll be living dangerously either way. Either the Rommel shoots and maybe doesn't coup de grace it and it savages us next turn, or both shoot and maybe everyone goes melee on us. gently caress that guy, these guys are full of bullshit, I hope my foot crushes his cockpit. 
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Mar 28, 2011 21:25
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Eh, I say you just stand over it and threaten to kick its head in. The enemy star commander will probably accept a surrender on the mechwarrior's behalf. And if not, you are still in a good position!
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Mar 28, 2011 21:35
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Hooray, I'm helping! Also, I'm all for letting him surrender. Or, rather, be surrendered.
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Mar 28, 2011 21:37
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I have no idea how this game works, but would you be able to set up a Death From Above? Just hope the pilot wakes up and stands his mech up before you land? The tank is probably screwed, however.
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Mar 28, 2011 21:39
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WarLocke posted:gently caress that guy, these guys are full of bullshit, I hope my foot crushes his cockpit. gently caress yes! 
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Mar 28, 2011 21:42
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Let the warrior get up. He's not even a threat while he's down, and speaking in a strictly IC manner you don't know if he's even alive in there or not. Shoot something else for a turn or two or do nothing. If it's not already engaged it could be percieved as you adding a challenge to your other challenge as this opponant is not enough.Helter Skelter posted:In that case, I'm going with the Conjurer. There are a couple other possibilities, but that one seems most likely to me. zeal posted:The Clan Honor stuff reminds me of how the Tokugawa Shogunate built up those labyrinthine systems of honor and obligation for the samurai class to keep the warriors contained when there was no one left to fight and extremely limited contact with the outside world. It's great for keeping a warrior class from ripping the civic peace to shreds, but it's a huge encumbrance whenever your society comes into contact with one that doesn't follow the same rules. W.T. Fits posted:In other words, as far as these so-called REDACTED are concerned, now's the time to put up or shut up. Angry_Ed posted:For what it's worth I thought the Ghost Bear Dominion could've been a pretty nice place for a non-warrior to live in. If I recall they basically left governance of the planets in the Dominion to the people already there and didn't interfere too much except in cases of defense. They also seemed to treat the lower castes with a degree of respect. Ragnar then ended up rising to the rank of saKhan in the bears, and was later elected to the same office his father held. Yeah. Bears know how poo poo works. PoptartsNinja posted:That was the realization that "... Guys, we can take these planets but we can't hold them. poo poo, the civillians aren't playing by our rules and we (the Smoke Jaguars) have a cactus crammed up our asses when it comes to concepts like 'autonomy for our people'. Kill them." The monk was rather thoroughly subjected to anti-Battlemech machinegun fire. It never even occurred to the Clanners that the monk was clearly lying about being responsible. PoptartsNinja posted:The lesson? PoptartsNinja posted:“No penetration,” she breathed again as her sensors updated. “What do they build these things out of, bullshit?” (the not-a-Nova).
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Mar 28, 2011 21:43
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Astus posted:I have no idea how this game works, but would you be able to set up a Death From Above? Just hope the pilot wakes up and stands his mech up before you land? The tank is probably screwed, however. Death From Above requires you be able to jump which, unfortunately, none of our mechs can. Good instinct, though!
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Mar 28, 2011 21:44
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Arquinsiel posted:Yup, especially ones that eat 2 heat between turns It's a nova. 
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Mar 28, 2011 21:50
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Alright how do aimed shots work? I know how we can disable the mech and not get raped. Blow his loving arm off. Clanners would accept that. The tank and the cyclops could both aim at the arm with all they got.
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Mar 28, 2011 21:56
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Tempest_56 posted:Death From Above requires you be able to jump which, unfortunately, none of our mechs can. If only we had a Highlander...
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Mar 28, 2011 21:56
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Diogenes Cynicus posted:If only we had a Highlander... Pity they don't exist, since the plans for them were in the Helm core that ComStar absconded with.
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Mar 28, 2011 21:57
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PoptartsNinja posted:Pity they don't exist, since the plans for them were in the Helm core that ComStar absconded with. Do you mean they don't exist period, or they only exist in the hands of ComStar? Because I can just imagine a bunch of stark white and gold painted Highlanders Goomba-stomping Clan Mechs.
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Mar 28, 2011 22:00
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PoptartsNinja posted:Pity they don't exist, since the plans for them were in the Helm core that ComStar absconded with. WOBBIES  Anyway regarding our little Thunderchild dilemma, depending on how the other side reacts to not being able to raise their mechwarrior on comms they might just declare him defeated and somebody else takes his place. Then he wakes up, doesn't know what's going on, fires on the Cyclops and oh gently caress there goes zellbrigen. I think we're pretty much up against a wall no matter what happens as far as this fight is concerned. Speaking of being against a wall, that's my current problem. Now I could advance on the Battle Cobra and try to light it up with everything that isn't a PPC, or I could try to duck back but I think either way I'm not getting the best of the exchange. I do know that standing still is definitely out of the question however.
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Mar 28, 2011 22:05
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Angry_Ed posted:I think we're pretty much up against a wall no matter what happens as far as this fight is concerned. Speaking of being against a wall, that's my current problem. Now I could advance on the Battle Cobra and try to light it up with everything that isn't a PPC, or I could try to duck back but I think either way I'm not getting the best of the exchange. I do know that standing still is definitely out of the question however. I'll tell you this much - you're sure as hell not gonna win against him at range.
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Mar 28, 2011 22:08
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Diogenes Cynicus posted:Do you mean they don't exist period, or they only exist in the hands of ComStar? Because I can just imagine a bunch of stark white and gold painted Highlanders Goomba-stomping Clan Mechs. The technical term is "Highlander Burial". 
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Mar 28, 2011 22:11
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Tempest_56 posted:I'll tell you this much - you're sure as hell not gonna win against him at range. Well that and there's only so far I can back up so even if I could get more range I'd be pretty much cornered in less than 2 turns.
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Mar 28, 2011 22:12
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I so want to give advice here, but I've been doing that less and less every game. I'll leave it to someone else to take charge and figure out the best course of action for the Banshee.
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Mar 28, 2011 22:13
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Angry_Ed posted:WOBBIES I'd advance. His range is vastly superior to yours and he's going to be faster than you are. Your best bet is to get in close and maybe hope for a chance to kick his leg off.
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Mar 28, 2011 22:13
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Ha, I didn't even think about asking for a surrender. Might be worth trying, if just for hilarity purposes given in-game i'm guessing Dusk doesn't know about bondsmen to demand it and we won't be sticking around here next game.
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Mar 28, 2011 22:15
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Wait, regardless of the fluff, the Nova would have fallen regardless of any action by the Rommel tank? Ah, whatever using the tank was for the best. That was a really great turn  .
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Mar 28, 2011 22:23
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