|
a life less posted:You can work on crate games if you're serious about wanting your dog to stay put, and exercise the restraint to jump up and follow you if you'd like. It's a pretty common behaviour for a lot of the high drive dogs -- mine is the same way. Eventually I just stopped caring if my shifting in the chair woke her. If I'm serious about her staying put I bring out the crate since I've done exercises to teach her that she does not exit a crate until I say okay, even if the door is open. Thanks! I'm not at all bothered about her staying put - it's nice to have her come upstairs and be on guard/keep me company - I just felt a little like a heel for waking her up. Even if I did crate games with her, she'd probably still jolt awake; she does like to know what's going on. When she's older and I can start more hardcore exercise with her (jogging, more fetch, etc) that might kill some of her lingering energy.
|
#
?
Mar 28, 2011 19:57
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 16, 2024 11:12 |
|
|
Fraction posted:Thanks! I'm not at all bothered about her staying put - it's nice to have her come upstairs and be on guard/keep me company - I just felt a little like a heel for waking her up. Even if I did crate games with her, she'd probably still jolt awake; she does like to know what's going on. I wouldn't feel bad about it because there's really nothing you can do. Some dogs are just hypervigilant. It took my dog six months to be able to voluntarily hang out in a different room than me. She still opens her eyes every time we move around, but she doesn't jump up instantly anymore unless we make a big noise. It just takes time for them to settle in and I think they'd do it no matter how much you exercise them, unless you did it to the point of utter exhaustion.
|
|
#
?
Mar 28, 2011 20:26
|
|
|
My husband and I are hitting a bit of a wall with our 6 mo. old corgi. Waffles seems to be extremely anxious of being left alone. Neither of us has to actually leave home for work, so we've always been present. He whines when just one of us leaves and paces constantly. Anytime that we've attempted to leave for an extended period of time with him not being crated - he poos. Like, out of schedule poo. We think he might just do it because he gets scared we're never coming back. Also, when he does poo, he eats it. Several times. So, by the time we get back we've discovered something horrible awaits us. We've bought the stuff to put into his poo so that it won't look as appetizing, but I don't think it's really working. Does anyone have any recommendations on how to stop the fear poos? (Or, at least, that's what we think they are.) We're both going to be shifting into jobs that require us to physically be out, so it can be a big problem really soon. Also, his balls are going adios this Thurs. Will this make him any less sassy (it would be nice)? 'Cause I swear, we gotta get him to training classes as soon as he's recovered and able.
|
|
#
?
Mar 29, 2011 04:05
|
|
|
Why don't you leave him crated? It sounds like it's only a problem when you don't crate him, so the easiest thing is to crate him while you're gone, which lessens teh chances of all kinds of bad stuff happening. If you're against doing that, you probably need to start small and not try to jump all the way to leaving him unsupervised for extended periods of time. Start at like 10 minutes, then build your way up. Don't make a fuss when you leave, and don't make a fuss when you get home (don't acknowledge him getting all excited or crazy about seeing you) and wait until he calms down before giving him attention and treating him. This is kinda more in line for separation anxiety training but it will hopefully help him realize that you leaving is no big deal and that might help the pooping. Just tossing ideas off the top of my head and others probably would have better details. I think poop eating can sometimes be a stage they grow out of too, but don't quote me on that. But really I'd advocate crating him while you're gone. It's not going to hurt him or make him bored or anything. e: VVVV - Listen to alifeless more than me, she's right about making you're leaving the exciting event and not your returning (instead of what I said to make both of them ho hum experiences). But really, crate the dog if this is a big problem Levitate fucked around with this message at 14:31 on Mar 29, 2011 |
|
#
?
Mar 29, 2011 14:10
|
|
|
busydelicious posted:My husband and I are hitting a bit of a wall with our 6 mo. old corgi. Sounds like classic separation anxiety (SA) to me. SA is my least favourite thing in the world to deal with since, with it presenting when you're gone, it's pretty difficult to actively train out. Start with picking up the book I'll Be Home Soon by Patricia McConnell. It will give you a better idea of what Waffles is feeling, and will give you exercises for desensitizing him to the leaving process. Someone else with a Corgi was having trouble 2-3 pages ago. Take a look at their question and some of the suggestions here. The basic idea is that you want him good and tired before you leave so he's more inclined to sleep while you're gone. Then you want to make you leaving an enjoyable process for him -- give him a treat he only gets when you leave the house. A treat that will last him a long time, like a stuffed frozen kong, a pig's ear or a bully stick. And then, when you return, ignore him for 10-15 minutes and just be really mellow -- make your return pretty damned boring. You'll start incorporating desensitization by going through the motions of preparing to leave but then stopping short of actually leaving the house, or you may leave for only 30 seconds. Just run these drills often so he doesn't start thinking that the moment you reach for your keys he's worried that you'll be leaving him FOREVER. Definitely pick up that book -- SA is a complex problem and McConnell addresses it much better than us, a bunch of yahoos on a message board can. Edit: Yes, and crate him if you're not already. I couldn't tell if you were in your post. Edit number two: As for the de-balling, no, it's not going to immediately mellow him out. You're probably dealing with a bad case of "puppy" right now, and the only cure is time and training. I believe neutering will be beneficial in the long run, but for now you'll probably not be able to notice a difference pre and post balls. It's never too early to begin training. Find a nice positive reinforcement class where they'll teach you how to teach your dog. The actual teaching of the dog is a lifelong process, as they're learning every second of every day. a life less fucked around with this message at 14:20 on Mar 29, 2011 |
|
#
?
Mar 29, 2011 14:10
|
|
|
 Why isn't my dog learning to hang her head? Here's how I'm teaching her:1. Hold up high value treat (cat food because it's the only thing she'll follow with her nose and she LOVES it and I never let her eat it) 2. Say "hang your head" and slowly bring the treat directly down from her nose 3. As soon as she lowers her head, click + treat She'll do it every time if move the treat down, but she doesn't seem to be really making the connection between what I'm saying and what I want her to do. The other tricks i've had issues with (roll over) were hard because I couldn't get her to do the behavior - for this one she's doing the behavior but only if I move the treat down for her nose to follow. Generally after two or three trick learning sessions she'll do it for me if she doesn't see the trick, but not this one. Is looking down just something dogs aren't overly comfortable doing and that's why she won't do it without me moving the treat down so she'll follow it, or am I just impatient?
|
|
#
?
Mar 29, 2011 15:01
|
|
|
That thing I sent posted:
#1 - Don't put the command to the behavior until she's offering it reliably. You're luring, that's incentive enough. Name it once she's got it down. Otherwise it's just white noise she has to tune out. #2 - Phase out the treat in your hand. Do it a couple of times with the treat in your hand, then do it the same way, just minus treat. Start moving towards no treat with the luring. (If you have to, make like you get a treat, but don't actually pick it up. Your hands will still stink.) #3 - Once you've phased out the treat, make her keep the head down briefly before clicking. Increase this interval of waiting. #4 - Read Pat Miller's Positive Training book. He covers some of this stuff pretty well, and you should be able to infer how to make some of these tricks work if you step back and consider them. Also, if you're struggling with #2, change the way you treat. Don't let her have the treat you lured with, give her one from the bag with the other hand.
|
|
#
?
Mar 29, 2011 15:12
|
|
|
MrFurious posted:#1 - Don't put the command to the behavior until she's offering it reliably. You're luring, that's incentive enough. Name it once she's got it down. Otherwise it's just white noise she has to tune out. Awesome, thank you much, I'll try that. They didn't have that book at my library - my library is filled with romance novels and "Why you don't just Jesus as much as you should" books, but once I get some extra income I'll swing by Amazon.
|
|
#
?
Mar 29, 2011 16:22
|
|
|
RizieN posted:Its been a while PI...but I've got a bit of an issue. You already got some great advice, but your comment about Sagan's behavior at the dog park is exactly how my dog was. He is also a herding mix and he used to go to the dog park daily when we first adopted him. He was pretty timid, would rarely wrestle, and mostly just stalked and chased/was chased by other dogs (herding stuff). After the adoption honeymoon period was over, he became really leash reactive, but was still timid at the dog park. When we finally decided we were way over our heads in trying to fix his issues, we got in contact with a trainer and she advised us to stop taking him to the dog park as it was doing more harm than good (pretty sure it exasperated his anxiety issues big time). If I were you I would seriously consider giving her a break from the dog park until you have worked on her leash reactivity issues or maybe taking her when it's much quieter or you know the dogs there aren't going to bug her. Sounds like she is anxious at the park too, just she isn't restrained by a leash, so she's coping by avoiding other dogs/hiding. Just my 2 cents. Also, I am a big fan of Cosmo, and now Sagan too  I miss seeing Cosmo's goofy face around.
|
|
#
?
Mar 29, 2011 17:46
|
|
|
a life less posted:Sounds like classic separation anxiety (SA) to me. SA is my least favourite thing in the world to deal with since, with it presenting when you're gone, it's pretty difficult to actively train out. Wow, thanks so much for the information! I'll try and get that book today. We do crate him when we leave for 1-2 hours, maybe a little more than that. But if there's an event going on or a long-rear end movie playing that we really wanna see, it doesn't seem right to leave him in the crate for 4+ hours. Plus, he could fear poo in his crate. He's done that. It got everywhere. He rolled in it when he was freaking out and he only REALLY cries when he's made a mess like that. It was an awful thing to behold. We're moving into a house with a backyard (we're in an apt, atm) and I wonder how he'll handle the move AND us trying to get him less freaked out about us leaving. Do you think that the presence of another dog will help him out with coping? Waffles has been over to the house, played with him and such, but I have no idea how he'll take actually living with him. Again, many, many thanks for the advice. It'd just be nice to actually be able to go out and do something without dreading about what he's done. PS - He is housebroken. Has his own little area that he'll straight out bolt to when he has to go. It's just that it doesn't seem to matter after the first poo when he starts to freak out.
|
|
#
?
Mar 29, 2011 18:13
|
|
|
busydelicious posted:PS - He is housebroken. Has his own little area that he'll straight out bolt to when he has to go. It's just that it doesn't seem to matter after the first poo when he starts to freak out. Wait, just clarification here, is this 'little area' that he uses actually inside your home or outdoors? Because if you're using potty pads I would cut that out right now and rely on conventional crate housebreaking, since that could be a biiiig part of your poo-while-gone issue. Potty pads = not housebroken, fyi.  If not then ignore this and just continue following a life less's advice. Other than that, I would caution you to avoid thinking that a move to a new unfamiliar place and a new strange dog will help him; it may actually set him back if you haven't put in the correct associations to help him adjust, so you'll want to step up your training. You mentioned wanting to get him into a class after he's neutered, but honestly he should've been in classes this whole time. Six months is a long time to wait for that, IMO. You can start sessions at home now to begin the effort, but training needs to be first priority with puppies, and it sounds like you waited quite a bit. Captain Foxy fucked around with this message at 19:50 on Mar 29, 2011 |
|
#
?
Mar 29, 2011 19:48
|
|
|
RurouNNy posted:Sounds like she is anxious at the park too, just she isn't restrained by a leash, so she's coping by avoiding other dogs/hiding. Just my 2 cents. She's only been about 3 or 4 times, but I think I will limit the visits. I had thought about trying to train her on the leash there, since I have a bit more control when she sees a dog. But I think I'll just keep doing it around the apartment and limit the dog park visits. quote:Also, I am a big fan of Cosmo, and now Sagan too I'll be sure to post more (check the at play thread), I've been really busy (which doesn't help with Sagan's behavior issues...) and on vacation last week (and then Cosmo apparently forgot he was house broken). Edit; I don't want to jinx anything, but dare I say we may be making progress. We were out front to go potty and she noticed a person across the street getting into their car, and made a little huff/puff noise then looked at me. I treated her and praised her and she sat down, she looked kind of anxious to turn around and scream at this person, but patiently sat while I treated her and praised her. Then two girls had to come walk by and GUSH OMG PUPPPPPPY  which set Sagan off, but in the midst of that chaos I did manage to get her to focus on a handful of treats held to her snout, and she focused on my long enough for the girls to walk away. It's not going to be a quick fix, but I think if I keep it up, and don't lose my patience this could work out.
RizieN fucked around with this message at 01:35 on Mar 30, 2011 |
|
#
?
Mar 29, 2011 21:01
|
|
|
I guess this can go in the training thread... I'm curious if there's any way to help improve the way my dog interacts with other dogs. The basic thing is that Greta looooooves to meet other dogs, gets super amped up and excited (sometimes out of control but we're trying to work on her with that) until she gets face to face with them, and then she usually gets really submissive (she'll get low, sometimes roll over for them). This usually isn't a problem, and I think it tends to happen more with big dogs, but as long as they just sniff and then let her get up, she usually bounds up and is all excited again. Then when she plays, it makes her nervous if other dogs chase her (unless she plays with them enough to get a comfort level it seems) and she'll either go to the ground if she thinks they're really coming after her, or often she'll just run around and then head back to sit by a human for a minute before running off again. Basically, she's kind of nervous about playing chase with other dogs and will get really submissive if they're kind of pushy. This isn't a HUGE deal by itself and she always bounces right back up perky and happy so I'm not that concerned about her being scared and upset and all of that. But it is turning into a problem when there are other dogs who are aggressive and like to loom over her, growl at her while looming or chasing her, or just be REALLY pushy. She'll go submissive and then if they don't back off quickly, she reaches her limit and will go after them, barking and snapping and the whole bit. Again, after things calm down she's usually tails up ears perked and not looking too stressed. Basically I worry that she's getting into a habit of just going after dogs in these circumstances and that her threshold is already kind of low. It hasn't seemed like a big problem until recently where it seems like there's always that one rear end in a top hat dog that will run over to her and growl and stand over her and not let her up until she says "gently caress you" and goes after it, or will start to chase her while growling and trying to nip her. So, one thing, I need to do a better job keeping her and other dogs from getting into these situations, even if it means just leaving the dog park. But is there something I can do to help raise that threshold of hers so she isn't so put off by more aggressive dogs, or isn't as submissive? It seems like some dogs just looooove to take advantage of another dog that acts submissive and will cause problems with her that they don't with other dogs.
|
|
#
?
Mar 30, 2011 15:50
|
|
|
I had abdominal surgery the other week and I'm just about recovered from it so this last week and a half I've not been able to walk the dog and I've been trying to train him a couple of simple tricks with free shaping (new to both me and Charlie). He's getting on well with roll over but when I tried changing it up with "cover your eyes" (not actually using the command yet) he wants to eat the tape and if I can actually get it on his nose he immediately tears it off and attempts to eat it even though I'm clicking like mad and offering a ton of food. Not really sure what I can do about this, anyone have any ideas for teaching it an alternate way (or getting him to stop eating absolutely everything)? Or should I just try other tricks.
|
|
#
?
Mar 30, 2011 17:27
|
|
|
 Dumb question ahoy!Sooo, I've hit a rut with Koji and his tricks. I'm bored and I'm sure he doesn't care about doing the same four tricks over and over but I want to change it up with new things. Any video series or books (with illustrations, I'm that kind of learner) you guys would recommend? I have a few ideas of what I'd want to start teaching, but I want to know where to go from there. Koji picks up on tricks FAST so a good list would be appreciated to keep us going.
|
|
#
?
Mar 30, 2011 19:21
|
|
|
I just stole some of the tricks from a life less's video of cohen Penny can now do. sit down weave (go between legs and come back to front) shake (once with each hand) high five (while sitting) roll over crawl pivot (I put my old xbox on the floor for her to put her feet on and then she pivot's around keeping her front feet on the xbox and moving her back feet) She's working on the doing the last 3 reliably still but it gives us a change. When she doesn't want to do tricks she'll play fetch for awhile too. I make her give me the ball back in my hand or she doesn't get a treat. Also doing tricks in the kitchen vs the living room vs the backyard makes a difference to her too. She didn't seem to have any interest in putting her paws over her eyes so I'll have to wait til she's older to do those. If she really doesn't want to do tricks then I'll just walk around the house or yard on leash and work on loose leash walking.
|
|
#
?
Mar 30, 2011 19:39
|
|
|
Levitate posted:I guess this can go in the training thread... I'm on the opposite side of the spectrum. When Cohen sees one of those uber-submissive dogs she's on them like white on rice. I think it gives her an ego boost since she's generally unsure of herself in other doggy social settings. So, on behalf of all the rear end in a top hat dogs giving yours a hard time, I apologize. The other owners should be watching their dogs like hawks and need to interrupt inappropriate behaviour, and possibly leave the group if the behaviour continues. Ideally they should be able to catch it before it happens and react accordingly. That's what I do. I can peg a dog at 50 yards as the type of dog Cohen likes to bully, so I'll preemptively leash her or leave. It's kind of a pain the rear end, but that's how it's gotta work sometimes. (I also use a "leave it" type command if I see her start to wander in their direction.) So, since you're coming at it from the opposite end, I think you also need to become adept at identifying the traits of problem dogs at a distance and be preemptive and get control of Greta. In my opinion, it should always be the more aggressive dogs who bear the responsibility of antisocial behaviour, but not all dog owners have gotten the memo about this, so it's likely you'll end up being the one to leave. If you know she's had issues with Dog Z before, leave the next time Z comes by. Bring a back up ball or something for her to play with instead of dogs and move to the other end of the park at least. I think the confidence will come in time as she grows. I think her confidence will grow faster if you're able to limit the number of negative experiences she has, even if it means cutting down on socialization in the short term. Her lashing out is completely unsurprising, and in my opinion, completely acceptable. She's giving every single appeasement behaviour in the book and the other dogs are essentially social retards and not picking up on them. Ideally you'd never want her to turn to violence, but it happens. Your job now is to catch the triggers before it ever escalates to this point again. As far as actual training, you can work on using a calm cue, or a settle, or just a sit/down/stay for a short while so her excitement doesn't peg her as a target again. ydaetskcoR posted:I had abdominal surgery the other week and I'm just about recovered from it so this last week and a half I've not been able to walk the dog and I've been trying to train him a couple of simple tricks with free shaping (new to both me and Charlie). If you're running into your dog repeatedly patterning into the behaviour you're not looking for when teaching a trick I tend to suggest you just shelve it for a little while and try a new one. I don't know of other methods to teach a dog to cover its face, so if the tape is presenting a problem just move on. Maybe try something similar like teaching your dog to target something with its nose or chin. Very quickly you can turn that into a "be sad" or "head down" type of trick. Something like this:  I've not gotten around to teaching that yet, but I should... paisleyfox posted:
At my school's tricks class we teach spin, twist, sit up, wave, crawl, sleep, weave walk, chin down, "gimme 5" and "put 'em up". We focus on those since they're relatively simple to teach, and are a lot of fun to learn. I recommend just googling/youtubing how to train each instead of spending  on a book. Plus... moving images!And you want to see a crazy dog trick video? Take a look at this one. It makes me green with envy. And of course, Jesse is always awesome. Just pick something that appeals to you! Also, have fun with it. Also also, post videos.
|
|
#
?
Mar 30, 2011 20:35
|
|
|
a life less posted:I'm on the opposite side of the spectrum. When Cohen sees one of those uber-submissive dogs she's on them like white on rice. I think it gives her an ego boost since she's generally unsure of herself in other doggy social settings. So, on behalf of all the rear end in a top hat dogs giving yours a hard time, I apologize. Even if the other dogs will offer some give and take, she'll work with them, it's just the ones who want to be like "here let me stand over you and growl at you no really this is just how I play" that upset her. There was a (bigger) dog who wanted to play with her and wanted to play rough, and at first she was kind of taken aback and nervous, but it kept offering her the chance to initiate and jump on top of it and so she started having a pretty good time playing. quote:So, since you're coming at it from the opposite end, I think you also need to become adept at identifying the traits of problem dogs at a distance and be preemptive and get control of Greta. In my opinion, it should always be the more aggressive dogs who bear the responsibility of antisocial behaviour, but not all dog owners have gotten the memo about this, so it's likely you'll end up being the one to leave. If you know she's had issues with Dog Z before, leave the next time Z comes by. Bring a back up ball or something for her to play with instead of dogs and move to the other end of the park at least. Yeah, I can usually peg the problem dogs now but I guess I just need to get over feeling bad about leaving if they're around. It kind of sucks if she's having fun with another dog though. quote:I think the confidence will come in time as she grows. I think her confidence will grow faster if you're able to limit the number of negative experiences she has, even if it means cutting down on socialization in the short term. Will do. My worry is that her tolerance before lashing out might be getting lower so it's probably time to start being really strict about supervising and making sure it doesn't happen. Thanks
|
|
#
?
Mar 30, 2011 20:44
|
|
|
a life less posted:At my school's tricks class we teach spin, twist, sit up, wave, crawl, sleep, weave walk, chin down, "gimme 5" and "put 'em up". We focus on those since they're relatively simple to teach, and are a lot of fun to learn. I recommend just googling/youtubing how to train each instead of spending  Man...I know I'm still in love with this and this though I have an inkling how I can get Koji to bark or talk (it's different!) on command, since I can already do it, I just don't have a command to go with them. Wave is one I wanted to work on, as well as gimmie five, but Koji is so drat sensitive with his paws that the tricks I heard to teaching them don't work (like putting something tasty in your fist and eventually they'll paw at your hand..yeah, Koji just stares at me and huffs. Even at hot dog.) and putting the word to it before he got the command while taking his paw just got it so he took the weight off his paw for me to take it. Clearly I'm doing this wrong. 
|
|
#
?
Mar 30, 2011 21:40
|
|
|
Another Major update now that my computer is fixed and shearing is over. We're now three months in to his travel anxiety work and one month away from our next in person session with Dr. Feltes our vet behaviorist. Things are still crawling along. We're pulling out of the driveway and going about a quarter of a block and he's just fine with that. I even backed into my mailbox a couple times (on the same trip  ) and Major didn't even get up. Unfortunately when I tried going half a block (2 houses down in my area) he started whining and refusing to take food until we were back in our driveway. That was really frustrating because we were doing so well. I don't know if it was the turning around part or the distance or the fact that it was a different time than usual but he hasn't whined that much in months. Even when I forgot his easy button at the beginning of one session he didn't whine that much. It wasn't hysterics or screaming and he was ok when we got inside but it was still discouraging. Major has also been having issues with the neighbor dogs still. At one point he was just sitting on the couch shaking because he could see them outside walking around their house but was trying not to lunge at the window. I've got stick on frosted window plastic now which has taken care of that stress and we're still working on counter conditioning but like the car its very slow going. The Dr. says we have it harder than a lot of her patients because the dogs around here are just loose and randomly show up in my yard on a regular basis. This upcoming in-person session with the behaviorist we are going to revisit the possibility of trying pharmaceutical anti-anxiety meds. Part of me is resistant because he is making progress without them but I feel like this car issue is holding us back from so many other things. He's also anxious around the house and has taken to randomly barfing which the Dr. thinks may be anxiety related so its not like I'm drugging him just for the car. Oh well, we'll see what happens in May. I would also like to say again how amazing Dr. Feltes and her team are. Before I could even call to set up my appointment I got a call from her secretary saying that the Dr. had told her that I needed a recheck in May and she was calling around to the other clients in my county so we could all go on the same day and split the travel fee. Yes, seeing a vet behaviorist is expensive but they really want to help and are worth every penny!
|
|
#
?
Mar 31, 2011 15:36
|
|
|
Instant Jellyfish posted:Another Major update now that my computer is fixed and shearing is over. It sounds like Major has made a lot of progress, which is great, but I'm sorry you seem to have hit a plateau. I think that talking about anti-anxiety meds is a great idea especially if Major is having a lot of anxiety around the house. I think, after seeing my dog, that there is a large level of anxiety that can be present without us even noticing because dogs can't just tell us how they feel. If Major is showing his anxiety around the house often, it's a safe bet that he is probably stressed all the time at some level, even when he looks fine. I have noticed two changes in my dog thanks to Prozac. The first about five weeks after we started her on a low dose was noticeable to everyone in her class and now just recently we increased the dosage because she was pulling fur off her tail. The change here was pretty immediate. The tail fur pulling has decreased almost to zero (there was an attention whore component to that though) and she has had an almost complete attitude change toward people. Unless they are doing something crazy, she has started just checking them out and then leaving off or completely ignoring them and even let a friend of ours who has been working with her into our apartment with minor fuss. Now I know that the meds are no substitute for training, but I think they are worth it, besides the changes I mentioned, because she has shown other signs of relaxing. In the last couple weeks she has started to go lay in the other room and actually stay there even with us up and doing things. This is unprecedented. Previously she was completely unable to relax all the way, had to be near us no matter what we were doing and would jump up as soon as we moved. This is, of course, in addition to lunging and barking at the windows/doors whenever she heard someone outside. Now she can't be bothered to get up most of the time and more often gives tiny barks of protest rather than flying into a barking fit. I really think that it has improved her quality of life. Our next step is to move to a more quiet environment and I think the meds will let us bridge that to the point where she will get used to being relaxed and improve in her classes more quickly until the point where we can back her off the meds without losing the 'habit' of being relaxed. So anyway, I think it's worth a try if the vet behaviorist agrees. Stress becomes a quality of life issue when it is affecting dogs this badly, in my opinion.
|
|
#
?
Mar 31, 2011 18:14
|
|
|
Kiri koli posted: Its great to hear Psyche is doing so well.I don't have any problem with using meds and I have been on them myself, I just have been beating myself up about not being able to do more and "if only..."s. I think you went through a similar process (I may be remembering someone else)? There's just a lot of stigma around it. Especially in my area where 95% of dogs don't even have collars. I swear the next person who tells me I'm wasting my money and to just crack the window for him is going to get punched in the face. On a happier note I'm working on clicker training my livestock to do some basic husbandry behaviors. I've got my head ewe standing on a platform so I can check her hooves but I have to wait to build duration until she isn't explosively pregnant. The goats have finally settled in so the big buck is next. He seems clever so maybe eventually I can get him into some goat agility. This summer I hope to get some chickens and my vet behaviorist is hoping to have a seminar on chicken camp so maybe I'll work with them too.
|
|
#
?
Mar 31, 2011 19:55
|
|
|
Instant Jellyfish posted:I don't have any problem with using meds and I have been on them myself, I just have been beating myself up about not being able to do more and "if only..."s. I think you went through a similar process (I may be remembering someone else)? There's just a lot of stigma around it. Especially in my area where 95% of dogs don't even have collars. I swear the next person who tells me I'm wasting my money and to just crack the window for him is going to get punched in the face. No, that was definitely me. I don't have any experience with these kinds of medications myself and in the beginning I felt like I was doing the same thing as all those parents who throw their kids on Ritalin because they're acting like kids. It didn't help that the vet I talked to decided my dog was nuts in like two seconds and was ready to hand us the drugs two seconds after that. Ultimately I decided to do it for two reasons 1) a drug like Prozac has a short list of relatively mild side effects and can be backed off of at any time (slowly is best, of course) and 2) I was going to watch my dog like a hawk for any negative changes, particularly in her personality. I kept her on the lowest dose possible for more than a month after they said we should raise it because it was the bare minimum for her weight. I wanted to make sure we'd seen the full effects and then we just raised it to try and improve her stress level at home (we were afraid she might self-mutilate her tail); otherwise I would have relied more on training. In the end, it was the right decision, I think, but it's good to agonize over it and not take it lightly. I love that clicker training works on livestock. I want to get my friend to clicker train his cat (who does trick or two already), but I'm afraid I talk his ear off about dogs too much already...
|
|
#
?
Mar 31, 2011 20:26
|
|
|
Kiri koli posted:I love that clicker training works on livestock. I want to get my friend to clicker train his cat (who does trick or two already), but I'm afraid I talk his ear off about dogs too much already... You should! When I lived in an apartment I clicker trained my roommates cats to stand up but then one developed a condition where he had really strict food requirements so I trained my guinea pig instead. Frankly the pig was easier to do free shaping with than the dog is and it really teaches you to be patient.
|
|
#
?
Mar 31, 2011 21:35
|
|
|
Is it possible to do this kind of training with a food guarding dog? I've never owned one before but the dog I'm looking at adopting apparently has some food issues, and I don't want him to feel like he has to battle me for food or something. That being said, I'd love to do clicker training with him. I feel like it'll be a good way to keep him mentally stimulated and interact with him in a meaningful way. All of my family's dogs were taught the old fashioned way: treats, and lots of GOOD GIRL, so I'm interested in seeing how this makes it easier/different to teach a skill or shape a behavior.
|
|
#
?
Apr 1, 2011 00:08
|
|
|
wtftastic posted:Is it possible to do this kind of training with a food guarding dog? I've never owned one before but the dog I'm looking at adopting apparently has some food issues, and I don't want him to feel like he has to battle me for food or something. By "this kind of training" do you mean clicker training? Depending on how it's applied it's not much different than the treat training you're familiar with. Of course, you also mentioned shaping, which, to die-hard shaping enthusiasts, is the be-all and end-all of dog training. It's an off-shoot to clicker/R+ training. Food guarding (aka resource guarding) is a very common problem, and can be completely trained out with a lot of care and consistency. Take a peek at this PDF by Jean Donaldson and then go out and buy her book Mine!. By you hand feeding most of the dog's meals to him by hand you should be able to noticeably reduce his desire to guard around you. Then, with setting up a series of exercises and working around his threshold you should be able to gradually lower its occurrence over time.
|
|
#
?
Apr 1, 2011 02:37
|
|
|
Double post -- sorry guys. I've added these two articles to Section 4 of the OP, and I'm also going to post them here since I think they're important. Deposits into a Perfect Recall Account by Susan Garrett (a must read for those having trouble with recalls) Training Reminders by Susan Garrett I like that the recall article actually sets out how long a time frame you're working within -- that's something that's always been elusive for me. And we always need a few reminders to help with our training. I'm all about Susan Garrett crap right now, so I hope you'll forgive me mentioning her a bunch over the coming weeks.
|
|
#
?
Apr 3, 2011 01:43
|
|
|
a life less posted:CAT I know this is a pretty old post, but I thought I should say that this is exactly what we do with horses that are afraid of things. It is also used for breaking them with the saddle and blanket. It's called sacking out. Eventually the scary plastic bag/rope/whatever calms them down.
|
|
#
?
Apr 4, 2011 08:11
|
|
|
a life less posted:Double post -- sorry guys. Ephy is progressing well but she's becoming willful. It's really our fault, we've worked so much the last few weeks she hasn't been getting reinforcement.
|
|
#
?
Apr 4, 2011 23:08
|
|
|
Bailey is hatting on his no pull harness; he hates when I try and put it on and will lay on the ground. He's a puller, and while I work on that I need the harness for his and my sake! He'll mouth my hands, which is upsetting, and I'm trying to figure out efficient ways to break him of the habit. He knows the harness and leash mean walkies so I'm not sure why he's such a pain about it.
|
|
#
?
Apr 5, 2011 20:20
|
|
|
wtftastic posted:Bailey is hatting on his no pull harness; he hates when I try and put it on and will lay on the ground. He's a puller, and while I work on that I need the harness for his and my sake! You need to make putting on the harness a happy thing. Do some reading on Sophia Yin's website about counter conditioning in addition to the OP for two basic primers to the principles you'll be applying. My wife is awesome at this stuff and she always yells at me about not doing enough of it. As soon as you pull out the harness, start showering him with treats until his butt wiggles. You are not putting it on him at this point, you are just making it visible. As he starts to respond positively, start getting closer to putting on him -- USING BABY STEPS. I cannot stress that piece enough. Tiny bits at a time. Eventually, you want to start treating him through it. Hold a treat out and hold the harness up so that he has to stick his head through it to get the treat. When he is doing this without any hesitation you can start putting it actually on him, while treating him the entire time. Once you get to this step, it's unclear whether you should take him for a walk or just have him wear it for a little while and keep feeding him treats. If walks are a big fun thing for him, they can be the reinforcer to wearing the harness, and that's the end goal anyways. But since you ARE using a no pull, they are likely to be somewhat frustrating for him, so I think I would recommend you just work up to having it on for 5-10 minutes while being happy about the whole experience. If you do this diligently this could take as little as 4-5 days. Try to focus on exercising him indoors with games and play in the meantime.
|
|
#
?
Apr 5, 2011 20:38
|
|
|
I've already run into snags with the perfect recall training. Sometimes, Ephy just doesn't feel like coming to me. Even if she's not distracted, she just looks at me like "nah I'm cool". This is bad, since she's showing that she considers it optional. What do I doo?
|
|
#
?
Apr 5, 2011 21:36
|
|
|
MrFurious posted:You need to make putting on the harness a happy thing. I will try to do that; he actually doesn't really know how to play yet! He was a farm, then shelter dog, so I feel like he didn't get a lot of activity other than RUN RUN RUN or walking around. Should I just take him out on a leash then and deal with getting jerked around or what? I live in an apartment, so he needs to go out to relieve himself.
|
|
#
?
Apr 5, 2011 22:02
|
|
|
wtftastic posted:I will try to do that; he actually doesn't really know how to play yet! He was a farm, then shelter dog, so I feel like he didn't get a lot of activity other than RUN RUN RUN or walking around. No, don't let him drag you around because you're reinforcing the pulling. If he pulls, you come with him and he gets to go where he wants. That's exactly what you're trying to correct. Our puppy is a bit of a puller and we have been working on it for months using a variety of tricks and it is finally coming under control. The tricks aren't complicated, but they can be logistically difficult to maintain consistently, because of things like apartment living. You need to take him out on a leash obviously, so he can go to the bathroom. You have a couple of different options, and you'll have to decide what is best based upon your dog's personality and the individual situation. 1 - You can leash him up via the collar and take him out. The instant he starts pulling, you freeze like a statue and you do not move. You don't want to pull back on him, but you want to be the immovable object that he cannot sway. He can pull and pull as much as he wants, but that leash is only so long. Be cautious with this because if he continues to pull hard enough that he is wheezing, he can collapse his trachea. If this is a problem, you need to not use this method with a collar. Switch to the no pull harness or make him wear a standard harness when you aren't using the no-pull. 2 - You can put the no-pull on even for bathroom breaks. This will help desensitize him to it, but if he is showing signs that he is really uncomfortable with the whole thing, it may just make the whole process slower and more difficult. I'll also give credit to a life less here with a final tip -- do not use a retractable leash, especially since you are working on leash manners. She first mentioned this to me a few months ago and after thinking about it, it finally clicked with me. Retractable leashes are a variable, and as a result they actually degrade the idea that your dog is expected to remain with a specific distance of you because that distance changes at whim, and that whim is largely theirs to control.
|
|
#
?
Apr 5, 2011 22:20
|
|
|
MrFurious posted:Wise leash words Yeah I'm not using a flexi lead; I got a nylon, fixed length lead for him. I always put the no pull on him, even for pee breaks, since I use those bathroom trips as sniff around and walk time as well. Honestly he seems to love going out, so I don't know what the issue is with him. I'll try a different kind of harness for him if this keeps happening.
|
|
#
?
Apr 5, 2011 22:27
|
|
|
I have a pair of older dogs, (a 10 year old Westie and a 6 year old Yorkie mix), and I've started clicker training them. Their favorite food is cheese, and they will do anything for even a tiny piece of Velveeta. Would cheese be a good reward, or is it unhealthy?
|
|
#
?
Apr 5, 2011 22:31
|
|
|
^We use cheese all the time. Not velveeta, but we use cheap american cheese. I would just glance at the calorie content and go with the option that is tasty and has less calories. And of course, switch things up and use cheese in moderation. Your dogs might get bored if you use the same thing all the time.wtftastic posted:Yeah I'm not using a flexi lead; I got a nylon, fixed length lead for him. I always put the no pull on him, even for pee breaks, since I use those bathroom trips as sniff around and walk time as well. You've got some great advice to work on. I just wanted to add to keep in mind that wearing the harness and the act of putting it on might be separate in your dog's mind. He might hate one and not mind the other or hate both separately. In the beginning, if he hates the putting it on part but seems okay once it's on, I would go ahead and leave it on for the times when someone is home and you know you'll be going outside fairly often. My dog wore her harness almost all the time until recently when we were home. That way you can start with a smaller number of times a day you need to put the harness on and work your way up to the normal amount.
|
|
#
?
Apr 5, 2011 23:34
|
|
|
Thanks for the great tips everyone; I did some clicker work (sit, down, come, some crate games, and some leash and halter work). He's obviously very food motivated, but even his kibble will get him going. When he was in the zone, he didn't even care if I jangled the leash around and had the halter out, and he even let me drape it around his neck. Crate games probably need the most work. I had to chuck kibble in there and click him when he went in. Is it worth also clicking him for just calmly looking at the crate?
|
|
#
?
Apr 6, 2011 01:46
|
|
|
I was at PetCo getting some supplies for the new dog and I overheard part of their pre-obediance class meeting. The trainer was explaining how clickers worked and how they were going to train the dogs to go to a certain spot when asked. She seemed to really know her stuff and I was really surprised to see someone like that at PetCo. We will be taking her class if they offer it on a night I have off next time.
|
|
#
?
Apr 6, 2011 03:38
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 16, 2024 11:12 |
|
|
wtftastic posted:Bailey is hatting on his no pull harness; he hates when I try and put it on and will lay on the ground. He's a puller, and while I work on that I need the harness for his and my sake! Warning. Take the following article with a grain of salt. The blog it's posted to doesn't reflect my preferred training style, but it's interesting nonetheless. No-Pull Harnesses Aversive? I bought a no-pull harness for Cohen a while ago. I just wanted something that I could attach a leash to off her neck, and I figured a no-pull would do. Well, she kind of really hates it. She would get visibly depressed when I would take it out despite CCing when it was around. My boyfriend uses it on her each time he takes her out, and he constantly has to fight with her to put it on. I've just gone back to a regular collar and all the evasive behaviours disappear when I put it on. No pulls are great for some dogs, but not as good for others. I would try a lot of counterconditioning before you decided not to use it, as per MrFurious's advice. Just some food for thought. Gonktastic posted:I've already run into snags with the perfect recall training. Sometimes, Ephy just doesn't feel like coming to me. Even if she's not distracted, she just looks at me like "nah I'm cool". This is bad, since she's showing that she considers it optional. What do I doo? First, I would recommend you start using a different recall word and build it up from the bottom up. If your recall cue has turned into a "come if you feel like it" then it'd probably be worth it to start using another that isn't negotiable. (Here, pronto, au pied, etc...) Second, you're probably going a bit too far too fast. Work in tiny little increments, and on leash so you can follow up each cue if necessary. Plus the closer proximity will make your dog much more likely to comply. Third, your recall should be the happiest, must funnest thing EVAR to your dog. It sounds like she's bored, quite honestly. Work on playing games, chasing around, tugging, fun obedience or whatever when you recall. Maybe she's full and that bit of liver just isn't doing it for her. Ever since I started putting more energy into interacting and playing with my dog off leash she's become much much more reliable when called to come. Fourth, restrained recalls are your friend. Have someone hold your dog and act like an idiot, really psyche her up and then run away. She should really be straining to get to you. This goes a long way to build value and excitement for coming to you. Then when she's right about to get to you, whip out a toy or food and have a party. Fifth, make sure you're using your reinforcement (food or toys) as a reward and not a bribe. Sixth, 'cause I'm typing too much, read a few posts here: http://successjustclicks.wordpress.com/ I think the posts around 28 Mar - 1 Apr dealt with recall, and she highlights some common problems and solutions. Fame Throwa posted:I have a pair of older dogs, (a 10 year old Westie and a 6 year old Yorkie mix), and I've started clicker training them. Their favorite food is cheese, and they will do anything for even a tiny piece of Velveeta. Would cheese be a good reward, or is it unhealthy? Cheese is great -- it's one of my dog's all time favourites. Just remember your dog is much much smaller than you, so a cube of cheese for them is like a turkey dinner to you... with cheese on top. You'll probably want to use it sparingly for the toughest stuff. Training small dogs with food can be tough since they normally can't eat much, and gain weight easily if they overeat. So keep an eye on their weights and enjoy the cheese. a life less fucked around with this message at 03:47 on Apr 6, 2011 |
|
#
?
Apr 6, 2011 03:44
|
|