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PoptartsNinja posted:Because 'Battletech'. Really, guys, it's annoying but not really worth thinking too hard about. True. How about "The Warhammer IIC, a second-line Mech, is more desireable than the Man O' War Omni of the same tonnage". Discuss. I'd make the case for the Rifleman, but I'm terrified of a Loki with advanced construction materials.
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Mar 31, 2011 22:51
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PoptartsNinja posted:Because 'Battletech'. Really, guys, it's annoying but not really worth thinking too hard about. PTN you know that is what the internet is for. Well that and porn...a broadway show taught us this.
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Mar 31, 2011 22:58
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GhostStalker posted:So why is a Lieutenant General lower than Major General? The Merry Marauder posted:True. How about "The Warhammer IIC, a second-line Mech, is more desireable than the Man O' War Omni of the same tonnage". Discuss.
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Mar 31, 2011 22:59
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Honestly the more I think about it the less I feel we should ever break zellbrigen unless we can overpower the clanners by doing it. Right now we have 3 assaults versus like 5 assaults and 3 heavies. If the clanners want to keep challening us to fair fights where they cripple their own abilities who are we to argue? Right now we can bag a Mad Dog if we play things right. If we cheat they can crush us. If say two more assault lances showed up we could reconsider. This plays both to our win condition (last 20 turns/defeat Beta Star) and to increase the overall success of the defense of Somerset. The Steel Vipers invade with the entire Fourth Viper Guard, a cluster of at most ~80 omnimechs. We're tying up 10 of those right here with 3 assaults and 1 light. The longer we fight and the more we bring down should have an effect on the rest of the battles on planet. The 2nd Donegal Guard should have around 120 mechs and 36 fighters along with hundreds of tanks and thousands of regular groundpounders. So we might eventually lose here but maybe the Unwearied Second can hold off this invasion after all.
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Mar 31, 2011 23:01
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Arquinsiel posted:Because that's how NATO does it? It all dates back to the Roman tendancy to call the direct subbordinate officers the "Lieutenants"/Tribunes of the Imperator/Dux/Legatus (depending on period). No, in NATO, Lieutenant Generals (3 Star, O-8) outrank Major Generals (2 Star, O-7). See my earlier post: GhostStalker posted:If I'm remembering my NATO officer ranks correctly, Brigadier General is a one Star (O-6), Major General is a two Star (O-7), Lieutenant General is a three Star (O-8), and a full General is a four Star (0-9).
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Mar 31, 2011 23:05
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^^^^ Sorry, totally misread your post. You are correct. RE: boots on the ground. According to Battleforce 2's numbers for an RCT: quote:132 BATTLEMECHS®, Instead, assuming the published 3062 numbers for the 2nd Donegal Guard RCT are correct there are 172 mechs, 36 Aerospace Fighters, 324 Vehicles, 4860 Infantry. Ish. Logically it would be a stomping, and I'd bet I could do it to most people on the tabletop using those numbers with bugger all difficulty. Doubly so if the Clans bid away strength and kept Zellbriggen. Arquinsiel fucked around with this message at 23:18 on Mar 31, 2011 |
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Mar 31, 2011 23:08
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The Merry Marauder posted:True. How about "The Warhammer IIC, a second-line Mech, is more desireable than the Man O' War Omni of the same tonnage". Discuss. Well, I always thought of it like this: the old 'mechs are really drat good at what they do, as proved by their continued existance in basically the same overall condition as they were over 300 years ago. Sure, they've been upgraded, but the idea is the same, the tactics are the same. With the clans, if it didn't work they wouldn't use it or spend the resources to upgrade them. Also important in the consideration is that Omni's are designed to be convertable for any situation, meaning that they don't excell in many of them and can easily let a pilot down if they aren't experienced with a certain loadout. tl;dr: the old mechs were designed for a job, did it well, and do it better when upgraded.
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Mar 31, 2011 23:22
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Arquinsiel posted:^^^^ The Second isn't an RCT until later, possibly as late as 3039 in the main timeline. Right now they're a Kampfgruppe, which is kind of like an RCT but not a permanent arrangement and not as uniform in composition. It could be anything from an attached armor company to eight full assault tank regiments and a full wing of fighters.
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Mar 31, 2011 23:40
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Well an RCT isn't a specific size either. The 4th Deneb Light Cavalry has one less armour regiment, four more air wings and three less infantry regiments.
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Apr 1, 2011 00:01
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Wow. Given those numbers (80 clan omnimechs vs huge planetside army) we are delaying 12.5% percent of their total force with a pittance. Holding for 20 turns would, in Total War (video game) terms be a heroic victory.
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Apr 1, 2011 00:14
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enigma74 posted:Wow. Given those numbers (80 clan omnimechs vs huge planetside army) we are delaying 12.5% percent of their total force with a pittance. Holding for 20 turns would, in Total War (video game) terms be a heroic victory. Perhaps, but I'd consider it more that they're humoring themselves, letting you think you have a chance. If they really wanted to kill you (i.e. no Zellbrigen), they would steamroll the players in a few rounds.
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Apr 1, 2011 00:18
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Also PTN did specify that the 2nd Donegal were spread out on neighboring systems as well. So the numbers might not actually be that much in favour of our heroes. Also <REDACTED> numbers are unknown!
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Apr 1, 2011 00:19
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How many seconds is a turn? Is 20 turns really a long amount of time in the grand scheme of things? (Especially seeing as this is the Starport and therefore the most important real estate on the planet).
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Apr 1, 2011 00:19
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Alchenar posted:How many seconds is a turn? Is 20 turns really a long amount of time in the grand scheme of things? (Especially seeing as this is the Starport and therefore the most important real estate on the planet). I wouldn't get bogged down in specifics when it comes to how long a turn is in seconds. It should be however long the flavour needs it to be.
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Apr 1, 2011 00:21
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Arquinsiel posted:Well an RCT isn't a specific size either. The 4th Deneb Light Cavalry has one less armour regiment, four more air wings and three less infantry regiments. Yeah, there's variation but the RCT still has a general template. A Kampfgruppe is literally anything.
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Apr 1, 2011 00:24
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Alchenar posted:How many seconds is a turn? Is 20 turns really a long amount of time in the grand scheme of things? (Especially seeing as this is the Starport and therefore the most important real estate on the planet). Roughly speaking, flavor aside, a game turn is around 10 seconds of in-universe time (I think). So the primary victory condition is to survive about 3 1/2 in-universe minutes (in between the fluff conversations). Rather sobering, no?
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Apr 1, 2011 00:27
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^^^^ A RCT's only real definition seems to be "a Regiment of Mechs and at least one bit of everything else" TBH. Affi posted:Also PTN did specify that the 2nd Donegal were spread out on neighboring systems as well. So the numbers might not actually be that much in favour of our heroes. Turns work out to roughly ten seconds IIRC, but it's mostly ignored for drama purposes. This is fine. Arquinsiel fucked around with this message at 00:33 on Apr 1, 2011 |
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Apr 1, 2011 00:29
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ShadowDragon8685 posted:I'm going to start at "hips deep" and say that it could go so bad as to resemble some particular forms of hentai that some people find either disturbing or highly erotic or possibly both at the same time. I'd call it ankle deep in the poo poo, soles up. 
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Apr 1, 2011 00:29
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Alchenar posted:How many seconds is a turn? Is 20 turns really a long amount of time in the grand scheme of things? (Especially seeing as this is the Starport and therefore the most important real estate on the planet). A turn is aproximately the length of time a PPC takes to recharge.
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Apr 1, 2011 00:32
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The Merry Marauder posted:True. How about "The Warhammer IIC, a second-line Mech, is more desireable than the Man O' War Omni of the same tonnage". Discuss. The problem with the Man O' War is that it's an oversize Timber Wolf, and suffers from that oversizing. It moves as fast as a Charger at the same weight, which means it has a 400XL engine, and it also uses Ferro instead of Endo, which makes it inefficient. More importantly all its configs have room for both Ferro + Endo, and if you load it with Endo you get 2 more tons to play with after maxing its armor, which makes it suddenly a lot more impressive. Alchenar posted:How many seconds is a turn? Is 20 turns really a long amount of time in the grand scheme of things? (Especially seeing as this is the Starport and therefore the most important real estate on the planet). It's supposed to be about 10 seconds.
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Apr 1, 2011 00:41
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The Merry Marauder posted:True. How about "The Warhammer IIC, a second-line Mech, is more desireable than the Man O' War Omni of the same tonnage". Discuss. Like others have said, the Warhammer the IIC model is based on was designed fairly well. The weapons loadout on a Warhammer IIC is primarily energy-based, so barring heat management issues and repairs it effectively has unlimited battle endurance. The Gargoyle, however, was designed with a primarily ballistics centered weapons loadout. If it depletes the ammo bins of its 2 LB 5-X ACs and 2 SRM-6s, its only remaining weapon system is the lone ER Small Laser. Also, the weapons on the Gargoyle aren't exactly hard hitting. The only thing that can inflict more than 5 damage per shot is the SRM-6, and that at close range only. In comparison the Warhammer IIC's weapons hit much harder. Note that this comparison is made using the prime configs. of each mech. As for the Rifleman IIC vs. Hellbringer debate; I love the Rifleman IIC, but I think the Hellbringer is better in some respects. The ER-PPCs have a slightly better max range, the Hellbringer is faster, and it carries an ECM Suite (which renders the Rifleman's Active Probe useless once affected). The Rifleman, however, is not without its pluses though. At long range, it can deal more damage (up to 40 vs. 30). Also, the Rifleman has thicker armor. Again, my comparison was made using each mech's prime configuration.
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Apr 1, 2011 01:12
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Alchenar posted:How many seconds is a turn? Is 20 turns really a long amount of time in the grand scheme of things? (Especially seeing as this is the Starport and therefore the most important real estate on the planet). 10 seconds per combat turn.
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Apr 1, 2011 01:30
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The phrase "the Rifleman is better armored" blows my mind.
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Apr 1, 2011 02:13
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Defiance Industries posted:The phrase "the Rifleman is better armored" blows my mind. It's true though. Rifleman IIC: 11 tons Hellbringer: 8 tons
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Apr 1, 2011 02:27
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landcollector posted:It's true though. The IIC Rifleman is actually a very well armored design, and can be a surprisingly vicious fighter.
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Apr 1, 2011 02:34
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The Highlander IIC is the one true IIC
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Apr 1, 2011 02:55
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GhostStalker posted:So why is a Lieutenant General lower than Major General? This has always annoyed the hell out of me.
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Apr 1, 2011 03:02
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landcollector posted:It's true though. It's just the word "Rifleman."
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Apr 1, 2011 03:09
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Perhaps off-topic, but this thread makes me want to dig out my old MW 2 disc and install it on a Windows 98 equipped computer I have sitting around. Ah, the memories....I had so much fun playing that game way back when.
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Apr 1, 2011 03:23
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What does the IIC stand for? "Version 2, Clan" or something?
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Apr 1, 2011 03:35
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landcollector posted:Perhaps off-topic, but this thread makes me want to dig out my old MW 2 disc and install it on a Windows 98 equipped computer I have sitting around. Ah, the memories....I had so much fun playing that game way back when. 1) Good for you 2) Why in the hell do you still have a computer with windows 98?
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Apr 1, 2011 03:35
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elitebuster posted:1) Good for you Answer: I have some old games that I like to play every so often, and I don't feel like messing with finicky emulators for my other machines.
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Apr 1, 2011 03:48
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Chronojam posted:What does the IIC stand for? "Version 2, Clan" or something? Yup. My favorite explanation of it, though, was this guy on the official forum insisting it was "Innersphere Inspired Clantech."
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Apr 1, 2011 04:04
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landcollector posted:Answer: I have some old games that I like to play every so often, and I don't feel like messing with finicky emulators for my other machines. I personally have one sitting around (not hooked up) because it's the only machine I've got with a floppy drive in it, and sometimes I need easy access to ancient programs it has on it. When you're doing tech support for people, you can never assume they'll be using stuff from this century.  As long as it's not your primary rig, I'm not sure what the big deal is having a backup sitting around running an old OS.
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Apr 1, 2011 04:06
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Aesirstorm posted:The Highlander IIC is the one true IIC Urbanmech IIC. 
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Apr 1, 2011 04:26
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Mukaikubo posted:The IIC Rifleman is actually a very well armored design, and can be a surprisingly vicious fighter. Main problem with it is that it's very slow so while the Hellbringer is much more mobile. They're designed for different tasks.
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Apr 1, 2011 05:04
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this thread. has eaten up a solid day of my life. but now I get to go find some goons to kill in megamek so it balances out, thank you.and its Version 2, Clan
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Apr 1, 2011 05:44
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landcollector posted:The Gargoyle, however, was designed with a primarily ballistics centered weapons loadout. If it depletes the ammo bins of its 2 LB 5-X ACs and 2 SRM-6s, its only remaining weapon system is the lone ER Small Laser. Also, the weapons on the Gargoyle aren't exactly hard hitting. The only thing that can inflict more than 5 damage per shot is the SRM-6, and that at close range only. In comparison the Warhammer IIC's weapons hit much harder. Note that this comparison is made using the prime configs. of each mech. You know, the best explanation I ever found for the Gargoyle's prime configuration is that FASA released, around that time, a Solaris box set, which gave you rules for more in depth one on one duels. In that system, each turn was 2.5 seconds and weapons could take more than 1 turn to recycle, up to 4 turns. Of the Gargoyle Prime's weapons systems though, all of them took only 1 turn to recycle, making it absolutely brutal (and because it could generate four times the heat it can in normal Battletech, making those 16 fixed DHS go to good use). Imagine the Gargoyle Prime putting out 8 LB-5X shots, 4 ERSL shots, and 48 SRMs per turn, and it suddenly becomes a lot more impressive in a single duel, and shows just how deep the Clan way of life influences designs and makes suboptimal frontline weapons.
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Apr 1, 2011 07:04
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MJ12 posted:In that system, each turn was 2.5 seconds and weapons could take more than 1 turn to recycle, up to 4 turns. Of the Gargoyle Prime's weapons systems though, all of them took only 1 turn to recycle, making it absolutely brutal (and because it could generate four times the heat it can in normal Battletech, making those 16 fixed DHS go to good use). As an interesting point, the Battletech MU*s use elements of this in their systems - low calibre ACs fire more often. I believe AC5s fire twice as often, AC2s and MGs fire three times. It actually does a lot to make them more viable. The Pike and the Partisan-AC2 are both actually quite deadly, since they can throw a LOT of fire downrange at a remarkable rate of speed.
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Apr 1, 2011 07:13
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The way they decided to make every gun have the same RoF is quite weird. The idea that one roll accurately represents a multishot gun is a bizarre handwave, and the fact that missiles roll separately makes it even odder. Coming from a background of primarily playing the Mechwarrior games, it's tough to wrap my head around the idea that a light pulse laser and a PPC are handled the same way in the BattleTech rules.
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