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Affi posted:Don't count on some arbitrary shoving to win you this game. This is an LP not a tournament. He might just get up and walk back on the board for all you know, there is no flavour reason for him to be out of the fight unless there is a cliff right on the edge. Actually, PTN made it quite clear (way back when,) that if someone gets Shoved off the map, they are considered defeated and disabled. So yes, an arbitrary Shove off the map will defeat this Clanner if you knock him off the edge. But will it win the match? Not necessarily. Depends on whether or not the rest of the Steel Vipers take it in stride or if they spergrage harder than I did and throw Zell to the winds.
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Apr 2, 2011 20:13
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ShadowDragon8685 posted:Actually, PTN made it quite clear (way back when,) that if someone gets Shoved off the map, they are considered defeated and disabled. How would PoptartsNinja even write for that? Okay so the dude got shoved out, and so he has an explosive heart attack and dies. 
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Apr 2, 2011 20:15
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Well, this is the universe where most people pilot giant tin cans wearing the upper part of first generation scuba gear and otherwise beach shorts for "cooling" while sitting in an oven. Anything could happen! I've long since given up any hope of Battletech not being completely retarded and just laugh at all the hilarious mental images (do please post more BT related fluff, the inbred characters are my favourites). It's like a box of chocolate, you never know what you'll get?  I don't quite know who to root for in this fight anymore, the Steel Viper clowns or the bad rear end underdogs(? They are up against proper idiots but you know what I mean).
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Apr 2, 2011 20:15
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Tempest_56 posted:Rommel - 1120. AC20 into B5's guts. Put his rear end down. While the Rommel may not be able to get through the trees, if the Hellbringer's armor is a thin as it is in canon, it's definitely worth tossing an AC/20 slug at it.
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Apr 2, 2011 20:17
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ShadowDragon8685 posted:Your LP 'mechs scare me. Using the 2.0 BV ratings makes the Config. C Dire Wolf even more powerful, with a rating of 3,610.
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Apr 2, 2011 20:19
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Artificer posted:How would PoptartsNinja even write for that? Well, here's how I would write it: The Cyclops hauls back, seeing a rare opportunity, and mightily shoves the Clan 'mech for all the strength its myomer can muster. The Clansman, completely unexpecting the crude physical push, is caught unawares, and his 'mech is forced backwards, stumbling and trying to remain upright, arms pinwheeling for balance as the off-balance machine attempts to catch its balance. Unfortunately for the Clan pilot, the opportunity the Cyclops's MechWarrior sighted was a loaded munitions truck and a coolant truck parked side-by-side on the tarmac, waiting to reload and cool down a 'mech that never came. The 'mech's heavy foot stumbles backwards into the massive tank of the coolant truck, and it topples over backwards, the torso of the 'mech landing square on the munitions truck. It detonates in a massive explosion that lifts the alien machine from the ground a good five meters before collapsing it backwards into a twisted, wrecked heap of junk metal, coolant spilling and myomer bundles sparking as the flame from the inferno created by the liquefied oxygen scorches the once-proud gray metal black.
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Apr 2, 2011 20:22
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landcollector posted:Using the 2.0 BV ratings makes the Config. C Dire Wolf even more powerful, with a rating of 3,610. That's the rating I quoted for it.
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Apr 2, 2011 20:23
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ShadowDragon8685 posted:That's the rating I quoted for it.  Reading Comprehension failure in progress...
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Apr 2, 2011 20:25
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I feel I should start out with a little reviewer background. First, I’d like to mention that I am mostly unfamiliar with the BattleTech setting. I’ve been paying some attention to what’s said in this thread, and I played MechWarrior 4, but the former is altered and scattershot, and the latter is a microcosm that ignores most of the setting. I couldn’t quote you the numbers for any given PPC, I can’t tell a Steel Viper from a Steel Cage, I don’t know what ‘mechs are good or bad or why or what they carry, and I have no idea who any of these people are or why they have fandoms and/or hatedoms. This essay will not be about nitpicking what Far Country gets right or wrong, because I have no idea which nits to pick. I’ll tell you what I do know, though: science fiction. In the “Space Opera” setting, that is, any story or series set long after humankind has colonized the galaxy, aliens are generally used in one of three ways. First, aliens can be used essentially as background color. Extraterrestrials basically stand in as either slightly or significantly different foreign nationals, possibly with a language barrier but not always. The point or theme of the story is not about our differences, but instead the differences are used to make a setting feel more exotic or interesting. This is the approach used in Star Wars and Farscape, not to mention quite a few fantasy settings. The second approach is to give each alien species a theme, or “hat,” and to base the story and conflict around our differences with them. This sort of alien is very often an obvious allegory to an existent or past culture, subculture, or minority, although sometimes the author gets creative and builds a culture that would be unsustainable among humans. Unless communication is a central theme, there won’t be a language barrier since you can’t share pathos with someone you can’t understand. This is how Star Trek works, as well as Doctor Who. Of course, I should add that there is a lot of overlap between these first two approaches, especially if the setting is home to multiple stories and authors. The third approach is to simply toss the idea of aliens right out the window and populate the galaxy with humans alone. Settings that take this option will generally feel more political, acting more as a high-tech alternate history than anything else, and the characteristics of opposing factions will be lifted more blatantly from existing cultures and nations, mixing and matching in a way that only the distant future could allow for. BattleTech shares this approach with the Dune and Foundation series. Of course, from what I’ve heard, Far Country breaks with this approach by adding aliens to a humans-only Space Opera. Now I’m not saying this should never be done, but doing so needs to be treated with caution. After all, particularly in a space-faring future, first contact with non-human sapience is a Big loving Deal that Changes Everything. Since humans already fill the basic niches, the aliens should be properly alien: inscrutable, unknowable, most often uncommunicative, and operating on a logic and instinct that’s utterly incompatible with human sensibilities. And there’s no going back, either: even if the aliens are a threat and are defeated, humanity will always be just a little more frightened and curious about the unknown space beyond its borders. This is the approach taken by Freespace, Freelancer, and Aliens. Will Peter L. Rice nail this approach? Will he blow his load early? Is this book only offensive to those steeped in the setting and is secretly “just okay” to those of us with a casual knowledge? Let’s find out as we read: Far Country
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Apr 2, 2011 20:25
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Bobbin Threadbare posted:Far Country No, stop! Turn back, before it's too late! You're talking about a book so horrible that Border refuses to acknowledge its existence! Turn back! This is a book whose inside cover reads "Abandon Hope, All Ye Who Enter Here," like the entrance to Moria, or Ry'leh, or the New Jersey Motor Vehicle Commission. (Guess what I renewed Thursday...)
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Apr 2, 2011 20:29
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Tempest_56 posted:Wolfhound - You are pretty much hosed. He's bigger than you, better armed and you may or may not be able to outmaneuver him. Run to 1021. Laser the crap out of him and kick his drat head in. He's already called you a dishonorable dog, you might as well show it and brain him with your foot. Call the clanner out on being a pussy taking on a tiny little scoutmech with his better giant clanmech. Demand he declare some proper conditions.
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Apr 2, 2011 20:40
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DatonKallandor posted:Call the clanner out on being a pussy taking on a tiny little scoutmech with his better giant clanmech. Demand he declare some proper conditions. Against a Clanner? I'd say the conditions demanded should be that he fights with only his small lasers. 
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Apr 2, 2011 20:42
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I think that the wolfie has the best chance up north around the smoke and fire, but getting there is the hard part.
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Apr 2, 2011 20:48
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ShadowDragon8685 posted:Against a Clanner? I'd say the conditions demanded should be that he fights with only his small lasers. You really should call him out, because the pilot is really good and might maybe be able to make it. Or give him a condition, tell him that because of your weight-difference he isn't allowed to use his jumpjets (if any?) or that he's only allowed to walk 1 square per round (and get in behind him)
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Apr 2, 2011 20:48
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Affi posted:You really should call him out, because the pilot is really good and might maybe be able to make it. Or give him a condition, tell him that because of your weight-difference he isn't allowed to use his jumpjets (if any?) or that he's only allowed to walk 1 square per round (and get in behind him) One hex per round might work. It's not far enough to give the Wolfie the Target Moved 2-3 (or more) hexes penalty, but enough to give the pilot the "walked" penalty. And if the Wolfie is dashing at its full speed, he'll give the Clanner a fairly high penalty.
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Apr 2, 2011 20:52
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ShadowDragon8685 posted:One hex per round might work. It's not far enough to give the Wolfie the Target Moved 2-3 (or more) hexes penalty, but enough to give the pilot the "walked" penalty. And if the Wolfie is dashing at its full speed, he'll give the Clanner a fairly high penalty. and as long as he doesn't get ACE he can get in behind him repeatedly.
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Apr 2, 2011 20:53
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By the way, I've been meaning to do this for a while now. For those who are interested in BattleTech and would like to play some now, there is MegaMek. In case you're a bit confused or scared, here's what you do. Install the Latest Dev Snapshot, version 35.22, from The MegaMek Downloads Page. Don't go with "Latest Stable," because it sucks and nobody uses it and it's actually a lot less stable than the dev snapshot. Now, to maximize the utility you get out of MegaMek, you should also pick up MegaMekLab from The Related Projects Page, as it allows you to build your own 'mechs, and vehicles, and <Redacted>. (no turrets/Aerospace/exotic vehicles like WiGEs yet, I'm afraid.) 'Mechs you make on your own need to go somewhere into your MegaMek/Data/mechfiles folder. Feel free to make a subfolder if you want, it won't give you any issues. To maximize the funinity you get out of MegaMek, download and install Jake's Camo Pack. To install it, download the .zip, open it (combine these into one step if you wish,) and extract all the images inside to MegaMek/Data/images/camo. Do NOT use a subfolder. MegaMek looks for images in the exact same place to determine if it's the same camo. If it finds (for instance,) on my computer, MegaMek/data/images/camo/[clan]-[ds]-rho-galaxy.gif; and on your computer MegaMek/data/images/camo/subfolder/[clan]-[ds]-rho-galaxy.gif, it will not recognize us as having the same camo pattern, and neither of us will see the other's camo. It's not smart enough for that. Also, you may wish to install Jake's Map Pack if you plan on hosting a lot, or practicing a lot against the AI. Those maps go in MegaMek/data/boards and can go in any subfolder you like. The only boards it cares about are the ones on the host's computer. Now that you have MegaMek, how do you use it? Well, join us and ask if we want a game! There's usually a fair few goons hanging out (mostly AFK,) in #MegaMek on synIRC. ShadowDragon8685 fucked around with this message at 22:23 on Apr 2, 2011 |
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Apr 2, 2011 21:05
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Affi posted:and as long as he doesn't get ACE he can get in behind him repeatedly. And break Zell by doing so. The Clanner will probably get pissed if he keeps doing that and just blast him to shreds. Or worse, call down the whole big guns star on the lance.
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Apr 2, 2011 21:06
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ShadowDragon8685 posted:And break Zell by doing so. The Clanner will probably get pissed if he keeps doing that and just blast him to shreds. Or worse, call down the whole big guns star on the lance. Oh right.. well challenge him that they can only fire on eachothers backs and pray he never gets behind you ? :P
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Apr 2, 2011 21:13
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Try challenging him to a coin toss, and claim you call the side for the other person. Then call "edge".
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Apr 2, 2011 21:29
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Forgive me from being nonplussed by the modern-tech meets Battletech discussion, which inevitably happens whenever new people are introduced to the system and is no doubt very interesting to them.PoptartsNinja posted:Trees are impassable for tanks. Unless this is a house rule, tracked vehicles can go into light woods. (such as 1120)
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Apr 2, 2011 21:34
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elitebuster posted:Try challenging him to a coin toss, and claim you call the side for the other person. Then call "edge". No need for the trickery. Clanners challenged to coin tosses as Trials have called Edge all on their own, under the reasoning, "Imagine the glory if I had won."
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Apr 2, 2011 21:46
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ShadowDragon8685 posted:Now, to maximize the utility you get out of MegaMek, you should also pick up MegaMekLab from The Related Projects Page, as it allows you to build your own 'mechs, and vehicles. (no turrets/Aerospace/exotic vehicles like WiGEs yet, I'm afraid.) It may have been reduced to a running joke at this point in the thread, but maybe you could edit your post as I did above? Don't want any hints leaking out.
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Apr 2, 2011 21:47
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elitebuster posted:Try challenging him to a coin toss, and claim you call the side for the other person. Then call "edge". Why give a ghost of a chance? Bet that it won't come down at all. Bobbin Threadbare posted:Let’s find out as we read: My big reason why I dumped doing this in favor of a single, prologue-based list is just how far it wanders from the familiar places and characters we might know from, well, anything else. It seems like more of a poor adventure story than "Battletech". Of course, if you've got plans, go for it. Just sharing the potential pitfall I see.
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Apr 2, 2011 21:53
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“Prologue” We start with a Prologue, which takes place in 2510, which as I recall puts it around 500 years before the Clan Wars, the official start of the setting. We are introduced to Chu-sa Tokashio Hamata, who is apparently busy staring down a sandstorm as his mixed battalions get ready to leave the planet. quote:A samurai did not flinch from an armed enemy, much less an attack by mere dust. Neither did a battalion commander. Neither did a graduate of the Sun Zhang MechWarrior Academy. And Tokashio Hamata was all three of these. Hamata then spots a woman (a woman?!?!) driving an APC, and he reflects upon how, in spite of giving up the backwards samurai tradition after it almost killed them in WWII, Space Japanese samurai have a long tradition of holding to ancient, obsolete traditions like keeping women out of combat zones. You know, in spite of the Space Japanese themselves having equal opportunity laws in place. Tradition! It’s also mixed in with a kind of weird question of where the guy is standing. He’s apparently standing on the loading ramp since it “trembled under his feet,” despite the fact that the APC is slightly too wide for the ramp and he’s not being run over by the woman driver in a fit of ironic pique. He then reflects on some sort of new-fangled “combat ‘mechs,” although they aren’t called such. I guess the MechWarrior Academy just handled mechanized infantry or something. I’m not sure what year ‘mechs hit the markets, so whatever. He also thinks about how the command staff is feeling useless during the loading operation. Hamata sure loves to think, but that’s okay, we’re still at the exposition stage. We then have a fairly nice description of the DropShips lifting off. And as a side note, I sure hope whoever transcribed this to a PDF was in a hurry, because there are a lot of spelling and grammar errors, and any other explanation would make me feel sad. quote:The only person Hamata needed to consult was the battalion priest to learn the outcome of the omens for the trip. When those came back as “uneventful,” there was nothing more to do. Following that revelation, we get four uneventful paragraphs describing the DropShip’s uneventful journey to the JumpShip. Then we jump rather startlingly to the creation of the universe, six billion years ago. Never mind that it’s actually closer to twice that. Perhaps it has something to do with how our understanding of space apparently hasn’t advanced since the late 20th century. But it turns out we were wrong! because there are some outright tears in space or something that act as wormholes and guess what, one’s headed straight for our protagonist’s JumpShip. So apparently hyperspace in BattleTech is like opening a door into another room. I know this because Peter Rice decided I should read that simile twice in a row, and then once later when it actually happens. We then get a nice, long bit of technobabble bullshit on how the hyperdrive works, and I’m not sure why it was worth explaining, since those who don’t understand don’t care and those who do understand feel insulted that we’re expected to buy the explanation. Then, poo poo starts going down. The ship starts to rock and jolt at a time it has no right doing so, and the navigator gets bisected in a rather unnecessary bit of gruesome description. The navigation computer laughs in the captain’s face, then everything finally calms down. The ship is in bad shape, but it managed to barely survive the spatial tear. Somehow pulses from the rupturing fusion plant play havoc with the ship’s systems and make the bad situation even worse as time goes on, and the ship slowly shuts down and breaks apart over the next few days as they attempt to reach a nearby, possibly habitable planet. quote:Then the life support, structural integrity, and engineering panels on the bndge [sic] flashed red, every panic light coming on. Indeed, the rosy hue from so much red light gave the bridge the almost cozy look of light from a campfire. But those who knew what was happening didn’t find the effect either cozy or comforting. I can tell we are in good hands. But those of you who have read this book probably don’t find the effect either good or hands.
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Apr 2, 2011 22:00
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ZeeToo posted:My big reason why I dumped doing this in favor of a single, prologue-based list is just how far it wanders from the familiar places and characters we might know from, well, anything else. It seems like more of a poor adventure story than "Battletech".
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Apr 2, 2011 22:01
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NmareBfly posted:It may have been reduced to a running joke at this point in the thread, but maybe you could edit your post as I did above? Don't want any hints leaking out. Alright. ShadowDragon8685 fucked around with this message at 01:37 on Apr 3, 2011 |
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Apr 2, 2011 22:23
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The Merry Marauder posted:Forgive me from being nonplussed by the modern-tech meets Battletech discussion, which inevitably happens whenever new people are introduced to the system and is no doubt very interesting to them. You can add me to the list. Even though I hate the numerous grognards who consider everything before they joined up the one true Battletech, the rare opposite that demands change is somehow even more annoying. Silly me, thinking that seeing over a hundred new posts meant that some interesting turn had taken place in the game~
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Apr 2, 2011 23:00
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DeepThrobble posted:Silly me, thinking that seeing over a hundred new posts meant that some interesting turn had taken place in the game~ Well, an update happened... You could always comment on that...
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Apr 2, 2011 23:20
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Next turn is going to be really exciting. This is where poo poo starts to get real. Too bad MechWarrior Knox isn't around to see the glory....
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Apr 2, 2011 23:39
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Wow, I honestly didn't expect half the new posts to be ShadowDragon bitching at people about how much BattleTech cockpits suck. Kind of amazed only one guy told you to shut up when it was down to you arguing with nobody disputing that the layout was a pain in the rear end for like two pages.
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Apr 2, 2011 23:41
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Zaodai posted:Wow, I honestly didn't expect half the new posts to be ShadowDragon bitching at people about how much BattleTech cockpits suck. Zaodai NO! A great spergening is upon us.
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Apr 2, 2011 23:48
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ShadowDragon8685 posted:Hints about previous spoilers. Don't be that guy. 
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Apr 2, 2011 23:59
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Hmmm... all this 'spergin (myself included) has made me wonder whether there has ever been a giant robot fightin' franchise that wasn't completely retarded in some way. BattleTech: retarded Gundam: pretty goddamn stupid Front Mission: ... wanzers Armored Core: like gundam ODing on speed Metal Gear: METAL GEAR...???!!! Tekwars: Shatner'd Robot Jox: would actually be better if it was robot gay porn as the name implies Evangelion: actually not a mech franchise, just one man's extended mental breakdown that somehow was animated and distributed I'm sure there are more that I'm missing but I think you get the picture. Arglebargle III fucked around with this message at 02:06 on Apr 3, 2011 |
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Apr 3, 2011 02:02
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All we need now is a discussion on why Battletech and other western mecha is stupid for having open cockpits and GLORIOUS NIPPON is superior for their animes having the cockpits in the torso even though there's a good amount of shows you could point at that have open cockpits (including most obviously the ones that Battletech cribbed from like Dougram), and suddenly this thread will be a microcosm of 4chan's /m/ board. Arglebargle is right, there's something about every futuristic mecha property that we can look at and say is dumb, and really, that's ok. It's not supposed to be 100% wholly realistic, that's why it's science fiction after all.
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Apr 3, 2011 02:08
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Angry_Ed posted:All we need now is a discussion on why Battletech and other western mecha is stupid for having open cockpits and GLORIOUS NIPPON is superior for their animes having the cockpits in the torso even though there's a good amount of shows you could point at that have open cockpits (including most obviously the ones that Battletech cribbed from like Dougram), and suddenly this thread will be a microcosm of 4chan's /m/ board. I think the main thing about giant mecha is that they are always a stupid concept that are utterly rediculous in practice. They have never, ever made sense as a military product. But how about that Wolfhound? Is it hosed, or what?
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Apr 3, 2011 02:33
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elitebuster posted:I think the main thing about giant mecha is that they are always a stupid concept that are utterly rediculous in practice. They have never, ever made sense as a military product. Unless the Wolfhound's pilot abuses/manipulates Zellbrigen, yes. Even then, probably yes. Barring outside influences or insanely good luck, a level 1 35-ton IS mech against a level 2 65-ton Clan mech has a rather predictable result.
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Apr 3, 2011 02:41
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I think that when the basic premise of a work of fiction is that there are humanoid machines more than twice the size of a human you've entered the territory of, "Can't complain about any of the technology in this story. Ever". And even if the machines are less than twice the height of a human it's still fairly stupid to do so.
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Apr 3, 2011 02:42
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Arglebargle III posted:Hmmm... all this 'spergin (myself included) has made me wonder whether there has ever been a giant robot fightin' franchise that wasn't completely retarded in some way. Does Iron Kingdoms count? Or are those robots just plain not giant enough? Not to say that it doesn't probably have some retarded elements somewhere, itself...
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Apr 3, 2011 02:42
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landcollector posted:Unless the Wolfhound's pilot abuses/manipulates Zellbrigen, yes. Even then, probably yes. Barring outside influences or insanely good luck, a level 1 35-ton IS mech against a level 2 65-ton Clan mech has a rather predictable result. If the Wolfie wants to pull back, I wouldn't mind in the least contributing a few AC-20s to that clanner's back.
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Apr 3, 2011 02:43
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