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A large part of me has always wondered why it's so bad to use the Imperius Curse on someone, controlling their actions temporarily, but modifying someone's memory permanently, which can entirely change a person, isn't just okay, but encouraged at many levels. There's a whole department at the Ministry dedicated to modifying memories, after all!
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Mar 10, 2011 13:21
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ConfusedUs posted:A large part of me has always wondered why it's so bad to use the Imperius Curse on someone, controlling their actions temporarily, but modifying someone's memory permanently, which can entirely change a person, isn't just okay, but encouraged at many levels. There's a whole department at the Ministry dedicated to modifying memories, after all! It's the hypocrisy of the magic world. gently caress Elves, Hermione should have been campaigning for Muggle rights.
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Mar 10, 2011 14:12
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ConfusedUs posted:A large part of me has always wondered why it's so bad to use the Imperius Curse on someone, controlling their actions temporarily, but modifying someone's memory permanently, which can entirely change a person, isn't just okay, but encouraged at many levels. There's a whole department at the Ministry dedicated to modifying memories, after all! Because Rowling isn't actually a good writer who can make a world that's consistent in its rules and every attempt to reconcile the inconsistencies in the books without just stating this fact is pretty funny. She is a good story teller though and the books are entertaining
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Mar 10, 2011 16:32
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Levitate posted:Because Rowling isn't actually a good writer who can make a world that's consistent in its rules and every attempt to reconcile the inconsistencies in the books without just stating this fact is pretty funny. Real life is full of inconsistencies like this. We, as a society, dislike murder; yet we glorify war which is just murder on a larger scale. Laws in society are not always consistent with what is right or what you decide is morally correct. It is far more likely that the Imperius curse and the other unforgivables are not regulated the same way that the memory charm is because of the crimes against wizards committed during the last 2 dark wizard uprisings. Furthermore, she always gives the impression that wizarding society as a whole is not a just society. It is in serious need of social and political reforms and this is both explicitly and implicitly stated throughout the novels.
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Mar 10, 2011 20:09
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The imperius curse falls under the 'unforgivable' descriptor because it's wizard rape. That's all there is to it. Cruciatus curse = wizard torture Imperius curse = wizard rape Avada kedavra = wizard murder
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Mar 10, 2011 21:05
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I always took it to be more along the lines of enslavement than rape, which is pretty unforgivable too. I'm glad I'm not the only one who cringed at the 'avaaadaahhh' poo poo in movie 2. But I always just tried write it off as maybe there being another curse or something that starts with avada.
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Mar 10, 2011 23:23
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MrFlibble posted:I see your point, but I disagree. I remember reading that the matron or carers at the orphanage always regarded Tom coldly, they said he was different. When dumbledore met him the first time, that kid was not an eleven year old who had a choice in anything, not a single path that led anywhere but prickhole captiol. From what I remember and can't be assed enough to head over to the bookshelves to double check, Tom had tortured/killed some of the small animals the other kids in the orphanage had as pets and left some children to die in caves, and never emotionally connected with anyone so on the serial killer in development checklist, I think he's only missing the chronic bedwetting. I pretty much chalked up Dumbledore's comment of Tom having choices as part of the Wizarding World having no grasp on basic Psychology.
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Mar 11, 2011 08:48
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I thought that he said that Harry had the choice. That he had a horrible childhood like Voldermort and he could have chosen to become evil, but instead he refused to have anything to do with it.
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Mar 11, 2011 08:51
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bobkatt013 posted:I thought that he said that Harry had the choice. That he had a horrible childhood like Voldermort and he could have chosen to become evil, but instead he refused to have anything to do with it. As much as Harry did have the lovely childhood, he still didn't have the deck stacked the way Tom had. Whether or not Tom had something genetic going on from his mother's inbreeding, it'd still be a pretty hosed up thing to learn when one goes looking in the family tree. Hell, I was unnerved when my now ex's family was casual about all the cousin marrying that happened on their side once we'd been married. Despite the treatment from the Dursleys, Harry was still taken along on family outings and given Dudley's cast off toys while just dealing with the Dursley dickishness wheras Tom was likely just given food and a bed with being left to fend for himself in the cliquish hive of the orphanage. From the angles I look at it, Tom was well set on the road to at least being bad regardless. And reading this over again...poo poo I sperged...
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Mar 11, 2011 15:40
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It is ok to sperg about Harry Potter, for I Am Here.
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Mar 11, 2011 17:00
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M_Sinistrari posted:As much as Harry did have the lovely childhood, he still didn't have the deck stacked the way Tom had. Whether or not Tom had something genetic going on from his mother's inbreeding, it'd still be a pretty hosed up thing to learn when one goes looking in the family tree. Hell, I was unnerved when my now ex's family was casual about all the cousin marrying that happened on their side once we'd been married. I seem to recall the author said something to the effect the fact Tom was conceived via a love-potion catalyzed relationship damaged his ability to love thanks to the fake nature of the love that conceived him. One would think "may result in psychotic offspring" would get the things made illegal instead of the "nudge nudge wink wink" attitude they seem to be received with, or maybe that was more because it was a love potion on a Muggle, and wizards either don't have that issue or (more likely) usually run into someone who can recognize and dispel the thing before lots of damage is done. I'd think any sort of wizard marriage probably would have a double-check on that sort of thing required anyway.
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Mar 13, 2011 05:48
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MadDogMike posted:I seem to recall the author said something to the effect the fact Tom was conceived via a love-potion catalyzed relationship damaged his ability to love thanks to the fake nature of the love that conceived him. One would think "may result in psychotic offspring" would get the things made illegal instead of the "nudge nudge wink wink" attitude they seem to be received with, or maybe that was more because it was a love potion on a Muggle, and wizards either don't have that issue or (more likely) usually run into someone who can recognize and dispel the thing before lots of damage is done. I'd think any sort of wizard marriage probably would have a double-check on that sort of thing required anyway. I don't think JK said this, it was just a theory going around. Anyway it goes against the theme of the series being "our choices define us" because it sort of makes it not Riddle's fault that he turned out so evil.
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Mar 13, 2011 06:21
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Hedrigall posted:I don't think JK said this, it was just a theory going around. Anyway it goes against the theme of the series being "our choices define us" because it sort of makes it not Riddle's fault that he turned out so evil. But it WASN't his fault he was evil. He was a loving psychopath, he didn't have any loving say in the matter. Show one choice he had that JKR wrote, or even the suggestion of a choice - I will clarify. A realistic choice, not a choice between normal and evil murderbastard. Either he was an irrideemable oval office (Goes against the whole choice thing sure, but it is perfectly acceptable) or he made the wrong choices (Never shown but it is clearly what she was going for). You can't have both. Would have been simple to set up the choices thing. Show Tom as charming when he is a kid (consistent with what people in the book say) and show a gradual decay into evil bastard.
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Mar 13, 2011 12:09
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In fact, when they're looking at the memories, doesn't Dumbledore tell Harry off for feeling sorry for Tom when he sees his lovely childhood? That struck me as pretty loving weird, given the whole theme of the book.
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Mar 13, 2011 18:43
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Melche posted:In fact, when they're looking at the memories, doesn't Dumbledore tell Harry off for feeling sorry for Tom when he sees his lovely childhood? That struck me as pretty loving weird, given the whole theme of the book. If I remember right, he asks him if he feels sorry for him and Harry quickly denies it. I don't remember Dumbledore ever discouraging it.
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Mar 14, 2011 09:03
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The Tom/Choice thing bugs me because it first came up when Dumbledore was talking in context of the Sorting Hat (about Harry choosing not to be in Slytherin). But then... Dumbledore also says that Tom's sorting was like, the hat barely touched his head before he was sorted. Edit: Also, about the love potion. quote:Ravleen: How much does the fact that voldemort was conceived under a love potion have to do with his nonability to understand love is it more symbolic miasmacloud fucked around with this message at 21:37 on Mar 16, 2011 |
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Mar 16, 2011 20:52
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miasmacloud posted:The Tom/Choice thing bugs me because it first came up when Dumbledore was talking in context of the Sorting Hat (about Harry choosing not to be in Slytherin). But then... Dumbledore also says that Tom's sorting was like, the hat barely touched his head before he was sorted. JK Rowling: Babies born of rape turn out evil.
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Mar 16, 2011 23:12
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There is one thing that annoy me. When Harry tries to find out who the half blood prince is, he asks Lupin if he has any idea. Lupin tell Harry to check the date, and Harry finds out that it couldn't been his fathers book. Later we learn that it's Snapes. But didn't Snape go to school with James, Sirius and Lupin? Do I remember it wrong?
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Mar 17, 2011 12:45
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It was a red herring. The book was a hand-me-down from Snape's mother (Eileen Prince) when she was at Hogwarts.
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Mar 17, 2011 12:53
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Ah, of course
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Mar 17, 2011 12:55
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I actually like the idea that while most people are born with free will and choice, some people are just born evil. Look at sociopaths and serial killers. The question is how do they choose to act on that evil? Do they follow the rules of society and use their sociopathy only for self-empowerment that doesn't directly hurt others? Or do they torture and murder people for fun? I don't have a problem with Tom Riddle being born evil. It's realistic, and a nice distraction from the "deep down everyone is good" tone of the book.
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Mar 17, 2011 16:35
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You know how people read "A Wizard of Oz" a hundred years later as a metaphor for the gold standard debate and turn-of-the-century politics? Well, it just occured to me that Harry Potter is an extended metaphor/prediction for the rise of the British National Party. I know my mind is blown.
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Mar 19, 2011 04:10
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Vengarr posted:You know how people read "A Wizard of Oz" a hundred years later as a metaphor for the gold standard debate and turn-of-the-century politics? What rise? As far as I know they lost absolutely all their council seats in the last election.
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Mar 19, 2011 11:48
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Plucky Brit posted:What rise? As far as I know they lost absolutely all their council seats in the last election. And wasn't Voldemort initially foiled by Harry Potter (who incidentally represents British pluck and stiff upper lip-ness)? I was going to type out a long comparison but now I think I'd be better off not jeopardizing my book deal
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Mar 21, 2011 03:18
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Harry Potter and the Oldham East By-Election, by J. K. Rowling. With the Coalition Ministry making savage cuts to St Mungos, privatising the Hogwarts express and tripling wizard tuition fees, there are fears that working class pureblood wizards could flock to Lord Griffin's banner. As the Dark Lord's minions seek to capitalise on the slump in Libdem popularity and take third place for the first time in this constituency, Ron tries to convince Hermione that UKIP are nothing like the BNP. Meanwhile, Harry's friendship with Hermione is sorely tested when he claims there is no point voting in a first past the post system.
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Mar 21, 2011 09:34
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bitterandtwisted posted:Harry Potter and the Oldham East By-Election, by J. K. Rowling. Amazing. I wish JK Rowling would actually do something like this as a political pamphlet.
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Mar 21, 2011 10:35
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I hope it isn't out of line to rec fan works here, because The Death of Narcissa Black slayed me. Not slayed as in laughed to death, but slayed as in ripped my heart out. I haven't read through this whole thread yet, so I don't know if it has popped up yet but it is definatly worth reading, though somewhat NWS. Not directly related to Harry Potter, but I saw it mentioned in the first couple of pages of this thread. Is there a thread for The Magicians? Because holy poo poo, this fukkin book.
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Mar 23, 2011 06:14
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Philo posted:Not directly related to Harry Potter, but I saw it mentioned in the first couple of pages of this thread. Is there a thread for The Magicians? Because holy poo poo, this fukkin book. Yeah, there was a thread about that a few months ago. I think it's been archived. Very controversial amongst goons. (I liked it, fwiw) e: wait no CaptainJuan fucked around with this message at 06:39 on Mar 23, 2011 |
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Mar 23, 2011 06:28
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CaptainJuan posted:Yeah, there was a thread about that a few months ago. I think it's been archived. Very controversial amongst goons. (I liked it, fwiw) I looked for one as well because I just finished the book. My GoodReads review is here http://www.goodreads.com/review/show/150948693, but it contains spoilers. I thought about starting a thread, but I'm still pretty new and I'm not quite ambitious enough to start my own thread yet...
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Mar 23, 2011 13:25
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CaptainJuan posted:Yeah, there was a thread about that a few months ago. I think it's been archived. Very controversial amongst goons. (I liked it, fwiw) Yeah, it ended up having a really lively debate. For the most part it was a pretty good discussion.
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Mar 23, 2011 13:32
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Philo posted:I hope it isn't out of line to rec fan works here, because The Death of Narcissa Black slayed me. Not slayed as in laughed to death, but slayed as in ripped my heart out. I haven't read through this whole thread yet, so I don't know if it has popped up yet but it is definatly worth reading, though somewhat NWS. Oh my god, thank you for posting that. That was absolutely heart-wrenching, and it gives a real human twist to the Black family. I loved the art for it as well.
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Mar 24, 2011 08:58
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Are there supposed to be random blank parts in it or are some of the pictures just not showing up for me?
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Mar 24, 2011 14:04
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thebardyspoon posted:Are there supposed to be random blank parts in it or are some of the pictures just not showing up for me? I think that they are like chapter endings, a bit of white space to give you time to ponder before the next part. I thought it was wonderful!
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Mar 24, 2011 16:00
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bobkatt013 posted:"Snape never moves past being the sniveling, petty tyrant." The whole point of Snape is that he never moves "past being the snivelling, petty tyrant." Check out this fanfic: Written before book 7 came out. The Seventh Horcrux Art for the sake of making art.
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Apr 2, 2011 04:19
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Long story short: I bought the first Harry Potter book today and started reading it for the first time. I've seen the first 4+ movies when they came out, but obviously only casually.I also know pretty much all the spoilers, but this is the very first time I've ever read anything Rowling has written. I read the first 70 pages today in the bath. If you wonder what it's like to read chapter one without knowing where the story is actually going, directly, but with knowing Snape kills Dumbldore because he wanted to nail Harrys mom and it was all a secret conspiracy to pretend it was a conspiracy for some reason also Dumbeldore was gay alll along but never actually gay! feel free to ask. So far I'm surprised how much it reminds me of Roald Dahl. I was actually expecting it to remind me more of Pratchet, which it doesn't at all so far. e: the tag is "spoiler," not "spoilers" apparently.
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Apr 5, 2011 02:57
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Dahl is obviously a huge influence on Rowling and the first book at least has that very British "hello there children, why don't you gather around while I tell a wonderfully silly tale! There once was a boy..." story-teller tone. But later on (and especially from book 3 onwards) Rowlings develops her own style, which is crowned by her perfect knack for characters.
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Apr 5, 2011 04:03
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Also you will very soon come to realise that the movies are a festering pile of poo poo compared to the books (with the exception of movies 3 and 7.1 so far)
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Apr 5, 2011 04:04
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7.1 was gar- ... Now please put on extremely dark tinted sunglasses and stare at this sentence for 20 minutes. ... -bage. This post is intended to simulate the experience of watching Deathly Hallows part 1. 3 is indeed the best though.
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Apr 5, 2011 04:37
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IRQ posted:7.1 was gar- But Deathly Hallows part 1 wasn't in 3D 
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Apr 5, 2011 05:17
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IRQ posted:7.1 was gar- PoA might have been - but it completely butchered the them of the book (Harry discovering his father and friends after two book being mainly focused on his mother's eyes). The end was a complete clusterfuck and themeless in that it squandered potentially great performances by Spall and Oldman and Thewlis (sp). Seriously, what was the point about Lily's mention by Lupin? Other than idiocy? It doesn't fit. PoA was Harry's journey of finding his father in a way that is then screwed up in OotP and Snaps memories.
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Apr 5, 2011 05:22
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