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PoptartsNinja posted:Every Clan has a gimick: v v v Just look at the events of MW2: GBL. They tore a path through both Clan and DC Space hunting down the thieves who stole the Genetic samples of their founders. landcollector fucked around with this message at 06:30 on Apr 11, 2011 |
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Apr 11, 2011 06:26
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Artificer posted:Judging from that, it looks like Ghost Bear is the one with the least stupid gimmick. Is that why there seems to be so many fans of them? Their gimmick, if I recall, also includes overwhelming collateral damage. Edit: Its because while Widowmaker killed said leader of the clans, Wolverine pissed him off while he was still alive.
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Apr 11, 2011 06:26
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Der Waffle Mous posted:Their gimmick, if I recall, also includes overwhelming collateral damage. Not so much that, as a complete unwillingness to change at anything other than a glacial pace. They've got a lot of fans because while they started out as being the downs-sufferers of the original invasion, they didn't get enough face-time to show that they were total assholes; so people started assuming that they were actually pretty OK.
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Apr 11, 2011 06:33
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Pimpmust posted:Now I want a match to be goons in a company of tanks vs a lance of clanners I could get behind this. Show the Clanners what some armor can do! Not to get hung up on this honor stuff, but I would think that any right thinking Inner Sphere military dude would call out Knox on his bullshit. Whether Knox or his superiors would actually do anything about it is another question. Really, he was to withdraw, not advance in another direction and pick off targets of opportunity... Good fight, raverrn. Your tank crew is still out there in the woods, so maybe you can hide out there and try and affect the battle in some way. Or you could make it back to the dropships or something. Tell the rest of the Commonwealth what went down with the 2nd and how these clanners can be exploited honor wise.
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Apr 11, 2011 06:34
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Angry_Ed posted:Long as we get to field Demolishers and Alacorns. AC/20s and Gauss Rifles for all Pffft, you can keep your ammo-dependent battle tanks. I prefer the Shreck.
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Apr 11, 2011 06:36
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Also, on the note of the Naga and how it is totally terrible, it's mainly because 5/8 is entirely pointless for an artillery 'mech. If I was rebuilding the Naga into something reasonably capable of self-defense, here's what it'd end up looking like.code:
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Apr 11, 2011 06:36
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MJ12 posted:I guess it's not sufficiently Steel Viper though. Being only 4/6 instead of 5/8 and all. It's a Star Adder design.  But no, I wasn't going out of my way to make the Naga more effective. It pretty much exists to explode hilariously.
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Apr 11, 2011 06:40
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PoptartsNinja posted:It's a Star Adder design. So you'd say it's the Clan equivalent of the -1A1 Charger? Or the Jagermech but not as useful? There's not too much you can do to make the Naga more effective, even the drop to 4/6 only let me max the armor and give it the defensive armament of a light mech. Of course, that's the defensive armament of a light Clan mech.
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Apr 11, 2011 06:46
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PoptartsNinja posted:Not so much that, as a complete unwillingness to change at anything other than a glacial pace. They've got a lot of fans because while they started out as being the downs-sufferers of the original invasion, they didn't get enough face-time to show that they were total assholes; so people started assuming that they were actually pretty OK. Also they haven't lost a major battle since Tukayyid and get through the Jihad as the only people to not lose some major holding.
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Apr 11, 2011 06:50
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The Ghost Bears also pretty much trolled the rest of the Clans during the Great Refusal by saying "this is stupid, we quit" and moving all of their holdings to the Inner Sphere and allying with the Free Rasalhague Republic not soon after.
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Apr 11, 2011 06:54
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MJ12 posted:There's not too much you can do to make the Naga more effective. Well, there is but you have to completely redesign it and get rid of the Arrow IV system:  Hey, look, it's like a Naga but with double the BV(1)!
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Apr 11, 2011 06:55
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PoptartsNinja posted:Well, there is but you have to completely redesign it and get rid of the Arrow IV system: Well, at that point it isn't really a Naga, but some sort of Gargoyle variant with Endosteel, isn't it? Which is the real thing with the Naga, because of its trademark being "two Arrow IV launchers" there is literally nothing you can do to make it a good mech in Clan combat, although if you dropped the engine size down to 4/6 and maxed its armor you would have an excellent artillery mech with decent self-defense ability, if only the Clans used artillery significantly. Defiance Industries posted:Also they haven't lost a major battle since Tukayyid and get through the Jihad as the only people to not lose some major holding. And don't forget that they have some really cool things, like the Kodiak, or the Leviathan II, or the Bruin, although that's recent. Generally they have a prevalence of pretty awesome mech designs and the largest warship in space (despite not being Clan Snow Raven), which doesn't hurt their popularity.  MJ12 fucked around with this message at 07:04 on Apr 11, 2011 |
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Apr 11, 2011 07:00
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MJ12 posted:Which is the real thing with the Naga, because of its trademark being "two Arrow IV launchers" there is literally nothing you can do to make it a good mech in Clan combat [...] if only the Clans used artillery significantly. The Huey is a much better artillary-delivery system anyway, so losing the Naga's signature (being totally useless) is hardly a bad thing. Honestly, if any of the Naga variants had Tag, it would be less useless since it could fire a homing missile at the mapsheet it's in once it tags a target. It'd be one of those skill things that Clan 'Mechwarriors love! But no, they get to direct fire and miss because Arrow IVs suck when they're not actively homing in on a target.
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Apr 11, 2011 07:05
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I dunno about the rest of you, but Clan Ghost Bear is my favorite for the even less rational reason that I like the animal they are fashioned after and their quasi-Totem Mech, the Kodiak. Oh, and I like their color schemes. Plus, they're pretty chill dudes that wreck poo poo when they have to. So yeah, all my reasons for liking the Ghost Bears have almost nothing to do with their actual battles and such.  [EDIT] Also, I think one of their Galaxies is called "Bear Essentials", so yeah, they've got high ranks in Punnery. Zaodai fucked around with this message at 07:11 on Apr 11, 2011 |
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Apr 11, 2011 07:08
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PoptartsNinja posted:en you'll only do 300/150 damage to yourself/everything around you. Hey, what's that program you're using there? I'm trying to run a Battletech RPG game and could use something to help track this stuff.
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Apr 11, 2011 07:10
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PoptartsNinja posted:The Huey is a much better artillary-delivery system anyway, so losing the Naga's signature (being totally useless) is hardly a bad thing. The Huey is a slow tank (2/3) with very poor armor protection, while if built right (again, the 5/8 move is the killer here, but 4/6 is still very fast) the Naga becomes a well-armored artillery platform with equivalent firepower and superior armor. My Naga II manages roughly the same defensive throw-weight and is a lot harder to kill. The Huey is far cheaper, and more effective on that metric, but since when did the Clans care about cost-effectiveness? quote:Honestly, if any of the Naga variants had Tag, it would be less useless since it could fire a homing missile at the mapsheet it's in once it tags a target. It'd be one of those skill things that Clan 'Mechwarriors love! Not being able to TAG for yourself is generally inexcusable on an artillery mech unless it's something like the Patriot where you only have 1 Arrow IV, isn't it? Although you mentioned the Naga had too much ammunition, which is where I disagree. I think the Naga has just enough ammunition, since an artillery mech should be sustaining constant fire unless it needs to defend itself, and there are a lot of artillery ammo flavors. Six tons lets you carry 10 shots of Arrow IV Homing per launcher, and have a last ton for Cluster or Inferno ammunition, the first for killing infantry of any sort and murdering tight-packed vehicle formations and other softer targets, the second for being a gigantic dick. I'd have said FASCAM as well, but the Clans don't use minefields, do they? Gothsheep posted:Hey, what's that program you're using there? I'm trying to run a Battletech RPG game and could use something to help track this stuff. He's using Heavy Metal Pro which is a for-pay program, I recognize the interface. I linked Solaris Skunk Werks a while back, which is free and similarly-featured for battlemechs (although it doesn't let you design REDACTED or vehicles yet. You can get it here MJ12 fucked around with this message at 07:14 on Apr 11, 2011 |
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Apr 11, 2011 07:11
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Yeah, I'm perfectly fine with Artillary going right over the Clan's heads (no pun intended). They've got enough
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Apr 11, 2011 07:27
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You can also (and should!) get MegaMekLab. The interface isn't very shiny, it's not slick like Heavy Metal, but it uses BV2.0, validates, and can build 'mechs, tanks, and redacted. Oh, and it exports natively in MegaMek's format, which is a plus to my way of mind since I imagine most of us would be wanting to use the designs we output for MegaMek. If you actually want to design for tabletop, you can always use MML to build and validate, then copy the info to paper by hand.
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Apr 11, 2011 07:28
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MJ12 posted:Six tons lets you carry 10 shots of Arrow IV Homing per launcher, and have a last ton for Cluster or Inferno ammunition, the first for killing infantry of any sort and murdering tight-packed vehicle formations and other softer targets, the second for being a gigantic dick. I'd have said FASCAM as well, but the Clans don't use minefields, do they? Just as an aside, Clanners don't actually have Arrow-IV Inferno ammo. That's Cappie hardware invented in the 3060s and so it doesn't quite exist yet. They DO actually have FASCAM ammo, though.
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Apr 11, 2011 08:01
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*derp* nothing to see here folks. That nice looking mech above is a bruin. Artificer fucked around with this message at 08:18 on Apr 11, 2011 |
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Apr 11, 2011 08:12
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Angry_Ed posted:Long as we get to field Demolishers and Alacorns. AC/20s and Gauss Rifles for all I'd settle for Hetzers. Then we get no turret, a dumb catch phrase, cheapness and an AC/20s everywhere! Edit: The best tank would be a 20 ton tracked tank destroyer with a fusion engine, 7 tons of armor and a PPC in terms of C-bill efficency. That's a real Hetzer to boot. Cthulhu Dreams fucked around with this message at 08:30 on Apr 11, 2011 |
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Apr 11, 2011 08:15
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Cthulhu Dreams posted:I'd settle for Hetzers. Then we get no turret, a dumb catch phrase, cheapness and an AC/20s everywhere! And half-speed on non-pavement and skidding tests at flanking! Skidding tests for everyone (wheeled tanks are awful)! VVVVV It was from a time before wheels were treated differently from treads. A time when tanks exploded on contact with things like 'fire', 'water', and 'trees'. Simpler times, before the Clans came. When the word 'Autocannon' meant 'Autocannon/5' and there weren't any other varieties. PoptartsNinja fucked around with this message at 08:40 on Apr 11, 2011 |
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Apr 11, 2011 08:26
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PoptartsNinja posted:And half-speed on non-pavement and skidding tests at flanking! Skidding tests for everyone (wheeled tanks are awful)! Yeah, it's very puzzling why it doesn't have tracks when it's named after a real tracked TD, especially considering you can seemingly remake it as a 3/5 30 Ton tracked tank for no penalty.
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Apr 11, 2011 08:33
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PM sent. Some things are designed to be worse than other things: If everything was flawless and optimised, there'd be no space for custom designs.
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Apr 11, 2011 08:37
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Zaodai posted:I dunno about the rest of you, but Clan Ghost Bear is my favorite for the even less rational reason that I like the animal they are fashioned after and their quasi-Totem Mech, the Kodiak. Oh, and I like their color schemes. Hey, it's no worse than my reasons for really liking the Free Worlds League - namely that of the 5 factions (Clans? What Clans? I'm old, yo), they had the logo I liked the best and besides, no one else at the gaming store seemed to really care about 'em so I figured I'd be the standout.
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Apr 11, 2011 08:39
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AJ_Impy posted:PM sent. Sure sure, I appreciate that. It's just a strange oversight. The only people who are going to get a kick out of it being called a 'Hetzer' are going to be people who know what a real hetzer is, and (like me) are likely to be somewhat puzzled by the fact that the Hetzer doesn't have tracks - plus the same source material has actual wheeled TDs with oversized guns you could have used instead.
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Apr 11, 2011 08:47
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So judging by all the talk of how the Naga's sole reason for being is to provide a lovely pillar of flame several miles high, I'm going to go out on a limb here and guess that it doesn't have CASE? Enjoy your new coffin, Knox! You've certainly earned it! 
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Apr 11, 2011 09:10
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W.T. Fits posted:So judging by all the talk of how the Naga's sole reason for being is to provide a lovely pillar of flame several miles high, I'm going to go out on a limb here and guess that it doesn't have CASE? As a result of this battle, in the year 2782, elderly Clan Warriors seeking an honorable death are assigned to a Cluster composed entirely of Nagas and sent forth to seek battle with the 2nd Donegal. To further increase their chances of a glorious death, each has had their Nagas emblazoned with the words 'Jennifer Steiner Blows Goats' in three-foot-high letters across their torsos.
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Apr 11, 2011 09:36
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W.T. Fits posted:So judging by all the talk of how the Naga's sole reason for being is to provide a lovely pillar of flame several miles high, I'm going to go out on a limb here and guess that it doesn't have CASE? No, like all Clan designs, it has weight-free slot-free CASE.
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Apr 11, 2011 11:13
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DivineCoffeeBinge posted:As a result of this battle, in the year 2782, elderly Clan Warriors seeking an honorable death are assigned to a Cluster composed entirely of Nagas and sent forth to seek battle with the 2nd Donegal. To further increase their chances of a glorious death, each has had their Nagas emblazoned with the words 'Jennifer Steiner Blows Goats' in three-foot-high letters across their torsos. Err, don't you mean 3082?
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Apr 11, 2011 11:44
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ShadowDragon8685 posted:Err, don't you mean 3082? Misjump accident. Clan Dropship winds up in the middle of the succession wars.
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Apr 11, 2011 13:43
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AJ_Impy posted:Misjump accident. Clan Dropship winds up in the middle of the succession wars. And that is why you don't jury-rig a KF-drive onto a dropship. 
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Apr 11, 2011 14:58
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Zaodai posted:I dunno about the rest of you, but Clan Ghost Bear is my favorite for the even less rational reason that I like the animal they are fashioned after and their quasi-Totem Mech, the Kodiak. Oh, and I like their color schemes. Personally, I like the Ghost Bears for their massive hard-on for Fire Moths and REDACTED. If I recall correctly, the Ghost Bear Touman included an entire Galaxy of REDACTED. Basically, they like to bring the pain in an incredibly annoying way. Also, their AeroSpace pilots are born from MechWarrior stock, so they can be better at hand-to-hand combat 
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Apr 11, 2011 16:16
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Diogenes Cynicus posted:Personally, I like the Ghost Bears for their massive hard-on for Fire Moths and REDACTED. If I recall correctly, the Ghost Bear Touman included an entire Galaxy of REDACTED. Basically, they like to bring the pain in an incredibly annoying way. Also, their AeroSpace pilots are born from MechWarrior stock, so they can be better at hand-to-hand combat Well, as mentioned earlier in the thread, Firemoths using alternate config. D can dish out a lot of pain (5 ER Medium Lasers) for their weight and are very speedy. Not to mention those lasers are tied to a Targeting Computer...
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Apr 11, 2011 16:32
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landcollector posted:Well, as mentioned earlier in the thread, Firemoths using alternate config. D can dish out a lot of pain (5 ER Medium Lasers) for their weight and are very speedy. Not to mention those lasers are tied to a Targeting Computer... Isn't the Firemoth D the only canon mech banned from tournament play? or did I misremember this?
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Apr 11, 2011 16:48
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Diogenes Cynicus posted:Personally, I like the Ghost Bears for their massive hard-on for Fire Moths But they loooooove Alternate Configuration A (which is pretty terrible since they don't use artillary except on extremely rare occasions). They also have a love for the Viper, whose sole characteristic is: "Like the Nova, but faster. And worse." The Ghost Bears, Smoke Jaguars, Goliath Scorpions, and Hell's Horses all love <Redacted>, each for different reasons. I love the Ghost Bears, they're probably my favorite Clan (which is why I play Jade Falcons; and decided not to include the Bears in the Invasion; I couldn't do them justice and I could have tried to make them look too awesome). This time around, the Clans I chose are (probably) far better suited to taking and holding the Inner Sphere; each for a different reason. The Steel Vipers bid a second-line Garrison Galaxy to the invasion. The Hell's Horses love for combined-arms, tanks, and standard infantry makes them excellent Garrison forces. The Goliath Scorpions field a lot of <Redacted> and are indirectly protected by the Hell's Horses. The Widowmakers are great at smashing defenders and leaving little organized resistance and are indirectly protected by the Steel Vipers.
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Apr 11, 2011 17:02
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So they -only- bid a second line galaxy to the invasion? That is not a lot of forces right?
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Apr 11, 2011 17:07
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Captain Foo posted:Isn't the Firemoth D the only canon mech banned from tournament play? or did I misremember this? I think the combo of Pulse Lasers (Large specifically) and Targeting Computer is also banned. Reason: Together they can provide a max of a -3 bonus on your to-hit rolls, making many shots very easy to hit their mark.
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Apr 11, 2011 17:19
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Affi posted:So they -only- bid a second line galaxy to the invasion? That is not a lot of forces right? In addition to their front-line forces, the Steel Vipers are the only Clan who brought a Garrison Galaxy. The Clans aren't exactly being limited to four Galaxies this time around. Clan Widowmaker isn't trying to handicap the invasion the way the Wolves were. ... Which also would've made the Ghost Bears waaaaaaaaay more powerful, since they've got 13 (6 front line) Galaxies. Most of the other Clans only have 5-8, and only 4 or so of those will be front-line troops; and quite a few have less (poor Cloud Cobras). The Smoke Jaguars only had, what... 3 front-line Galaxies and maaaaaybe 8 total galaxies (by 3060) if you count their 5 understrength Garrison galaxies and the front-line Galaxy they were trying to put together in secret that the Northwind Highlanders tricked the Nova Cats into killing because Loren Jaffray is a Mary Sue who Can't Lose? VVVV The second thing. It means they're not wasting Omnimechs holding worlds; they can field all of their front-line troops because they brought some second-line PoptartsNinja fucked around with this message at 17:22 on Apr 11, 2011 |
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Apr 11, 2011 17:19
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PoptartsNinja posted:... I understand the logic of all your descriptions except for this one. Is this ideal because the Vipers aren't burning their best troops on learning Steiner rules? Or is this more ideal because a Garrison Galaxy would be better suited to holding the territory it conquers? e. I see. They're really committed to this invasion, then...
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