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a life less posted:Incorporate the Look At That game into your walks when you notice him getting nervous. The beauty of the game is that it allows the dog to take a brief glimpse and what's freaking him out, and then back to you for a reward. It's a more operant way to deal with reactivity. Not the original asker, but I've been playing LAT with my JRT puppy (barky-reactive toward kids and some strangers) and she'll now offer strong glances between me and the trigger. We've been able to walk past kids about two feet away (with me between her and them) with only two or three treats given to her, and her holding pretty good eye contact. I've got a question though. Now we're at this point--her looking at the trigger, then straight back at me, often even when the trigger is closer than she generally likes--should I be clicking for her looking at the trigger still or for looking at me? I've been clicking her for eye contact with me, but I'm not sure if that's right and I don't wanna screw it up when we've got a good thing going 
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Apr 18, 2011 11:06
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Fraction posted:Not the original asker, but I've been playing LAT with my JRT puppy (barky-reactive toward kids and some strangers) and she'll now offer strong glances between me and the trigger. We've been able to walk past kids about two feet away (with me between her and them) with only two or three treats given to her, and her holding pretty good eye contact. I would be clicking when the dog looks at the distraction. Ideally you want it to be a brief look (a second or less) so I would maintain that as a criteria of the game. If the dog is staring at a distraction and it's several seconds before you can bring her focus back to you then, well, that's not exactly what the LAT game is all about. Luckily with a low enough intensity distraction and enough classical conditioning with a clicker or marker word it's pretty easy to keep these looks brief. Once your dog has figured out the game you can decide whether you want to put the behaviour on cue or not. Some people prefer not to and have dogs who will offer quick calm glances at distractions without prompting. I like having it on cue. I'll use "look" and that means my dog is to swivel her head around and look at a distraction and then back to me. I rarely use a clicker any more for this since she knows the game, but now that she's as proficient at it as she is I could probably either click the looking at the distraction, or the reorienting to me, depending on what I wanted to emphasize. So, I guess, the answer to your question is that you'll be clicking her for looking at a distraction, and the click should reorient her, assuming she's far enough away from it. If you're clicking for eye contact what you're asking for is focus. I love focus. Focus is good. But it's kind of separate from the LAT game.
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Apr 18, 2011 14:19
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a life less posted:So, I guess, the answer to your question is that you'll be clicking her for looking at a distraction, and the click should reorient her, assuming she's far enough away from it. Cool, thanks. I wasn't sure, so what I'd been doing previously was clicking 2-3 times for the first sighting of the trigger, and then moving to clicking each time she looked at the trigger and then back at me (clicking as she made eye contact). I'll go back to clicking for looking at the trigger. Is the aim of LAT to teach the dog to calmly look at something for longer and longer periods of time? (Like a swift glance, a full second, two seconds, etc.) I have found though that since I've been clicking for eye contact, she's started to offer it in unusual situations. She saw geese for the first time yesterday, for example, and stared at them for a few seconds before apparently having a lightbulb moment and flinging herself around so that she could meet my eyes. 
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Apr 18, 2011 15:45
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GLITTER AND GREASE posted:Biting problems with golden/poodle mix. This is very common in Golden Retrievers. Our puppy had this problem for a long time too, and while it is not wholly gone, it is mostly gone. Golden's are mouthy dogs, and they are excited about everything in the entire world, and they only have two ways to express that excitement: tail wagging and mouthing. Part of the problem is that you are probably too exciting, which is egging her on to the mouthing problem. If you have a household full of kids this is going to be very difficult to correct, and you are going to have to dedicate time and effort to working solely on this, probably for a period of several months. I'll go through what we have done to curb it in our puppy, and hopefully it will help you:
This topic has been covered in this thread and the puppy thread several times, if you can take the time to read through them.
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Apr 18, 2011 15:46
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Fraction posted:Cool, thanks. I wasn't sure, so what I'd been doing previously was clicking 2-3 times for the first sighting of the trigger, and then moving to clicking each time she looked at the trigger and then back at me (clicking as she made eye contact). I'll go back to clicking for looking at the trigger. Is the aim of LAT to teach the dog to calmly look at something for longer and longer periods of time? (Like a swift glance, a full second, two seconds, etc.) I think the original intention of Look At That is a way for the dog to quickly get her ya-yas out and then continue actively working with you. The book McDevitt wrote was designed to create better control of a dog. It was later adapted by trainers looking to address reactivity, as they noticed that not being able to look at the worrying trigger was adding to the stress level. So they allow a quick glance so the dog is still aware of its environment, but again is meant to facilitate working with you. So, I would say no, the aim is not to teach the dog to calmly look at something for longer periods of time. It's for brief moments when you otherwise want the dog focused on you. It's a very flexible game, and you can adapt it however you want. Obviously there are no rules, and I'm not going to tell you to change anything if you're happy with your progress. I hope that makes sense. I feel like I've not been able to explain myself very well this morning.
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Apr 18, 2011 16:30
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Speaking of mouthing, my 8 month pregnant friend and her husband just "rescued" a 6 week Australian Shepard/lab puppy that (here's a surprise) is very mouthy.  Right now they're leaving it in the garage with some pee pads. Since the damage has already been done, what should they do now? I'd like to recommend a book or video to them.
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Apr 18, 2011 18:14
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Emasculatrix posted:Speaking of mouthing, my 8 month pregnant friend and her husband just "rescued" a 6 week Australian Shepard/lab puppy that (here's a surprise) is very mouthy. Personal opinion, but I think the best introductory book is Pat Miller's The Power of Positive Training. If they argue and whine about how they don't buy into it, you can spend 30 minutes with some very basic clicker training and make a strong case for it.
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Apr 18, 2011 18:17
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Is food aggression something easily lived with, or a red flag that dog adopters who are new to training should steer away from? We are looking at a handful of dogs on PetFinder and one says she is food aggressive and can't go to a home with very young children. We don't have any kids but I wonder if it's a sign that there may be more issues. Either way I'm not sure she's the dog for us since it warns that she loves to chew wood things, and an apartment where we don't own the cabinets and doorframes probably isn't the ideal place to train her out of it.
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Apr 18, 2011 21:59
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drat Bananas posted:Is food aggression something easily lived with, or a red flag that dog adopters who are new to training should steer away from? We are looking at a handful of dogs on PetFinder and one says she is food aggressive and can't go to a home with very young children. We don't have any kids but I wonder if it's a sign that there may be more issues. Food aggression can be almost completely trained out, and with the occasional booster training session can remain at imperceptible levels for the rest of a dog's life. For a how-to, purchase the book Mine by Jean Donaldson, and refer to it often. It's not easily lived with, which is why you want to train it out. Training it out isn't particularly difficult, but it can be slow, frustrating, and there may be the occasional backslide. You have to be ultra consistent and vigilant when dealing with it. If I had no other dogs in the house I probably wouldn't have too much of a problem with adopting a resource guarder, but WITH other dogs it adds another level of difficulty that I personally don't feel equipped to deal with, and I would probably pass. If you plan to have kids at some point, again, it adds that level of unpredictability that can be difficult to anticipate and deal with -- you might end up not letting the child and dog interact for years. I wouldn't necessarily say it's a sign that there are other issues -- more I would think that it's a sign that you'd better get really adept at dog training and be ready to do some reading. Honestly as a first-time dog adopter I would probably direct you towards a dog with no known issues, but just about any dog you find will likely have its quirks -- many of which might not develop until you bring them home. Long story short, it's up to you.
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Apr 19, 2011 01:52
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I scanned the last few pages, and didn't see anybody with this issue, sorry if I missed it! I have a one year old rat terrier. We have started getting reports from the neighbors that he barks while we are not home. When we are home he does bark. His triggers (at least when we are home) include people and dogs walking by our apartment complex. Sometimes if it is just a person he will ignore it, but he ALWAYS barks if it is a person with another dog. We always hush him up right away though. I tell him "enough" and then he will resort to growling or whimpering. If it escalates then I remove him from the window area. However, if he is barking when not at home them I don't know what to do! I used to work at a pet store that focused on holistic and naturopath stuff and I remember we sold herbal things to calm down high-stress dogs like valerian root tablets made for dogs. I also remember we sold bark collars that released a citronella spray. Even though I used to sell these items I never had use for them myself. Some customers swore by them, but I want to get some professional (or non-professional  ) opinions before trying any of them out. I am also open to any new ideas!As far as I can tell his overall behavior is good while we are gone. It's just a barking issue.
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Apr 19, 2011 23:59
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Scenty posted:I scanned the last few pages, and didn't see anybody with this issue, sorry if I missed it! Before trying spray collars or weird remedies, have you tried playing music while you aren't at home? Is your dog crated? If not, I would considering crating or isolating in a smaller area of the house away from the worst windows and play music. The problem with barking is that it quickly moves from an anxious response to a habit. Training will help your dog overcome his anxiety at sounds outside while you are home, but you need to remove those triggers when you aren't around to actively train. I really doubt a calming remedy will help enough and I never did like the ideas of the sprays. I don't think they are effective at telling the dog what they are being punished for, nor do they tell the dog what they should be doing. When you are home, you can try replacing the barking behavior with another behavior, such as lying on a doggie bed. If you reinforce this behavior with treats, it can come to replace your dog's barking, depending on his anxiety level and how consistent you are with it.
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Apr 20, 2011 00:21
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Kiri koli posted:Before trying spray collars or weird remedies, have you tried playing music while you aren't at home? Is your dog crated? If not, I would considering crating or isolating in a smaller area of the house away from the worst windows and play music. Yeah, I don't really WANT to use a collar, it's just that I also don't want to cause problems with the neighbors. The music idea is a good one. I'll go tonight and get a radio. I assume something soothing like... I dunno, country? Or what? He is not crate trained. I know this is bad, but... when we tried to go through crate training before he would be okay with it if we were home, but when we started taking short ventures out we would get a TON of complaints that he was barking like a crazed maniac. The barking level currently when we are not home seems to be slightly excessive/annoying and not crazed maniac level. I think a big problem with the crate training (for him) was that we have a cat. He would see or hear the cat (if the crate was covered) and get... angry? jealous? upset that he was in the crate and the cat wasn't? I am not sure. If we were living in a house I would be more persistent with the crate training, but apartment complexes kinda suck because people don't want to hear "I'm sorry, it's been rough because we are crate training him could you work with us for a week or so?" They just want your dog to be quiet. So with the idea of training him to go to a doggy bed, when we are home do we pick him up and place him on it? Or do we try and get him to go to it himself?
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Apr 20, 2011 00:29
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Here's a post I wrote for the small dog thread. The basic idea is for you to actively work with your dog to reduce barking when you're home, and not allow any opportunities to practice the behaviour when you're not around. This is why crate training is so awesome -- I would recommend you consider starting up crate training from the ground up with really awesome positive associations. If you're locking your dog in there and he's barking then you're going too fast. You train the dog to be in their dog bed the same way you train them to enjoy their crate. You make treats rain from the sky when they're where you want them to be, and limit their access to the "wrong" places via a leash. The leash can be ~2 feet so the dog has the choice to stay on the bed or not, but it's limiting enough that the wrong choice isn't all that appealing to the dog. You just have to sink quite a bit of time into really hammering home "dog on bed = treat time, dog off bed = all reinforcement goes away". Bed training won't be as effective as crate training, but it might help. If you can't crate train, isolate him in a room without access to windows -- ideally somewhere nice and quiet. Drown out excess noise with some music as Kiri Koli said. Watch these three videos (first one here) and try to adapt it to your situation. You shape the behaviour, which means that going into the crate/bed is the dog's idea. Finally, exercise him more. If he's so tired he can't keep his eyes open he's much less likely to bark at the slightest provocation. Anyways, here's that post. Good luck. I hope this helps. a life less posted:here are multiple ways to approach dog barking. Some breeds are barkier than others, so while you can drastically reduce barking through consistent training, you cannot expect to completely extinguish the behaviour.
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Apr 20, 2011 01:45
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Scenty posted:Yeah, I don't really WANT to use a collar, it's just that I also don't want to cause problems with the neighbors. Any music is fine. My adviser makes his dogs listen to NPR all day. We usually use a white noise machine these days, but we used to just put it on whatever rock station. The music isn't meant to be calming, but to drown out noise and make it below your dog's threshold. I would try to start the crate training again. We live in a complex as well and got 4 complaints the first week we got our dog, but we kept at it and we haven't gotten a complaint since (not that my dog doesn't bark, but we got it down to a manageable level). It helped to talk to the landlord and make sure they understood that we were transitioning to a quieter dog. You could take the crate training really slow, do it only during the day when people don't mind as much and keep the sessions super short (don't even leave him in the crate for more than 30 seconds or leave the room for a week if that's what it takes). Feed your dog in his crate. Look around this thread for a link to crate games you can play to make your dog more comfortable. Even if you don't plan to crate during the day all the time, it's still really valuable to have a crate-trained dog. If the cat is bothering your dog in the crate, put the crate in a room and shut the door for now. It helps with the noise anyway. You definitely want to teach the dog to go to the bed himself. Start off like any other training, with no distractions. We did it by cuing Down on the bed, rewarding, and then transitioning to a Bed command. Once the dog understands the bed command, start commanding Bed whenever there is a sound outside that he might bark at or after he has already started. At first you'll probably need to lead him to the bed or cue Bed from right next to the bed, but you can continue working on distance until doggie will go to the bed from across the room. In time, a sound outside should automatically make doggie want to go to the bed because it has been reinforced so many times. If you are patient and consistent, it can replace the barking in theory. We haven't gotten to this point, but my dog is a special snowflake who has to be super alarmed at everything ever.
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Apr 20, 2011 01:55
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Okay, I have been convinced to again start with crate training from the ground up. What size crate do I need? I think the one I had before may have been too big as well. He is fully grown and weighs about 17lbs. He was squirming a lot when I tried to measure him but he is about 11-12 inches high at the shoulder and about 17 inches from the base of his neck to the base of his tail. edit - Luckily, I do have a pretty awesome landlord. She makes it sound like there is only one person who really complains, and she has said they are pretty much big complainers about everything in general and that she takes what they say with a grain of salt. The only time the landlord was kinda irked was because he was barking after 10pm once (the cutoff for "quiet" time) when we were at a party and my idiot boyfriend didn't call her back when she left him a voicemail about it. edit 2 - I hope this isn't a stupid question, but besides the shorter daily sessions with crate training, what do I do when I leave? Do I leave the crate where it is with the door open so he can explore it on his own time? Is there a good and reliable resource online for reading more detailed info about crate training or a book I could pick up? Thanks for the help! Scenty fucked around with this message at 04:54 on Apr 20, 2011 |
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Apr 20, 2011 02:19
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You might want to record on your computer what happens while you are away. Sometimes there are people who'll complain that a dog barks constantly, when the problem is a lot smaller. I've used Scanrec (Scanner Recorder) program for years and been very happy with it. Some friends have a program called Audacity for this. Radio and heavy curtains also help quite a few dogs. Can't hear too much and can't see too much for some means no need to bark too much. My dogs represent breeds that have been bred to herd reindeer and they need to bark while doing that. So they may be quite talkative, when compared to say retrievers. My own dogs are pretty good about barking now and won't for example bark when the doorbell rings. I'll always allow them to bark a couple of times, if they feel like they need to do that. And when my dogs are puppies I'll always thank them for barking, I figure they are just trying to let me know something is going on, so I will tell them I know and will take charge of the situation if need be. If I'd get even slightly mad at them at this point, I think they might intrepet that to mean I'm anxious and that maybe there really is something to be worried about when a sound is heard.
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Apr 20, 2011 06:10
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Scenty posted:Okay, I have been convinced to again start with crate training from the ground up. The sizing I can't really help you with. Regarding edit #2, you have two options. One, put the crate away and only have it out when you can do value-building exercises with it. Two, make the crate more attractive by dropping bits of food etc in there, putting a favourite bed in there, making it nice and cushy so it's more attractive than sleeping on the cold hard floor. It's up to you. I would close off the crate with my dog, but maybe more people would get a benefit out of leaving it available for exploration.
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Apr 20, 2011 13:38
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I am in the position of having to do a persuasive speech in my class. No "big topics" are allowed in the class (thank god), and I fear that "what makes a responsible breeder" is too close to "PUPPY MILLS ARE BAD ADOPT INSTEAD", and it might annoy my professor. I'm also afraid of going on a tangent. So I think a persuasive speech about positive dog training would be pretty good and something I am at least somewhat versed in enough to feel good giving a speech about. I need a minimum 3 print sources, and I know there are several books recommended in the OP, but for my particular purpose which books would you recommend I get? I do plan to keep them for my ~FUTURE DAWG~ anyway. Also lifeless since you are a fab totally official trainer* can I use you as a source? *you are close enough
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Apr 20, 2011 23:06
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Okay, just a few last questions. I'm sorry! I feel like I am flooding the thread with stupid questions. I went and got him a crate with the lushest most soft bed to go inside of it I could find. He was very curious about it after I set it up (which was last night). However, after some short sessions last night and today he won't put all four feet in it. According to the training guide I found they said to put treats in the back of the crate but when he gets them he puts everything in but his back feet and stretches to get the treats. Is this normal? Will he start going all the way in to get the treats? Or is there something else I should be doing? Also, I've decided I want to use clicker training. I have a clicker, and I am in the process of trying to charge it. How will I know when he "gets" it? We've only done three charging sessions so far, so I am not expecting too much yet, but he does usually learn fairly quickly, but I was just wondering how I would know. edit - right after I typed this he acted like he wanted me to follow him so I did and he kinda did a weird dance around the crate. I decided to fawn over the crate and act really interested myself and I put my head in it and laid it on the crate and when I backed up he went inside all the way by himself so yay! I guess that answers my question for that part of it. Scenty fucked around with this message at 02:05 on Apr 21, 2011 |
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Apr 21, 2011 02:00
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Scenty posted:Okay, just a few last questions. I'm sorry! I feel like I am flooding the thread with stupid questions. You can try doing something weird like attaching the treat in a way that will make him go all the way in, but I think I would just give it a little more time and see if it doesn't work itself out. Try putting a bowl with food in the back of the crate and see if your dog doesn't go in to eat it. Give him a little time to get used to it idea and associate the crate with good things. Charging the clicker is all about associated the click with treats and good things (i.e. toys, playtime, etc.). So the way you know your dog gets it is when you click and his eyes immediately go to you with a 'where's my treat!' expression. Edit: Saw your edit, that's great! Doggie just needs a little time to get used to things. Good job being excited, it can really help your dog if he can follow your mood. By the same token, when you finally do leave him crated alone, don't act all happy and excited when you get back. Leaving the crate should be a neutral experience. Kiri koli fucked around with this message at 02:18 on Apr 21, 2011 |
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Apr 21, 2011 02:11
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I finally got a clicker yesterday and its the best thing in the world. Unbelievable tool! He was already decent and sit and lay, and he's already getting roll over. A question though: I need to teach him to stand up (from sitting and lying, and also to go from lay to sit. Are there any tips/good methods for those? Sorry if its a repeat.
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Apr 21, 2011 03:28
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In the first page Suncut wanted to train their dog to fetch the bowl. It's a handy trick, which my Healy has abused by turning it into an occasional tug of war. Of course she can't really tug a metal bowl that hard, but she does try, also on youtube (and please excuse the slight mess). She'll also carry the bowls around like toys, when I come home. There has been some talk of muzzles as well. This is my Naru with hers:  It's a plastic box muzzle in whippet size. It stays in place with it's own straps and it allows the dog to really pant (notice the depth) and to drink as well. A very good and affordable muzzle.
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Apr 21, 2011 06:14
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Kerfuffle posted:I am in the position of having to do a persuasive speech in my class. No "big topics" are allowed in the class (thank god), and I fear that "what makes a responsible breeder" is too close to "PUPPY MILLS ARE BAD ADOPT INSTEAD", and it might annoy my professor. I'm also afraid of going on a tangent. Hah. That's cool (and sweet of you). I would definitely recommend The Power Of Positive Dog Training and Don't Shoot The Dog. The third source is a bit of a toss up -- maybe try something either by Jean Donaldson or Patricia McConnell. And feel free to use me as a source. If you actually need to converse, you can find me from time to time on IRC, or you can email me. Let me know. Scenty posted:Okay, just a few last questions. I'm sorry! I feel like I am flooding the thread with stupid questions. Congrats on getting him into the crate. One thing though -- it sounds like you're trying to lure him in. That could work, or it could... not. For all he knows the crate is a doggie death trap and you're trying to coerce him in. A better idea is to shape it. Shaping, you'll remember, is the process of rewarding successive approximations of a goal behaviour -- in this case, to go into the crate. So if you're still having trouble getting him to go in give it a try. You want to break down your goal into tiny sections and reward each one. Look in general direction of crate, click and treat (C/T). Look at crate, C/T. Take one step towards crate, C/T. Put foot close to entrance, C/T. Put one foot inside, C/T... etc etc. See how I break it down into tiny bits? Regarding the clicker, you kind of want to look for a "where's my treat?" look after you click. Some dogs pick it up faster than others, so there's really no set time. I would recommend moving from charging the clicker to working on obedience that he already knows so he starts to figure out how the clicker fits into his behaviour. Some people just jump right into whatever they feel like, but I always start off with something familiar. tuckfard posted:I finally got a clicker yesterday and its the best thing in the world. Unbelievable tool! I taught both of these through luring. Here's a video that covers the basics. Basically to get a sit from a down you put a lure over the dog's head and move it up slowly -- the dog should decide that the easiest way to get the treat is just to sit up. With a stand, it's a bit trickier. I had trouble teaching Cohen this when she was a pup. You're supposed to pull a lure forwards to encourage the dog to simply stand up to follow it. You might want to do this next to a wall so the dog doesn't start standing crooked. I had to prompt my dog a bit with a finger under her belly to get the stand with any sort of reliability, but I wouldn't recommend that as a matter of course. Ideally you want to do everything with your hands off the dog. To tidy up my dog's stand I've been using the tactic you see in this video. Previously Cohen would shuffle her feet a bit when she changed positions, but I wanted her to keep all her feet firmly planted on the ground. That's a much more advanced tactic, but if you watch it it should give you some ideas. Edit: Remember, you only say the cue once you're getting the behaviour you want consistently with your lure and/or hand signal. Don't say "stand" when the dog is laying down because you're essentially saying that stand means lay down. A lot of people screw up and add the cue waaaay too early. So again, only start saying anything when you've got the behaviour you want. Once that happens you can say the cue while the dog is doing the behaviour to show the dog the behaviour/cue relationship. And for my own training, Cohen seemed hurt a few days ago, so I taught her how to carry a hot dog instead of taking her out for a walk. She seems pleased.  I got that in about 5 minutes with a clicker and a smaller pile of hot dog pieces. Clickers are great. a life less fucked around with this message at 13:05 on Apr 21, 2011 |
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Apr 21, 2011 12:42
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a life less posted:Edit: Remember, you only say the cue once you're getting the behaviour you want consistently with your lure and/or hand signal. Don't say "stand" when the dog is laying down because you're essentially saying that stand means lay down. A lot of people screw up and add the cue waaaay too early. So again, only start saying anything when you've got the behaviour you want. Once that happens you can say the cue while the dog is doing the behaviour to show the dog the behaviour/cue relationship. This is the most obvious but insanely valuable advice that I wish I had like ten years ago. "Sit. siiiiiiiiiiiit. SIIIIIIT! SIT!  "
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Apr 22, 2011 06:23
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Riiseli gave me a revelation about Rho yesterday. I went to her place to check out the puppies and to maybe do some obed in the hopes of getting some of her (excellent) advice. Additionally it's usually really useful to get someone else to observe your mechanics when training. It's a lot better than video even, since you get real-time feedback. Well, we started out with Rho's motivation issues. Rho has an excellent tug - when he feels like it. He likes tennis balls - when he feels like it. He's a picky eater and nothing I've yet tried is super duper excellent A++ in his opinion. This includes a lot of unhealthy people food, so it's not like I haven't tried. We tried a bunch of different toys (real fur, squeaks, the works) and the usual motivational tricks to get Rho to play, including playing with the toy amongst ourselves and making a big deal about it, running away etc. Rho didn't give a poo poo and kept wandering off. Then Riiseli tried the thing that's worked for well for her Healy: disapproval as +P and social acceptance and praise as +R. And what do you know, it worked! As much as I'd like to train using as little +P as possible, I think I'm going to go for it in this regard. Rho responded really nicely i.e. focused on me in response to +P (clearing my throat in a disapproving manner). His best reward all evening was me being happy and praising him and playing with him without any toys. No food was involved! I've long known Rho to be really sensitive to feedback coming from me or even people in general. He loves being near me and I do play with him without any toys (chase is one of his faves). However up until now I've always seen this sensitivity as a weakness, since Rho sometimes responds to my intensity with fear, even when I'm super happy and pleased. I messed up his Crate Games a while ago with being too enthusiastic about his performance. Now I see I can use his sensitivity to my advantage. Yay! Apologies for the wall of text, this was just a huge thing to me. Pi is greedy and will tug with anything, anywhere, so I've been confused about Rho for the longest time.
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Apr 22, 2011 07:32
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Rixatrix posted:I've long known Rho to be really sensitive to feedback coming from me or even people in general. He loves being near me and I do play with him without any toys (chase is one of his faves). However up until now I've always seen this sensitivity as a weakness, since Rho sometimes responds to my intensity with fear, even when I'm super happy and pleased. I messed up his Crate Games a while ago with being too enthusiastic about his performance. Now I see I can use his sensitivity to my advantage. Yay! This is really cool. I've kind of been doing a similar thing with Psyche. She doesn't get toys as a reward (when she even feels like it, she still lets go of the toy after a few seconds) and so it's hard to reward her and keep her drive up. She'll almost always eat, but food kills her drive and we can't just always shovel the food in. She recently started turning up her nose at food and the trainer suggested she was oversaturated. So we backed off a bit and stopped feeding dinner in her bowl and things have really improved.At the same time, I've started trying to use praise and vocals as more of a reward. Actually, I thought of it more as setting the mood...if we're on a walk and she sees something potentially upsetting, I let her watch but do the happy talk thing and get excited about walking away until she makes the decision to break off without being reactive (I also reward with food for being calm and LookAtThat). Forcing her to break off was a trigger, so I've had great success with this and then I pet and praise her. She seems to like it a lot and is giving me a lot more focus voluntarily. I also warn her off of behaviors she shouldn't start with disapproving sounds. My trainer doesn't seem to like that, but I think it's a great tool. It's strong enough a punishment to get some results, but it isn't really punishing (i.e. it doesn't make my primitive dog start sulking) and we can move right on to the right behavior and be happy again. Psyche really loves chase and wrestling and I'd love to use those in lieu of a toy, but we have to be careful because she quickly starts using her mouth, which we want to mostly avoid. Anyway, yay for sensitive dogs! 
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Apr 22, 2011 13:36
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One way to reward your dog, if they love to chase balls is to use two of them: http://youtu.be/nIKzyGverRU and excuse my lazy gal. She's definately having some womanly problems ie. her heat is making her a bit lethargic, which is why I don't really train her during her heats. However I must say I'm, once again, impressed by how good her heeling looks even when it feels absolutely terrible to me. That is the way Healy was willing to play at first, before she learned to appreciate other ways. Nowadays she probably likes tug-o-war better. I love this game with two balls (or other toys) as it may work with dogs that'll try to get their owners to chase them around with the toys. It is not even really mandatory for the dog to really know any commands to be able to play this way as long as you won't bother others while doing it.
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Apr 22, 2011 15:44
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Kiri koli posted:I also warn her off of behaviors she shouldn't start with disapproving sounds. My trainer doesn't seem to like that, but I think it's a great tool. It's strong enough a punishment to get some results, but it isn't really punishing (i.e. it doesn't make my primitive dog start sulking) and we can move right on to the right behavior and be happy again. Kiri koli posted:Psyche really loves chase and wrestling and I'd love to use those in lieu of a toy, but we have to be careful because she quickly starts using her mouth, which we want to mostly avoid. Anyway, yay for sensitive dogs! Fake edit: Hi Riiseli and thanks again!
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Apr 22, 2011 15:49
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Rixatrix posted:I don't worry too much about Rho being mouthy. He's sometimes a little too rough even, but I suck it up because I want to build and keep up intensity and drive. He knows to take it easier when I yelp, and I tend to think a few cuts and bruises are a sign of a good training session anyway, even when rewarding Pi with a game of tug Oh yeah, I think a little mouthing is fine, as long as the dog understands what too hard is and knows when to stop. After all, a dog's mouth is a lot like their hands. I would love to wrestle with Psyche and just let her mouth and I think she would have no problems with playtime/not playtime boundaries. But she redirects and bites when under extreme stress (i.e when another dog comes flying around a corner at her), so it seems logical to discourage any skin/teeth contact. I've tried the two balls game with Psyche, but us playing with something doesn't guarantee her attention. She's interested or not on her own whims. I'm going to keep trying and hopefully build more interest in toys over time. I've started, when I'm going to throw something, saying 'Ready?! Ready?!' and pretending to throw it and that gets her excited, but usually just the first couple times (and she vastly prefers things like milk jugs to balls). We tried a few restrained recalls at the park and she'll run after me well enough and stop when she gets to me, but the restrained part seems to be a no-go. She doesn't strain against being pulled back, just kind of looks at you like you're an idiot until you start running.
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Apr 22, 2011 18:49
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 Why has my dog decided that her crate sucks!First thing I did when I got Spirit was crate train her, since I didn't want her roaming around the apartment while I was at work and getting into shenanigans. She took to it with no problems, popped right it with tail a'wagging when I said "Go to bed!" and stayed there with a bowl of water and a chew toy while I worked, no problems or hassles or anything. Then, two weeks ago, work went all crazy at me and I had to work a few evenings. On one she started kicking up a fuss in her crate, barking and whining when I put her in, because she's VERY firm on her routine and gets upset when it gets interupted. So I caved in and let her out because a) I have neighbors around me and didn't want her barking while I was gone and b) I really had to get back to work. Well I hosed myself good on that one, because it only took her one time to learn that if she bitches about it she doesn't have to go in the crate. Since then I've been trying to build the crate back up with her as a good thing. Treats rain like loving mana from heaven when she gets in there, she gets peanut butter smeared on a bone when the door closes, and I do not make a fuss about leaving or coming back - just "go to your crate" and "time to come out" when I leave and come back with no squeals or any excitement for either event. She STILL barks and whines and claws at the door as soon as it closes and I leave. Today I told her to go to bed and she laid on the floor, ears down and whimpering like she was saying "No ma please ma I'll be good ma don't make me go in there." It's not really seperation anxiety - if I don't put her in the crate and I leave the apartment she's quiet as a lamb and, honestly, she doesn't get into too much trouble if she's left out. But I'd much rather be safe than sorry and crate her when I'm not around to supervise, plus it gives the cat a break from her. She just hates it now 
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Apr 22, 2011 18:56
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I've noticed when I'm out walking Biscuit that many of my neighbors have horribly behaved dogs. It's one thing if your dog really wants to say hi to another dog and is jumping around excited, but these things are barking, growling, and lunging and trying to get loose. What on earth do I do if one gets loose and takes a run at her?
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Apr 22, 2011 19:42
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Silver Nitrate posted:What on earth do I do if one gets loose and takes a run at her?
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Apr 22, 2011 20:04
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Silver Nitrate posted:I've noticed when I'm out walking Biscuit that many of my neighbors have horribly behaved dogs. It's one thing if your dog really wants to say hi to another dog and is jumping around excited, but these things are barking, growling, and lunging and trying to get loose. If this is really a concern of yours the most humane thing to do is carry a small can of pepper spray. Look in an outdoors stuff. This is also the most appropriate defense against roaming bears. Anyone who says they are going to shoot them doesn't know what they are talking about.
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Apr 22, 2011 20:12
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a life less posted:I think the original intention of Look At That is a way for the dog to quickly get her ya-yas out and then continue actively working with you. The book McDevitt wrote was designed to create better control of a dog. Thanks! It does seem to be working, and a couple rounds of LAT is good for getting Lola's focus around her triggers, so I'll probably just carry on doing what I'm doing (maybe try to click a little early, but she does pre-empt it and glance between me and the trigger pretty quickly). Stupid puppy is too clever for me. You mentioned something about Focus earlier? (Clicking for eye contact.) Is that just used to keep your dog's attention around more exciting things, like a way of showing that you're always 'better' than the things around you? I'm having a problem teaching Lola how to bow right now. So far I'm just getting her into the position (by moving the treat toward the floor with my hand under her belly to keep her upright) and rewarding like crazy for holding the position. I had trouble teaching my other dog this, and she's a little easier because she's bigger. Lola is a seven month old JRT pup, so I can't really do a progressive toward-the-ground bow (click for bending legs, etc) - her movements are just too small and quick to see, and we've done enough treat near floor = lie down work that she just wants to flop straight down. Has anyone had any luck using an unusual method of teaching this? I think it's a problem with me, not with the puppy (I had trouble teaching Lola to stand, too - and I had trouble teaching that to my other dog).
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Apr 22, 2011 20:28
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Silver Nitrate posted:I've noticed when I'm out walking Biscuit that many of my neighbors have horribly behaved dogs. It's one thing if your dog really wants to say hi to another dog and is jumping around excited, but these things are barking, growling, and lunging and trying to get loose. As someone with one of these dogs, I just want to say that, although unfortunately most of your neighbors probably aren't, there are some of us who are trying really hard to train out this type of behavior, which can be due to past traumatizing experiences which were unavoidable. I really don't want to inconvenience my neighbors, but I find it really helpful when people with other dogs give us some space and don't walk directly toward us, which just increases my dog's anxiety. Keep in mind that it's almost certainly not the dog's fault (and may or may not be the owner's fault) and that you'll help out a lot if you can walk the other way a bit (or arc your walk away), especially if the owner is trying to remove their dog from the situation. I take GREAT care to make sure my dog doesn't get loose, but that being said, if she did and attacked, I would definitely recommend anyone get in between her and their dog and do whatever it takes, yelling, kicking, or even pepper spray. I think a lot of times the 'attacking' dog is mostly posturing (or does know how to properly express excitement) so yelling and making a fuss can go a long way. It's the owners job to manage their dog and your job to keep your dog safe.
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Apr 22, 2011 21:02
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Fraction posted:Thanks! It does seem to be working, and a couple rounds of LAT is good for getting Lola's focus around her triggers, so I'll probably just carry on doing what I'm doing (maybe try to click a little early, but she does pre-empt it and glance between me and the trigger pretty quickly). Stupid puppy is too clever for me. In short, yeah, focus is just getting the dog used to looking at you because they find you more reinforcing than the environment. You can put it on a formal cue, but that's pretty advanced behaviour. I tend to teach something I call assumed attention, which gets the dog used to looking at you and receiving reinforcement, then you gradually begin to add more distractions. With bow, some people lure it. I captured it with Cohen. Does Lola ever bow naturally during play? Cohen would dance around and bow before I kicked a ball, so I brought my clicker out with me to the park and clicked and treated each time she did it. It took a while for her to do it without a ball around, but with enough repetitions I managed to get it on cue. Capturing can be slow, but helpful for some of the more unusual tricks (sneezing, ear twitches, head shakes, etc). With luring, I've not done it myself. I hear you're supposed to a) have the dog standing up, b) have the treat at nose height, c) relatively quickly move the treat down and towards the dog diagonally. If the dog is being economical with their movements their nose and elbows should drop and they should leave their butt up in the air. But as I said, I'm not familiar with teaching it with luring. Here's a video that teaches it with luring.
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Apr 23, 2011 00:29
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Penny only goes into a down from a sit. So when she's standing if I put the treat on the ground in front of her she does a bow. Then a second later her butt flops down into a down. If I click and throw the treat a bit away quick enough she won't flop down and will stand back up to go get the treat.
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Apr 23, 2011 01:55
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Kiri koli posted:I really don't want to inconvenience my neighbors, but I find it really helpful when people with other dogs give us some space and don't walk directly toward us, which just increases my dog's anxiety. I think a better solution would be to see the situation and cross the street yourself rather than hoping others, who don't know your situation, go out of their way.
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Apr 23, 2011 04:36
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Lixer posted:I think a better solution would be to see the situation and cross the street yourself rather than hoping others, who don't know your situation, go out of their way. While that's certainly true, the simple fact is that it's a lot easier to guide a calm dog away from the situation than to drag away an agitated one.
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Apr 23, 2011 08:20
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a life less posted:With bow, some people lure it. I captured it with Cohen. Does Lola ever bow naturally during play? Cohen would dance around and bow before I kicked a ball, so I brought my clicker out with me to the park and clicked and treated each time she did it. It took a while for her to do it without a ball around, but with enough repetitions I managed to get it on cue. Capturing can be slow, but helpful for some of the more unusual tricks (sneezing, ear twitches, head shakes, etc). Lola only really bows when she's trying to initiate play with my other dog. She'll very occasionally bow when I have my foot on her boomer ball, but that ball (and most other balls) just sends her manic; she can't learn anything when she's that wild. I saw the youtube vid you linked before I started a couple days ago, funnily enough. I think I might have been moving too slowly with the treat - I'm going to try really fast moving the treat diagonally towards her and click for her following the treat, bending her elbows, etc, so that she gets the idea better that she isn't supposed to lie down. I might try using her target stick rather than a food lure, as it was pretty hard to fade the lure before when I was getting her in position and feeding for position.
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Apr 23, 2011 12:55
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