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I'm not seeing how Focht not being around somehow makes us better off with ComStar backpeddling and fighting border skirmishes. I mean, I get what you guys are saying from a factual standpoint (as in, how the alternate timeline would change), but not how that is supposed to keep ComStar from getting destroyed by the Clans or how ComStar being weaker and then panic shoving all their information on the other houses would be an improvement either strategically or in storyline potential. I have enough faith in PTN's writing abilities that there's probably going to be at least some consequences for leaving ComStar to their own devices for so long. So I guess we'll see in awhile. In the meantime, I guess we're going after the Swedish Chef. bork bork bork! [EDIT] PTN posted:Death Before Capture: A player ‘Mech destroyed by any means other than a direct headshot will explode, dealing 20 damage to all adjacent hexes. Olesh posted:Can someone enlighten me about what, exactly, is so special about Comstar's mechs/lostech? Star League era tech is superior to "modern" technology. A great deal of information was lost during the various Succession Wars in the Inner Sphere, so various mech designs and equipment (Guass Rifles, Double Heat Sinks, a lot of the command and control computers, fire control systems for missiles, etc) and the ability to produce them were lost to the great houses. This LosTech, while not directly equivalent to Clan tech, is much, much closer than the current IS tech. To use a military analogy, if the Clans have truly modern era technology, ComStar has WW2 era tech (basic tanks, SMGs, some assault rifles, etc) and the rest of the IS is using pre WW1 era crap. ComStar also, as mentioned by Defiance Industries, has the only true WarShip fleet in the IS. Which is a huge, huge boon when they get it in place. Zaodai fucked around with this message at 08:03 on Apr 21, 2011 |
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Apr 21, 2011 07:57
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Combat Theater Vote 4 Results were on the last pageZaodai posted:Stackpole rule! It's actually about a half-ton of nonreactive explosives.
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Apr 21, 2011 08:03
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PoptartsNinja posted:
Oh, well as long as things are clear. drat Cardassians  Zaodai posted:I'm not seeing how Focht not being around somehow makes us better off with ComStar backpeddling and fighting border skirmishes. Yeah, I think until we learn who is commanding the Com Gaurds, we have to assume they are going to be average IS troops at best even with their pimped out SLDF rides. In other words, the Clans are going to bitch slap them around until somebody like Yorinaga Kurita or somebody of that caliber takes over. Zaodai posted:In the meantime, I guess we're going after the Swedish Chef. bork bork bork! Hey now, we're not going to Rasalhague. Its Rinaldo fucked around with this message at 08:13 on Apr 21, 2011 |
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Apr 21, 2011 08:03
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Zaodai posted:I'm not seeing how Focht not being around somehow makes us better off with ComStar backpeddling and fighting border skirmishes. I don't know that you can safely move from "we haven't played ComGuards yet" to "the ComGuards are hosed." It's pretty clear that stuff is happening off-screen that the PCs aren't directly impacting; pushing back the ComGuards scenario may harm them a touch, but probably not cripple them. I just think you're putting too much emphasis on the notion that everyone in the IS is utterly incompetent unless they're being played by goons.
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Apr 21, 2011 08:13
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Olesh posted:Can someone enlighten me about what, exactly, is so special about Comstar's mechs/lostech? We are currently many decades before the events portrayed in MW3. As such, lots of the guns and equipment you had in MW3 don't exist yet for the majority of the IS factions (all but comstar really). The original star league designs, as published in TRO 2750, for the most part actually aren't all that amazing. Later sources introduced "Elite Guard" versions of mechs, denoted with a 'b' at the end of their model number, which, are actually pretty drat good as are the SL mechs in TRO 3058. Longinus00 fucked around with this message at 08:19 on Apr 21, 2011 |
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Apr 21, 2011 08:14
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Olesh posted:Can someone enlighten me about what, exactly, is so special about Comstar's mechs/lostech? There's several different levels of tech: Succession Wars, Star League, and Clan. The Houses right now are on succession war tech, ComStar still have Star League goodies. That's stuff like double heat sinks, CASE, Gauss rifles, Streak SRMs, and so on. Clantech is better, yeah, but Star League tech is a lot more competitive with it. Then you include stuff the IS invents in the Clan Invasion era, like C3 or Heavy PPCs or Stealth armor, and you got a winnable fight.
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Apr 21, 2011 08:24
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Olesh posted:
There are actually three tech levels floating around at this point: IS: 3025 Comstar: 2750 (Before the tech decay set in) Clans: Sweet bling. e.g. IS doesn't have Gauss Rifles, Comstar has basic Gauss Rifles and Clans have improved Gauss rifles. So yeah Comstar has shitter tech than the Clans, but it's better than the IS. Cthulhu Dreams fucked around with this message at 08:30 on Apr 21, 2011 |
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Apr 21, 2011 08:26
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All of ComStar's equipment and technology is also religiously maintained. Literally. It's not salvaged or patchwork gear, and Terra actually has both factories and fully stocked warehouses for things. They're all mint condition instead of ragged hand-me-downs.
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Apr 21, 2011 08:33
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Oh man. All fast lights and mostly jump capable. It sounds like where you're going will have pavement. And snow. And buildings. Have fun sliding everywhere into everything! edit: Oh, neat, that Javelin has double heat sinks. Time to jump everywhere. LeschNyhan fucked around with this message at 08:43 on Apr 21, 2011 |
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Apr 21, 2011 08:39
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LeschNyhan posted:Oh man. All fast lights and mostly jump capable. It sounds like where you're going will have pavement. And snow. Snow is actually the character name, not the weather, I'm pretty sure.
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Apr 21, 2011 08:47
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Yay, we're going to disrupt Inner Sphere politics at a critical juncture! The Clans will surely win now 
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Apr 21, 2011 08:47
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LeschNyhan posted:Oh man. All fast lights and mostly jump capable. It sounds like where you're going will have pavement. And snow. And buildings. Have fun sliding everywhere into everything! They're hitting Tharkad City with that group, they're going to be up to their assholes in the 1st Royal Guards.
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Apr 21, 2011 08:51
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DivineCoffeeBinge posted:I don't know that you can safely move from "we haven't played ComGuards yet" to "the ComGuards are hosed." It's pretty clear that stuff is happening off-screen that the PCs aren't directly impacting; pushing back the ComGuards scenario may harm them a touch, but probably not cripple them. It wouldn't be much of a narrative LP if the NPCs in the background do all the heavy lifting and win you the war. I'm not saying ComStar is completely hosed (yet. I hope PTN would have the guts to screw them over if they keep getting put on the back burner long enough), but people are assuming it's going to somehow work out better for ComStar to not have Goon intervention. I think it's pretty safe to assume that with the ComGuard being weaker than they were canonically (from what we know) and that background NPCs generally do more poorly than PCs, that ComStar is not going to be in a stronger position when shelved for a few missions than they would be if the Goons were using their toys to kick Clan rear end.
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Apr 21, 2011 09:05
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LeschNyhan posted:edit: Oh, neat, that Javelin has double heat sinks. Time to jump everywhere. I hate to be the bearer of bad news but the JVN-10N is the original Javelin.
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Apr 21, 2011 09:05
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Bad Moon posted:They're hitting Tharkad City with that group, they're going to be up to their assholes in the 1st Royal Guards. With that group? If you guys run in to anything more than the 1st Royal Guards' recon elements you are in some serious poo poo.
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Apr 21, 2011 09:07
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Zaodai posted:I think it's pretty safe to assume that with the ComGuard being weaker than they were canonically (from what we know) and that background NPCs generally do more poorly than PCs, that ComStar is not going to be in a stronger position when shelved for a few missions than they would be if the Goons were using their toys to kick Clan rear end. I don't think anyone is arguing they'll be in a strong material position, just that they might change their course of action. A very different question. Waterly is dangerous.
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Apr 21, 2011 09:08
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Zaodai posted:It wouldn't be much of a narrative LP if the NPCs in the background do all the heavy lifting and win you the war. I'm not saying ComStar is completely hosed (yet. I hope PTN would have the guts to screw them over if they keep getting put on the back burner long enough), but people are assuming it's going to somehow work out better for ComStar to not have Goon intervention. I think it's pretty safe to assume that with the ComGuard being weaker than they were canonically (from what we know) and that background NPCs generally do more poorly than PCs, that ComStar is not going to be in a stronger position when shelved for a few missions than they would be if the Goons were using their toys to kick Clan rear end. Oh, absolutely it would be better for ComStar if the goons were kicking rear end and taking names, but that's a hell of a far cry from "how that is supposed to keep ComStar from getting destroyed by the Clans" is all I'm saying. Besides, a ComStar weakened by a string of defeats means that when the goons DO play them, they'll be more willing to put some of their bigger chips into play and dust off the toys they save for special occasions... and that there's a better chance for heroes to rise from the proverbial ashes. Given PTN's writing, I'd say that's right in his wheelhouse. So no, I'm in no hurry to see the ComGuards - I rather like the idea of the Clans making steady inroads towards the IS until the goons take the reins and become the first group to Hold The Line. But anyways, that's all secondary. My point is I think you're going overboard with the gloom n' doom, that's all.
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Apr 21, 2011 09:11
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DivineCoffeeBinge posted:Oh, absolutely it would be better for ComStar if the goons were kicking rear end and taking names, but that's a hell of a far cry from "how that is supposed to keep ComStar from getting destroyed by the Clans" is all I'm saying. That's all well and good but if we don't fight the clans then people will never vote for Bobbin's scenario since the argument against that is "it's too early to fight as the clans!"
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Apr 21, 2011 09:14
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If ComStar is so stupid they save their big guns to use in a suicidal last stand, then PTN's writing will be so horrible that he should hang himself out of shame. Plus, having "better" ComStar mechs still puts you at a disadvantage to the objectively better Clan mechs. Heroic last stands are only a good thing if you win, unless PTN's story ends in victory either way. In which case, we're right back to the gallows. (For the record, despite my pessimistic nature, I'm reasonably confident PTN is going to have some sort of actual in-universe consequences for the actions of the Goon hivemind. I give him that much credit as a writer.)
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Apr 21, 2011 09:21
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Longinus00 posted:That's all well and good but if we don't fight the clans then people will never vote for Bobbin's scenario since the argument against that is "it's too early to fight as the clans!" What kind of logic is that? We're going to fight as the clans at the next opportunity because the Clans rule and have awesome mechs. Don't you want awesome mechs that aren't Awesomes? I know I do.
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Apr 21, 2011 09:28
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evilmiera posted:What kind of logic is that? We're going to fight as the clans at the next opportunity because the Clans rule and have awesome mechs. Don't you want awesome mechs that aren't Awesomes? I know I do. The kind of logic that led to C losing this vote.  Zaodai posted:If ComStar is so stupid they save their big guns to use in a suicidal last stand, then PTN's writing will be so horrible that he should hang himself out of shame. I honestly have no idea what you're talking about.
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Apr 21, 2011 09:33
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Longinus00 posted:I hate to be the bearer of bad news but the JVN-10N is the original Javelin. Whoops, I guess sarna.net has it wrong then. Also re the snow thing...it's THARKAD.
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Apr 21, 2011 09:33
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Zaodai posted:I'm not seeing how Focht not being around somehow makes us better off with ComStar backpeddling and fighting border skirmishes. Well, here's the thing: We're well before Focht was established as a Big Deal, and in fact we're before Focht became Precentor-Martial in the first place. Canonly, there's not a lot of information on the Com Guards before that point; it's stated that having someone like Focht as Precentor-Martial was a big deal, but we don't really know for sure how big a deal. Maybe Focht was as huge an influence as they say. Or, maybe, the Com Guard was pretty awesome before then, and just needed a little extra touch for large-unit engagements (since obviously, while small-unit covert ops stuff was fine and dandy, regimental or LIII/LIV size battles hadn't happened for them). There's more than one possibility, and it's not a given that pre-Focht ComGuards were as much worse as some people here are trying to imply. Additionally, we're in uncharted territory here. This Inner Sphere is obviously different. We can all agree there. Given that fact, we don't really know what this ComGuard is entirely like. Maybe they already have their version of Focht and are the badasses we know and love. Maybe they're completely green. Clearly they are much more willing to commit troops against a barely known enemy, which technically supports both extremes simultaneously. Certainly, they're not going to fare too much better than anyone else at first, given the unfamiliarity with the Clans, but it's certainly possible that they'll turn it around first.
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Apr 21, 2011 10:02
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Isn't Focht = General of the Armies Frederick Steiner still? Also everyone keeps mentioning Katrina Steiner, but she's dead and gone. Probably killed by Lestrade who framed the Kell Hounds. Defiance Industries posted:With that group? If you guys run in to anything more than the 1st Royal Guards' recon elements you are in some serious poo poo. Luckily! The mission objectives are not "Defeat the 1st Royal Guards", its "keep someone alive" which might be difficult and "destroy objective" which might be a building. With jumpjets and fast mechs we can run circles around any heavier Royal Guards we stumble across.
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Apr 21, 2011 10:16
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Defiance Industries posted:Hey, since I voted ComStar I am taking that as my cue to start guessing. Hermann Steiner would have some entertaining symmetries in this timeline. Bad Moon posted:They're hitting Tharkad City with that group, they're going to be up to their assholes in the 1st Royal Guards. It would be fun if those Griffins behind the throne got some play. As for the scenario, good to see some light Mech love. Keep jumping!
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Apr 21, 2011 10:27
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Fraction Jackson posted:
It's also possible that the players are supposed to fill the Focht-void in this timeline (which would be pretty sweet, on a macro level), but overall I don't disagree with your point. I sort of assumed that because ComStar was fighting piecemeal with garrison units, that they'd be weaker than the canon timeline ComStar, but you're right, that's not absolutely certain. My overall point, though, was that regardless of how powerful ComStar is as a faction in this timeline, I think it's far more likely their position is weakening behind the scenes than strengthening. Presumably as the goon hivemind completes missions, the timeline is moving forward even for the factions we don't play. Without the strong leadership of the goons (  ), ComStar is likely going to take longer to move their front-line units into the War and use them as a cohesive force rather than trying to defend every world with an HPG uplink on it. The more garrison forces that get knocked out, the weaker ComStar is overall when they do finally get off their asses and decide it's time to strike back.
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Apr 21, 2011 10:46
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Rational Argument
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Somehow I got the picture that ComStar has this LosTech AI based on GOONS that they use to control their armies hilarious.
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Apr 21, 2011 10:55
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The Merry Marauder posted:Hermann Steiner would have some entertaining symmetries in this timeline. They're basically the best shots in the Inner Sphere. I wouldn't want to see what a guy with a gunnery of 1 or 0 does with a PPC to a light mech.
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Apr 21, 2011 11:07
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Affi posted:Somehow I got the picture that ComStar has this LosTech AI based on GOONS that they use to control their armies hilarious. Now you know how ComStar ended up with their flagship being the CSS Dongs
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Apr 21, 2011 11:33
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Bad Moon posted:Hey now, we're not going to Rasalhague. That's a shame. Swedenese cooking is just awesome. Swedish meatballs rolled in sticky-rice, over a bed of rice with some minced vegetables, tofu and meat, smothered in gravy cut with wasabi. That's some good times, yo.
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Apr 21, 2011 12:07
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I got bored and had to skim over everything but the interesting post PTN made, are we still backbiting and complaining about the vote results? If so, we are totally trying to rescue Melissa Steiner from Duke Lestrade. This is my wager given the vagueness of the objectives. And as food for thought; if goons did not do this, it is entirely possible that the Commonwealth would come apart at the seams even faster, giving the left two clans ( :viper: ) a much easier route towards Terra. You cannot just pick one thing and say YOU GOONS ARE MORONS FOR NOT DOING THIS WE ARE ALL DOOMED and assume not doing the other missions will not have consequences.
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Apr 21, 2011 12:42
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I never said the other missions didn't have consequences, nor did I call all you What we were actually discussing in the most recent page is whether the lack of Focht's guidance will have a significant effect on the starting strength of ComStar and thus their ability to weather the consequences of our decision. I'll be watching like everyone else when the mission starts, but since it hasn't there wasn't any harm in the side discussion.
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Apr 21, 2011 13:05
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ShadowDragon8685 posted:That's a shame. Swedenese cooking is just awesome. As a Swede I must say that isn't very Swedish when it comes to meatballs. 
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Apr 21, 2011 13:11
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Cooked Auto posted:As a Swede I must say that isn't very Swedish when it comes to meatballs. Well, the Japanese did do the conquering in that particular melting pot.  edit: Also, the clear answer is for Justin Xiang to narrowly fail his coup attempt and for him to flee to Earth and become Precentor Martial. 
Mukaikubo fucked around with this message at 13:31 on Apr 21, 2011 |
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Apr 21, 2011 13:23
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Affi posted:Somehow I got the picture that ComStar has this LosTech AI based on GOONS that they use to control their armies hilarious. The Goon SDS? If we get a WarShip battle against Clan Snow Raven that would be pretty hilarious. WarShips are really the one place where ComStar has a no-poo poo advantage over the Clans. IS ASF pilots often managed favorable kill ratios against Clan ones due to much more experience and doctrine, and ComStar's vintage WarShips are literally just as good as the Clan ones, because the Clan ones don't use their advantages for fighting ability, just more cargo space. So you have equivalent green crews, but ComStar has better fighter jocks who aren't all that far away from Clan standards. If they have Royal versions of the fighters, they actually are much better off tech-wise than Clan pilots, which means they can easily get superior kill ratios. You see, one of the big advantages of the Clans is that their XL engines don't cause a mission-kill with a side torso loss... but XL engines in aerospace fighters function identically. Similarly, the Clan range advantage isn't nearly as pronounced because range brackets have their own to-hit penalties and the range of a weapon just tells you how far away you can engage from. There's a reason why quite a few people consider the Eisensturm the best ASF period, even comparing it to Clan designs.
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Apr 21, 2011 14:56
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I'm unsure if I'm thinking too far into the future of the timeline, but doesn't ComStar also have the ability to build larger WarShips than the Clans were used to having/larger than they had when they left the IS?
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Apr 21, 2011 15:04
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Zaodai posted:I'm unsure if I'm thinking too far into the future of the timeline, but doesn't ComStar also have the ability to build larger WarShips than the Clans were used to having/larger than they had when they left the IS? The Faslane class yardship has a yard that can support the construction of a 2-million ton WarShip, and the largest Star League era ship is the McKenna, at 1.93 million tons, so not really. The largest ship in canon is the Leviathan II, which is a Clan Ghost Bear design. ComStar's not so bad at WarShip design but they don't really have any technological edge over the Clans. They just know what they're doing and that helps a hell of a lot.
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Apr 21, 2011 15:15
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in case anyone wonders that guy is riding this ugly rear end thing:
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Apr 21, 2011 15:36
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Can we please stop talking about the vote and start focusing on the things that matter?code: With light mechs, especially IS Level 1 mechs, the roles are generally pretty obvious. The LRM is the primary weapon, but you do want to make an effort to bring your laser to bear. This is a cool machine, so use those jets liberally. code: A close range design. With little armor, no jumpjets and a lot of ammunition, your ability to survive is dictated by how long you go without getting shot. Wait for the right opportunity, however, and those SRMs and laser can give somebody a very bad day. code:This mech is fast, has jumpjets, and is versatile. Range 6 is your sweet-spot, as you can fire both your lasers and SRMs while being mostly outside of the minimum range for your LRMs. Firing everything while jumping 7 will generate heat, but that beats the alternative of eating a big gun. code: A fun mech which I like. Tremendous short range firepower with the ability to crit-seek, while also possessing the mobility to take advantage of it. Just make sure you don't get shot. In the end, you are all fast and have fairly good firepower for your size. The risk of running out of ammo is slim with your mechs, but it could be an issue if a prolonged mission occurs. Just make sure you don't get shot. You have no armor and a lot of ammo. I see bad weather on the horizon. 
KnoxZone fucked around with this message at 16:00 on Apr 21, 2011 |
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Apr 21, 2011 15:45
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yeah all of the mech picks rely alot on not getting hit, this could be a hard mission.
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Apr 21, 2011 15:48
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