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Xmas Future posted:Hey It's the only Clan invasion-era novel I enjoy without a "but" on there.
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Apr 22, 2011 01:58
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Exodus Road is awesome.
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Zaodai posted:You generally don't send a tank and some mechs to guard a night club, either. But here we are. I..don't think I agree on any one of your points, except for not using a mech to guard a nightclub. There's obviously something going on there. Anyway, the point is, this is a police force, not a military. If you just set off an explosion, they'll send an on-foot unit to investigate. If you start rampaging with a mech, they'll send mechs to deal with it because they don't know what you're going to destroy next. It's on the stated goals to minimize collateral damage, but the local police can't know that, they have to believe you'll burn down the whole city if you need to. Likewise, shooting them and running away is one step up from painting a big X on the ground and saying 'please stand here' in the 'obviously a trap' category. Anyway, that's about as much energy as I can spare for a nerdfight.
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Apr 22, 2011 02:08
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Gothsheep posted:Likewise, shooting them and running away is one step up from painting a big X on the ground and saying 'please stand here' in the 'obviously a trap' category. From my experience in the old Tribes 1 multiplayer, shooting and then running is the HEIGHT of battlefield subterfuge. Worked every time. That being said, I don't know who Lestrade is but he's a duke and that means he's one letter away from sounding like dookey. Therefore, by logical progression, his statue deserves a faceful of SRMs.
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Apr 22, 2011 02:12
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wiegieman posted:"the only truly visible patch was the black spider adorning each ‘Mech" I'm pretty sure that's the Clan Widowmaker symbol.
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Apr 22, 2011 02:13
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malkav11 posted:I'm pretty sure that's the Clan Widowmaker symbol. A bastardization of it, based on extremely blurry footage, yes.
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Apr 22, 2011 02:13
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If destroying one statue in the middle of a park is considered a rampage to you, then I guess your argument makes sense. The fact that they're willing to pull their (lovely) guards away from whatever is in this night club to investigate a statue getting destroyed in the first place is pretty stupid, when they're bound to have other assets in the city. Or perhaps a helicopter or fighter flyover to at least confirm it. You're still suggesting they somehow psychically know whether the statue is destroyed by mechs or if it was destroyed by infantry/vehicles/whatever. They're sending their guards out to investigate something they have no info on other than "Statue done blowed up!". They're probably not going to care that it's a trap if a mech flies up and shoots them. At least then they know for certain there are enemy battlemech forces within the confines of the city.
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Apr 22, 2011 02:16
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The twist is that the Widowmakers show up on the planet during the mission and summarily execute every one of the PCs for wearing their colors.  In all seriousness, I'm really intrigued by the scenario. We haven't had any urban combat yet, and I'm curious to see what's in store. So, our terrorists are some group of deep sleeper agents that have just been activated I gather? There's obviously something going on with the nightclub to begin with if there's a small military force here already. I don't imagine it's normal in the normally lightly garrisoned worlds of the Inner Sphere to have expensive mechanized patrols in a population center, is it?
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Apr 22, 2011 02:20
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Hold on, "Additionally: This mission is occuring under Heavy Fog, which applies an additional +2 MP penalty to every hex." The hell? Does this count for jumping, as well? That's going to be extremely annoying. Edit: Nevermind, I just noticed that answered in the OP. Still really annoying. TildeATH fucked around with this message at 02:36 on Apr 22, 2011 |
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Apr 22, 2011 02:33
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Veyrall posted:That being said, I don't know who Lestrade is but he's a duke and that means he's one letter away from sounding like dookey. Therefore, by logical progression, his statue deserves a faceful of SRMs. Aldo Lestrade is the current power behind the throne of the Lyran Commonwealth. He's also a backstabbing rear end in a top hat. @Octatonic: This is Tharkad City, mind you. Capital City of the entire Lyran Commonwealth and all that. But yeah, given that those guys have been identified as Loki, their presence does mean that something's going on.
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Apr 22, 2011 02:37
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^ Nope, that's just for ground movement. Also, you can use Reckless Movement to disregard it, but you'll have to eat Piloting Skill Rolls to not do stupid poo poo like trip on an 18-wheeler or clothesline yourself on a gigantic concrete hospital awning. As for Zaodai's points... Start fires. Torch it all! Torch the park, torch every non-residential building unlucky enough to be in your line of fire. Make the DFA'ing of that hideous statue of that gently caress-ugly treasonous oval office Lestrade the crowning masterpiece of your reign of terror.
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Apr 22, 2011 02:38
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TildeATH posted:Hold on, It was ZeeToo's choice. At least you can attempt a piloting test to ignore the fog and move at your full speed, if you're feeling lucky. You couldn't have done that for some of the other options (deep snow).
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Apr 22, 2011 02:39
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Zaodai posted:This actually made me laugh out loud when I read it. Then I saw you picked relatively tame atmospheric conditions that cripple the enemy. For shame. Yeah, I decided not to be too cruel. Some of my options looked to me (I'm not great with the rules) like they'd actualy go beyond annoying and deep into frustrating, though; large penalties to hit and to movement looked like they could have just bogged down the game to no end. Sort of regret that I didn't throw in some snowfall or something, but I decided a big killing field with just a bit of difficulty to hit and move would make for a quick and brutal mission. Also (rules ignorance again) I'm not actually sure what would be the ideal weather for an Urbanmech.  TildeATH posted:Nevermind, I just noticed that answered in the OP. Still really annoying. Some of the other options would have given you huge penalties to hit and slowed you down further; I could have been far crueler. I hope it's not too annoying, but the point of the weather wasn't to make everything too easy, either, just to complicate it interestingly.
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Apr 22, 2011 02:43
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Wait, why does having a Full Moon add a +2 penalty to all weapon rolls? Wouldn't a Full Moon make it easier to see your targets, giving a bonus to hit? Or am I just misunderstanding something? Also, interesting mission by the looks of it right now. Destroying the statue of Duke Lestrade sounds like a hilarious mission objective. Wonder what's so important in the nightclub to warrant a guard of two Mechs, albeit Stingers at that, and two tanks... I guess we'll find out when that statue gets destroyed...
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Apr 22, 2011 02:44
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ZeeToo posted:Also (rules ignorance again) I'm not actually sure what would be the ideal weather for an Urbanmech. Now your vaunted champion needs a piloting skill roll to move more than 1 square a turn. WHERE IS YOUR GOD NOW!!! The weather's fine, I'm sure, I just was kind of shocked at slowing the game down even more, given the post-to-fiery-death ratio already demonstrated by the thread. Still, I've got jumpjets, so I really don't care.
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Apr 22, 2011 02:47
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GhostStalker posted:Wait, why does having a Full Moon add a +2 penalty to all weapon rolls? Wouldn't a Full Moon make it easier to see your targets, giving a bonus to hit? Or am I just misunderstanding something? Because normally it's daytime. A night without a full moon has much nastier penalties.
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Apr 22, 2011 02:49
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Zaodai posted:The fact that they're willing to pull their (lovely) guards away from whatever is in this night club to investigate a statue getting destroyed in the first place is pretty stupid, when they're bound to have other assets in the city. Or perhaps a helicopter or fighter flyover to at least confirm it. It's a public monument being destroyed by giant robots in the middle of the night. This doesn't strike you as something out of the ordinary? This isn't something you'd go investigate? Remind me never to hire you as a bodyguard.
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Apr 22, 2011 02:53
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They don't know at that point it's giant robots! There's heavy fog and it's nighttime. You're telling me that all of a sudden they're going to know with perfect clarity it was enemy mechs that took out the statue? I used to work doing private security when I was younger. That's why this makes no sense. You're pulling your entire (meager) security force away from their target to investigate a bump in the night. It's flat out loving stupid. You don't go wandering off into the darkness like it's a slasher flick, you call for backup and start a search. If you want bodyguards that will go investigate glorified vandalism rather than protecting you, you deserve the brutal murder that's inherently going to get through to you.
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Apr 22, 2011 03:00
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Zaodai posted:They don't know at that point it's giant robots! There's heavy fog and it's nighttime. You're telling me that all of a sudden they're going to know with perfect clarity it was enemy mechs that took out the statue? Yes, it's pretty obvious that 'Mechs are involved once they start checking comm. channels and swap to magnetic resonance--the statue is in the middle of a park with no big metallic things around it and the players are well inside Radar range.
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Apr 22, 2011 03:03
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ZeeToo posted:Because normally it's daytime. Herp derp. That makes sense... I guess I misread the New Moon penalties as well. Whoops.
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Apr 22, 2011 03:09
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Zaodai posted:Me Oh goddammit, then I editted. gently caress. Whatever it was I said, I totally won this one. Forever. Veyrall fucked around with this message at 03:21 on Apr 22, 2011 |
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Apr 22, 2011 03:10
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PoptartsNinja posted:Yes, it's pretty obvious that 'Mechs are involved once they start checking comm. channels and swap to magnetic resonance--the statue is in the middle of a park with no big metallic things around it and the players are well inside Radar range. There are plenty of buildings around that are full of steel, and one would hope the strike force isn't going to walk right up to the statue to shoot it (or commit the entire force to hitting it). What's the max range on LRMs in hexes, anyway? I think they could actually hit the statue from behind a building (LOS-wise) if they wanted to. I'm still not convinced that the assault force couldn't have brought in some sappers to take out the target more effectively (if they're certain an explosion will draw off security) rather than leaving their actual attack units out of position. Plus, it still doesn't change that the security force should call in reinforcements to start a search rather than leaving their target, especially if they do apparently have the battlefield eye view to know it's a whole Lance of mechs. I understand that compromises have to be made for the sake of gameplay, and that's fine. But people really shouldn't be trying to argue that it's realistic or that it makes perfect sense when it doesn't. [EDIT] Veyrall posted:I have a strange suspicion that 20-40 tons of machine footsteps aren't exactly silent. The footsteps probably aren't silent. But they're also not pinpoint locators. This lends more support for my theory of "have foot troops cause the explosion while your mechs are in a different direction" As for indoor forces, that's true. But we're in battlemechs and not allowed to blow up the building. It's fairly safe to assume that any interior forces are going to be armed with small arms/anti-infantry weapons, because we can't level the building to get them out if it turns out to be 3 squads of guys with missile launchers. And yes, guarding the building is included in with "Bodyguards" in this case. They're site security, as it were. They're guarding something or someone of importance inside the nightclub, or perhaps trying to capture someone or something from a third party inside the night club. If they have other assets in the area (which I agree, they really should), you never pull the security you have on the building away from that location. You call in the other assets and let them try to drive off or destroy the attack force. Zaodai fucked around with this message at 03:18 on Apr 22, 2011 |
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Apr 22, 2011 03:13
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I'm not telling you everything that's going on. I'm not telling you Heimdall's plan. I'm not telling you why LOKI is here, or what they're about to do. The players simply have a list of objectives to accomplish. Normally, I don't mind the nitpicking; but in this case it's premature. There is a reason the statue is the first target, and I'm not telling you what that reason is. Yet. PoptartsNinja fucked around with this message at 03:21 on Apr 22, 2011 |
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Apr 22, 2011 03:16
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If you knew everything you might compromise the mission if captured. All it takes is getting KOed and then Lohengrin's counter-insurgency teams have their anti-mech infantry pulling you out of the cockpit. The less you know the safer we are.
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Apr 22, 2011 03:19
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Veyrall posted:I think we're assuming these enemies are bodyguards. They might be guarding the building itself. And there may be more. There better be more, or this will be a cakewalk. I'm expecting a company of urbanmechs.
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Apr 22, 2011 03:20
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gently caress, I make an argument, decide I don't feel like arguing, get quoted and now I feel like a total douche sandwich for forgeting where I was going with that. Umm....Zaodai, you're wrong because you're Dong Zhuo*. My logic is cast-iron. *At least, I think your avatar is Dong Zhuo Zaodai posted:I'm not actually Chinese *shhhhhhh* 
Veyrall fucked around with this message at 03:43 on Apr 22, 2011 |
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Apr 22, 2011 03:23
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Veyrall posted:*At least, I think your avatar is Dong Zhuo It is. Crudely stolen from one of the older Rot3K games on the SNES. With his only major character traits being "fat" and "evil", it seemed the perfect avatar for my fake-Chinese internet persona. =P [EDIT] ^^^^^ What I lack in slanted eyes and fondness for rice, I more than make up for in 
Zaodai fucked around with this message at 04:04 on Apr 22, 2011 |
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Apr 22, 2011 03:29
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If the Assassin were to hop on top of the level 5 building in hex 1124, would the clump of light woods centered at 1217 still affect line of sight?
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Apr 22, 2011 04:02
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A good poster posted:If the Assassin were to hop on top of the level 5 building in hex 1124, would the clump of light woods centered at 1217 still affect line of sight? No. quote:Woods: Woods rise 2 levels above the levels of the hex they are in. Following these rules nothing can interfere with LoS if the attacker is sufficiently high unless it is adjacent to the target.
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Apr 22, 2011 04:24
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What's that? You want us to speculate? Heimdall's probably here in mechs to threaten something using a lot of firepower, or protect something that needs a lot of firepower to protect. Since they're guerrillas / vigilantes /domestic terrorists it's probably the former but who knows. They're doing it in disguise and with fail-safes because it either absolutely can't be traced back to them or absolutely needs to be this group blamed for it. They're doing it in light mechs because that's all they can get in or they need to move around a lot while they do it. Whoever or whatever LOKI is hanging around, they're probably really important. Either way, there's going to be a big ruckus right near the core of the Lyrans and this should scare ComStar a little in the way of clan deep-strike forces. Even though they're apparently doing a really bad job of impersonating them. Or I could be completely wrong and it's just an excuse for a spy-themed city fight.
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Apr 22, 2011 04:28
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A good poster posted:If the Assassin were to hop on top of the level 5 building in hex 1124, would the clump of light woods centered at 1217 still affect line of sight? This would likely cause damage to the building though and collateral was supposed to be minimal to none.
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Apr 22, 2011 04:28
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Nah, a heavy building can support up to a 90 ton 'Mech standing on it with no damage. A light building, however, will collapse under even a Stinger.
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Apr 22, 2011 04:31
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PoptartsNinja posted:Normally, I don't mind the nitpicking; but in this case it's premature. I really mind the nitpicking. Maybe it's because I consumed the whole thread in two weeks, but I'm really sick of reading Zaodai's seemingly limitless capacity to attempt to use in-game reasoning to undermine your decisions about scenario and narrative and game structure. (Also implying people are voting wrongly or stupidly, as if some of the scenario choices you're offering are traps for the stupid.) It got especially bad two scenarios ago when he kept implying you were somehow coddling the players and therefore doing it wrong. If some detail of the scenario puzzles you, you have a choice: you can insist it makes no sense, or you can actually be creative and think of ways in which it could possibly make sense. The former is irritating and the latter is actually productive and, potentially, a helpful contribution.
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Apr 22, 2011 04:45
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PoptartsNinja posted:Nah, a heavy building can support up to a 90 ton 'Mech standing on it with no damage. A light building, however, will collapse under even a Stinger. Fairly reasonable, I'd be doubtful of even parking a large truck on our house, let alone a 20-ton mech
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Apr 22, 2011 04:46
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Xmas Future posted:Hey
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Apr 22, 2011 04:56
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Gay Abortions posted:[Battletech fiction is always] one ripped jumpsuit away from a trashy romance novel in space. Fixed that for you.
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Apr 22, 2011 04:57
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Leperflesh posted:I really mind the nitpicking. Maybe it's because I consumed the whole thread in two weeks, but I'm really sick of reading Zaodai's seemingly limitless capacity to attempt to use in-game reasoning to undermine your decisions about scenario and narrative and game structure. (Also implying people are voting wrongly or stupidly, as if some of the scenario choices you're offering are traps for the stupid.) It got especially bad two scenarios ago when he kept implying you were somehow coddling the players and therefore doing it wrong. Other people also have the option of not trying to use rear end-pulls to rationalize it when they know I'm going to argue it. I'm not arguing against PTN's planning from a narrative standpoint, I'm arguing against the people who try to claim it's realistic or perfectly rational from a military standpoint. When generally, whatever I'm arguing is not. If people would accept that narrative handwaves occur and that they make no rational sense rather than trying to shout it down, you wouldn't have to read my oh-so-intrusive bouts of logic and reasoning. It takes at least two people to have an argument.
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Apr 22, 2011 04:57
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PoptartsNinja posted:Fixed that for you.
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Apr 22, 2011 05:06
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So as far as actual tactics for pulling this off go: spotting for LRMs is pretty terrible, especially with the night penalties. Does the Assassin want to spot for me or do we want the Javelin/Commando to spot for both of us? Or are we just gonna rush the statue and do DFA? Let's get some kind of plan in here guys.
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Apr 22, 2011 05:14
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Gay Abortions posted:I like thinly-veiled M/s romances as much as the next person, but Exodus Road was one ripped jumpsuit away from a trashy romance novel in space.
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Apr 22, 2011 05:23
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I actually thought Exodus Road was far and away the best of the 'Twilight of the Clans' books detailing, well, what the name says. It was kind of oddly touching, especially after the end of the series when you get to see the payoff Trent got for spilling the beans. It also did a lot to... I do not know if this is the word I want, but 'humanize' the Clans in my eyes as being full of- well- people. With petty politics, stupid bullshit, and all that stuff.
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Apr 22, 2011 05:26
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