|
quote:Update: The Commando just cannot catch a break, Kaboom Dragoon has also passed. Terror Storm is up to bat! OK! Since I'm a newbie to the tabletop version anyone got any tips for my first move? Otherwise I'm planning to just walk to 0523.
|
#
?
Apr 23, 2011 15:34
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 10, 2024 20:03 |
|
|
Terror storm posted:Since I'm a newbie to the tabletop version anyone got any tips for my first move? Otherwise I'm planning to just walk to 0523. Sucks you got the ground-bound Mech. You actually can't walk to 0523 - for one thing, the weather conditions impose a +2MP per hex, unless you make a Piloting roll to ignore it, but even if you do overcome that, there's a slope up at 0524 that makes you spend an extra MP. In short, you could risk the PSR (Piloting Skill Roll) to walk to 0524, you could make the PSR and run to 0521, or you could trudge along carefully to 0526. I don't know what the consequences of a failed PSR in this situation would be (some damage, presumably). E: You fail the PSR, you fall and have to stand up. You only have to roll once per movement phase, unless you go into the woods or something, then it's every non-clear hex. The Merry Marauder fucked around with this message at 16:11 on Apr 23, 2011 |
|
#
?
Apr 23, 2011 16:01
|
|
|
This scenario should have a very different tenor to those that have come before it, looking forward to seeing this unfold. What the hell, add me to the gigantic pilot roster. Email is redacted, ironically enough. Please hit me up with a message so I can know to remove this. SageNytell fucked around with this message at 02:56 on Oct 22, 2012 |
|
#
?
Apr 23, 2011 16:17
|
|
|
If you've already been spotted then you might as well run to keep up with your jumping buddies. Hopefully the roll won't need a check higher than a 6, so you should have decent odds of pulling it off. Maybe this is an effect of the thread but after the Clan PPC headshot and poor Engine Joe, the first thing I checked on all the PC mechs was if a PPC could one shot them in the head. Yes it can, but only for two of them. Fortunately, so far there is no armor on the field with a PPC (yet). Edit: Good god why does the Assassin have 50 rounds of SRM2 ammo. Krumbsthumbs fucked around with this message at 16:26 on Apr 23, 2011 |
|
#
?
Apr 23, 2011 16:21
|
|
|
quote:the weather conditions impose a +2MP per hex Well that chances my vague plans somewhat. Thanks for the reminder and orders sent.
|
|
#
?
Apr 23, 2011 16:31
|
|
|
Krumbsthumbs posted:If you've already been spotted then you might as well run to keep up with your jumping buddies. Hopefully the roll won't need a check higher than a 6, so you should have decent odds of pulling it off. A ton of SRM ammo is 100 missiles. Unlike machine gun ammo, I don't think you can allot missile ammo in half-ton lots. I do think, though, that SRM-2 launchers are sort of a waste; you will never use up that entire ton of ammo and will likely die if the missiles cook off in an ammo explosion. landcollector fucked around with this message at 16:57 on Apr 23, 2011 |
|
#
?
Apr 23, 2011 16:36
|
|
|
Krumbsthumbs posted:Edit: Good god why does the Assassin have 50 rounds of SRM2 ammo. Because that's the smallest number it CAN have. A better question might be, "Why does the Assassin have an SRM-2 and ammo instead of another LRM-5 or a couple more MLs or some better armor or drat near ANYTHING else but an SRM-2?"
|
|
#
?
Apr 23, 2011 16:38
|
|
|
Krumbsthumbs posted:Edit: Good god why does the Assassin have 50 rounds of SRM2 ammo. That's how much ammo it has by default? The missile launchers are roughly balanced on making damage/ammo/weight ratios the same across the board (.i.e 4 lrm5s ≈ 1 lrm20 and 3 srm4 ≈ 2 srm6). The only exception to this is the srm2 as the cluster table for 2 hits gives better returns than the other ones.
|
|
#
?
Apr 23, 2011 16:39
|
|
|
Longinus00 posted:That's how much ammo it has by default? The missile launchers are roughly balanced on making damage/ammo/weight ratios the same across the board (.i.e 4 lrm5s ≈ 1 lrm20 and 3 srm4 ≈ 2 srm6). The only exception to this is the srm2 as the cluster table for 2 hits gives better returns than the other ones. I was about to comment that I was missing a few tons when redesigning this mech to spec via software, but it seems I was missing just how many jump jets this thing has. As someone who tends to build his mechs with a lot of guns as a holdover from the PC games, this mech is looking crazy fast. But I also cannot see why it would ever need an SRM. Edit: At the cost of 2 jump jet points, you can stick another LRM-5 with ammo on there and become a real hassle for anything that is unable to keep up with you. Edit 2: vvvv Well, if you say so. I'm still very new to this whole tabletop thing. evilmiera fucked around with this message at 18:59 on Apr 23, 2011 |
|
#
?
Apr 23, 2011 18:03
|
|
|
evilmiera posted:I was about to comment that I was missing a few tons when redesigning this mech to spec via software, but it seems I was missing just how many jump jets this thing has. Going from 7 jump mp to 5 jump mp is a huge mistake. Thinking SRMs are useless is another huge mistake.
|
|
#
?
Apr 23, 2011 18:24
|
|
|
The SRM-2 is definitely wasteful in terms of ammo, but it's not a totally stupid thing to have. It generates hardly any heat and has a good crit table. Combined with excellent speed and jump capacity, you can wait till an enemy mech has a few holes in its armor, and then jump into just the right spot to include those gaps in your crit table and fire in the same turn you jumped without overheating too badly. The better design choice is to take a single ton of SRM ammo and then take two or three SRM-2 launchers, or combine the SRM-2 with an SRM6 or something. More efficient in terms of ammo usage and gives you a couple of different options for heat accumulation and crit seeking opportunities. (The best choice, of course, is to get rid of the SRMs entirely and just take a bunch of machine guns, which generate no heat at all. I played a MegaMek game against the AI the other day using one of those Piranha mechs and it was amazing.)
|
|
#
?
Apr 23, 2011 19:00
|
|
|
Longinus00 posted:Going from 7 jump mp to 5 jump mp is a huge mistake. Thinking SRMs are useless is another huge mistake.
|
|
#
?
Apr 23, 2011 19:04
|
|
|
TildeATH posted:SRM-2s could only be more useless if they were mounted on Urbanmechs and what's so terrible about dropping your jump from 7 to 5? SRM-2s are just 1/3rd of a SRM-6. Like all light weight close range weapons, you need to use a lot of them to get a real effect, but if you have a lot of them you can absolutely ruin someone's face in close. And if you drop jump from 7 to 5, you go down from a +4 TMM (+1 jump, +1 3-4 hexes, +1 5-6 hexes, +1 7-9 hexes) to a +3 TMM (+1 jump, +1 3-4 hexes, +1 5-6 hexes). That means you're breaking even rather than making it harder to hit you than your movement is making it harder to hit them. It's a pretty significant loss.
|
|
#
?
Apr 23, 2011 19:51
|
|
|
MJ12 posted:SRM-2s are just 1/3rd of a SRM-6. Like all light weight close range weapons, you need to use a lot of them to get a real effect, but if you have a lot of them you can absolutely ruin someone's face in close. Would you consider a mech with 10 SSRM-2 Launchers w/ 10 tons of ammo a good way to ruin someone's face? I personally think of my creation as a walking explosion waiting to happen.
|
|
#
?
Apr 23, 2011 19:55
|
|
|
landcollector posted:Would you consider a mech with 10 SSRM-2 Launchers w/ 10 tons of ammo a good way to ruin someone's face? I personally think of my creation as a walking explosion waiting to happen. Way too much ammunition. Streak SRM-2s get 50 shots a ton and don't miss, so ideally you'd have 1 ton of ammunition per 3-6 Streak-2s, since you will, outside of AMS, be guaranteed to achieve 100 points of damage on an enemy mech per ton of ammunition you carry.
|
|
#
?
Apr 23, 2011 20:05
|
|
|
landcollector posted:Would you consider a mech with 10 SSRM-2 Launchers w/ 10 tons of ammo a good way to ruin someone's face? I personally think of my creation as a walking explosion waiting to happen. You realize you don't need a separate ammo slot for each launcher? 10 Streak-2s need 3 tons of ammo, maybe 4. But sure, if you're homebrewing something, slap a UAC/20 on the other arm, blow big holes in things and then fire SRMs into them. Or if you're playing without pen & paper bookkeeping, make it an LB-20 and see how long it takes to turn the opposing pilot to blood pudding.
|
|
#
?
Apr 23, 2011 20:05
|
|
|
The Merry Marauder posted:You realize you don't need a separate ammo slot for each launcher? 10 Streak-2s need 3 tons of ammo, maybe 4. Yes I do realize you can split up a ton of ammo among multiples of a weapon. I am also aware that the mech I was speaking of is a terrible build.
|
|
#
?
Apr 23, 2011 20:09
|
|
|
MJ12 posted:Way too much ammunition. Streak SRM-2s get 50 shots a ton and don't miss, so ideally you'd have 1 ton of ammunition per 3-6 Streak-2s, since you will, outside of AMS, be guaranteed to achieve 100 points of damage on an enemy mech per ton of ammunition you carry. AMS won't even affect SSRM2s due to how the rules work. So long as you can handle the heat/crit penalty 3xSRM2s are better than 1.5xSRM4s or 1xSRM6s. VVV Don't forget that in level1 SRMs are the best critseakers. Longinus00 fucked around with this message at 20:17 on Apr 23, 2011 |
|
#
?
Apr 23, 2011 20:13
|
|
|
landcollector posted:Yes I do realize you can split up a ton of ammo among multiples of a weapon. I am also aware that the mech I was speaking of is a terrible build. Your hilarious joke was quite lost on me, alas. Eight billion SRM launchers isn't a bad build at all, as the Vulture/Copperhead showed in the Clan fight, especially with something else that deals big damage chunks or lots of clusters. Hell, 10 Streak-2s, even overammoed, is a better build than a lot of stock designs, assuming CASE. You're going to kill the poo poo out of enemy pilots.
|
|
#
?
Apr 23, 2011 20:15
|
|
|
The Merry Marauder posted:Your hilarious joke was quite lost on me, alas. A better version of the design (it's 55 tons) only has 4 tons of ammo and has MASC, Angel ECM, Bloodhound Active Probe, 3 ER Medium Lasers, and 9 tons of armor (The terrible version only had a pathetic 4 tons). After seeing Dusk rip apart Caesar's Atlas using a charge, I try to fit MASC in a design whenever I can. v v v Wow, harsh aren't you? Look, I know some of my design choices may turn out to be bad ideas. What is the harm in playing around? Lighten up. landcollector fucked around with this message at 20:35 on Apr 23, 2011 |
|
#
?
Apr 23, 2011 20:22
|
|
|
landcollector posted:A better version of the design only has 4 tons of ammo and has MASC, Angel ECM, Bloodhound Active Probe, 3 ER Medium Lasers, and 9 tons of armor (The terrible version only had a pathetic 4 tons). After seeing Dusk rip apart Caesar's Atlas using a charge, I try to fit MASC in a design whenever I can. Before you go around trying to make "good" mech designs it might help to actually play some battletech first. ^^^ I didn't mean it as an attack. I'm just saying that without actually knowing how things work together you're going to have a hard time knowing what actually constitutes a "good" design. It's like trying to plan out a fallout character without knowing how the skills work or how useful they are (protip, get repair). Longinus00 fucked around with this message at 20:40 on Apr 23, 2011 |
|
#
?
Apr 23, 2011 20:24
|
|
|
I'm on deck, but I'll be gone for this evening. (and I'm hoping one of the other two pick it up since I'd rather play comguard  )
|
|
#
?
Apr 23, 2011 20:31
|
|
|
Longinus00 posted:Thinking SRMs are useless is another huge mistake. Oh, SRMs are great, don't get me wrong. A single SRM-2, though, will hit with one missile more than half the time, giving it the damage output of a machine gun at 2/3 the heat of a medium laser, and weighing twice as much as either. vvvvv Unless I'm looking at the wrong table, it takes an 8 or better to get both missiles to hit. Mary Annette fucked around with this message at 20:54 on Apr 23, 2011 |
|
#
?
Apr 23, 2011 20:37
|
|
|
Mary Annette posted:Oh, SRMs are great, don't get me wrong. A single SRM-2, though, will hit with one missile more than half the time, giving it the damage output of a machine gun at 2/3 the heat of a medium laser, and weighing twice as much as either. Longinus00 fucked around with this message at 20:57 on Apr 23, 2011 |
|
#
?
Apr 23, 2011 20:47
|
|
|
Cafel please confirm you have your platinum  it said so at least
|
|
#
?
Apr 23, 2011 21:59
|
|
|
Longinus00 posted:
I'm not a BT expert or anything but I'd much rather have a medium laser (or even 2 small lasers) instead of an SRM-2. It seems like unless you have a bunch of them, it's little more than an annoyance. With a medium laser you're pumping out more than double the damage for only 1 more heat, and with 2 small lasers you're putting out the same heat for triple the damage up close.
|
|
#
?
Apr 23, 2011 22:01
|
|
|
The Casualty posted:I'm not a BT expert or anything but I'd much rather have a medium laser (or even 2 small lasers) instead of an SRM-2. It seems like unless you have a bunch of them, it's little more than an annoyance. With a medium laser you're pumping out more than double the damage for only 1 more heat, and with 2 small lasers you're putting out the same heat for triple the damage up close. Damage is irrelevant when it comes to crit seeking though. Once that armor comes off landing two hits if better than one, and landing cluster hits makes slipping a shot into that hole much more likely.
|
|
#
?
Apr 23, 2011 22:23
|
|
|
Can you explain how the cluster hit table works?
|
|
#
?
Apr 23, 2011 22:26
|
|
|
The Casualty posted:Can you explain how the cluster hit table works? I think explaining that might violate Rule Omega...I'm not sure. For reference: Poptarts posted:Rule Omega:
|
|
#
?
Apr 23, 2011 22:34
|
|
|
landcollector posted:I think explaining that might violate Rule Omega...I'm not sure. If you can find a link to such a table, that would probably prove a sufficient explanation while falling within these rules.
|
|
#
?
Apr 23, 2011 22:40
|
|
|
Yeah, we have been pretty much playing it by ear, but I would interpret that as being "Do not post the entire cluster hits table" and less like this: Every time you hit with a weapon (like an LRM, SRM, etc) that uses the cluster hits table, you roll 2d6 separately to determine how many shots out of the possible actually hit. So, if you fire an LRM-20, you will not get all 20 missiles to hit unless you roll really well on the cluster hits table; most of the time you will get around half to two thirds of your shots to connect. It is just a separate roll that determines how hard you hit. EDIT: It is actually in part in the freely available introductory rulebook here so it is actually probably OK to discuss. So if you go there and look at the cluster hits table, on page 27. Let us say you fire an LRM-15 and get a hit. You roll another 2d6 to see how many shots hit and you get an 8; that would be 9 missiles hitting. Mukaikubo fucked around with this message at 22:43 on Apr 23, 2011 |
|
#
?
Apr 23, 2011 22:41
|
|
|
landcollector posted:I think explaining that might violate Rule Omega...I'm not sure. I see. I'm not looking for anything extremely detailed, just a layman's explanation of how it works without exact numerical values would suit me fine. I've played some games in MegaMek and it obviously factors into what gets hit under given circumstances, but I have no clue why or how. edit: Thanks, Muk.
|
|
#
?
Apr 23, 2011 22:41
|
|
|
You could probably explain cluster hit table in general terms without causing any problems from PTN. I mean, people already know it exists, and it's been used previously in the LP. I don't think it's metagaming to explain the jist of why SRMs are "crit-seekers". But, just in case: Missiles hit in a spread with each missile (SRMs) or cluster of 5 missiles (LRMs) having a chance to hit a different area on the opposing mech. This means that once you've taken the armor off one or more areas of an opposing mech, missiles are much more likely to get a critical hit in one salvo than an energy or (some) ballistic based weaponry.
|
|
#
?
Apr 23, 2011 22:44
|
|
|
The Introductory Rulebook is freely available from classicbattletech.com and is pretty much everything you'll need in order to know what you're doing as a player. EDIT: I got beaten by one minute.
|
|
#
?
Apr 23, 2011 22:44
|
|
|
I figured it better to err on the side of caution until I was told otherwise...
|
|
#
?
Apr 23, 2011 22:48
|
|
|
Yeah the key point with missiles is that a "hit" means some number of missiles hit (but usually not all of them): and then also that those missiles are spread across one or more locations. The more missiles that hit, the better your chances of hitting more locations. Since any hit on a section with the armor gone causes a "crit chance", this is actually a big reason why missiles are good. The secondary reason is less heat per shot. The main drawbacks are the need to carry ammo, and the explosiveness of that ammo. Battletech is actually really well designed (strictly from a mechanical perspective) because most options have at least one benefit that you might reasonably want, even if it also has drawbacks that make it worse than some other option in many circumstances. The need to balance heat, damage output, damage spread, weight, and crit locations for every weapon (and weapons vs. armor and engine capacity and jump jets and heat sinks when doing overall design) ensures a large range of mech designs with no single design being the "best" under every possible circumstance. So what I'm getting at is, an SRM-2 is a poor choice under a lot of circumstances. But there are certain circumstances where it offers a benefit that shouldn't be totally discounted. This is generally true to varying degrees of pretty much every weapon option.
|
|
#
?
Apr 23, 2011 23:26
|
|
|
So for the benefit of some of us who aren't so entirely well versed in battletech, who are LOKI? I take it they're not just Lyran state security or something.
|
|
#
?
Apr 24, 2011 01:00
|
|
|
Teledahn posted:So for the benefit of some of us who aren't so entirely well versed in battletech, who are LOKI? I take it they're not just Lyran state security or something. Loki (named after the Nordic god of lies) essentially is a state-sponsored terrorist unit. Their task is not only to assassinate and sabotage enemies of the state, but also to strike fear into the hearts of the foreign enemies of the Lyran Commonwealth. The over-the-top brutality of Loki-agents is infamous throughout the whole Inner Sphere Here is some info about the group we are a part of in this scenario, Heimdall: Heimdall is an unofficial department and in some ways a internal affairs safety valve. Formed by LIC-agents who considered themselves patriotic Lyrans. Unwilling to accept the massive collateral damage that often resulted from Loki-operations they sabotage those that they deemed to be going to far. They are the "watchdog" of the Lyran peoples. The interesting part is that both groups are part of the Lyran Intelligence Corps (LIC). v v v The info was taken direct from the wiki. It seems like a lot of people are timing out, doesn't it? landcollector fucked around with this message at 01:35 on Apr 24, 2011 |
|
#
?
Apr 24, 2011 01:20
|
|
|
Wargames has now officially 'timed out', Capskye is up in the Assassin!landcollector posted:Loki (named after the Nordic god of lies) essentially is a state-sponsored terrorist unit. Their task is not only to assassinate and sabotage enemies of the state, but also to strike fear into the hearts of Fixed that for you, they don't do a lot of external terrorism, although they do some on occasion. More often, they're state-sponsored terrorists who's goal is, explicitly, the murder (or mass-murder) of Lyran civillians. PoptartsNinja fucked around with this message at 01:30 on Apr 24, 2011 |
|
#
?
Apr 24, 2011 01:27
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 10, 2024 20:03 |
|
|
The impression that I get - and I'd really like it if someone better-versed in the canon can come in and tell me where I'm full of crap here - is that LOKI is essentially the CIA in the 1960s with even less oversight. They do all kinds of horrific and monstrous crap 'for the good of the Lyran Commonwealth,' and they're a conspiracy nut's wet dream. You know those dudes who think the CIA set off earthquakes and sponsored terrorist cells in the US and introduced crack to the ghetto and poo poo like that? Yeah. If they were talking about LOKI they'd be right. Heimdall, conversely, is kind of like Nixon's 'Plumbers' only less evil because Nixon isn't involved. They're a strictly unofficial group that still ends up kinda being an arm of Lyran Intelligence - actually, you know what they're like, they're like the Campus in the newest Tom Clancy books (and here's where I mourn the braincells I lost reading those books. I remember when you were good, Tom!). On paper, they're a rogue group acting entirely outside the law, but they serve to counteract the worst excesses of LOKI and some of history's more tyrannical Archons, ending government corruption through the time-honored method of shooting it in the face with giant robots. It's easy to think of Heimdall as 'the good guys' if you're willing to forget that they're completely outside the law and the government and are really answerable to no one. They're terrorists with hearts of gold, in essence. So really no one gets to be the good guys here, which is pretty apropos for Battletech.
|
|
#
?
Apr 24, 2011 01:33
|
|
