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ShadowDragon8685 posted:If myomer was a better armor than actual armor, wouldn't they just wrap the 'mechs in bundles of myomer? Never said it was better than armor. It just keeps operating with *some* damage rather than getting gummed up, is my point. It's an internally consistent fluff that works for me.
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Apr 25, 2011 16:30
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Mary Annette posted:Why don't they make the plane out of the black box? In humanity's grimdark future, only a hyper-aggressive, ritualized warrior society and a shadowy religious power have access to the color black.
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Apr 25, 2011 16:42
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TildeATH posted:In humanity's grimdark future, only a hyper-aggressive, ritualized warrior society and a shadowy religious power have access to the color black. But black boxes are the things that makes Hanse Davion's intelligence agency so awesome. I am so confused now. Why would you put one of those on an aerospace plane, it might get captured. 
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Apr 25, 2011 16:45
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TildeATH posted:In humanity's grimdark future, only a hyper-aggressive, ritualized warrior society and a shadowy religious power have access to the color black. In 3025, the great houses only have access to fuscia boxes. Frequently destroyed on impact, the information stored in them is also often frustratingly incomplete. Volmarias fucked around with this message at 16:57 on Apr 25, 2011 |
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Apr 25, 2011 16:54
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Mary Annette posted:Why don't they make the plane out of the black box? False analogy. The flight data recorders are a recorder that has been as ruggedized as possible, in a small box that's as durable as humanly possible. It still won't survive any serious impact in working condition, but that's not its purpose. It's purpose is to survive the impact intact enough to still contain the cockpit data and voice recorder. There's a couple of good reasons you can't make the whole plane as durable as the black box's shell. The primary of these is weight. The square-cube law means that if you tried to make the entire airplane shell as durable as that one tiny box, the thing would be unable to lift off, and likely unable to even move. Secondly, even if the plane is made out of unobtanium that's as strong as the black box recorder and as light as the plane normally is, the crew and passengers within are not. Even if you make the plane out of some outright magical material that completely resists deformation even under the worst impact, it would be pointless, since everyone inside is still going to be pulped upon impact. To actually have all the passengers and crew survive a nosedive, your vehicle will need an unobtanium shell and advanced gravitic controls to perfectly accelerate every molecule of their bodies in direct opposition to the acceleration of the impact, negating the felt impact and leaving them alive. Whereas 'mechs already contain mammoth amounts of myomer, so much so that I find it unlikely that replacing the armor mass with more myomer mass would overweight the 'mech. Additionally, the point I was making was that a 'mech's joints - particularly the knee and hip and foot actuators - should be more or less impossible to actually protect with the 'mech's armor shell, the exact same reasoning why a shot to a tank that doesn't penetrate the armor can still inflict motive system damage.
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Apr 25, 2011 17:42
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ShadowDragon8685 posted:False analogy. The flight data recorders are a recorder that has been as ruggedized as possible, in a small box that's as durable as humanly possible. It still won't survive any serious impact in working condition, but that's not its purpose. It's purpose is to survive the impact intact enough to still contain the cockpit data and voice recorder. I'm always amazed by how many sarcastic comments go over the heads of people posting on a forum about internet comedy.
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Apr 25, 2011 17:49
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Volmarias posted:I'm always amazed by how many sarcastic comments go over the heads of people posting on a forum about internet comedy. I just hate it when people say "why don't they make the plane out of the stuff they make the black box out of." >_<
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Apr 25, 2011 17:52
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ShadowDragon8685 posted:I just hate it when people say "why don't they make the plane out of the stuff they make the black box out of." >_< Why don't we just make the mechs out of diamond 
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Apr 25, 2011 18:00
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GhostStalker posted:I remember reading about this and how it's evidence that the BattleTech construction rules literally nerf tanks and other vehicles so that Mechs remain king of the battlefield. Something about how Internal Combustion Engines/Fusion reactors take up so much drat weight on tanks that you can't fit enough armor onto it or something like that. Engines weighing significant fractions of vehicle weight compared to modern engines that move modern tanks with similar mass at the same speeds that the BT tanks do. That's because ICE engines don't come with any free heat sinks, mass twice as much as fusion engines (~150% as much on a vehicle), and require power amplifiers to power energy weaponry. If you traded out the Medium Lasers for, say, SRM 4s, the Ontos would have far, far more mass available for armor. And yes, there are a lot of Battletech "fans" who sperge endlessly about how tanks aren't realistically good and how Battletech is unrealistic and who should be told to shut the gently caress up.
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Apr 25, 2011 18:01
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Volmarias posted:Why don't we just make the mechs out of diamond The first laser hit would be a fantastic light show. Unless it just sets it on fire.
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Apr 25, 2011 18:05
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MJ12 posted:That's because ICE engines don't come with any free heat sinks, mass twice as much as fusion engines (~150% as much on a vehicle), and require power amplifiers to power energy weaponry. If you traded out the Medium Lasers for, say, SRM 4s, the Ontos would have far, far more mass available for armor. Lets discuss our Michael Bay circlejerk fantasies again where the inner sphere attempts to invade earth and our valiant military fights them off
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Apr 25, 2011 18:05
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I submit that all Poptartverse 'Mechs be built of pure sperg.
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Apr 25, 2011 18:30
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Ok, all the vague hinting in this thread now gives me an idea of who these people are, and why they're fighting. I still don't get IS politics, but for the immediate scenario at hand, I have a few things that I'm paying attention to: -Why bother immitating Clan voice/logos for the mechs? Is this a scapegoat thing, or are the aggressors trying to rile up anger against the clans? I'm basically sure it's the former, but the latter is still on the table until I see solid proof otherwise. -What are they drawing attention from? Obviously there is something else going on here, but whoever's attention they attract has to be someone that a) cares about statues, parks, and peace as well as b) is not mobile enough to immediately turn around and deal with the real threat. -Who are they protecting? Yeah, I've seen some theories bandied about, but it's also possible that the limo is a fake VIP meant to look important, who if exposed will give away the plan. This is again unlikely, but until the story is blown wide open, it's hard to say we actually know anything. I don't really know Lyran politics, so I'm not going to make/hedge bets on any of these.
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Apr 25, 2011 18:43
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I think it's more like a Boston Tea Party kind of thing- they know their disguise isn't going to seriously fool anyone, but it gives them a veneer of deniability.
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Apr 25, 2011 18:59
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To be honest, I am rooting for a good old fashioned Marik-style civil war breaking out in the middle of the clan invasion. 
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Apr 25, 2011 19:09
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Mukaikubo posted:To be honest, I am rooting for a good old fashioned Marik-style civil war breaking out in the middle of the clan invasion. Aren't we all? Just patched the mechwarrior 2 version I'm using. It's going better, and doesn't crash as frequently. But I managed to lock up my virtual pc just now The game is fun but very unwieldy. Not sure if that's to do with me not using a joystick or just not kitting myself out right. Speaking of which, seems the best strategy for me so far isn't to get myself the best mech, but to get a bunch of cheap helpers in equally dinky mechs to help even out the amount of damage I eventually take. And since the enemy AI is really weak, any distraction means you essentially turn invincible for a short while as they spaz out trying to hit your friends.
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Apr 25, 2011 19:38
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MJ12 posted:That's because ICE engines don't come with any free heat sinks, mass twice as much as fusion engines (~150% as much on a vehicle), and require power amplifiers to power energy weaponry. Yeah, I got that much. The free heat sinks, extra mass, and lack of power are all good reasons to use fusion engines. The problem isn't that, it's the fact that both types of engines mass entirely way too much on a tank for what an engine should logically weigh to move a tank at a specific speed. And I did say that I was unfamiliar with BattleTech construction rules, and that my first real introduction to them was a board where the posters were fluffing a Tom Clancy's Ryan-verse vs Succession Wars level Inner Sphere setting, so all that sperging rubbed off on me. It was my initial introduction to the setting, and having this thread come around after it, with people here talking about this as well, has colored my perceptions of BattleTech. I will apologize for once again leading the discussion this way... BTW, on that same forum, there's also a user there who goes by MJ12 Commando who holds the same general views on sperging about BT that you do, MJ12. Would you two happen to be the same person? Volmarias posted:Why don't we just make the mechs out of diamond Because everyone knows that diamond is one of the hardest metals (if not the hardest metal) known the man.  Volmarias posted:Lets discuss our Michael Bay circlejerk fantasies again where the inner sphere attempts to invade earth and our valiant military fights them off We could, but I'm assuming that would violate PTN's Sperg Alert: Red rule. Oh well. GhostStalker fucked around with this message at 19:53 on Apr 25, 2011 |
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Apr 25, 2011 19:50
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Mukaikubo posted:To be honest, I am rooting for a good old fashioned Marik-style civil war breaking out in the middle of the clan invasion. "NEIN DU!"
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Apr 25, 2011 20:17
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GhostStalker posted:Yeah, I got that much. The free heat sinks, extra mass, and lack of power are all good reasons to use fusion engines. The problem isn't that, it's the fact that both types of engines mass entirely way too much on a tank for what an engine should logically weigh to move a tank at a specific speed. It's one of the weird quirks of Battletech that armor is too light and engines are too heavy, relatively speaking. I just shrug my shoulders all the time when it comes up. When they tried to create more "realistic" construction rules you got the support vehicle/warship rules, which are an extra large pain in the rear end to do without a program, because you have to deal with percentages and whatnot. quote:And I did say that I was unfamiliar with BattleTech construction rules, and that my first real introduction to them was a board where the posters were fluffing a Tom Clancy's Ryan-verse vs Succession Wars level Inner Sphere setting, so all that sperging rubbed off on me. It was my initial introduction to the setting, and having this thread come around after it, with people here talking about this as well, has colored my perceptions of BattleTech. I will apologize for once again leading the discussion this way... Oh god you've found me out now what will I do?  Yeah, I'm him, if the identical avatar hasn't tipped you off.
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Apr 25, 2011 20:17
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ShadowDragon8685 posted:If myomer was a better armor than actual armor, wouldn't they just wrap the 'mechs in bundles of myomer? Because while myomer may be better at absorbing damage than a similar weight of armor, it does nothing to stop criticals. Alternate reason: It's too goddamn bulky.
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Apr 25, 2011 20:21
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raverrn posted:Because while myomer may be better at absorbing damage than a similar weight of armor, it does nothing to stop criticals. Real reason: Because nobody wants all their Battlemechs looking like flayed gorillas. This is what happens when you use myomer as armor on infantrymen... 
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Apr 25, 2011 20:25
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GhostStalker posted:Because everyone knows that diamond is one of the hardest metals (if not the hardest metal) known the man. Fine. Make me a mech of solid gold.
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Apr 25, 2011 20:25
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Volmarias posted:Fine. Make me a mech of solid gold. On this episode of Pimp My Mech...
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Apr 25, 2011 21:22
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landcollector posted:On this episode of Pimp My Mech... Also, spinners for my ACs. The barrel runs dry but it keeps on spinnin
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Apr 25, 2011 21:35
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MJ12 posted:Oh god you've found me out now what will I do? Huh, I thought it was you but wasn't sure. Might as well have asked. Guess you're pretty much done with that RR, aren't you? I only lurk that part of the forum, but I haven't seen you around on it after you blew up a couple times on a lot of the writers and other posters who were sperging about BT vs Tom Clancy a few months back.
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Apr 25, 2011 21:39
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Mukaikubo posted:But black boxes are the things that makes Hanse Davion's intelligence agency so awesome. I am so confused now. Why would you put one of those on an aerospace plane, it might get captured. Did how those work ever get explained, or did I Miss that?
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Apr 25, 2011 21:47
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WarLocke posted:Did how those work ever get explained, or did I Miss that? Magical space faxes that don't need phone lines.
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Apr 25, 2011 21:53
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WarLocke posted:Did how those work ever get explained, or did I Miss that? No. Sarna.net doesn't even have a working link for them.
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Apr 25, 2011 21:56
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Diogenes Cynicus posted:Magical space faxes that don't need phone lines. So like, HPGs, but better? Then the FedCom should still have had comms after the bullshit Dark Age HPG shutdown, no? Continuity 
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Apr 25, 2011 21:56
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WarLocke posted:Did how those work ever get explained, or did I Miss that? From what I remember from my gleaned BT knowledge, a black box is basically a fax machine that can transmit lightyears of distance without using HPG technology, so the Feddies can get around using ComStar and survive an interdiction. Sure, C* might be suspicious when a lower amount of important HPG traffic goes through Davion space or an interdiction doesn't seem to hurt them as much, but, as far as my limited knowledge goes, they're unaware that the Black Boxes exist or that Davion has a number of them recovered from a Star League cache. landcollector posted:On this episode of Pimp My Mech... Sup dawg, I heard you like guns, so we put some extra ammo in your torso so you can ammo explosion while you Stackpole.  Yeah, I'm not really all that good at this... Maybe if I knew more about BT...
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Apr 25, 2011 21:57
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GhostStalker posted:From what I remember from my gleaned BT knowledge, a black box is basically a fax machine that can transmit lightyears of distance without using HPG technology, so ComStar doesn't get suspicious. Sure, they might be suspicious when a lower amount of important HPG traffic goes through Davion space, but, as far as my limited knowledge goes, they're unaware that the Black Boxes exist or that Davion has a number of them recovered from a Star League cache. Here's my try (be prepared for possible terribleness...): Yo dawg, I heard you like ammo explosions, so I put some ammo in your ammo so you can explode while you explode...
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Apr 25, 2011 22:05
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I remember that the Black Boxes were really slow compared to an HPG, but beats having nothing. Probably not viable over a long duration though.
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Apr 25, 2011 22:08
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HPG's transmit instantaneously, but are range-limited (about 30 LY). Black boxes transmit FTL, but not instantaneously. Entry-level models go around 50 LY, while the last production models in the canon timeline pre-Jihad could exceed 120 LY, I believe.
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Apr 25, 2011 22:13
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Black Boxes are much slower than using the HPG network, but still fast enough for the FedSuns to use them to send sealed orders for the Fourth Succession War against the Space Chinese. IIRC, the Draconis Combine had some of their own following the 3039 war with Davion.
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Apr 25, 2011 22:16
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Pft. Instantaneous spooky action at a distance comms or nothing.
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Apr 25, 2011 22:20
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Volmarias posted:I'm always amazed by how many sarcastic comments go over the heads of people posting on a forum about internet comedy. Actually, it was entirely my fault. Forgot to use the proper tags. Mary Annette posted:[seinfeld]Why don't they make the plane out of the black box?[/seinfeld]
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Apr 25, 2011 22:29
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[seinfeld]And what's up with myomer???[/seinfeld]
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Apr 25, 2011 22:34
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Seems the lockup is some kind of error with a particular level. Don't know if it is VPC related or a problem with my copy, but I'm having to reload a way earlier save . What happens is it will start up the second level of a particular campaign and then bam, instant freeze-up. On a happier note, I've found missiles are apparently the best weapon to put on mechs to take enemies out in a few hits. Ones you don't control that is. Anyway, as for the map, I've found a new kind of respect for the assassin mech after Mechwarrior 2. If only because it somehow manages to absorb a ton of damage when I fight against it.
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Apr 25, 2011 22:34
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WarLocke posted:So like, HPGs, but better? I'm pretty sure only the Republic Of The Sphere suffered the catastrophic HPG failure, the successor states were unaffected. That's why so many of them launched attacks against the Republic and why the Republic had to pull everything back to a small, tightly-defended central cluster to accomodate their drastically increased response times.
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Apr 25, 2011 22:59
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Hey guys, I'm trying to build a custom scenario in MegaMek but I'm having a problem finding a particular Mech. I don't remember the name of it, but it's basically an UrbanMech upscaled to a higher weight class. Can anyone tell me what it's called? I saw it on sarna.net a while back.
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Apr 25, 2011 23:49
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