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Momomo posted:I found ZX to be ridiculously hard even on normal mode (partially because the DS is not meant for games like this) and making you walk to stages was the dumbest decision I've ever seen. Advent was much better. Yeah, ZX was going for the Metroidvania feel, but it was pulled off badly, mostly due to the shittacular map system. Still, I would give ALL MY MONEY to Capcom if they could pull off a good Castlevania: Symphony of the Night-style Megaman game. ...god dammit, now I want to play Symphony of the Night again. Screaming Idiot fucked around with this message at 13:12 on Apr 26, 2011 |
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Apr 26, 2011 11:53
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Megaman Zero Collection's easy mode is easily the most fun I've had with a Mega Man Zero game. This is not a derivatory, it's actually extremely fun to plow through the games with maximum abilities at the start of each game and not having to worry about fairies. Zero 2 still require you to kinda use your fairies wisely to get a good grade for EX upgrades, but it's a pain if you don't know how it calculates that poo poo. ^^^^: The map is really MMZX's greatest failing. If you print out an online map that has proper passages and use that instead, it's better than ZXA. Since it was a dumb as gently caress map we got instead, I'm willing to juggle the two.
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Apr 26, 2011 11:55
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Mister Roboto posted:Wait, the DS isn't designed for 2d platformers? How so? Personally I get hand cramps trying to play super intense platformers on the tiny DS, but I'm a freak and this probably isn't what he means. Seriously though I can't play poo poo on the DS which makes me sad.
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Apr 26, 2011 11:55
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Simply Simon posted:BN4's music was poo poo. The only good track I can think of is the boss music, and it's so far better remixed as the theme of the last regular dungeons in BN5 (the Dark Chip factory ones), it's not even funny. You thinking of the right theme? This is the boss theme, and this is the Dark Chip factory. Also I would say tracks like http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pZ1twJ2f_5Y http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=700h1gHAMDI Are pretty good. I'd most more, but it's the kind of game where the tracks are vaguely named. In general I wouldn't really say Battle Network music isn't something to write home about anyway. I've got no nostalgia for any other series, but Classic's stage themes seem much more memorable.
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Apr 26, 2011 11:57
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Mordaedil posted:^^^^: The map is really MMZX's greatest failing. If you print out an online map that has proper passages and use that instead, it's better than ZXA. Since it was a dumb as gently caress map we got instead, I'm willing to juggle the two. Oh, definitely. In fact, the MMZX games are some of the best ones in the franchise. If there's anything about it I really have a bone to pick with, it's the art style -- the semi-abstract vaguely animal-shaped bosses are just too dull, and the humanoid characters look too goofy and/or creepily childish. I can't play MMZ and MMZX without feeling like a pedophile, especially since I had the misfortune of seeing some of the head artist's other work. 
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Apr 26, 2011 12:00
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Screaming Idiot posted:Oh, definitely. In fact, the MMZX games are some of the best ones in the franchise. Definitely agree. Anyone who likes Megaman probably has a decent tolerance for anime cheesiness, but the art style just went way too far into looking like deformed children muppets doing everything.
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Apr 26, 2011 12:03
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Momomo posted:You thinking of the right theme? This is the boss theme, and this is the Dark Chip factory. Just listen for the part where the BN4 track gets actually interesting and fast (1:28 in my video), and where the BN5 track picks up (0:18); you can also hear it here at the very beginning. Interesting...can you call it leitmotif? Also, the Nebula Grey battle from the game is loving amazing, just because I've got it here. EDIT: Ah, I listened to the two you linked. The first seems to have the problem most of 4's music has, it has this kinda cool buildup-like beginning, with drums 'n poo poo, and...never goes anywhere. Like the boss theme, give me a loving climax please. The second is a remix from the hero themes of the games before, and inferior in my opinion. Though I totally respect if you like the music, that's all just personal taste talking. Simply Simon fucked around with this message at 12:19 on Apr 26, 2011 |
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Apr 26, 2011 12:15
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Another good thing about the Battle Network series: It gave us the coolest version of Zero ever.
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Apr 26, 2011 12:22
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Simply Simon posted:Just listen for the part where the BN4 track gets actually interesting and fast (1:28 in my video), and where the BN5 track picks up (0:18); you can also hear it here at the very beginning. Interesting...can you call it leitmotif? That part comes from the title screen, so it's almost like a remix of a remix  The latter is better though, even if it's another context.quote:Also, the Nebula Grey battle from the game is loving amazing, just because I've got it here. It's a shame the boss is... well, really bad. The end of that game was remarkably underwhelming. edit: Also we already have the best version of Zero:  That Zero virus can kindly step off.
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Apr 26, 2011 12:23
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Screaming Idiot posted:Another good thing about the Battle Network series: It gave us the coolest version of Zero ever. That is not true at all and you are a horrible person. 
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Apr 26, 2011 12:24
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Simply Simon posted:And MMII on the Game Boy had quite absurdly bad music. Youtube this poo poo, but only if you don't value your ears. I knew someone would mention that. The funny thing is that the composition is actually pretty good, it's just that the tracks are way too complex for the Gameboy's sound hardware. There's a few really good remixes out there: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VET0MJGGDmI https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kkOKMwqqTf4 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wPfl4ZjetjU
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Apr 26, 2011 12:27
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TaurusOxford posted:That is not true at all and you are a horrible person. C'mon, you know it to be true. Zero from MMZ looks like a skinny little boychild in a diaper-thong, the original Zero's pretty awesome but he suffers from looking too "humanlike" to be Wily's intended bringer of the apocalypse, and the less said about the MMZX-style Zero(s) the better. Zero.exe looks badass as hell. Momomo posted:edit: Also we already have the best version of Zero: Protoman.exe was a frigid little pussy. And he was operated by someone named Eugene.
Screaming Idiot fucked around with this message at 12:29 on Apr 26, 2011 |
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Apr 26, 2011 12:27
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Neither of those spinoffs acknowledge the genius of breast-lights anyways, so they are instantly disqualified from being awesome.
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Apr 26, 2011 12:28
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Doc V posted:I knew someone would mention that. The funny thing is that the composition is actually pretty good, it's just that the tracks are way too complex for the Gameboy's sound hardware. There's a few really good remixes out there: a) they decided to completely redo some of the best Mega Man tracks in existance b) listened to what the Game Boy hardware made of their stuff and still put it in About Zero's design...I've played so much of the Zero series that by now, he's what I think of when I see Zero. Don't mind him. Model ZX looks ridiculous, though. And BN Zero just does what every redesign did wrong in my opinion: Emphasize his already stupidly long ponytail EVEN MORE. It's a loving cape there. A YELLOW cape on a red body. I'm sorry, I never really took you seriously, but that's just taking the cake. Rest is quite cool, I really love BN's character designs, but no. Not the hair.
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Apr 26, 2011 12:35
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Screaming Idiot posted:Another good thing about the Battle Network series: It gave us the coolest version of Zero ever. Finally, someone else who sees the goddamn light! I thought my girlfriend and I were the only sane people on the planet in this respect. ...Also, thanks for the picture.
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Apr 26, 2011 12:35
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Screaming Idiot posted:the original Zero's pretty awesome but he suffers from looking too "humanlike" to be Wily's intended bringer of the apocalypse You're forgetting that this is the same Wily who made one of his robots weak to his own weapon, made another one run so fast he would run into walls cause his eyes couldn't keep up, and made one that could barely swim, let alone walk.
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Apr 26, 2011 12:36
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Battle Network is a little out of depth for me, since I only gave the first one a try and didn't like how it played some references brilliantly, and missed others and kinda made the already established relationships more uncertain. Also, the card-based combat wore me off. There are better ways of doing combat imho.
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Apr 26, 2011 12:39
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TaurusOxford posted:You're forgetting that this is the same Wily who made I guess Wily just has this tick that everything has to have a critical fault. Like Otacon. For Robot Masters, it's usually a weakness or something really stupid like you mentioned. For Zero, it's boob lights because for once, he wanted something that actually worked, cosmetics be damned. Maybe, though, it was also a critical weakness to homoerotic love, as this is usually the only thing stopping Zero from destroying the world. Don't know how else you can explain X using his "Soul Body" to stop him in X5, for example  .
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Apr 26, 2011 12:40
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Simply Simon posted:About Zero's design...I've played so much of the Zero series that by now, he's what I think of when I see Zero. Don't mind him. Model ZX looks ridiculous, though. And BN Zero just does what every redesign did wrong in my opinion: Emphasize his already stupidly long ponytail EVEN MORE. It's a loving cape there. A YELLOW cape on a red body. I'm sorry, I never really took you seriously, but that's just taking the cake. Rest is quite cool, I really love BN's character designs, but no. Not the hair. I think a bigger problem is why he looks like some kind of monster now. Isn't the whole point of Zero that he was the first reploid, and is closer to a human?
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Apr 26, 2011 12:41
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Momomo posted:I think a bigger problem is why he looks like some kind of monster now. Isn't the whole point of Zero that he was the first reploid, and is closer to a human? This doesn't really apply in MMBN, so the change is valid in that context.
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Apr 26, 2011 12:43
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Momomo posted:I think a bigger problem is why he looks like some kind of monster now. Isn't the whole point of Zero that he was the first reploid, and is closer to a human? Arguably, most of the bosses from the MMX series were regular reploids before turning Maverick, so this means human-like features weren't high on the priority list for any models.
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Apr 26, 2011 12:44
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That's not arguable, that's a definite. Though it should be amended to "military issue Reploids". It's kind of obvious Reploids were made to serve functions like the Robot Masters. "The Day of Sigma" shows plenty of civilian, humanoid Reploids. Probably manual labor guys.
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Apr 26, 2011 12:45
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Momomo posted:I think a bigger problem is why he looks like some kind of monster now. Isn't the whole point of Zero that he was the first reploid, and is closer to a human? Reploid is a term coined by Dr. Cain. It's short for "replicant android", as all reploids of the time were based on X's schematics. In any case, Zero was created to be a berserk murdermachine that was also meant to spread a heinously-powerful computer virus that -- based on clues (read: rampant speculation) from MM8 and MM10 -- was based on the extraterrestrial "evil energy" and "roboenza". That's why I prefer his MMBN look more -- he actually looks like a harbinger of doom.
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Apr 26, 2011 12:48
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Tallgeese posted:This doesn't really apply in MMBN, so the change is valid in that context. Yeah, but that change was for the worse, since this guy doesn't really make me think of Zero anymore. Protoman was essentially Zero with a different name. edit: Also I don't know much at all about Classic or X's timeline, as I don't like the games very much. I was just going on what I barely know.
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Apr 26, 2011 12:49
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Screaming Idiot: That's not rampant speculation. MM Zero Collection background materials all but confirm that the Virus was basically Roboenza 2.0. The joys of retcon.
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Apr 26, 2011 12:49
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Tallgeese posted:Screaming Idiot: That's not rampant speculation. MM Zero Collection background materials all but confirm that the Virus was basically Roboenza 2.0. The joys of retcon. I play WoW: Retcons are no stranger to me.  Of course, this doesn't seem like a retcon so much as it is a revelation -- remember that the classic games had very few ties to MMX, previously limited to one of Bass' endings in one of the arcade games. I consider it one of MM10's greatest redeeming qualities that it tried to tie a loose end or two to the X series without being too overt.
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Apr 26, 2011 12:53
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Screaming Idiot posted:I play WoW: Retcons are no stranger to me. Hmm, you think that 10's story was intended to link to X? I didn't get that impression at all, I thought it did the opposite and was intended as a standalone, especially Wily's peaceful escape. I mean, X4 and 5 made it pretty clear that Wily made Zero, then the Day of Sigma made it clear that Zero was a carrier for the Wily Virus all along. That seemed to sum up Zero's existence pretty succinctly.
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Apr 26, 2011 12:59
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Screaming Idiot posted:I consider it one of MM10's greatest redeeming qualities that it tried to tie a loose end or two to the X series without being too overt. I really don't think it tried to, and more that MM Zero Collection's background material basically said it did.
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Apr 26, 2011 13:03
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Tallgeese posted:I really don't think it tried to, and more that MM Zero Collection's background material basically said it did. Well, it wouldn't be an extreme stretch to assume it did, considering that Roboenza acts like the Maverick virus minus the glowing purple skulls.
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Apr 26, 2011 13:11
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Mister Roboto posted:the Day of Sigma made it clear that Zero was a carrier for the Wily Virus all along. That seemed to sum up Zero's existence pretty succinctly. The problem with this logic is that the Maverick Hunter X sourcebook rewrites what the Virus is entirely. Now it's basically a trigger that presents a moral dilemma to a Reploid, which makes them go insane since they were not given X's all-important Suffering Circuit, This Circuit more-or-less magically allows X to process ambiguous stuff. In truth, MHX should be thrown out when discussing the overall X series, since it is a separate continuity. What with Cain being most likely dead after the first game and all. I make this error myself. --- Screaming Idiot: Point granted. If I remember correctly, what the materials said is that Roboenza was forgotten, then it showed up again as the Maverick Virus. Kind of like how if we were to stop immunizing, we'd be hit by polio again. Tallgeese fucked around with this message at 13:16 on Apr 26, 2011 |
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Apr 26, 2011 13:14
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Does this mean Mega Man 11 will be Zero killing everyone? Or is that just because I've read too much Bob and George back in the day?
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Apr 26, 2011 13:16
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Well, I don't think they stopped immunizing against Roboenza, I think Wily just beefed it up with replicated computer-distilled  energy.It could also go a long way explaining why X was such a significant find -- perhaps the whole deal with Wily's viruses got so bad that high-functioning robots were banned and eventually forgotten, so when X was discovered they became a big deal once again.
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Apr 26, 2011 13:17
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Mordaedil: Too much Bob and George. There was never even a hint that Zero ever went on any sort of psychotic rampage. Screaming Idiot: That was just an example. I cannot remember exactly what was said, the thing is is that I'm really not sure that it said Wily beefed it up in any way. It could entirely be that the Virus is literally Roboenza, full stop, and it just hit Reploids since they don't have the cure anymore. I just do not remember.
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Apr 26, 2011 13:20
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Oh, it's possible that the Maverick virus is just Roboenza. Either way, I'm getting too pedantic about it - we're putting more thought into the storyline than Inafune ever did. On a completely unrelated note, Vile's weapons are hilariously named. "Popcorn Demon" and "Spoiled Brat" sound a helluva lot better than "Chameleon Sting" and "
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Apr 26, 2011 13:24
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Tallgeese posted:Mordaedil: Too much Bob and George. There was never even a hint that Zero ever went on any sort of psychotic rampage. In the classic universe anyway. I recall the cut-scene from MMX4 that Zero looked pretty psycho while fighting Sigma and there was quite a few dead Reploids around the entreance before their fight. Though how much of that is what is a bit more obscure to me.
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Apr 26, 2011 13:24
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Mordaedil posted:Does this mean Mega Man 11 will be Zero killing everyone? Well, if you'd asked that earlier in the year, the answer was No. Inafune flat out said he didn't have Zero kill everyone in the backstory that was only in his head. But since he's gone...maybe Capcom will bring on a new writer who will go there.
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Apr 26, 2011 13:27
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Tallgeese posted:The problem with this logic is that the Maverick Hunter X sourcebook rewrites what the Virus is entirely. Now it's basically a trigger that presents a moral dilemma to a Reploid, which makes them go insane since they were not given X's all-important Suffering Circuit, This Circuit more-or-less magically allows X to process ambiguous stuff. I think you're mixing up your sources here, since I don't remember MHX ever getting a sourcebook and the Suffering Circuit stuff is from Mega Man Zero Official Complete Works (where it was prefaced with "this stuff is from our early story concepts and isn't necessarily canon", which the fanbase convenienently ignored for some reason.)
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Apr 26, 2011 13:32
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Doc V posted:I think you're mixing up your sources here, since I don't remember MHX ever getting a sourcebook and the Suffering Circuit stuff is from Mega Man Zero Official Complete Works (where it was prefaced with "this stuff is from our early story concepts and isn't necessarily canon", which the fanbase convenienently ignored for some reason.) Yeah, the Suffering Circuit idea was in the Artbook, but as a concept reference. No reference was in any game so far...so The Virus remains a product of Wily. These guys here go over it pretty deeply: http://megaman.wikia.com/wiki/Maverick
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Apr 26, 2011 13:39
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Doc V posted:I think you're mixing up your sources here, since I don't remember MHX ever getting a sourcebook and the Suffering Circuit stuff is from Mega Man Zero Official Complete Works (where it was prefaced with "this stuff is from our early story concepts and isn't necessarily canon", which the fanbase convenienently ignored for some reason.) Ah, you are right. I apologize, it has been several years since I've read anything about this stuff. Sources are bound to get a bit mixed up. What happened was that the information came out closest to Maverick Hunter X's release, so my head associated it with that game. I am now remembering it caused a hell of an uproar, hahaha. Oh, a translation of the Japanese MM Zero official site is where I got the Virus = Roboenza bit. It showed up when MM Zero Collection was introduced. Considering the stuff about the "virus that appeared from space" only appeared after MM10 came out, you'd have to reach pretty far to think it is anything but Roboenza. Tallgeese fucked around with this message at 16:54 on Apr 26, 2011 |
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Apr 26, 2011 16:45
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Chinaman7000 posted:Personally I get hand cramps trying to play super intense platformers on the tiny DS, but I'm a freak and this probably isn't what he means. Us gorillahands are supposed to roll with a Fatty DS. 
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