|
ZeeToo posted:Of course, Thog in particular is also Roy's evil opposite; they have more reason than normal to be visually close. Yeah, most of the original Linear Guild were just recolours of their good twins.
|
#
?
Apr 22, 2011 09:23
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 22, 2024 07:04 |
|
|
Right out of left field
|
|
#
?
Apr 28, 2011 00:27
|
|
|
Zz'dtri, drat. Wouldn't have guessed that. Glad to see another original linear guild member return. Would be cool to see the entire roster return, as a matter of fact. The new guys from the ambush in that airship city so long ago never really felt right.
|
|
#
?
Apr 28, 2011 01:16
|
|
|
Mylan posted:Zz'dtri, drat. Wouldn't have guessed that. Glad to see another original linear guild member return. Would be cool to see the entire roster return, as a matter of fact. The new guys from the ambush in that airship city so long ago never really felt right. I'm looking forward to the headless kobold (the one that Belkar used as a hat) returning as some kind of freaky undead.
|
|
#
?
Apr 28, 2011 01:24
|
|
|
And Durkon's bastard child.
|
|
#
?
Apr 28, 2011 01:29
|
|
|
Holy loving callback. Excellent rational, as well.
|
|
#
?
Apr 28, 2011 01:32
|
|
|
Hooooly poo poo, magnificent. And it answers another long-standing question, too.
|
|
#
?
Apr 28, 2011 07:24
|
|
|
I really should have seen that coming, just read the archives a couple weeks ago. But I totally didn't.
|
|
#
?
Apr 28, 2011 07:40
|
|
|
My Lovely Horse posted:Hooooly poo poo, magnificent. And it answers another long-standing question, too. Oh, I assumed that was Girard.
|
|
#
?
Apr 28, 2011 08:10
|
|
|
So, what's in Haley's bag that will save them from this situation?
|
|
#
?
Apr 28, 2011 08:53
|
|
|
So V decides that the best use of her/his turn is to cast fly and get up in melee range with the other wizard instead of something useful like hold person or dispel or even a freaking lightningbolt? Normally I don't care about stuff like that and I know the author has said that the pc's don't always make the most optimal decisions but that's just plain stupid. Even Elan wouldn't do that (well actually he might, because for him being in melee is good since he is a melee fighting person and not a ranged spellcaster). 
|
|
#
?
Apr 28, 2011 09:33
|
|
|
Oh cool, the most boring and pointless character in the comic came back, how exciting
|
|
#
?
Apr 28, 2011 14:34
|
|
|
Mystic Mongol posted:So, what's in Haley's bag that will save them from this situation? Could be anything, as long as it doesn't have an edge. Potions, scrolls, another magic item, whatever.
|
|
#
?
Apr 28, 2011 16:26
|
|
|
Mystic Mongol posted:So, what's in Haley's bag that will save them from this situation? Could be anything, but you have to know what you want out of the bag when you reach in to grab it, otherwise they'll have to dump it out to see. But I would assume Elan would have some idea as to what's in there, V too.
|
|
#
?
Apr 28, 2011 16:30
|
|
|
Looks like she withdrew a potion already. But it's also stone now.
|
|
#
?
Apr 28, 2011 17:44
|
|
|
Poil posted:So V decides that the best use of her/his turn is to cast fly and get up in melee range with the other wizard instead of something useful like hold person or dispel or even a freaking lightningbolt? Normally I don't care about stuff like that and I know the author has said that the pc's don't always make the most optimal decisions but that's just plain stupid. Even Elan wouldn't do that (well actually he might, because for him being in melee is good since he is a melee fighting person and not a ranged spellcaster). V didn't cast fly, he just started flying. I'm assuming he cast Overland Flight on himself this morning like any smart wizard. It looks like he was about to cast something else, and the Drow nailed him in the face with something he had readied.
|
|
#
?
Apr 28, 2011 19:05
|
|
|
Poil posted:So V decides that the best use of her/his turn is to cast fly and get up in melee range with the other wizard instead of something useful like hold person or dispel or even a freaking lightningbolt? Normally I don't care about stuff like that and I know the author has said that the pc's don't always make the most optimal decisions but that's just plain stupid. Even Elan wouldn't do that (well actually he might, because for him being in melee is good since he is a melee fighting person and not a ranged spellcaster). If we were thinking about "plain stupid" not hitting V with that Flesh to Stone is much worse.
|
|
#
?
Apr 28, 2011 19:15
|
|
|
He handled V without any issue last time, until the lawyers got involved, I imagine he assumes he can do it again.
|
|
#
?
Apr 28, 2011 20:01
|
|
|
HKR posted:Right out of left field Just read and...  Wonder what that lightning is, though. Cuntellectual fucked around with this message at 22:14 on Apr 28, 2011 |
|
#
?
Apr 28, 2011 22:10
|
|
|
That wizard really was glaring at them the whole time.
|
|
#
?
Apr 28, 2011 22:18
|
|
|
Cabbit posted:V didn't cast fly, he just started flying. I'm assuming he cast Overland Flight on himself this morning like any smart wizard. It looks like he was about to cast something else, and the Drow nailed him in the face with something he had readied. Hypocrisy posted:If we were thinking about "plain stupid" not hitting V with that Flesh to Stone is much worse. 
|
|
#
?
Apr 28, 2011 23:38
|
|
|
Anatharon posted:Just read and... (Greater) Shadow Evocation?
|
|
#
?
Apr 29, 2011 06:10
|
|
|
Hypocrisy posted:If we were thinking about "plain stupid" not hitting V with that Flesh to Stone is much worse. I can't blame a mage for wanting to take out the rogue first. An archery based rogue to boot.
|
|
#
?
Apr 30, 2011 04:40
|
|
|
Kalas posted:I can't blame a mage for wanting to take out the rogue first. Bah, archery poses no threat to any semi competent mage. quote:Wind Wall
|
|
#
?
Apr 30, 2011 09:24
|
|
|
OotS has never at any point ignored the wealth of options Mages have to invalidate absolutely everything in order to give the PCs a fighting chance. Never ever.
|
|
#
?
Apr 30, 2011 15:17
|
|
|
Isn't he a sorcerer? His gimmick appears to be direct damage spells as well, most of which are Reflex to avoid. If that's all the case then Haley really is the biggest combat threat to him present.
|
|
#
?
Apr 30, 2011 17:41
|
|
|
A good Rogue at high level can gently caress up nearly everything. Archery focus or no.
|
|
#
?
Apr 30, 2011 17:52
|
|
|
rotinaj posted:A good Rogue at high level can gently caress up nearly everything. Archery focus or no. A good Rogue at high level can't do jack poo poo, because almost every high-level enemy is immune to sneak attacks, and spells can do everything skills can, only much much better. (This is in 3.5, of course.)
|
|
#
?
Apr 30, 2011 18:19
|
|
|
Poil posted:While the wall must be vertical, you can shape it in any continuous path along the ground that you like. ....not too useful for a flying target at least 10' up. Ashenai posted:A good Rogue at high level can't do jack poo poo, because almost every high-level enemy is immune to sneak attacks, and spells can do everything skills can, only much much better. I didn't seen an Iron/Stone Body type effect. I stopped playing PnP D&D just before 3.5 hit, so I definitely may not know of what may be a simple solution. What I meant is, scrawny mages, especially scrawny elf mages can be one-round dead to a rogue if they get to act first or by surprise. Another mage could also take them out, but it's more of a battle.
|
|
#
?
Apr 30, 2011 18:45
|
|
|
Kalas posted:I didn't seen an Iron/Stone Body type effect. Invisibility, incorporeality, and even partial concealment all make you immune to sneak attacks (and any spellcaster has dozens of ways to grant any of those statuses.) But I was also talking about monsters: so many high-level monster types get sneak attack immunity just as a byproduct of their type, or incidentally, that rogues are just completely crippled in high-level 3.5 D&D. Haley would be pretty much helpless against an invisible enemy. Greater Invisibility is a level 4 spell. Friggin' Blur is level 2, and fucks rogues over almost as completely. Or even a spell like Solid Fog: now she can't move at any decent speed, and everyone has partial or total concealment from her, so no sneak attacks with her bow either. There's a reason Rich makes spellcasters in the OotS world pull their punches and not use most of their really useful spells: I don't think invisibility was ever even used in combat. You're right that a rogue could easily kill a mage in a single round if the mage is unaware and unprepared, though. Ashenai fucked around with this message at 19:58 on Apr 30, 2011 |
|
#
?
Apr 30, 2011 19:48
|
|
|
Ashenai posted:A good Rogue at high level can't do jack poo poo, because almost every high-level enemy is immune to sneak attacks, and spells can do everything skills can, only much much better. Mages tend not to be. In fact, most player-class enemies aren't. Sure, monsters often are, but this dark elf shouldn't be immune to sneak attacks. Thog should be. That's about it.
|
|
#
?
Apr 30, 2011 20:31
|
|
|
Ashenai posted:A good Rogue at high level can't do jack poo poo, because almost every high-level enemy is immune to sneak attacks, and spells can do everything skills can, only much much better. You really don't want to underestimate anyone with who has Bluff, Diplomacy, Disable Device, UMD, 8+Int Skill Points a level, and a whole host of Class Features oriented around loving Up Your poo poo. Given enough time and information, there's every possibility a high level Rogue could kill a high level Wizard. It's just that it's probably not ever going to happen during open combat.
|
|
#
?
Apr 30, 2011 23:26
|
|
|
It reminds me about that line from the World of Darkness thread about how a vampire's going to have a hard time taking on other supernaturals in a fair fight, but if you're a vampire, why on earth would you ever enter a fair fight?
|
|
#
?
Apr 30, 2011 23:35
|
|
|
Cabbit posted:You really don't want to underestimate anyone with who has Bluff, Diplomacy, Disable Device, UMD, 8+Int Skill Points a level, and a whole host of Class Features oriented around loving Up Your poo poo. Given enough time and information, there's every possibility a high level Rogue could kill a high level Wizard. Well, sure, if the wizard is an NPC. But that's not really the crux of the problem if we're discussing it as a problem - it's that people playing wizards who know how to play them completely obsolete people playing rogues.
|
|
#
?
May 1, 2011 00:35
|
|
|
This sounds suspiciously like a Batman versus Superman discussion. 
|
|
#
?
May 1, 2011 01:00
|
|
|
Cabbit posted:You really don't want to underestimate anyone with who has Bluff, Diplomacy, Disable Device, UMD, 8+Int Skill Points a level, and a whole host of Class Features oriented around loving Up Your poo poo. Given enough time and information, there's every possibility a high level Rogue could kill a high level Wizard. Shenanigans! The thief's ability to get along well with others and detected spring-loaded knife traps are not equal in power to the wizard's ability get along well with extra planar creatures and detect anything he wants to. The rogue has a fair amount of out of combat utility, but a wizard has MORE out of combat utility. And the UMD skill just lets a rogue perform as (dun dun dunnn) a weak, unreliable caster! Yet it's widely regarded as the best skill, because being a caster is amazing. Your claim that given enough time and information, a rogue could kill a wizard, is true to an extent--a rogue who a wizard doesn't know exists could have a shot at killing the wizard, as long as that wizard doesn't regularly cast divination spells to warn him about upcoming threats. Might work, but as soon as the wizard catches on to what's going on, it's flesh to stone (or quickened teleport to other side of planet -- or hell, a contingency plane shift to the elemental plane of positive energy). And the rogue could find a way to get past the contingencies, the dominated politicians, the sleepless enchanted tremorsensing familiar, and the fact that the wizard lives in a tower with neither doors nor windows, shaped like a giant penis, because he can. Now flip that. Imagine if a high level wizard decided to kill a high level rogue. What possible precautions can someone with improved tumble take against an unknown aggressor who can kill with a word and can see anything, go anywhere, and do anything in six seconds? There isn't a use rope check high enough.
|
|
#
?
May 1, 2011 02:37
|
|
|
The discussion isn't about a Wizard's ability to assassinate a Rogue, so it's not really relevant. And, really, the fact of the matter is that there are ways to get past each of those obstacles. There are items to counter Divination effects, the Darkstalker feat lets you hide from people with Tremorsense, Sense Motive can discern if the politician you're talking to is an enchanted thrall you should avoid like the plague, and a scroll of Anti-Magic Zone turns a mighty wizard into a commoner with ranks in Knowledge: Arcana. Walking through walls is so trivial Ninja can do it. Obviously, Wizards are more powerful than Rogues. I'm just saying, preparation can beat power. It a very possible thing.
|
|
#
?
May 1, 2011 02:48
|
|
|
Just look how easy Xylon handed V's rear end to itself. sure, part of it was that V didnn't have the combined saving throws of an epic character but V was still using magic as a Cudel, rather than being subtle about it. . . . . BRB, going to read that arc again. Was so loving awesome.
|
|
#
?
May 1, 2011 03:11
|
|
|
Cabbit posted:I'm just saying, preparation can beat power. It a very possible thing. Nilbop posted:This sounds suspiciously like a Batman versus Superman discussion.
|
|
#
?
May 1, 2011 03:12
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 22, 2024 07:04 |
|
|
So, anyway, in the fight that started with one surprise round, Haley would likely do a fairly good job of ruining the Dark Elf's day, unless he, say, happened to use Flesh to Stone on her.
|
|
#
?
May 1, 2011 04:03
|
|