Cinematography thread: No film vs. video talk, dammit

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Flutch: Jun 26, 2008

Made this for my final project in Advanced Media Arts, looking for any feedback at all if you've got seven minutes.

http://vimeo.com/23234438

edit: Crossposting from another message board, here's some context. Excuse the excessive undercase typing, sometimes I do that and just roll with it.

there's a strangely morbid line in our fight song that goes -

i'm a sooner born, i'm a sooner bred
and when i die i'll be sooner dead

it has always struck me as sort of odd, and eventually i thought of the sort of "punny" premise of this video.

my main intention was to consider feelings of alienation or failure that can come along with being an undergraduate in college, as well as my personal frustrations with many aspects of this school in particular. this being so, many of the locations have personal meaning to me or are referencing aspects of the university that i find to be unsettling or flawed. i also simply like the process of walking around with a camera and a tripod and creating something that is quasi-performative and entirely raw, i like the idea of putting myself in front of the camera.

the final shot is a reference to a bit of campus taboo that maintains that no one can graduate once they go underneath the clock tower and look up.

Flutch fucked around with this message at 06:15 on May 4, 2011

# ? May 4, 2011 05:17

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# ? May 17, 2024 19:09

Walnut Crunch: Feb 26, 2003

Flutch posted:

Made this for my final project in Advanced Media Arts, looking for any feedback at all if you've got seven minutes.

http://vimeo.com/23234438

Meh.
-Concept says 'final project of the serious student' all over it.
-long long long
-nice that those spots had some kind of meaning to you, but they mean nothing to an audience.
-Favorite shot was the park one with the guy sunbathing. That was the part where I imagined you took time off from being sooner dead and got yourself some relaxing soonershine and a nice base tan.
-I guess body position was good in frame but overall it took itself wayyyyyyyyy too seriously and didn't deliver.

# ? May 5, 2011 05:57

Dr. Fishopolis: Aug 31, 2004; ROBOT

Flutch posted:

Made this for my final project in Advanced Media Arts, looking for any feedback at all if you've got seven minutes.

http://vimeo.com/23234438

meant absolutely nothing, clearly took next to no effort to put together, was painfully boring to watch. it might have even been interesting in an andy warhol's "haircut" kind of way if not for the pretentious soundtrack.

you clearly don't give a poo poo about your audience or have any interest in making anything entertaining or thought provoking.

# ? May 5, 2011 06:08

exp0n: Oct 17, 2004; roll the tapes

exp0n fucked around with this message at 02:07 on Jan 1, 2014

# ? May 5, 2011 06:24

1st AD: Dec 3, 2004; Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu: sometimes passing just isn't an option.

I feel like this should be mentioned:

http://www.technicolor.com/en/hi/cinema/filmmaking/digital-printer-lights/cinestyle

Technicolor released a new picture style for Canon DSLR's. I haven't tried it with video yet, but it looks a lot like some of the other flat picture styles out there already on the photos I've taken with it.

# ? May 5, 2011 08:16

CaptainViolence: Apr 19, 2006; I'M GONNA GET YOU DUCK

Flutch posted:

To reiterate some of the points and add my own critique/advice:

Everything is way too long: you don't need to hold those shots for a full 15 seconds apiece, especially since they're so static. They need to hold a viewer's interest in order to justify needing that much time.
The editing is vague, for lack of a better term. Is there a deliberate sequence to these? You kinda seem to move from wide to close, but not in a consistent manner, nor in one that makes any kind of sense to me. Think about Eisenstein's montage theory: what does the juxtaposition of these images tell us? As far as I can tell, nothing. Every cut should contribute something to the flow of the piece, not just exist simply to exist.
All of that meaning that you described? That's good, but it does not come across at all in the video on its own. One of the most difficult things about any sort of art is making sure that your meaning comes across to the viewer. Sure, you know those spots are significant, but nobody here does. Find a way to let us know.
Sound design: granted, I didn't listen to it very loud, but from what I heard the sound design is lacking. For a piece like this, your sound design could save it totally: you can use sound to impart meaning or make the shots interesting. More than anything, sound is what separates professionals from amateurs, and that's because viewers are unconsciously a lot more forgiving of bad images than bad sound.
Your compositions don't sit well with me, for the most part. It seems like you follow the rule of thirds and whatnot, but except for maybe a couple shots the composition is boring. I also would have at least liked to see some more contrast, but I'm one of those film students that just loves to crunch the blacks, so take that with a grain of salt.
What in the hell is up with that last shot? This may be a personal pet peeve of mine, but really bad handheld is just made that much worse when you throw it in after a bunch of stuff on sticks. Just doing a tilt up from the face to the underside of the clock tower with a tripod would have made that work so much better.

You say Advanced Media Arts like it was a single class (possibly high school level?) so I didn't judge as harshly as maybe others did and I thought I'd take some time to give you that feedback. Hopefully this helps some.

# ? May 5, 2011 23:41

Mozzie: Oct 26, 2007

Can anyone explain to me what is so special about Pace and there fusion camera over most other rigs on the market? I hear that Pace is making GBS threads on all the competitors like their setups are worse than hitler and I don't see what the big deal is.

# ? May 6, 2011 23:34

Rogetz: Jan 11, 2003; Alcohol and Nicotine every morning

Flutch posted:

Made this for my final project in Advanced Media Arts, looking for any feedback at all if you've got seven minutes.

Dunno if it would count for your class but if you really want to do justice to this project it would be significantly better as a series of stills. Because that's all it is, but on video. It's a horrible use of the medium. Why use a medium that exists in time and is best at portraying motion (or juxtaposing motion with stillness) when what you're displaying is images frozen in time? It's not like the soundtrack adds a hell of a lot and it's basically a slideshow right now.

Aside from that, most of your compositions are pretty boring. As others have said, we have no context for these images beyond what you've told us. I don't care about these locations because I don't occupy that space, therefor they mean nothing to me. Without some killer composition (pun intended because it's the focus of your project) all of the impact is lost to everyone except your fellow students.

All that said, you're getting some pretty harsh feedback, and it's easy to get discouraged and stop trying. DON'T! The point of feedback is to improve your work, so don't let a bunch of jerks from the internet keep you from trying.

# ? May 7, 2011 19:34

Walnut Crunch: Feb 26, 2003

If you think this is harsh, try getting network notes.

"This show is like a jigsaw puzzle put together poorly by a child" - that one stung. But screw them, I got highest ratings for my episodes, viewship increased across the 46 minutes.

Still a harsh note though.

# ? May 7, 2011 22:25

Rogetz: Jan 11, 2003; Alcohol and Nicotine every morning

I guess my point was that you're going to get harsh notes no matter what so they should be used as a jumping off point for improvement rather than a dissuasion from doing more work. It's easy to rip in to someone, it's not as easy to take it.

# ? May 8, 2011 00:27

CaptainViolence: Apr 19, 2006; I'M GONNA GET YOU DUCK

Rogetz posted:

I guess my point was that you're going to get harsh notes no matter what so they should be used as a jumping off point for improvement rather than a dissuasion from doing more work. It's easy to rip in to someone, it's not as easy to take it.

Rogetz posted:

All that said, you're getting some pretty harsh feedback, and it's easy to get discouraged and stop trying. DON'T! The point of feedback is to improve your work, so don't let a bunch of jerks from the internet keep you from trying.

I guess maybe I didn't make it clear enough in my previous post, but I definitely agree with this. I didn't write all that stuff as a way of saying "gently caress off," it was more about taking the time to actually watch the piece and give some advice on how to improve it. Everybody sucks when they start, and no matter how much you've done or how good you are, it's important to hear feedback on how to get better, and I wanted to provide some of that as a way of saying, "keep going."

# ? May 8, 2011 04:05

Moon Potato: May 12, 2003

Does anyone here do any nature videography/cinematography? I've found myself doing more and more of it as a hobby since moving up to Humboldt County, and I may have the opportunity to start doing it professionally this fall - I'd love to hear some general career advice from experienced nature videographers, and any filming anecdotes you'd like to share.

To contribute something, here's a reel cut together from a day's filming in the National Redwood Park:
http://vimeo.com/23743663

# ? May 15, 2011 20:32

Rogetz: Jan 11, 2003; Alcohol and Nicotine every morning

Moon Potato posted:

Does anyone here do any nature videography/cinematography? I've found myself doing more and more of it as a hobby since moving up to Humboldt County, and I may have the opportunity to start doing it professionally this fall - I'd love to hear some general career advice from experienced nature videographers, and any filming anecdotes you'd like to share.

To contribute something, here's a reel cut together from a day's filming in the National Redwood Park:
http://vimeo.com/23743663

I haven't done much in the way of nature videography but I do a fair bit of landscape photography. The main thing you're going for (at least as far as I'm concerned) is a sense of grandeur. Think about how to best capture the breath-taking scene in front of you within the confines of the frame.

I'm not really getting that from the reel. It feels pretty claustrophobic, which can happen easily in forests, making them difficult to shoot. I think the main issue is that aside from a few rack-focus shots of leaves, the foreground doesn't pop much from the background. The shots of the deer are also pretty static and go on for too long.

Wish I had more advice for you, hope this helps.

# ? May 15, 2011 20:52

Moon Potato: May 12, 2003

Rogetz posted:

I haven't done much in the way of nature videography but I do a fair bit of landscape photography. The main thing you're going for (at least as far as I'm concerned) is a sense of grandeur. Think about how to best capture the breath-taking scene in front of you within the confines of the frame.

I'm not really getting that from the reel. It feels pretty claustrophobic, which can happen easily in forests, making them difficult to shoot. I think the main issue is that aside from a few rack-focus shots of leaves, the foreground doesn't pop much from the background. The shots of the deer are also pretty static and go on for too long.

Wish I had more advice for you, hope this helps.

I'm more interested in advice on how to avoid a flat image in that situation - on foggy days, the lighting in the canyon is very flat and doesn't produce very vivid colors. On sunny days (like the one this reel is from) the contrast between sun and shade exceeds the camera's dynamic range, so you're stuck filming mostly in the shade while excluding everything above the canyon walls lest it result in ugly blow-outs or vast muddy/black areas. I did grab some footage of the mouth of the canyon to use as an establishing shot and give a more open sense of space, but there's far too much contrast in the lighting to produce a decent image. I think I'm going to have to go back there around dawn or dusk to get any usable wide shots.

I'm not really interested in feedback on the editing right now - this reel was intended mostly just to share the imagery in this area with friends and family. When I have the material to put together something with a narrative flow, then I'll be interested in feedback

Also, if anyone has experience filming birds, I'd love to hear advice about that - I've done very little of it, but the person who's probably going to be my main source of funding over the next year adores birds, and will want a lot of footage of them at the local marsh.

# ? May 15, 2011 21:33

bassguitarhero: Feb 29, 2008

Foggy or overcast days are best for shooting because you can work the iris to get the most from your colors. When the sun is cut down by clouds you can really push your exposure to get the most from your light.
For shooting birds, you need to be patient and fast. You can sometimes sit there for an hour or more waiting for a bird to land in the right spot, bit it's worth it. Like all animals, they're creatures of habit so if you find a spot they like to roost, set up that angle and wait. They'll come back eventually, but you have to be patient.

# ? May 16, 2011 00:44

Moon Potato: May 12, 2003

bassguitarhero posted:

Foggy or overcast days are best for shooting because you can work the iris to get the most from your colors. When the sun is cut down by clouds you can really push your exposure to get the most from your light.
For shooting birds, you need to be patient and fast. You can sometimes sit there for an hour or more waiting for a bird to land in the right spot, bit it's worth it. Like all animals, they're creatures of habit so if you find a spot they like to roost, set up that angle and wait. They'll come back eventually, but you have to be patient.

Overcast weather can make it easier to expose for a subject, but it also tends to light things pretty evenly all the way around except for a heavy shadow on the underside, and gets rid of the warm highlights against cool shadows that we associate with natural lighting. Maybe it's just that I'm fairly inexperienced with color correction, but I have a hard time making pictures and footage shot on overcast days have both sufficiently vivid contrast and natural looking colors. What do you do to work around the flatness contrast-wise and color temperature-wise?

Also, do you have any tricks for framing shots of birds and tracking their movements, or is it just a matter of patience, persistence, and eventually getting a feeling for their behavior?

# ? May 16, 2011 03:34

Walnut Crunch: Feb 26, 2003

I've shot a lot of birds and yes patience is important. Learning their movements and having a lens with a mechanical focus ring is crucial. I did a shoot following puffins on a long lens as they'd leave their cliff, circle out the ocean and come back.

A good tripod, and a couple of practice runs and you start to get a feel for the motion and the focus. Then there is also guessing. Based on that other stuff you just have to guess where they are going to go and commit to it. When it works you'll be in heaven.

I long time nature doc guy once told me a story about his favourite shooter. That guy used to sit out front of his house and practice pulling focus and framing on tires of cars as they went by. Practice, practice. That way, when you are out in the middle of nowhere, a little too close to a cliff, with the sun beating on your head, and the wind blowing, and a million other distractions, you can handle getting the shot.

Also having a camera with a buffer is a godsend. I was shooting whales breeching, and you never quite know where they'll come up until they do. I'd point the camera where I thought they'd come up and hold steady. If they came up there, I'd hit the red button, it would capture my 5 second buffer and I'd get the whole sequence, not just them coming out of the water. If I didn't have that I would have burned so much space just rolling and hoping

# ? May 16, 2011 05:52

Moon Potato: May 12, 2003

Walnut Crunch posted:

I've shot a lot of birds and yes patience is important. Learning their movements and having a lens with a mechanical focus ring is crucial. I did a shoot following puffins on a long lens as they'd leave their cliff, circle out the ocean and come back.

A good tripod, and a couple of practice runs and you start to get a feel for the motion and the focus. Then there is also guessing. Based on that other stuff you just have to guess where they are going to go and commit to it. When it works you'll be in heaven.

I long time nature doc guy once told me a story about his favourite shooter. That guy used to sit out front of his house and practice pulling focus and framing on tires of cars as they went by. Practice, practice. That way, when you are out in the middle of nowhere, a little too close to a cliff, with the sun beating on your head, and the wind blowing, and a million other distractions, you can handle getting the shot.

Also having a camera with a buffer is a godsend. I was shooting whales breeching, and you never quite know where they'll come up until they do. I'd point the camera where I thought they'd come up and hold steady. If they came up there, I'd hit the red button, it would capture my 5 second buffer and I'd get the whole sequence, not just them coming out of the water. If I didn't have that I would have burned so much space just rolling and hoping

Thanks for the advice - I waited a long time to invest in an HD camera because I was pretty unimpressed with the price/performance of HDV systems and the HVX200, and ended up getting an XF300 so I'd have the manual focus ring, buffer and all its other goodies. My tripod is an older miller with a 20lb head that I've jerry-rigged a shoulder strap onto. It's one of the more clumsy fluid heads I've used, but it gets the job done and I don't mind taking it into rough terrain.

Now that the days are getting longer, I should probably just stop by the marsh with a camera on the way home from work each day and practice filming birds.

# ? May 16, 2011 07:46

Mozzie: Oct 26, 2007

does anyone have experience using an SI 2K mini as an A-cam? I'm thinking of using s16 lenses with it too.

# ? May 17, 2011 01:18

Tiresias: Feb 28, 2002; All that lives lives forever.

Mozzie posted:

does anyone have experience using an SI 2K mini as an A-cam? I'm thinking of using s16 lenses with it too.

I don't see why you couldn't. What you thinkin?

# ? May 17, 2011 01:30

Mozzie: Oct 26, 2007

short of specialty applications and 3D, I never hear of an SI-2k or SI-2k mini being used as just a straight standard camera.

# ? May 17, 2011 06:00

Tiresias: Feb 28, 2002; All that lives lives forever.

Mozzie posted:

short of specialty applications and 3D, I never hear of an SI-2k or SI-2k mini being used as just a straight standard camera.

Probably because it is such a specialized camera. Why shoot 2k when you can rent a RED One MX for roughly the same price (body without accessories)?

# ? May 17, 2011 06:26

Rogetz: Jan 11, 2003; Alcohol and Nicotine every morning

Any advice on getting the best possible image out of a flip cam? Or just anecdotes with using them. I'm going to be shooting in full sun with 1-2 reflectors and 1-2 flags. Based on some test footage it looks like shooting in 720 crushes the blacks more than 1080i does. Planning on stationary tripod shots with a tilt at the end, maybe a short pan, but for the most part I wont be moving the frame within a shot.

# ? May 17, 2011 06:26

SquareDog: Feb 8, 2004; silent but deadly

The latest short film that I directed, the Arabic language Zineb's Journey, screened at Cannes today. It not on the official selection list but it screened all the same. I couldn't be there to see it but I'm still very proud. Just wanted to share that.

# ? May 22, 2011 06:31

Tiresias: Feb 28, 2002; All that lives lives forever.

A feature I DP'ed last year made it into the Dances with Films film festival. We have our premiere on June 9th. Feel free to attend if you want to come and live in LA:

http://danceswithfilms.com/2011_listings_05.html

# ? May 22, 2011 07:10

butterypancakes: Aug 19, 2006; mmm pancakes

SquareDog posted:

The latest short film that I directed, the Arabic language Zineb's Journey, screened at Cannes today. It not on the official selection list but it screened all the same. I couldn't be there to see it but I'm still very proud. Just wanted to share that.

Congratulations!

# ? May 22, 2011 21:08

Moon Potato: May 12, 2003

SquareDog posted:

The latest short film that I directed, the Arabic language Zineb's Journey, screened at Cannes today. It not on the official selection list but it screened all the same. I couldn't be there to see it but I'm still very proud. Just wanted to share that.

That's definitely something to be proud about - well done!

# ? May 23, 2011 00:25

SquareDog: Feb 8, 2004; silent but deadly

Here's a test shot I did of our new Diablo high speed camera.

It's a florescent tube being smashed at 1540 fps.

http://vimeo.com/24242449

# ? May 26, 2011 09:23

Mozzie: Oct 26, 2007

Cool bit on the camera rig being used on the new transformers movie that was designed by the place I work at.

http://www.firstshowing.net/2011/watch-behind-the-scenes-of-the-skydivers-from-transformers-3/

Shame they never mention that it isn't actually fusion3D/pace camera, drat james cameron taking all the glory.

# ? Jun 3, 2011 02:23

Slim Pickens: Jan 12, 2007; Grimey Drawer

My video instructor just showed us the scene 64 editing contest on the "The Power of Few" website.

http://thepoweroffew.com/editing

Seems like an interesting opportunity, if just to have a chance to edit some professional footage.

# ? Jun 3, 2011 19:19

Mozzie: Oct 26, 2007

Slim Pickens posted:

My video instructor just showed us the scene 64 editing contest on the "The Power of Few" website.

http://thepoweroffew.com/editing

Seems like an interesting opportunity, if just to have a chance to edit some professional footage.

um there is an editing thread for this kind of stuff

Finally my company released a news update so I can tell you the company. They did it before I started working there though.

http://www.3dcameracompany.com/inde...c-news&Itemid=6

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oLpx7PQDOpI

# ? Jun 7, 2011 00:06

Das MicroKorg: Sep 18, 2005; Vintage Analog Synthesizer

Edit: never mind

Das MicroKorg fucked around with this message at 08:00 on Jun 20, 2011

# ? Jun 15, 2011 10:03

Momonari kun: Apr 6, 2002; Yes, you needed video.

What's a decent source for relatively inexpensive rigs (under $500, not including matte box or follow focus) for an AF100? I'm looking at indisystem (https://www.indisystem.com) at their Areeba or DSLRsm or indiRAILSpro XV sm, but the few reviews I've found say that the parts are relatively heavy. Jag35 stuff is also supposed to be good for the price, but looks much more geared towards DSLRs. I want something I can put a decent sized lens, matte box, and follow focus on. Conversion to shoulder mounted is wanted, but not necessary.

I'd save up for a Zacuto or something more expensive, but because I'm going to the US in a few weeks, I can pick up some cheaper rails now, have them for three or so years, and then when I go back, get something more expensive. If I don't buy now, once I come back to Korea, the import fees on such products would basically double its cost, making a Zacuto rig insanely expensive, so I can't wait a few months either.

Someone also mentioned Gini Rigs, because he's in Korea, but I looked on eBay, won an auction, but he didn't respond to four e-mails, so I've given up.

All the other forums are filled with gearheads who don't answer my question and just tell me I should spend triple what I want to. Are there any good rigs out there for around $500?

# ? Jun 20, 2011 02:26

SquareDog: Feb 8, 2004; silent but deadly

I hate to say it but honestly that's not really a realistic budget for a handheld rig with mattebox and follow focus that will accommodate an AF-100 (or any camera for that matter). I'm sure you could find that for the right price somewhere but I can almost guarantee that it will be so terrible that it will not be worth any amount of money. The best you can hope for is something for $1,000 and even then it won't be very good. I wish I could tell you otherwise but I'm just trying to save you the heartache of buying something that's functionally worthless.

Maybe try ebay?

# ? Jun 20, 2011 04:50

Momonari kun: Apr 6, 2002; Yes, you needed video.

I have a follow focus and matte box already, so the $500 was for the shoulder/rod support. I'm already spending way too drat much money on the camera and lenses.

# ? Jun 20, 2011 07:58

SquareDog: Feb 8, 2004; silent but deadly

Oh well then just go for that cheap stuff you found if you're just going to turn around and sell it before long.

I feel like my posts weren't any help at this point, sorry for that. Best of luck.

# ? Jun 20, 2011 08:55

Momonari kun: Apr 6, 2002; Yes, you needed video.

Haha, it's all right. I just want something to last me for a few years and not be complete crap. I may forgo the shoulder mount, as I already have a cheapo Spiderbrace which I can use in a pinch. That'll lower my costs. I also looked up local Zacuto rig prices. About double of what they are in the US, and I have about half of that now. I still need to get a wide angle lens too. Widest I have now is 25 mm, which is a normal on the AF100. This poo poo's expensive.

# ? Jun 20, 2011 08:59

1st AD: Dec 3, 2004; Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu: sometimes passing just isn't an option.

Well there's the Panasonic 7-14 f/4, that ought to cover your super wide angle needs.

# ? Jun 21, 2011 01:53

Momonari kun: Apr 6, 2002; Yes, you needed video.

I was going to get the 9-18 as a compromise until I can afford the 7-14, but focus by wire isn't that great. I've decided on the 14-54 Olympus as a stop gap. I still need the 14-25 range, it's a good deal faster than the 9-18, and it won't overlap the 7-14 when I do get it.

# ? Jun 21, 2011 02:04

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# ? May 17, 2024 19:09

Gunjin: Apr 27, 2004; Om nom nom

Does anyone in here have any experience with the Canon XF305? I do in house corporate stuff and we're finally going HD for everything this year. We're looking for an all around camera that has to have HD-SDI out, XLR input, decent low light performance, and output that meets TV minimum standards for HD broadcast. Camera will both be used for broadcasting over our closed circuit network via the HD-SDI out, and for recording various meetings, making training videos, and other things of that nature.

We were originally planning to go with something like a Sony PMW-350 + a ki-pro or nanoflash, but the Canon seems to hit all of our points and is both a fuckload less expensive and doesn't require an off camera recorder. The reviews I've read have been favorable, but there aren't a lot of them and I was wondering if anyone here had any hands on.

# ? Jun 21, 2011 02:33

The Something Awful Forums > The Finer Arts > Creative Convention > Cinematography thread: No film vs. video talk, dammit

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