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dexefiend posted:I am also pissed at this idea of "banging supermodels ... awesomeness" and then he can't even beat up two soldiers. I find it silly to build up this guy as superman, and then have him be useless. It almost comes to the idea of unreliable narrator. If he didn't have Bast licking his boots I would think we had a Usual Suspects thing going on. If Rothfuss wanted to show him as less than omnipotent, he picked a rather blunt way to do it. Of all the things in the books, this actually makes me happy instead of angry. But I enjoy "fallen from grace" badasses who get their mojo back so I might be predisposed to like the structure. I can definitely envision plot-driven reasons for why he's no longer the same Kvothe.
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Apr 27, 2011 18:35
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Sophia posted:Of all the things in the books, this actually makes me happy instead of angry. But I enjoy "fallen from grace" badasses who get their mojo back so I might be predisposed to like the structure. I can definitely envision plot-driven reasons for why he's no longer the same Kvothe. Yeah, this part actually bothered me less than most of the problem areas in WMF. After all, Bast has pretty much come out and said that Kvothe is a shadow of the person he once was, that he's lost all belief in himself, and that this is why he wanted the Chronicler to push him to tell his story - in the hope that it helps him remember who he used to be / what he used to be like.
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Apr 27, 2011 18:42
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Sophia posted:I enjoy "fallen from grace" badasses who get their mojo back so I might be predisposed to like the structure. I like badasses who excel in badassery, even if they are one dimensional. I wanted him to call the name of blood and have them paint the walls of the inn.
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Apr 27, 2011 18:49
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Habibi posted:Bast has pretty much come out and said that Kvothe is a shadow of the person he once was, that he's lost all belief in himself Yup a man waiting to die as mentioned in both books so far. ...the third silence, right guys?
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Apr 27, 2011 18:51
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Bantaras posted:Yup The third silence is the people speaking up to defend Rothfuss for the Felurian part of this book.
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Apr 27, 2011 20:13
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Benson Cunningham posted:The third silence is the people speaking up to defend Rothfuss for the Felurian part of this book. Yeah. I liked the book a lot and that segment made me cringe (except for the Cthaeh, but that doesn't really count as a Felurian part).
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Apr 27, 2011 20:16
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Mahlertov Cocktail posted:Yeah. I liked the book a lot and that segment made me cringe (except for the Cthaeh, but that doesn't really count as a Felurian part). As with most things, the problem wasn't with the story idea but with the execution (and lack of stern editing). I liked Cthaeh, and that we learned about Jak and that he got into a baller fight and kicked some rear end and earned some respect even from magical creatures because the world of the books is fascinating and Kvothe is supposed to be a badass. The fact that he went led to a lot of things that I liked. But all of the sex and the  was so distasteful and eye-roll-inducing.And dexefiend, I totally get why you like to see badasses kicking rear end, but in this case he tells us at the beginning of the entire series that Kvothe has lost his badassery. I guess I just don't feel like you can complain when later on it's like "yep, he really has lost it". I mean, it might not be the kind of story you like, which is fine, but you can't say he didn't warn you. 
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Apr 27, 2011 20:36
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Sophia posted:And dexefiend, I totally get why you like to see badasses kicking rear end, but in this case he tells us at the beginning of the entire series that Kvothe has lost his badassery. I guess I just don't feel like you can complain when later on it's like "yep, he really has lost it". I mean, it might not be the kind of story you like, which is fine, but you can't say he didn't warn you. I totally agree with this. I was hoping he just was like "Yeah, I am a badass but  ." In actuality, he is like +  .
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Apr 27, 2011 20:45
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Well, take heart! Maybe Bast will get him back to his awesome ways by the end of the next book and he will punch through an entire horde of demons in one shot. (Or maybe he'll write a long poem about Denna's cheekbones)
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Apr 27, 2011 20:48
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dexefiend posted:I totally agree with this. I was hoping he just was like "Yeah, I am a badass but I think the issue many of us have is that there is, as of yet, no real indication why Kvothe isn't still a badass. I can accept that he can't use magic, which we've known since book one, but given his training he should be able to hand two guys their asses. He kills a horde of loving demons with an iron rod in the first book, and now suddenly two people are too much? I think a much more realistic answer is just that Patrick Rothfuss realized Kvothe was too powerful and too smart in the first book. He is noticeably less capable in the second novel, his flaws are more emphasized than his strengths, and Rothfuss just turns him into some suave mother fucker to make up for making him shittier. It's really seems more like a retcon than something planned.
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Apr 27, 2011 21:12
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I just got to: The part in the creek where Denna's slip is showing... and then he says "LOVE ME" I just about  . I almost don't want to finish. I am afraid he is going to Terry Goodkind this in the third book.I totally agree that he made Kvothe too awesome in the first book, and is now toning him down. It is the classic issue of tension I think. If the A.C. Slater gets Jessi and wins the weightlifting challenge in the first 5 minutes of the episode WHERE DO YOU GO FROM THERE?
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Apr 27, 2011 22:20
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dexefiend posted:I totally agree that he made Kvothe too awesome in the first book, and is now toning him down. It is the classic issue of tension I think. If the A.C. Slater gets Jessi and wins the weightlifting challenge in the first 5 minutes of the episode WHERE DO YOU GO FROM THERE? Rothfuss could have better spent his time having Kvothe in situations that annul his super powers, like the Chandarin or women, rather than pretending they suddenly don't exist. Oh wait, Kvothe almost killed Cinder and he gets loving hand jobs from every woman he winks at. He probably doesn't have time to study with all the dick yanking going on every time he turns around. I have to imagine Rothfuss thinks having a sex is what makes someone an adult, and this book is Kvothe's coming of age tale. Yes, I made that pun.
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Apr 28, 2011 05:40
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soru posted:Did anyone notice the bit at the very end where he walks out to the common room in the middle of the night, stands where his fight took place, and takes one tiny perfect step? It seems like another hint that Kvothe may be just playing the role of an innkeeper who's getting his rear end kicked. There are several passages about how people are defined by who they pretend to be, etc., and so by pretending to be just an innkeeper that's all he's becoming, and it seems that's what he desires because he's racked with guilt by....something. That's why Bast is so insistent that Chronicler try to rekindle Kvothe's memories of the good he's done, to try to convince him that it's worth being Kvothe and just not let himself slip away. Book three is going to have to be one hell of a downer for the framing story to make sense. That framing story is what saves these two books from being C-list fantasy, but goddamn Rothfuss really needs a better(stricter) editor.
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Apr 29, 2011 09:51
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Liesmith posted:It kind of makes you wonder what his editor was thinking. Habibi posted:Who the hell is this guy's editor and why did she allow this book to hit the shelves in its current form? Tolli posted:It should have been edited more. Above Our Own posted:His editor really needs to grow a pair and tell him that his stuff just rants on and on. Sophia posted:As with most things, the problem wasn't with the story idea but with the execution (and lack of stern editing). DirtyDiaperMask posted:but goddamn Rothfuss really needs a better(stricter) editor. Nope, Benson Cunningham, I think I figured out what the silence of the third part was.
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Apr 30, 2011 00:00
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Bantaras posted:Nope, Benson Cunningham, Kind of looks like the vocal majority to me. yes I got the joke.
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May 1, 2011 16:16
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Sup guys. I'm a fan of the series, first read Name of the Wind pretty much when it first came out. My critiques of the new book are, I suppose, somewhat the same as many of the others. Lots of sex, Kvothe seems to be just too awesome to be believable, hurf durf, seems to go off and at times not really advance the plot. There are still gems in there, though, so I enjoyed reading it. The idea of the Cthaeh, and a few of the other mystical plot advancements, were rather disconcerting to me (in a good, thoughtful way). Kvothe has always suffered from a touch of the Marty Stu syndrome, even dating back to book one, so I hope Rothfuss finds his balance between the tragically flawed character and the hero of song and legend that he keeps shooting for.
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May 2, 2011 07:07
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dexefiend posted:I am also pissed at this idea of "banging supermodels ... awesomeness" and then he can't even beat up two soldiers. I find it silly to build up this guy as superman, and then have him be useless. It almost comes to the idea of unreliable narrator. If he didn't have Bast licking his boots I would think we had a Usual Suspects thing going on. If Rothfuss wanted to show him as less than omnipotent, he picked a rather blunt way to do it. I thought it was pretty obvious that he was faking the whole "can't fight" thing. After it was done Kvothe states that he "almost forgot who he was" in regards to the fight. He's supposed to be Kote the innkeeper, it wouldn't look good for a "simple innkeeper" to beat two soldiers in a fistfight. Then at the very end he's still able to practice the Ketan.
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May 3, 2011 03:06
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muscles like this? posted:I thought it was pretty obvious that he was faking the whole "can't fight" thing. After it was done Kvothe states that he "almost forgot who he was" in regards to the fight. He's supposed to be Kote the innkeeper, it wouldn't look good for a "simple innkeeper" to beat two soldiers in a fistfight. Then at the very end he's still able to practice the Ketan.
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May 3, 2011 04:32
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muscles like this? posted:I thought it was pretty obvious that he was faking the whole "can't fight" thing. After it was done Kvothe states that he "almost forgot who he was" in regards to the fight. He's supposed to be Kote the innkeeper, it wouldn't look good for a "simple innkeeper" to beat two soldiers in a fistfight. Then at the very end he's still able to practice the Ketan. drat you, I was going to say this and then I'd look like the smart one! That'll teach me to ignore the thread so long...
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May 3, 2011 05:47
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I just finished The Wise Man's Fear yesterday and while I like the series as a whole god drat, Rothfuss does not know how to end a book. Neither books feel like it ends at a natural stopping point and instead just seems like he cuts it off. Also, he's spent one and a half books of Kvothe at the University, it'd be nice if he would actually move on from there.
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May 3, 2011 12:05
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muscles like this? posted:I just finished The Wise Man's Fear yesterday and while I like the series as a whole god drat, Rothfuss does not know how to end a book. Neither books feel like it ends at a natural stopping point and instead just seems like he cuts it off. Also, he's spent one and a half books of Kvothe at the University, it'd be nice if he would actually move on from there. Yeah, I finished it a few days ago and this is pretty much how I feel. I don't really mind him being back at the University at this point, but I'm glad that most of the book didn't take place there. And I'm not sure of the ending. It took me awhile to actually get into it, because it was just the same University stuff that the last book ended with, but once the stroy started taking palce elsewhere, it flew for me. That is, until the Fleurian section. I've never felt like putting a book down more than I did during that part. It led to something neat in the Ctaeth, but uggghhh. I mean it's one thing to make a character undeniably awesome, but this was jsut going too far. It was just kind of embarassing to read. I won't comment on whether it's good book or not, because I honestly don't know good books from bad, but I was entertained enough, and I'm looking forward to the final book.
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May 4, 2011 16:09
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muscles like this? posted:I thought it was pretty obvious that he was faking the whole "can't fight" thing. After it was done Kvothe states that he "almost forgot who he was" in regards to the fight. He's supposed to be Kote the innkeeper, it wouldn't look good for a "simple innkeeper" to beat two soldiers in a fistfight. Then at the very end he's still able to practice the Ketan. I got a different impression from this scene. After telling this story about being a badass, he gets into a fight with the soldiers, thinking he could easily take them. The way I viewed it was he forgot that he was no longer able to whup rear end. One of the key parts was when he was trying to break the hold but was surprised that it failed.
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May 4, 2011 17:17
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McGrady posted:I got a different impression from this scene. After telling this story about being a badass, he gets into a fight with the soldiers, thinking he could easily take them. The way I viewed it was he forgot that he was no longer able to whup rear end. One of the key parts was when he was trying to break the hold but was surprised that it failed.
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May 4, 2011 18:50
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muscles like this? posted:I thought it was pretty obvious that he was faking the whole "can't fight" thing. After it was done Kvothe states that he "almost forgot who he was" in regards to the fight. He's supposed to be Kote the innkeeper, it wouldn't look good for a "simple innkeeper" to beat two soldiers in a fistfight. Then at the very end he's still able to practice the Ketan. Why do you think that he's telling the truth with the "almost forgot who he was" in the fight thing? I took it as a kind of justification for getting beaten up ("I'm not weak, I was just pretending to be").
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May 6, 2011 04:37
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gently caress,MarshallX posted:*Read 3 pages* was exactly what I did when I got to that part. I don't really know why or how I keep reading Rothfuss, I think a part of me misses being younger and enjoying books like this, and the rest of it is my almost pathological completionism. You can tell he really loves to write and it's easy enough to just sort of follow the story along and get a mild enjoyment out of reading it, but it's seldom very suspenseful and certain parts of it are some of the most   poo poo I've ever read in my life, to the point where I'm sure I'm being trolled. I think it bugs me most that there is the kernel of an awesome story in there, but Rothfuss seems to run with it in the opposite direction most of the time. I'm tempted to leave a Post-It note in it somewhere around page 632 (it's a library book) with a big  and instructions to skip ahead to the tree, then skip ahead to the inn. I will read the next thousand-page doorstop to see how it ends. Liesmith posted:I don't think comparing one set of fantasy novels to another set of fantasy novels fits any definition of blasphemy that I've ever heard. There's an almost peerlessly atheist joke in here, but I'm too hungover to take a stab at it.
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May 6, 2011 22:38
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WMF would have been so much better if he would have summarized the parts in the Fae and expanded the summarized parts of the trial. But I guess Rothfuss' rationale was that we really needed the Ctaeh or something. Too little murdering of darlings.
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May 7, 2011 16:45
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Just finished this book, loved and hated it. I nearly put it down twice: first, when he's off to see the Maer and suddenly says "I spent 16 days nearly dying, fighting pirates, starving and stabbing, but you don't want to know about that. Seriously? Second, (as seems to be this thread's opinion) the entire fae Felurian bit. Jesus christ. It absolutely stank of an author living out his imaginary fantasies and not having an editor with balls to cut it out. The "I'm now irresistible to barmaids/ casual sex-having Adem/ any woman near the university" was just as bad. Anyways, quite a few bits made up for that: the stabbing bandits/ calling down lightning was loving awesome. My girlfriend is pretty sure that Master Ash (Denna's patron) is Cinder, which would fit pretty nicely. Edit: didn't know that was a common theory! The Supreme Court fucked around with this message at 17:48 on May 8, 2011 |
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May 8, 2011 17:27
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The Supreme Court posted:Anyways, quite a few bits made up for that: the stabbing bandits. This reminds me: wouldn't that be pretty much cut-and-dried malfeasance? Like, the kind that would get him burned at the stake (or whatever the equivalent punishment is), regardless of who he was attacking? He obviously got away with it, but wonder if it could come back to haunt him in the next book.
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May 8, 2011 18:43
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Pompous Rhombus posted:This reminds me: wouldn't that be pretty much cut-and-dried malfeasance? Like, the kind that would get him burned at the stake (or whatever the equivalent punishment is), regardless of who he was attacking? He obviously got away with it, but wonder if it could come back to haunt him in the next book. Absolutely. I figure his fellow mercenaries aren't gonna rat him out considering he saved their lives with it.
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May 8, 2011 19:19
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The Supreme Court posted:My girlfriend is pretty sure that Master Ash (Denna's patron) is Cinder, which would fit pretty nicely. Edit: didn't know that was a common theory! The 'prevailing' theory is that Master Ash is Bredon, who is also one of the (human) Amyr. And he is training Denna to become an Amyr; and what Kvothe assumes (in his rush to be her knight in shining armor, with the nudging of the Cthaeh) to be marks of her being beaten are actually from her training. Both Bredon and Ash use a walking stick, the times of their comings and goings in Severen seem to coincide, and it's possible Denna's rescuing of the prostitute may have been part of Amyr training. HeroOfTheRevolution fucked around with this message at 20:43 on May 8, 2011 |
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May 8, 2011 20:39
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Sophia posted:Well, take heart! Maybe Bast will get him back to his awesome ways by the end of the next book and he will punch through an entire horde of demons in one shot. Couldn't it be both? "I split my mind in two and composed a lovely poem about Denna's Cheekbones, you've probably heard of it, while I demon punched a horde of demons right in their demons."
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May 9, 2011 18:54
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Mahlertov Cocktail posted:Absolutely. I figure his fellow mercenaries aren't gonna rat him out considering he saved their lives with it. I'm also fairly sure that his fellow mercenaries were not particularly aware that he was a sophomore at Magic High, and if they were, probably are not too familiar with the intricacies of underage magic law.
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May 9, 2011 20:07
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HeroOfTheRevolution posted:The 'prevailing' theory is that Master Ash is Bredon
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May 10, 2011 06:32
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Just making a start on Wise Mans Fear and 120 pages in I'm losing any enthusiasm to read it. I'm just re-reading the same old poo poo over and over again. Being poor, getting tricked by Ambrose, playing lute, interviews for admission, borrowing money, making lamps etc etc. It's boring the second time round. I'm glad to hear it picks up after all this, but I'm not the kind of person that will wade through 100, 200, 300(??) pages to get to new content. Kind of annoyed I paid £15 for this book.
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May 12, 2011 08:37
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Dr Scoofles posted:Just making a start on Wise Mans Fear and 120 pages in I'm losing any enthusiasm to read it. I'm just re-reading the same old poo poo over and over again. Being poor, getting tricked by Ambrose, playing lute, interviews for admission, borrowing money, making lamps etc etc. It's boring the second time round.
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May 12, 2011 09:52
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Dr Scoofles posted:Just making a start on Wise Mans Fear and 120 pages in I'm losing any enthusiasm to read it. I'm just re-reading the same old poo poo over and over again. Being poor, getting tricked by Ambrose, playing lute, interviews for admission, borrowing money, making lamps etc etc. It's boring the second time round.  Things do get more interesting later, but it's a long slog.
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May 12, 2011 10:09
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In retrospect the entire first half of the book (though it does have some good parts), particularly two "these awesome things happened, but you don't want to hear about that" sections, may have been an intentional troll by Rothfuss.
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May 12, 2011 19:45
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JT Jag posted:In retrospect the entire first half of the book (though it does have some good parts), particularly two "these awesome things happened, but you don't want to hear about that" sections, may have been an intentional troll by Rothfuss. This would've been funny if the book itself was much shorter. Doing that 2 or 3 times while spending how many chapters one amazing fairy sex is somethign else entirely. I'm not sure what, but it's not funny, so it can't be a troll.
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May 12, 2011 19:49
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SpacePig posted:This would've been funny if the book itself was much shorter. Doing that 2 or 3 times while spending how many chapters one amazing fairy sex is somethign else entirely. I'm not sure what, but it's not funny, so it can't be a troll.
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May 12, 2011 19:54
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From where I'm sitting, he could have spent a bunch of chapters in the Fae realm as long as it wasn't all about how he was becoming a Level 20 sex god. I think going to other worlds and learning mystical secrets about monstrous trees and creation mythology stories and whatever is neat. He could have had lots of Fae adventures that taught him about the Chandrian or how to call on the true names of things. Instead he learned strangely named sex moves and then was given an edict to bang as many women as possible when he left.
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May 12, 2011 20:03
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