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The Reaganomicon posted:So about that privatized police force... Well, the military and intelligence services are very much privatized and they are charged with the highest matters of national security. There are also many other instances where we rely on private security in daily life. yronic heroism posted:Be sure to be really popular wherever you happen to live, or it's your fault what happens to you... Thanks, prison thread! More like not hated and not stupid enough to advertise that you got a bunch of pricey stuff. If people know you have money and things worth stealing then at least get a decent security system and keep a self defense weapon and/or guard dog. Knowing your neighbors is the best way to keep anything bad from happening though, and most people don't make much of an effort.
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May 5, 2011 08:40
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iceberg sleaz posted:Well, the military and intelligence services are very much privatized and they are charged with the highest matters of national security. There are also many other instances where we rely on private security in daily life.
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May 5, 2011 14:45
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iceberg sleaz posted:Well, the military and intelligence services are very much privatized and they are charged with the highest matters of national security. There are also many other instances where we rely on private security in daily life. Don't be ridiculous. While the manufacture of military weapons and equipment is of course privatized, the military comprises an immense share of our government spending and is wholly a government entity. The claim that the military is "privatized" is stupid and absurd on its face.
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May 5, 2011 15:25
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iceberg sleaz posted:More like not hated and not stupid enough to advertise that you got a bunch of pricey stuff. If people know you have money and things worth stealing then at least get a decent security system and keep a self defense weapon and/or guard dog. Knowing your neighbors is the best way to keep anything bad from happening though, and most people don't make much of an effort. This is incredibly naive. Yes, if your neighbors hate you and you have big signs proclaiming how big your TV is on your walls, you're certainly going to get robbed. But the reverse is not true. That assumes that A) you can even reliably be best buds with all your neighbors, B) that all burglaries are committed by people in the victim's immediate neighborhood, and C) that burglars can't figure out that you have any valuable stuff unless you literally broadcast it. Yes, let me paint over all my windows and install a foyer or an airlock or something so no one can ever see that I own a TV or an Xbox. Oh, and D) that being friends with 99% of your neighbors will prevent the 1% from doing anything through some sort of unspoken bro-code. I know all my neighbors, at least everyone on my block and some on the next, and that will do gently caress all to prevent someone who lives in the next neighborhood over from breaking into my house when I am not home. Also, you know what "decent security systems" do when they get set off? They call the police. You know, those people you don't want to call. Owning a gun doesn't help when most burglaries happen when the person is not at home. And not everyone lives somewhere where they can practically have a dog at all, much less one who can function as a guard dog.
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May 5, 2011 15:36
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Pope Guilty posted:Don't be ridiculous. While the manufacture of military weapons and equipment is of course privatized, the military comprises an immense share of our government spending and is wholly a government entity. The claim that the military is "privatized" is stupid and absurd on its face. More importantly, the privatized bits of the military (companies like Xe) are typically MORE abusive, not less.
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May 5, 2011 15:55
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I'm now curious about how iceberg sleaz knows that his neighbors want to rob and kidnap him and when he was kidnapped and thrown into a hole. Is he a member of al-Qaida or something?
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May 5, 2011 17:03
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CellBlock posted:I'm now curious about how iceberg sleaz knows that his neighbors want to rob and kidnap him and when he was kidnapped and thrown into a hole. I believe he's using "kidnapped and thrown in a hole" to mean "went to prison".
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May 5, 2011 17:37
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Dominion posted:I believe he's using "kidnapped and thrown in a hole" to mean "went to prison". Probably. The more interesting part is still the "I knew people wanted to kidnap me, but they couldn't because I know my poo poo." It just reeks of "Internet Toughguy" and seems to be trying to make the point that we can all just bootstrap ourselves out of being attacked. (Sort of like the hyper-advocates of CCW, except there doesn't seem to be any endorsement of weapon ownership.)
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May 5, 2011 21:00
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CellBlock posted:Probably. The more interesting part is still the "I knew people wanted to kidnap me, but they couldn't because I know my poo poo." There was, he mentioned "own a self defense weapon" among the things one should do to protect oneself from being robbed, if Plan A of "make everyone like you" falls through. Not that I am against gun ownership, I just don't think it really makes much of a difference since most burglaries happen when you aren't home.
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May 5, 2011 21:44
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I want to expand on what I asked a few days back. What, from an "impartial" academic standpoint are the best sources to consult when it comes to comparing public and private prisons? What I'm really looking for now is something that's fairly recent (hopefully from the last five years, or at least the last ten) and that presents empirical evidence (the more rigorous the methodology, the better) on things like recidivism, cost, rate of violent incidents, etc... am I wrong to say that so far it doesn't look like there's been a lot of work in this area?
yronic heroism fucked around with this message at 17:57 on May 8, 2011 |
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May 6, 2011 10:52
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HELLO THERE posted:What is (ostensibly) the purpose of a police force? And what is the purpose of a for-profit enterprise? Are these two goals the same thing? "A police force" is a variety of Law Enforcement Agency meaning it is their job to enforce laws, particularly the sort they are legislated in their respective jurisdictions. Thats all, nothing romantic about it like saving damsels in distress and killing/jailing "bad people". Pope Guilty posted:Don't be ridiculous. While the manufacture of military weapons and equipment is of course privatized, the military comprises an immense share of our government spending and is wholly a government entity. The claim that the military is "privatized" is stupid and absurd on its face. I'm not referring to weapons and equipment manufacture for the most part, this isn't the 70s and 80s where the military industrial complex was based off of manufacturing. Since Desert Storm the mil/ind complex has shifted to providing services, intelligence and logistics. There isn't one facet of what the military does that private contractors aren't a significant part of. They even make up most of the support staffing which used to be only US servicepeople. Dominion posted:This is incredibly naive. Yes, if your neighbors hate you and you have big signs proclaiming how big your TV is on your walls, you're certainly going to get robbed. But the reverse is not true. That assumes that A) you can even reliably be best buds with all your neighbors, B) that all burglaries are committed by people in the victim's immediate neighborhood, and C) that burglars can't figure out that you have any valuable stuff unless you literally broadcast it. Yes, let me paint over all my windows and install a foyer or an airlock or something so no one can ever see that I own a TV or an Xbox. Oh, and D) that being friends with 99% of your neighbors will prevent the 1% from doing anything through some sort of unspoken bro-code. This is incredibly reactive and knee jerk. I never said you need to be best friends with anybody or that ALL burglaries are committed by anybody in particular. Do you not realize that some people are more flashy than others, or maybe worse neighbors than other people? Most robberies happen because a mark is easy to see. I'm not sure how many B&E-er's you've known or how many times you've cased a place (or robbed it) but around here everyone knows this stuff because B&Es are common. In some places people are familiar with how and why it happens, who does it etc. and in other places people have less experience and wanna talk like they know. I don't know which category you fall into but you certainly seem to have a problem seeing the maths of it. The fact is there's bad stuff that can happen to anyone like getting broken into and you can never be 100% safe. All you can do is maximize your chances of not being targeted, and do whats possible to handle a situation where you do get targeted and someone comes. Thinking that calling 911 will save you or prevent anything from happening is flat out incorrect. That's not their job to guard you or your house. That's your job, or a dog's. As for all the things that can be done to keep someone from making you as an easy target, there are really way too many to list and its only common sense. It works too, because there's a lot of B&E crews and random drug addicts around here and they always get the easy marks. iceberg sleaz fucked around with this message at 23:16 on May 6, 2011 |
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May 6, 2011 22:57
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CellBlock posted:Probably. The more interesting part is still the "I knew people wanted to kidnap me, but they couldn't because I know my poo poo." I was doing some illicit activities for a while and knew a few people who did too. Its not uncommon for those types to pick up expensive drug habits, rack up legal fees, and generally start going broke. Thats when they get to thinking they should rob some people they know who do illicit stuff because someone like that probably would be good for a decent score. If ya kidnap then there's other money making opportunities too, the rob+kidnap move has been done a few times... I heard one of these guys that I met before was broke and wanted to do that poo poo, so I had to pretty much politic between common acquaintances to keep everything cool and safe. Never meant to make any point other than what the ones I made, which concern the effectiveness of an individual's power to protect themselves vs the police's ability to do the same. I just remember reading the other day about that goon who killed those 2 folks, and they called the cops before he came and did it but they didn't come "protect and serve". Private security > no security iceberg sleaz fucked around with this message at 23:32 on May 6, 2011 |
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May 6, 2011 23:29
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Don't want to derail but here's some more stuff about prison-
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May 6, 2011 23:52
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KingEup posted:Way to keep the poor, poor. Well, for all Its other faults, the Machine is definitely a 'sustainable industry.'
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May 7, 2011 00:01
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KingEup posted:Way to keep the poor, poor. ACLU report and Brennan Center report on the resurgence of debtor's prison. New article and HRW report on debtor's prison. Another ball-and-chain for offenders- debt.
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May 7, 2011 00:08
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HidingFromGoro posted:The important part is that you came out in one piece. You still in the 520? I might have some resources for you, if you need them.
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May 7, 2011 00:36
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HidingFromGoro posted:Don't want to derail but here's some more stuff about prison- gently caress me, just when I thought Alaska had its poo poo together because Goro hadn't found anything to talk about.
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May 7, 2011 03:29
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A.S.H. posted:gently caress me, just when I thought Alaska had its poo poo together because Goro hadn't found anything to talk about. There are a ton of offenses in AK involving or related to crystal, which I assume is due to many folks working long hours in the oil/gas industry or trucking. And for some reason there are also a lot of offenses involving kiddie porn, but why that is I have no idea. I've seen studies and papers which claim AK has a higher incidence of sex offenders per capita than other states, but after a computer crash I don't have sources and also I don't see why or if that would be the case.
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May 7, 2011 04:54
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HidingFromGoro posted:There are a ton of offenses in AK involving or related to crystal, which I assume is due to many folks working long hours in the oil/gas industry or trucking. And for some reason there are also a lot of offenses involving kiddie porn, but why that is I have no idea. I've seen studies and papers which claim AK has a higher incidence of sex offenders per capita than other states, but after a computer crash I don't have sources and also I don't see why or if that would be the case. The other thing with meth is the body completely gets rid of it in a few days, making it attractive to people who work in drug tested industries. Here in West Australia, we've had a huge spike in meth, and a lot of it is to do with miners. Since ALL mines piss-test for drugs, when miners return from the northwest , they know they have a week till they are back, so they can go on a 2 day bender, then just stick to drinking for 4-5 days and they'll piss clean when they get back to work. Pot takes a lot longer to get out the system, so for people in high responsibility jobs with drug testing, they are moving from weed to speed. Which is bit of a gently caress up actually, cos speed can have attrocious side effects on mental health.
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May 7, 2011 05:07
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HidingFromGoro posted:There are a ton of offenses in AK involving or related to crystal, which I assume is due to many folks working long hours in the oil/gas industry or trucking. And for some reason there are also a lot of offenses involving kiddie porn, but why that is I have no idea. I've seen studies and papers which claim AK has a higher incidence of sex offenders per capita than other states, but after a computer crash I don't have sources and also I don't see why or if that would be the case. The sex offense statistics probably grounded in what you mentioned before, drug abuse, this also includes alcohol. However part of it is also cultural. Tribes, and tribalism, aren't exactly known for gender equality, or reasonable sexual education. It gets even worse when you consider the dominance of religion this far out, which is like the opposite of sexual education. I've heard some really bad rumors that clergy who have histories of sexual abuse are swept off to Alaska, where they think isolation will prevent another relapse in their behavior. The worst parts are when I hear stories about women being abducted right off the streets, some of them managing to escape with their hands and wrists bound, bags over their heads. I take issue with 'dry' villages. Do people honestly think that prohibition curtails alcohol abuse? All it does is create a black market incentive for trafficking in either rotgut booze, or bringing it in from the cities. Then you create more criminals and a legislated need for more prisons to house them. Don't get me started on the dumb poo poo people do to get high when they can't obtain alcohol.
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May 7, 2011 05:27
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So yeah big question here. I realize it's probably been discussed in length but this threads gotten long and it's not worth making a new thread to ask so this seemed ideal. In GBS and DnD you see a lot of stuff about the prison system in America, either as a general topic or a specific new article and I totally agree with it. Here's my issue though, it feels like every thread stops at the awareness and doesnt go any further. It feels like I'm being told "Look at this. Look at it. Do you feel bad? You should.", naturally like any one with a shred of empathy I do feel bad. But I want to change it, and yet I feel like that bit of information is never supplied, just "raise awareness". Is there anything that in fact CAN be done other than telling other people to feel bad? I'd be willing to do next to anything that'd make some kind of small impact but it's like that never gets told. Is just "feel bad/angry at America" the extent of what any of us can do? RagnarokAngel fucked around with this message at 06:26 on May 9, 2011 |
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May 9, 2011 06:22
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"RagnarokAngel" posted:So yeah big question here. I realize it's probably been discussed in length but this threads gotten long and it's not worth making a new thread to ask so this seemed ideal. In GBS and DnD you see a lot of stuff about the prison system in America, either as a general topic or a specific new article and I totally agree with it. Here's my issue though, it feels like every thread stops at the awareness and doesnt go any further. It feels like I'm being told "Look at this. Look at it. Do you feel bad? You should.", naturally like any one with a shred of empathy I do feel bad. But I want to change it, and yet I feel like that bit of information is never supplied, just "raise awareness". Change public opinion in America so people think prison is for rehabilitation, not punishment or revenge. Also get rid of the systemic racism, but that is a whole separate complicated issue on it's own.
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May 9, 2011 06:36
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Dominion posted:Change public opinion in America so people think prison is for rehabilitation, not punishment or revenge. Along a similar vein: make it non political. Set up neutral boards staffed by people from the legal profession to make sentencing guidelines. A few of these popped up once or twice, but then they recommended putting kids who steal cars in prison for only 1 year, and politicians needed to be "tough on crime" so out they went.
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May 9, 2011 18:02
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BigHead posted:Along a similar vein: make it non political. Set up neutral boards staffed by people from the legal profession to make sentencing guidelines. A few of these popped up once or twice, but then they recommended putting kids who steal cars in prison for only 1 year, and politicians needed to be "tough on crime" so out they went. Well you said it yourself - it sort of will never be non political. Because at some level, the decisions about these things, or the decision of who sits on whatever boards make the decisions, will be decided by politicians, who will then have to defend that decision forever. And it only takes one Willie Horton to ruin someone's political career. So rather than trying to make it non-political, the only solution is to make it not political suicide to advocate for humane treatment of prisoners. Which requires public opinion to change away from bloodthirsty revenge fantasies.
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May 9, 2011 18:58
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RagnarokAngel posted:So yeah big question here. I realize it's probably been discussed in length but this threads gotten long and it's not worth making a new thread to ask so this seemed ideal. In GBS and DnD you see a lot of stuff about the prison system in America, either as a general topic or a specific new article and I totally agree with it. Here's my issue though, it feels like every thread stops at the awareness and doesnt go any further. It feels like I'm being told "Look at this. Look at it. Do you feel bad? You should.", naturally like any one with a shred of empathy I do feel bad. But I want to change it, and yet I feel like that bit of information is never supplied, just "raise awareness". No, honestly the problem is highly systematic and there is no way for you to have a meaningful impact on it's going away (unless you happen to be a billionaire). What you should take from this thread is a general distaste for the American "justice" system and act appropriately in your every day life. Don't report non-violent people to the police, don't aid the police in catching them or gathering evidence against them (as long as you don't put yourself in their cross hairs by doing so). If you think someone needs help, do so directly. Do not rely on the system.
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May 10, 2011 17:01
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RagnarokAngel posted:So yeah big question here. I realize it's probably been discussed in length but this threads gotten long and it's not worth making a new thread to ask so this seemed ideal. In GBS and DnD you see a lot of stuff about the prison system in America, either as a general topic or a specific new article and I totally agree with it. Here's my issue though, it feels like every thread stops at the awareness and doesnt go any further. It feels like I'm being told "Look at this. Look at it. Do you feel bad? You should.", naturally like any one with a shred of empathy I do feel bad. But I want to change it, and yet I feel like that bit of information is never supplied, just "raise awareness". There are a number of prison reform activist organisations around. One I remember Goro recommending people consider donating to is http://justdetention.org. Obviously you can't just throw money at this problem, but if you're looking for something small you can do...
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May 10, 2011 19:45
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For some reason this was the only thing that popped up high enough to be caught on the Guardian's radar this week. Weird how the media works.
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May 11, 2011 00:55
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That's totally lovely of them to do, and there's no real reason for it, but "any materials that contain staples or pictures of any level of nudity, including beachwear or underwear" isn't quite "all books except Bible". Everything on my bookshelf would be allowed in. Of course it sounds like they're lying. If it's true they're being even more restrictive and only allowing Bibles then holy drat. I read about that man who spent 28 years in solitary with no access to anything but a Bible and fuuuuuuuuuck. If I had to endure that then I'd ask for a Bible just so I could find a way to choke myself on it. Edit: Speaking of suicide in solitary, Ashley Smith's family settled the wrongful death lawsuit they had against the Canadian government. Gist of her story is that the Canadian Federal government requires mental health evaluations every 30 days for inmates kept in solitary confinement. Ashley Smith was shuffled between facilities every time the timer was about to hit the limit. So she spent over a year in solitary without an evaluation before she killed herself. Pretty disgusting - it wasn't just a single guard or warden who had it in for her but the entire system conspired to torture her to death. She was mentally ill to begin with - her ridiculously long prison sentence began when she chucked chestnuts fallen off a tree at a postal worker. She shouldn't have been in prison to begin with but they kept finding ways to keep her locked up. Admittedly this is all from memory from following the case an article at a time for years, but I'm honestly frightened about what I'll find out if I go dredging those articles up again. The entire thing pisses me off so much. BattleMaster fucked around with this message at 01:41 on May 11, 2011 |
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May 11, 2011 01:30
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BattleMaster posted:That's totally lovely of them to do, and there's no real reason for it, but "any materials that contain staples or pictures of any level of nudity, including beachwear or underwear" isn't quite "all books except Bible". Everything on my bookshelf would be allowed in. Prison Legal News is tracking dozens of jails and prisons who are blocking access to legal information another self-help material, though I think this is one of the worst. Mark Kidd fucked around with this message at 16:11 on May 12, 2011 |
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May 11, 2011 01:52
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Torka posted:There are a number of prison reform activist organisations around. One I remember Goro recommending people consider donating to is http://justdetention.org. Prison Activist Resource Center CURE Justice Policy Institute Penal Reform International The Center for Prisoner Health & Human Rights The Sentencing Project Commission on Safety & Abuse in American Prisons Critical Resistance Prison Policy Initiative Death Penalty Focus California Prison Focus Middle Ground(AZ prison reform) CAADP(AZ death penalty abolition)
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May 11, 2011 02:38
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Bibles are allowed because A) Jesus rules in the South B) Denying religion to prisoners is about the only thing that will actually be stopped by the court system. The rules may say "no staples or less than fully clothed women" but only Bibles will get through in practice. And the Bibles only get through because that's the one spot where the Prisons know they would lose the fight.
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May 11, 2011 03:55
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CannonFodder posted:The rules may say "no staples or less than fully clothed women" but only Bibles will get through in practice. And the Bibles only get through because that's the one spot where the Prisons know they would lose the fight. My understanding is that it is pretty easy for the prisons to lose the fight, the problem is more that there aren't many folks out there who are willing to fight in the first place. Censorship like this is not legal.
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May 11, 2011 04:10
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CannonFodder posted:B) Denying religion to prisoners is about the only thing that will actually be stopped by the court system. Any prison banning reading material seems like a crazy warden that's out to just punish people. They should be encouraging inmates to read.
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May 11, 2011 04:20
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OK, maybe I was too general with that statement. Denying Jesus and Christianity to prisoners will not fly in the South. Anything else can be denied for whatever BS reason comes to mind (National Security will be used to deny Korans) but when Bibles are donated to prisons they tend to be granted with the express permission of the Prison Chaplin or are donated by people who will fight hard in courts because they want to make sure that the courts do not deny Jesus.
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May 11, 2011 04:47
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Korak posted:Any prison banning reading material seems like a crazy warden that's out to just punish people. They should be encouraging inmates to read. No you see, reading is a PRIVILEGE that these criminals do not deserve! I wish I could just sit around and read all day, these inmates have it easy!
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May 11, 2011 15:26
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CannonFodder posted:OK, maybe I was too general with that statement. Denying Jesus and Christianity to prisoners will not fly in the South. Anything else can be denied for whatever BS reason comes to mind (National Security will be used to deny Korans) Nah thats been tested in court and failed afaik (Was mentioned to me by my AK lawyer buddy). Even in Guantanamo, they can have a Koran. The constitution doesn't mince its words on that point.
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May 11, 2011 20:56
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duck monster posted:Nah thats been tested in court and failed afaik (Was mentioned to me by my AK lawyer buddy). Even in Guantanamo, they can have a Koran. The constitution doesn't mince its words on that point. Because the actual wording of the Constitution is so important to the people who make the decisions about these things.
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May 11, 2011 20:58
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Are there any statistics available for sentence length that break out the racial categories more finely than black/white? This website has the black/white data, but I have to think that the disparity is being masked by counting latinos as white.
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May 11, 2011 21:31
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Elotana posted:Are there any statistics available for sentence length that break out the racial categories more finely than black/white? This website has the black/white data, but I have to think that the disparity is being masked by counting latinos as white. Check out the search tools on The Sentencing Project. Also you will sometimes get better racial breakdowns from state DOC records than DOJ reports, alternatively you can call up your state's DOC or AG and see what they'll give you (it's all public record anyway).
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May 11, 2011 23:04
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Thanks for your work Hiding from Goro. I know a former Navy prosecutor and he always described prison as a dormitory with bars which makes this thread a real depressing read. My question is, are there any organizations within the Democratic party pushing for sentencing and prison reform? I'm going to donate some cash to the organizations you listed, but I'd like to do something more if possible.
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May 13, 2011 06:42
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